(Topic ID: 288059)

JJP Can we talk about Replacement LCDs?

By happyclan

8 months ago


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There are 122 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 8 months ago

My Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (CE) is working great. But that LCD is weakAF. Washed out colors and 1080p. Cool if it's like 2004. But I want to put a 4K in there. Yes, I know the output might still be 1080p but it'd work if the 4K has upscaling...and either way, I'll have a better contrast ratio and refresh rate that whatever cutrate job is in there.

Has anyone found an aftermarket or OEM replacement? These things are coming off a line somewhere in China.

I may just find a 4K and jam it in there with a custom bracket then use the firmware to zero in the alignment.

Any thoughts out there? Can't imagine I'm first but couldn't find any good threads other than people talking replacements for defects/damage.

Thanks as always you motley bunch!

#2 8 months ago

It’s interesting because the monitor they used in the Hobbit appears to be significantly higher quality than the monitor they used in GnR (which I’m assuming is the same or very similar to the LCD used in Wonka). Somewhere along the way the LCD appears to have been a victim of cost cutting.

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#3 8 months ago

Not sure if it’s cost cutting or longevity they are after . Maybe new displays have worse resolution but better Long term use?

#4 8 months ago

Never really heard of poorer quality monitors lasting longer than higher quality ones. I know they used to use commercial grade monitors and it wouldn’t surprise me if they switched to cheaper consumer grade ones at some point.

#6 8 months ago

Loathe as I am to say it, but the stern Elvira has far better contrast and brightness on their display. The JJP GNR could look so much better. It messes with the room when you have a dirty looking display man. We are listening mod community and waiting for a resolve.

-6
#7 8 months ago

I don’t think the monitors are different “quality”

I read something about using hdmi vs vga

The hobbit is hooked up via vga so it looks better, I think you can switch GnR to be vga

This may or may not be accurate

#8 8 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

I don’t think the monitors are different “quality”
I read something about using hdmi vs vga
The hobbit is hooked up via vga so it looks better, I think you can switch GnR to be vga
This may or may not be accurate

It’s not accurate. They are using a lower quality screen now.

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

I don’t think the monitors are different “quality”
I read something about using hdmi vs vga
The hobbit is hooked up via vga so it looks better, I think you can switch GnR to be vga
This may or may not be accurate

This happened between Dialed In and Pirates. The monitors went to a lesser quality. I was told Pirates CE's were better, but I can't verify that.

I have spoken with a well known employee at JJP and this (monitor differences) was confirmed.

Settings will help. But, will never get these new monitors even close to the sharpness or black level Dialed In and prior screens had.

I have the JJPs all in a row at home. And the difference is night and day.

Brian

#10 8 months ago

I noticed it right away after playing Hobbit, you can instantly tell the difference, the clarity on the hobbit and colors are beautiful then when you play Wonka you can see it’s not as clear, more washed out colors. I would have to say it’s a different monitor. Someone with a Hobbit please post the model of your monitor so we can compare

#11 8 months ago

Would the older model work as a replacement in the newer games?

#12 8 months ago
Quoted from TonyScoots:

I noticed it right away after playing Hobbit, you can instantly tell the difference, the clarity on the hobbit and colors are beautiful then when you play Wonka you can see it’s not as clear, more washed out colors. I would have to say it’s a different monitor. Someone with a Hobbit please post the model of your monitor so we can compare

I could look at the models between POTC and Dialed In tonight when I get home.. if nobody today does..

#13 8 months ago
Quoted from Vitty:

Would the older model work as a replacement in the newer games?

I would say yes since it’s just a PC

#14 8 months ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

This happened between Dialed In and Pirates. The monitors went to a lesser quality. I was told Pirates CE's were better, but I can't verify that.
I have spoken with a well known employee at JJP and this (monitor differences) was confirmed.
Settings will help. But, will never get these new monitors even close to the sharpness or black level Dialed In and prior screens had.
I have the JJPs all in a row at home. And the difference is night and day.
Brian

Oh ok, you’re saying DI had a better monitor? Seemed pretty meh to me

#15 8 months ago

I wouldn't be terribly excited about it... But, I would pay a small upgrade fee to get the better monitor in my GNR LE (when it is eventually made). As crazy as that sounds for a $9.5k game...

