I think the lesson learned here was that this presentation was done so they’d have a presence at TPF, but the WOZ special edition is not for people who are going to sit at a seminar, especially since they will only be making 200 or whatever. If they do any further marketing, it’ll be one of those killer commercials they did for DI and TH. Those have lasting power. This will be forgotten in a few days

The reason you get downvotes is probably because you try and ram your opinion down people's throats.

LOL, made me laugh Who-Dey

Let me see if I got this straight... you're saying this for a straight face right?

People on this very sight are asking for 30k for an unboxed pinball and JJ is asking to much. Stern says they want 25k for a Diamond when its basically the same game as the Gold "Beatles". I like Beatles but its not even half the game of WOZ and Beatles is worth 25k and WOZ is over charging at 11,500. Some people on the site are asking for 20k for Aliens, or 18k for Cactus Canyon even though CG is making it brand new to release soon and WOZ a brand new game is over priced.

Saying that is ridiculous given the fact what we've seen around here over the last month alone.

Will I EVER pay 20k for Aliens HELL TO THE FUCKING NO! I'm not paying 20K for a PINBALL GAME if my life depended on it. For 20k you can buy a new car... so I'm with you 110%. But its not overpriced when there are PEOPLE LINED UP TO PAY IT!

Hopefully you can see the point.

NO I think its because Im allowed to have my own opinion and you don't like someone stated facts. Some people are just born to be critical no matter how hard someone tries to do something fun or good. Sad really! Oh and this ENTIRE thread isn't ramming an opinion down someones throats... boy you need a reality check serious. This whole thread is ramming an opinion down someones throat.

Get real dude!

$11,500 is too high for any game in my opinion and yes a Stern Beatles gold for 25K is a joke as well. These prices are actually insulting if you ask me but hey if people are stupid enough to pay it i guess that i cant blame them for charging that much.

This 'reveal' didn't even require a seminar. JJP didn't even need to show up at TPF for this. Waste of time.

I don't mind different opinions at all.

Just don't care for the manner they are put across.

But, it's just pinball, so time to move on.

The only point I see is all these games are priced for fools only

The STeve ritchie seminar was the snoozer of the show. Why did he even fly there? Talk about a waste of time and resources.

I think it's more due to your "tone". I agree with a decent amount of what you're saying here, it's just the matter of fact attitude, while being somewhat hostile in how you're presenting that opinion, and directing it towards the OP specifically. You're telling people to chill out, not take this seriously, and doing so with multiple several length paragraphs featuring all caps words and multiple exclamation points. It's abrasive more than conversational, and the content of your thoughts, which have value, is getting lost here.

That said, go have fun out there. I assume you're at the show today, and if you are, I hope there's more fun to be had than what we've seen so far.

I don't get the pinball industry, not at all.
I've only been in the hobby for 5 years but the amount of badly done seminars and presentations is astonishing.

Not knowing anything about the S Richie seminar from yesterday, but if you don't have enough to talk about new product wise, Steve, you have a whole room of fans in front of you that wants to hear cool stories and anecdotes. It could have been a blast for everyone and people would have begged for you to go past the one hour mark.

All this is about having fun, we are meeting to celebrate friendships and toys at those conventions. The "rock stars" being unenthusiastic is a mood killer.

Goes for the JJP presentation as much as for SR, it seems.

Because people who love this hobby enjoy meeting the designers and coders of these games. Most of us have heard Steves story but it was a chance for people to ask him questions and talk to him. Steve Ritchie is a legend in this hobby and i think its pretty cool that he takes the time to go to these events and talk to people.

Today is a new day! Let’s go day 2 and Awards Show!

One thing for sure; Pinside provides these Pinball companies with a trove of customer data that they normally would need an army of marketing professionals, surveys and social media data and analytics to obtain.

