(Topic ID: 239040)

JJP TPF 2019 seminar...what a miss :(

By PanzerFreak

5 years ago


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    “How was JJP's 2019 TPF Seminar?”

    • Great 14 votes
      11%
    • Terrible 114 votes
      89%

    (128 votes)

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    There are 203 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
    #1 5 years ago

    Tonight like many of you I watched JJP's Texas Pinball seminar and was disappointed. I watched it live with friends who are also JJP pin owners and we honestly couldn't help but to laugh and cringe at parts of the presentation. This wasn't a presentation, it was mostly a mess with a lack of showmanship and came across as having little to no preparation.

    The entire presentation felt like something from 2012 when WOZ was first presented. It felt played out, amateur, and not from a company that is producing some of the most loaded and well coded pinball machines ever made. This didn't seem like the same company that came to Expo 2017 and hammered every manufacturer with a top notch Pirates reveal / presentation.

    Also, stop please JJP with ruining the collectibltiy of your games with multiple "limited" and special editions. It's pissed a lot of your most loyal customers off. Make a reasonable number of LE's (not 1000) and unlimited standards...that's it!

    The videos below show that JJP is capable of showmanship when it comes to advertising their games. These two videos embody what JJP has become. What was presented tonight wasn't anything like this, the company that presented at Expo 2017, and the company that I've proudly purchased their 4 games from.

    Dialed In promo video

    Hobbit promo video

    14
    #2 5 years ago

    Naa.... I like all things JJP. Woz YBR is a placeholder until the next game hits the line, and they will sell every single one. I’m really not worried about my Ruby Reds value - if anything it will go up.

    #3 5 years ago

    To be fair, this wasn't a new machine reveal, just a new flavor placeholder. I'll reserve judgement until the Wonka reveal which I'm expecting will be at least par with the Pirates reveal.

    #4 5 years ago
    Quoted from mountaingamer:

    Naa.... I like all things JJP. Woz YBR is a placeholder until the next game hits the line, and they will sell every single one. I’m really not worried about my Ruby Reds value - if anything it will go up.

    One of the big reasons why ECLE and Ruby Reds will go up in resale value is because of the extremely high price of new WOZ's.

    It just sucks to see JJP calling this latest edition a "Limited Edition" when a "Limited Edition" was already sold over 5 years ago. Putting the clear coated wood apron into the YBR edition also comes across like a slap in the face to LE owners.

    I love JJP pins and what they are doing. Just disappointed with what and how everything was presented tonight.

    -72
    #5 5 years ago

    The only pin JJP has turned out is Pirates. Dialed In is the horrible and overrated. Worst Pin Lawlor has ever made. I win either way if JJP does GNR. If they make an amazing pin, it will be my first NIB. If they make is shitty like WOZ or DI, then my Data East GNR will keep jumping up in value which doesn’t really matter cuz I’m never selling it. Leaving on a positive note though, just glad JJP is successful because more pins is never a bad thing

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    To be fair, this wasn't a new machine reveal, just a new flavor placeholder. I'll reserve judgement until the Wonka reveal which I'm expecting will be at least par with the Pirates reveal.

    Yeah I understand that. Even as a placeholder presentation though it should have been way better. It was just all over the place, unorganized and had a "eh who cares" vibe it. Besides Jack no one from the panel really seemed excited to speak.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Yeah I understand that. Even as a placeholder presentation though it should have been way better. It was just all over the place, unorganized and had a "eh who cares" vibe it. Besides Jack no one from the panel really seemed excited to speak.

    INCLUDING Jack no one seemed excited to speak. The body language of everyone up there was not telegraphing excitement. It will be substantially different at the Wonka reveal.

    This kind of felt like a weird cousin to the Dutch Pinball BoP 3.0 reveal.

    41
    #8 5 years ago

    You try stretching "we made a yellow one" into an hour presentation and see how you fare.

    22
    #9 5 years ago

    $11,500 dollars for a yellow brick road WOZ. Just sit and think about that for a few minutes and let that sink in. What a f'ing joke!