Brian

#16 8 months ago

This is an easy solution for me, someone who has a Wonka, guns and roses and a dialed in.

I simply will not buy a hobbit, not that I have any interest in playing a boring game with a monitor that has great black levels anyway.

#17 8 months ago

I did a little research into the monitors used on Pirates a while ago. There were 2 different 27" LCD panels used. One was HDMI and one was DVI. The DVI model was made by 'AUO' in China and was said to have the superior picture. These are commercial LCD panels that are meant to be on for long hours and are now out of production. However, hooking up even a regular pc monitor also works. It seems to be more a matter of finding the right size panel and also one that fits the chassis/swing arm from the game.

#18 8 months ago

My GNR SE has a monitor with dvi and hdmi outputs. A DVI to HDMI cable connects from the pc (dvi) to the hdmi of the monitor. The playfield monitor connects to the hdmi on the pc.

#19 8 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Oh ok, you’re saying DI had a better monitor? Seemed pretty meh to me

I don't know if its all of the Dialed In's. But my DI and POTC are next to each other in the line up and the difference is night and day. Even on the start up screens. Dialed In's screen is rich in color. and especially noticable in the attract screen. Pirates is washed out even after I applied the settings recommended to me by the very well known Jersey Jack employee.

#20 8 months ago

when I first saw wonka, it looked so washed out to me, which seemed so off with the theme, and than when you compared it to a WoZ it was night and day. could not understand why it was so dull by comparison, thought that maybe to was get it to better match the aged color of the film, but sounds like it maybe it is the monitor.

Has anyone put a Woz Monitor in a Wonka to see if it looks better?

I once got a dmd game where it was clear the owner did a swap of the DMD from a different game, as there was some burn-in from a different title, wonder if we will see JJP owners swapping monitors from Hobbits to a a newer JJP game before selling it.

What about the later built Woz, any of those have the crappier LCDs?

#21 8 months ago

Details Matter......

#22 8 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Details Matter......

...especially for $1000 more!!!

#23 8 months ago

No setting to bring the black levels and contrast up?

#24 8 months ago
Quoted from Seamlesswall:

No setting to bring the black levels and contrast up?

I'm sure adjusting the settings can help, but if the contrast ratio is a lot worse, you're only going to be able to improve it so much.

#25 8 months ago
Quoted from Seamlesswall:

No setting to bring the black levels and contrast up?

Setting do nothing. The contrast range is puuuthetic.

#26 8 months ago

so the real question is, what's a suitable replacement? Anyone got a part number?

#27 8 months ago

okay, so snapped a pic of my WW back panel. There's a driver in the black box (the one with the controls up/down). It's connected to the panel which is part number M270HVN02.0 I *think* this is the spec sheet https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/861780/AUO/M270HVN02.0/1

Now, it's time to fish in aliexpress for a part with spec dims that isn't compete garbage.

EDIT: Update. I have a bunch of queries for samples out to various OEMs in China mainland. In short, we've been getting screwed. There are a ****ton of panels in this form factor and this AUO one is one of the garbage-tier consumer grade panels. The ones I'm seeking are digital signage with outdoor display capability.

#28 8 months ago

I love the game, but the display is maddening. like am I watching a ad on a gas station pump. I would love to see a upgrade remark suggestion in this thread. thanks for the thread BTW

#29 8 months ago
Quoted from jhoward1082:

It’s interesting because the monitor they used in the Hobbit appears to be significantly higher quality than the monitor they used in GnR (which I’m assuming is the same or very similar to the LCD used in Wonka). Somewhere along the way the LCD appears to have been a victim of cost cutting.
[quoted image][quoted image]

My Hobbit LE start-up screen looks like your GNR ( green ) and so was my RR Woz .
The picture on them , is/ was , great .
The demo GNR I played the colours looked really good .
It would be a shifty move to put a better screen in the demo , but who knows .