Nobody knows tone over a message board NO ONE! But lets be at least honest for a second, this isn’t a press conference about de-nuking North Korea. This is a FUN little reveal of a new version of a game made back in like 2012. So someone can say to me ‘hey I don’t like your tone’ well I don’t like people who soak the fun out of some little event where Jack gave out some HATS! MY GOD what has the World come to...

Maybe next time he should hire 100 actors dressed like the flying Monkeys, and have at least 5 confetti machines, and a jackpot one lucky winner gets a FREE game. Maybe then it won’t be a total mess, disaster, you know a distaster like a California forest fire, or like the floods right now in Nebraska.

But can we all be honest there are people on these forums that go way over the top creating drama. This whole topic is the exact OPPOSITE of what some have said I did... and I’m like HUH

He had a reveal no one had to watch, no one had to attend, and no one has to buy the game.

It is PINBALL man so have some fun with it and go ask JACK for one of those Make Pinball Great Again hats! LOL

Here are my conclusions...

Pinball is an industry based in creativity and mechanical design. At some point, conflict arises regarding those elements, and unforseen, unplanned and most of all, undesired delays occur.

I imagine a month ago, or months ago, both JJP and Stern planned on two major unveils for this show. Being new to the hobby, at this level anyway, I've taken in that TPF and Chicago Expo are...the...two biggest shows for unveilings. That said, it's highly unlikely that Stern planned an entire hour for Steve to banter about aimlessly, and not really give firm answers on what Stern's next game will be. It's pretty clearcut that Black Knight 3000 was to be unveiled here, given the complete aimlessness of what he brought to the literal table. We also have to understand, that without pretense laden PR people, these industry people aren't entertainers, actors, or storytellers. (And I appreciate this level of authenticity!) They're as awkward as you or I might be in a situation like this, so things come off as not polished, not crisp, and "whoopsie daisy" at times and most of all fumbling.

To that point, Jack seemed fairly anxious. He was also fumbling with a water bottle a good bit, and had ample hat supply, along with random call-outs to folks he saw in the audience. Why? Because he didn't want to say something akin to.....

(This is what I assume he might have said, given total transparency.). "Guys, we'd planned to show our next game Willy Wonka: The Choco-dilliest Adventure here at TPF, but we encountered some design issues/code hiccups/parts delays, and we didn't want to repeat what happened with Pirates because we certainly know sales took a dive, and many of you were pissed off at us. Instead, we want Wonka to be announced, and then a month later, be shipping to you. So.....instead of that, I've got a full hour of presentation time, that I'd planned for Wonka, but now I'm going to have to give you this wet thud of an announcement that otherwise was going to take the first five minutes here, or be released as a trailer online, and tell you exactly how disappointed I am, as well as you, that I can't show you Wonka just yet, at the second biggest convention of the year..... That said, here's........... ... .. ." - Not Jack.

Clearly that hour, as was Steve's, was meant to be something more than it was. But Jack can't come out, present what he's able, and undercut a product he wants to sell with complete transparency. That's not how any industry works. So instead, we get a genuinely, ass in the fire nervous Jack, who I really feel sorry for more than upset at, that had to sell a niche collector's product, that was meant to be nothing more than a fill-in for a production stopgap, between their next big release for an entire hour of time.

That said, along with Stern having empty hands, and Deep Root being invisible both in Texas, and oddly on these boards via complaints or their own PR, the one company that has the ability to course correct is American Pinball, and depending on what Spooky shows with ACNC also. Oktoberfest had a really strong showing with Marty from Head 2 Head last night via stream, and Josh from API, and they might just walk away with an upward swing of sales and press, due to more polish in their game, and all of these wet fart bombs landing all around them.

Oh well, off to watch more streams, and chug a lug some beers while doing so. Just figured I'd share some conclusions.

Pssssst. It's okay to admit you're being abrasive. Or double and triple down. Either way, no worries.

I think we're...all...here because we enjoy fun, felt hype, and are disappointed....for now. Nothing more.

I'd like to see winged monkey people. Good idea there!