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    $11,500 dollars for a yellow brick road WOZ. Just sit and think about that for a few minutes and let that sink in. What a f'ing joke!

    Wait till you see the Wonka and Toy story Prices.

    #11 5 years ago

    Can we see the seminar somwhere online?

    #12 5 years ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    Wait till you see the Wonka and Toy story Prices.

    Those will be two great themes but it'll be two games I'll never own at those kind of prices.

    #13 5 years ago
    Quoted from pascal-pinball:

    Can we see the seminar somwhere online?

    Click on "Videos 2" at the top here:

    https://www.twitch.tv/texas_pinball_seminar/

    #14 5 years ago

    What's the point of this being rehashed from the YBR thread, Wonka thread, wherever?

    We all heard well in advance this was going to be a stop gap in-between their next game. The real question is why didn't they spend ten minutes on this, and then 50 unveiling their next game?

    Disappointing....sure, but this business offers no promises, and I ironically appreciate the awkward presentations, as they often lack pretense and false salesmanship of so many other entertainment industries. I'll take this over e3 presentations from Microsoft, Sony or anything having to do with Hollywood award shows.

    (Tangentially, why was Steve Ritchie even hosting a panel? To not announce anything at all? I fell asleep halfway through, and don't really have much of a desire to rewatch it. Now that was entirely aimless and directionless, sadly.)

    Ideally this didn't need to be a full presentation, but it was, and in a few weeks, most of this will hopefully be long forgotten.

    Either way, we shall see....

    #15 5 years ago

    I think you're overreacting PF. I'm an original ECLE owner and don't feel this is a slap in the face. If they don't make money they go under. They have investors to satisfy so this is priority #1 for them as a company.

    Good luck to them moving this game and looking forward to what's coming next.

    -55
    #16 5 years ago

    The person who created this thread should have their head examined seriously... who in the HELL do you think you are?

    Are you special or something?

    While you're at it why don't you call some other companies and tell them to stop making so many of their products... heck call Stern and ask them not to make 10,000 ACDC games or 5 million Ghostbusters.

    Wizard of Oz is probably the single most well known movie in HISTORY! If Jersey Jack makes another 200 or 400 that will still be thousands less than Adams Family and the value of that game hasn't changed.

    Who buys a pinball thinking the value is going to GO UP after I open the box? Is there even one person? Seriously. You buy the game because you want it, and Jersey Jack has every single right to make another 5 new editions if they want.

    Lastly in case you can't listen, or read, or even have a brain, he announced the game will cost $11,500 dollars. I'm not sure what Wizard version you have but you didn't pay no 11,500 bucks. So if anything JJP announcing the game will cost a few thousand dollars MORE than the last version should increase the VALUE not DE-VALUE your game! DUH!

    Then you bring up the news conference or reveal... give me a break. Jack was having some fun, and its NOT a new game its just another version of something they've already done. Maybe Jack should apologize to you for not having the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders there... give me a break!

    You post was totally ridiculous!

    I think you're taking PINBALL way to freaking serious!

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    Then you bring up the news conference or reveal... give me a break. Jack was having some fun, and its NOT a new game its just another version of something they've already done. Maybe Jack should apologize to you for not having the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders there... give me a break!

    I personally don’t really care about another WoZ model being released, but I agree that this presentation was a mess. It was amateurish and almost like they went into it without a plan. The others on the panel seemed surprised when Jack passed them the mic, and no one really had anything to say. Then there was JP’s video that played without sound, Jack constantly getting distracted by people he knew in the room... it was hard to watch.

    My theory is that they planned to reveal Wonka but something stopped them from doing so, leaving them to make a side note into the whole presentation. Not an easy task.

    51
    #18 5 years ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    I think you're taking PINBALL way to freaking serious!