IMG20210217223818 (resized).jpg
#30 8 months ago
Quoted from screaminr:

My Hobbit LE start-up screen looks like your GNR ( green ) and so was my RR Woz .
The picture on them , is/ was , great .
The demo GNR I played the colours looked really good .
It would be a shifty move to put a better screen in the demo , but who knows .
[quoted image]

I think you have something else going on there with your Hobbit. None of the "lesser" screens looked green. They had a gray boot sceen. Or washed out look once the game booted. Colors weren't sharp. They look like you have the brightness turned up way too much and the contrast down. But, there are absolutely no settings you can adjust for better quality. I've adjusted the recommended JJP settings and tried way more than that. My Pirates is "acceptable" now. But certainly not as good as my DI, Hobbit, or WoZ. And, I am not just comparing this with the games in my collection. There are a ton of JJPs here both on location and in collections. This monitor trait between games is 100% across every game I've seen.

Maybe LTG could shed some light on this? As he has all the games side by side (I believe).

#31 8 months ago
Quoted from happyclan:

okay, so snapped a pic of my WW back panel. There's a driver in the black box (the one with the controls up/down). It's connected to the panel which is part number M270HVN02.0 I *think* this is the spec sheet https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/861780/AUO/M270HVN02.0/1

The DVI monitor used in POTC is M270HVN02.1

Panel Brand:AUO
Panel Model:M270HVN02.1
Panel Size:27.0 inch
Panel Type:a-Si TFT-LCD, LCM
Resolution:1920(RGB)×1080 , FHD
Pixel Format:RGB Vertical Stripe
Display Area:597.6(W)×336.15(H) mm
Bezel Opening:601.6(W)×340.15(H) mm
Outline Size:630(W)×368.2(H)×11(D) mm
Surface:Antiglare, Hard coating (3H)
Brightness:300 cd/m2 (Typ.)
Contrast Ratio:3000 (Typ.) (TM)
Viewing Angle:89/89/89/89 (Typ.)(CR=10)
Display Mode:AMVA, Normally Black, Transmissive
Best View on:Symmetry
Response Time:7/5 (Typ.)(Tr/Td)
Display Colors:16.7M 72%(CIE1931)
Lamp Type:15S4PWLED, 30K hours, Without Driver
Frequency:60Hz
Touch Screen:Without
Panel Weight: 2.18Kgs (Typ.)
Application Desktop Monitor,Signal Interface: LVDS (2 ch, 8-bit), 30 pins, Connector
Input Voltage:5.0V (Typ.)
Environment:Operating Temp.: 0 ~ 50 °C ;Storage Temp.: -20 ~ 60 °C

Quoted from happyclan:

There are a ****ton of panels in this form factor and this AUO one is one of the garbage-tier consumer grade panels.

Genuinely curious - If these AUO displays are garbage, then why do they seem to be 2-3x as expensive as most small LCD TVs?

#32 8 months ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

The DVI monitor used in POTC is M270HVN02.1
Panel Brand:AUO
Panel Model:M270HVN02.1
Panel Size:27.0 inch
Panel Type:a-Si TFT-LCD, LCM
Resolution:1920(RGB)×1080 , FHD
Pixel Format:RGB Vertical Stripe
Display Area:597.6(W)×336.15(H) mm
Bezel Opening:601.6(W)×340.15(H) mm
Outline Size:630(W)×368.2(H)×11(D) mm
Surface:Antiglare, Hard coating (3H)
Brightness:300 cd/m2 (Typ.)
Contrast Ratio:3000 (Typ.) (TM)
Viewing Angle:89/89/89/89 (Typ.)(CR=10)
Display Mode:AMVA, Normally Black, Transmissive
Best View on:Symmetry
Response Time:7/5 (Typ.)(Tr/Td)
Display Colors:16.7M 72%(CIE1931)
Lamp Type:15S4PWLED, 30K hours, Without Driver
Frequency:60Hz
Touch Screen:Without
Panel Weight: 2.18Kgs (Typ.)
Application Desktop Monitor,Signal Interface: LVDS (2 ch, 8-bit), 30 pins, Connector
Input Voltage:5.0V (Typ.)
Environment:Operating Temp.: 0 ~ 50 °C ;Storage Temp.: -20 ~ 60 °C

Genuinely curious - If these AUO displays are garbage, then why do they seem to be 2-3x as expensive as most small LCD TVs?

Well, you're on the higher version of this panel.

My WW: M270HVN02.0
Your POTC: M270HVN02.1

Brightness and contrast all aside, I can't get over that the displays are 1080p.