    Says the guy with the 6 paragraph post lol

    30
    #19 5 years ago

    I love JJP, but that presentation was unprepared, unprofessional, unenthusiastic and unentertaining. It was painful to watch and I cringed when I heard $11,500. Come one JJP, you make such great pins, you are capable of so much more. Raising prices and removing features is not the way to grow your company. Please don’t make $11,500 the new JJP LE price, you will lose so many potential customers.

    #20 5 years ago

    I think they knew that everyone wanted to see a new game. It's hard to get up on stage and know you're about to disappoint.

    Good business decision to get the last bit of cash out of the license. Bad business decision to try to hype it at TPF when everyone wanted to see a new game.

    #21 5 years ago

    The point of this topic is to highlight what an absolute mess this presentation was. Complete lack of preparation or even care - it was a terrible representation of the value this company is trying to bring to the consumer. Complete F performance

    How can anyone even try to defend this car wreck? To say it's preferred over E3 presentations? To say it's a holdover sure but that doesn't mean you can just mail it in and assume dumb pinball owners will buy this overpriced machine

    How can this be preferred over anything? Well maybe that Steve Ritchie panel....zzzzzzzz

    #23 5 years ago

    Doubt ECLE or RR will go up in value unless they have a 2.0 light board system in them.
    When vaults come out from Stern, you don’t see the originals shootout in price.

    Maybe Pirates will be a true LE. Unless the Jack Sparrow edition comes out later.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Doubt ECLE or RR will go up in value unless they have a 2.0 light board system in them.
    When vaults come out from Stern, you don’t see the originals shootout in price.
    Maybe Pirates will be a true LE. Unless the Jack Sparrow edition comes out later.

    ECLE and RR will not go up due to this game's price. No one is taking this seriously besides the same suckers that would buy yellow WOZ would also pay more for an ECLE and RR b/c of yellow WOZ ; )

    #25 5 years ago

    At least I saved myself a twenty hour plane flight.

    Quoted from davisjl1979:

    It's hard to get up on stage and know you're about to disappoint.

    #26 5 years ago

    I'd be just like that if I co founded Microsoft lol

    #27 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinsanity:

    At least I saved myself a twenty hour plane flight.

    Touché

    #28 5 years ago

    It was so bizarre. I felt bad for everyone involved in that seminar, including audience. There was palpable disappointment in the air. I had to apologize to the guys I brought with me for wasting time we could have spent on the show floor. I now wish there was an agenda for these things, even high level. I never would have attended if it had read: 1) Revealing a new color of game that’s been in production for 6-7 years 2) How the graphics were made on said game, that’s been explained before.

    The one place Stern has ‘innovated’ beyond JJP is in the marketing department, that’s pretty clear. And yeah, if 11,500 is the new baseline for LE, ugh.

    First world problems and all, but the Q score for JJP doesn’t go up from this I think. I’m glad they are doing what they are doing, because competition is good, and they all need to be pushed. And really, its one seminar, at one event. Everyone will forget about this quick if they stick the landing with the WIWO reveal at MGC.

    #29 5 years ago

    I thought a toy story pin was going to be next.

    Just a question but what site did the rumors of a wonka pin come from?

    12
    #30 5 years ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    The person who created this thread should have their head examined seriously... who in the HELL do you think you are?
    Are you special or something?
    While you're at it why don't you call some other companies and tell them to stop making so many of their products... heck call Stern and ask them not to make 10,000 ACDC games or 5 million Ghostbusters.
    Wizard of Oz is probably the single most well known movie in HISTORY! If Jersey Jack makes another 200 or 400 that will still be thousands less than Adams Family and the value of that game hasn't changed.
    Who buys a pinball thinking the value is going to GO UP after I open the box? Is there even one person? Seriously. You buy the game because you want it, and Jersey Jack has every single right to make another 5 new editions if they want.
    Lastly in case you can't listen, or read, or even have a brain, he announced the game will cost $11,500 dollars. I'm not sure what Wizard version you have but you didn't pay no 11,500 bucks. So if anything JJP announcing the game will cost a few thousand dollars MORE than the last version should increase the VALUE not DE-VALUE your game! DUH!
    Then you bring up the news conference or reveal... give me a break. Jack was having some fun, and its NOT a new game its just another version of something they've already done. Maybe Jack should apologize to you for not having the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders there... give me a break!
    You post was totally ridiculous!
    I think you're taking PINBALL way to freaking serious!

    I'm just giving my opinion as a JJP fan and want nothing more then to see them succeed. The crazy high LE counts, and multiple "limited" editions is not something most people in the pinball community are a fan of. The YBR should have been referred to as a special edition as the limited edition JJP advertised was made and sold out 7 years ago.

    There are a few things JJP could have done to make a reveal of an $11,500 WOZ better. First, don't refer to it as a limited edition as theres already one out there, second announcing new code for all WOZ's would have drum up support and excitement, don't strip out a key mechanical feature, create and show an advertisement video like the ones for Hobbit and Dialed.

    #31 5 years ago
    Quoted from jarozi:

    It was so bizarre. I felt bad for everyone involved in that seminar, including audience. There was palpable disappointment in the air. I had to apologize to the guys I brought with me for wasting time we could have spent on the show floor. I now wish there was an agenda for these things, even high level. I never would have attended if it had read: 1) Revealing a new color of game that’s been in production for 6-7 years 2) How the graphics were made on said game, that’s been explained before. 3) Grumpy JJP designer to explain some Pirates stuff at you.
    The one place Stern has ‘innovated’ beyond JJP is in the marketing department, that’s pretty clear. And yeah, if 11,500 is the new baseline for LE, ugh.
    First world problems and all, but the Q score for JJP doesn’t go up from this I think. I’m glad they are doing what they are doing, because competition is good, and they all need to be pushed. And really, its one seminar, at one event. Everyone will forget about this quick if they stick the landing with the WIWO reveal at MGC.

    You really felt the need to apologize to your buddies?
    I feel like “hey this is lame let’s walk 50 feet back into the hall we are going to spend 3 days in and have already seen everything in” probably would have sufficed.

    #32 5 years ago

    IMO this was testing the pricing threshold. They need to keep a line moving and people busy, so “let’s do another run of WOZ” until WW is ready to go. At this point the pinball companies keep increasing prices and we keep buying.

    Anyone that doesn’t see the 11,500 price tag and “limited run of 200, or maybe more if there’s demand”, as complete price gouging, then something is wrong.

    I’m guilty of buying one title after another. Now taking a step back and watching the pricing going through the roof and little to no innovation,has made me realize that it’s time to take a break from being ripped off and let the dust settle.

    That seminar was lame. Sad that some can’t see how bad this makes the industry/hobby look.

    #33 5 years ago

    So no Wonka huh?

    16
    #34 5 years ago

    I want the banana version , I want less toys , I want to pay more for it , said no one .

    #35 5 years ago

    I will not buy any jjp pinball for this Price.
    What's up with jjp no better ideas except to re-wrap old themes at overpriced prices
    I prefer to buy two Stern Pro with mega themed pinball

    #36 5 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You really felt the need to apologize to your buddies?
    I feel like “hey this is lame let’s walk 50 feet back into the hall we are going to spend 3 days in and have already seen everything in” probably would have sufficed.

    Yeah, I said ‘sorry about that guys’ on our walk back.

    #37 5 years ago

    I talked to Jack later in the evening and he said he would not be at MGC because he'll be in France. So for people expecting a big WW announcement at MGC I don't think it's going to happen.

    19
    #38 5 years ago

    "A dark night for" ... JJP.

    What goes around, comes around.

    #39 5 years ago

    Why didn’t anyone ask why if pirates is sold out and distros are clamoring for more that we have a yellow woz for 2 racks more in our face?

    Instead a bunch of softball ?’s about the next game which you know he won’t answer.

    Disappointed in the audience more than anything...