#33 8 months ago

Displays were changed to the cheaper version sometime in the potc run. My potcle monitor is the good one that looks excellent compared to ones used after. Also the newer cheaper monitors need ajusted as the brightness and contrast are set up to almost 100 percent from the factory ....which make it look very washed out.

#34 8 months ago

does the display come with the controller; from the Pdf looks like you need to add the HDMI/DVI to LVDS.

Spooky also use a low quality monitor and upgrading the monitor on TNA was a no brainier.

#35 8 months ago
Quoted from happyclan:

Well, you're on the higher version of this panel.
My WW: M270HVN02.0
Your POTC: M270HVN02.1
Brightness and contrast all aside, I can't get over that the displays are 1080p.

Because you aren’t going to get 4K resolution or graphics out of the onboard video on the motherboard and they aren’t going to put a $600 gpu in each game which are now impossible to get. 4K gaming is still very expensive in the pc world and you’re not going to see the difference on the types of animations on pinball machines anyway.

Also the smallest digital signage platform in 4K is 40” because of pixel density.

#36 8 months ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Displays were changed to the cheaper version sometime in the potc run. My potcle monitor is the good one that looks excellent compared to ones used after.

So, what model display panel is in your machine? What connection inputs does it have?

#37 8 months ago
Quoted from Drenden:

Because you aren’t going to get 4K resolution or graphics out of the onboard video on the motherboard and they aren’t going to put a $600 gpu in each game which are now impossible to get. 4K gaming is still very expensive in the pc world and you’re not going to see the difference on the types of animations on pinball machines anyway.
Also the smallest digital signage platform in 4K is 40” because of pixel density.

I didn't understand the comment this was replying to. Is there an expectation that pinball displays should be 4k? This makes no sense due to the size of the display, and how far away you are, and the fact that nobody spends much time looking at it.

Now the P3 games - I do think they would benefit from the playfield display being 4K. I'd definitely upgrade if they provided one. Even better, an OLED display! (even at 1080p that would be incredible) For 4k even that display is quite small

#38 8 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I didn't understand the comment this was replying to. Is there an expectation that pinball displays should be 4k? This makes no sense due to the size of the display, and how far away you are, and the fact that nobody spends much time looking at it.
Now the P3 games - I do think they would benefit from the playfield display being 4K. I'd definitely upgrade if they provided one. Even better, an OLED display! (even at 1080p that would be incredible) For 4k even that display is quite small

Exactly. That was my point. The person I replied to said he can’t get over the fact they are only 1080.

#39 8 months ago
Quoted from Drenden:

Because you aren’t going to get 4K resolution or graphics out of the onboard video on the motherboard and they aren’t going to put a $600 gpu in each game which are now impossible to get. 4K gaming is still very expensive in the pc world and you’re not going to see the difference on the types of animations on pinball machines anyway.
Also the smallest digital signage platform in 4K is 40” because of pixel density.

A 4k display on a pinball machine is silly. The action is on the playfield not and its not like one is going to stare at the back glass while playing. That said, contrast ratio and a quality display does make a world of difference (the boot-up screens clearly show that), resolution does not. OLED would look killer but would be an ill suited application for a pinball machine in the wild (burn in and longevity). I still think LCD's are crap for home television but they do have their place, this would be one of them.

#40 8 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I didn't understand the comment this was replying to. Is there an expectation that pinball displays should be 4k? This makes no sense due to the size of the display, and how far away you are, and the fact that nobody spends much time looking at it.
Now the P3 games - I do think they would benefit from the playfield display being 4K. I'd definitely upgrade if they provided one. Even better, an OLED display! (even at 1080p that would be incredible) For 4k even that display is quite small

On P3 I would care a lot more about the latency and viewing angle of the display than I would the resolution. This is a big issue with TVs / monitors for gaming even with PS4/5, XBOX, etc.

#41 8 months ago

Maybe I took this sideways with 4K. I want extremely high DPI. An iPad 3 has retina display and never approached 4K rendering but looked nice. Even the CGC LCD is muuuuch higher DPI and has a black that is well...like the name implies...black. It's sad my retro remake's display is kicking the Wonka in his gobstoppers.