    #40 5 years ago
    Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

    Why didn’t anyone ask why if pirates is sold out and distros are clamoring for more that we have a yellow woz for 2 racks more in our face?
    Instead a bunch of softball ?’s about the next game which you know he won’t answer.
    Disappointed in the audience more than anything...

    JJP isn't going to come out and say "Pirates cost too much to build so we will be back in a year or two with a new limited edition that costs $11,500+". I think Pirates as we know today, the SE, LE, and CE are done. However, I wouldn't be surprised come in a year or two if JJP announces a new "limited" POTC model that comes with a huge price tag of $11,500+. Jack even said "like they say in show business, keep the audience wanting more". He said also said they need to move onto the next games.

    One of the more interesting comments of the seminar was Jack saying that "I said we would reveal two games this year and this isn't one of them". What will be interesting is if both of those games continue with the super high price model or if we see JJP shift away from $9k - $12k games (unless it's an older model being product back for a limited time) and offer slightly stripped down games in order to reduce cost.

    #41 5 years ago

    I watched the stream because I wanted to see what the fuss is about... It was a bit amateur-ish and having your game covered with garbage bags was a horrible visual. Not a fan of the yellow but it's ok I guess.

    I think they really undersold the cabinet, new light boards, all the electronic changes (ie optos, board changes etc) and the increased reliability changes. This was likely what added to the cost and sadly they just glazed over the most important things...

    #42 5 years ago
    Quoted from RandomTask:

    I watched the stream because I wanted to see what the fuss is about... It was a bit amateur-ish and having your game covered with garbage bags was a horrible visual. Not a fan of the yellow but it's ok I guess.
    I think they really undersold the cabinet, new light boards, all the electronic changes (ie optos, board changes etc) and the increased reliability changes. This was likely what added to the cost and sadly they just glazed over the most important things...

    Yeah, it just could have been presented better. The first half hour or so of the presentation should have been focused and it was anything but that. Talking to people around the room and making random comments during a reveal of a $11,500+ game was a bit strange. I understand wanting to talk to customers but save that for the Q&A and present a strong prepared presentation for the first half hour that is loaded with detail about the game.

    #43 5 years ago
    Quoted from billyboy:

    IMO this was testing the pricing threshold. They need to keep a line moving and people busy, so “let’s do another run of WOZ” until WW is ready to go. At this point the pinball companies keep increasing prices and we keep buying.
    Anyone that doesn’t see the 11,500 price tag and “limited run of 200, or maybe more if there’s demand”, as complete price gouging, then something is wrong.
    I’m guilty of buying one title after another. Now taking a step back and watching the pricing going through the roof and little to no innovation,has made me realize that it’s time to take a break from being ripped off and let the dust settle.
    That seminar was lame. Sad that some can’t see how bad this makes the industry/hobby look.

    But if they can do 10 machines a day, this only supports the business for 20 business days.

    #44 5 years ago
    Quoted from lancestorm:

    But if they can do 10 machines a day, this only supports the business for 20 business days.

    I agree.

    This was just "Best bang for the buck: Profit style"

    WOZ is their only machine still selling. There are enough people out there that'll pay for it. I can't see how anyone in their right mind would, but JJP has bean counters that say otherwise.

    "Remove mechs to make them more reliable" means these are going into WOZ collectors' homes. They don't know a damn thing about troubleshooting and we never want our tech support to get a call from them because they play it *maybe* 30 times a year anyway. At least we now know what mechs on WOZ crap out most often.

    Why even mention Pirates if it's sold out at 200 pins or whatever it was? Why bring YBR anyway? These are just to "try be relevant and look busy". Pure dog & pony show.

    Not sure I could get a JJP pin. I feel like they could close tomorrow sometimes.

    #45 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    JJP isn't going to come out and say "Pirates cost too much to build so we will be back in a year or two with a new limited edition that costs $11,500+

    That’s my point...we have a bunch of threads & pocasts being critical, yet no one had the balls to say it to his face while Jack was walking around stroking the audience for an hour...

    And big mouth mr. tough love kaneda was even in that room and didn’t make a peep...pathetic

    #46 5 years ago
    Quoted from thewool:

    If they don't make money they go under.

    If they need to charge $11,500 to make money they go under

    #47 5 years ago

    What exactly is JJPs sustainable growth plan?

    The “high end” collectors niche cant trust anything is limited while pricing out most everyone else including route ops.

    -33
    #48 5 years ago

    Aside from this entire thread being pathetic saying things like 'I will not buy a WOZ for 11,500 ... yeah I think a lot of people said they wouldn't pay $25k for a Beatles and look what happened. I think JJ was going for a high end collector market which is exactly WHY they said they won't sell the games directly.

    They will end up in places that sell rugs for a million bucks, and the game will sell and sell fast.

    Talk to Pinball Company they claim they sell mostly to people with a lot of money. These things will last about as fast as they can make them. As I said WOZ is one of the most iconic movies in history.

    For all the haters who can't seem to use common sense to put 2 + 2 = 4 together... you need to stop bitching and figure out the pattern here because I don't think it will ever change.

    Wizard of Oz had several different versions RIGHT? Hobbit had several different versions correct?

    Here is what is GOING to happen as I already predicted... I predicted that all the speculation on Pirates was FALSE and I was right. You heard jack say he's still got the license and MIGHT make more in the future. You also heard Jack say that never say never, and he also said build up the demand.

    He ordered X amount of parts for Pirates, lets say 1000, he made and sold all those games. He's changing the line for Wonka so while prepping you push out several WOZ machines between the change over. Six months from now I predict you'll see another line change for Guns N Roses and between there he'll announce a Black Pearl Edition of Pirates. Demand will be there pre-selling every game they make... once that batch is done Guns and Roses will be announced.

    There is nothing new here this is what JJ does. JJ is a business and is entitled to do it however he wants.

    As for the reveal being a mess totally disagree... he's just showing you a new version of a game that has been around for multiple years so if he wants to hand out hats, take some questions who gives a crap.

    Lastly someone said why talk about Pirates... HELLO that is all everyone was speculating about. Did JJ lose money on Pirates (NO), did he lose the license (NO) will they ever make more (YES) read what I said above.

    There is nothing new here and this whole thread is overblown!

    #49 5 years ago
    Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

    That’s my point...we have a bunch of threads & pocasts being critical, yet no one had the balls to say it to his face while Jack was walking around stroking the audience for an hour...
    And big mouth mr. tough love kaneda was even in that room and didn’t make a peep...pathetic

    Im pretty sure that not many people would be afraid to tell Jack to his face that his prices are too high, but why would they? JJP prices are indeed way too f*cking high and that yellow dick road WOZ game is a total joke!

    -57
    #50 5 years ago

    BTW can someone give me another 25 down votes... I want to get to 50. Because giving out down votes makes people feel so sad, depressed, and well just downright hurt. When you see those down votes it really just makes you want to forgot your own opinion and just stop talking before you get run out of dodge with a pitchfork. Does anyone of the JJ haters really think a downvote hurts someones feelings? But maybe if I get 25 more from the JJ haters I might jump off a cliff because I don't think I can handle the pressure of having 50 down votes. Just the thought is sending shivers up my spine! NOT! LOL

    Hey seriously though pinball is suppose to be FUN, its no different than collecting hot wheels, or classic anything. Pinball is suppose to make you happy taking this so serious that it makes you upset is just something that shouldn't happen.

    Just be happy for those who want the JJP WOZ edition. If you don't like all the yellow share your opinion but to say someone shouldn't make the game because of the value of your game that is ridiculous totally.

    To be critical of a guy having fun, take questions, and just showing some people his new version of an old classic that in and of itself is going off the rails.

    Its just a pinball game!

    Next thing we'll hear is Jack's RED hats are tied to Trump's hats or something. Its just fun people. Jack looked like he had a lot of fun showing you the game.

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