I'm looking at the mounting hardware. I need to pull out my LCD and look to see whether I can attached a rear mount display instead of the 4 screw side mount. I might have to drill into the rear of the metal chassis holding the LCD panel but small price if I can a better brand in there (like LG).

Quoted from bobukcat:

On P3 I would care a lot more about the latency and viewing angle of the display than I would the resolution. This is a big issue with TVs / monitors for gaming even with PS4/5, XBOX, etc.

Totally agree!! Viewing angle is another consideration. The ones in there today are around 89 degrees. So basically a battleship periscope.

I'm loving the JJP playfield and "feel" but the sounds, art, and display are not my bag.

#42 8 months ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

So, what model display panel is in your machine? What connection inputs does it have?

I will c if I can get to it today and check...

#43 7 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

On P3 I would care a lot more about the latency and viewing angle of the display than I would the resolution. This is a big issue with TVs / monitors for gaming even with PS4/5, XBOX, etc.

That’s much more of an issue with virtual pins - since P3s have a real ball and the display is used as the (mostly static) Playfield there’s almost nothing moving quickly enough to cause a latency issue

Just checked, and my POTC has the older, better display. So that’s a relief!

#44 7 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

On P3 I would care a lot more about the latency and viewing angle of the display than I would the resolution. This is a big issue with TVs / monitors for gaming even with PS4/5, XBOX, etc.

Quoted from happyclan:

Totally agree!! Viewing angle is another consideration. The ones in there today are around 89 degrees. So basically a battleship periscope.

I read this a bunch of times and couldn't tell if you were talking about the P3 displays or not. Just to avoid any confusion, every production P3 has shipped with very high quality playfield displays, with nearly 180-degree viewing angles. Our backbox displays look even better (because they're not under a thick protective sheet of polycarbonate)... super vibrant and wide viewing angles. I think we use the same size (27") as the ones being questioned in this thread. If true, feel free to message me about sourcing replacements.

See pics of the early production machine at my house. Ignore the whitewood / prototype Heist playfield.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com
PXL_20210221_172015775 (resized).jpgPXL_20210221_172036011 (resized).jpgPXL_20210221_172048777 (resized).jpgPXL_20210221_172107036 (resized).jpg

#46 7 months ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

I read this a bunch of times and couldn't tell if you were talking about the P3 displays or not. Just to avoid any confusion, every production P3 has shipped with very high quality playfield displays, with nearly 180-degree viewing angles. Our backbox displays look even better (because they're not under a thick protective sheet of polycarbonate)... super vibrant and wide viewing angles. I think we use the same size (27") as the ones being questioned in this thread. If true, feel free to message me about sourcing replacements.
See pics of the early production machine at my house. Ignore the whitewood / prototype Heist playfield.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I can certainly confirm the backbox displays on the P3 are INCREDIBLE looking. super vibrant! The playfield itself is a little more.. I don't know.. dim? I guess? Because it is under the polycarbonate Gerry mentioned. There is no issue whatsoever with the viewing angle on either.

#47 7 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Just checked, and my POTC has the older, better display. So that’s a relief!

What model LCD panel do you have and what inputs does it have? You're the 3rd person to chime in saying that they have 'the good one' with no specifics. I'm curious what other panel was used for POTC.

#48 7 months ago
Quoted from happyclan:

Maybe I took this sideways with 4K. I want extremely high DPI. An iPad 3 has retina display and never approached 4K rendering but looked nice. Even the CGC LCD is muuuuch higher DPI and has a black that is well...like the name implies...black. It's sad my retro remake's display is kicking the Wonka in his gobstoppers.

Yes, dot pitch is the thing that really will make a difference. Chasing 4k is a waste of time on a 27" screen.

#49 7 months ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

What model LCD panel do you have and what inputs does it have? You're the 3rd person to chime in saying that they have 'the good one' with no specifics. I'm curious what other panel was used for POTC.

I'll take a look when I can get over to the machine

#50 7 months ago

Night and day difference. My WoZ looks as good as my Dialed In. My Hobbit looked equally good. All the Wonka's and GNR's I've seen look just like my Pirates.

20210221_180342 (resized).jpg20210221_180454 (resized).jpg20210221_180456 (resized).jpg20210221_180502 (resized).jpg
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