After reading through this thread, only one question remains... who the hell wants another GNR pinball? Is there really demand for GNR? I guess that's two questions.

Probably no one. Its such an off the wall suggestion for a next game from any manufacturer. Someone out there really likes the band and is hoping for another game though. They’re alright i just dont see the market for it. Then again I would have said the same thing about AC/DC.

Though in many natural objects, whiteness refiningly enhances beauty, as if imparting some special virtue of its own, as in marbles, japonicas, and pearls; and though various nations have in some way recognised a certain royal preeminence in this hue; even the barbaric, grand old kings of Pegu placing the title ‘King of the White Elephants’ above all their other magniloquent ascriptions of dominion; and the modern kings of Siam unfurling the same snow-white quadruped in the royal standard; and the Hanoverian flag bearing the one figure of a snow-white charger; and the great Austrian Empire, Caesarian, heir to overlording Rome, having for the imperial colour the same imperial hue; and though this pre-eminence in it applies to the human race itself, giving the white man ideal mastership over every dusky tribe; and though, besides, all this, whiteness has been even made significant of gladness, for among the Romans a white stone marked a joyful day; and though in other mortal sympathies and symbolizings this same hue is made the emblem of many touching, noble things—the innocence of brides, the benignity of age; though among the Red Men of America the giving of the white belt of wampum was the deepest pledge of honour; though in many climes, whiteness typifies the majesty of Justice in the ermine of the Judge, and contributes to the daily state of kings and queens drawn by milk-white steeds; though even in the higher mysteries of the most august religions it has been made the symbol of the divine spotlessness and power; by the Persian fire worshippers, the white forked flame being held the holiest on the altar; and in the Greek mythologies, Great Jove himself being made incarnate in a snow-white bull; and though to the noble Iroquois, the midwinter sacrifice of the sacred White Dog was by far the holiest festival of their theology, that spotless, faithful creature being held the purest envoy they could send to the Great Spirit with the annual tidings of their own fidelity; and though directly from the Latin word for white, the alb or tunic, worn beneath the cassock; and though among the holy pomps of the Romish faith, white is specially employed white robes are given to the redeemed, and the four-and-twenty elders stand clothed in white before the great-white throne, and he sitteth there white like wool; yet for all these accumulated associations, with whatever is sweet, and honourable, and sublime, there yet lurks an elusive something in the innermost idea of this hue, which strikes more of panic to the soul than that redness which affrights in blood.

Absolutely! JJP is on a fishing expedition to see what the market will bare. If these YBR sell at 11500- then they celebrate when WW or some other LE comes out at the same price point.
Remember it's all about asking, you won't know what you can get for something unless you ask. If price is too high nothing sells but if people line up to throw money at you with deposits then you can laugh your way to the bank.
-Mike

Well, in my case I'll skip Wonka and TS but will buy JJP GNR

Choose positivity and happiness will win follow.

Maybe you guys forget the DI unveiling. The attacks on JJP and Lawlor about the presentation and product. That was sad. Their impression of Pinside is no less disappointing I'm sure because of that. Did anyone take a look at the shat comments on the Twitch feed? That's even sadder. JJP makes great products and they are expensive yes. There are cheaper options for pin buyers. Eric still posts on Pinside, so does Keef. I like those guys for that.

Let's not forget the times it has been stated jack does it for the passion and Gary does it for the money

This may very well be true but at the end of the day you need to run a solvent business. Passion ain’t enough!

TL;DR.

That game will be aimed at the same people who paid crazy money for Primus and Beatles. Remember, Slash is a big pinball fan, so they’re doing it for that crowd.. plus him.

I totally want one. I hate the art on the DE one. A deluxe GnR pin? Yesplease.

Gimmie that Slash Hat topper!

Thanks for all the feedback and I agree its just pinball. The way JJ displayed his presentation be it having the entire staff of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders or just throwing hats around. Can someone anyone tell me what in the HELL does that have to do with the game itself??? I can save you the time... NOTHING!

So crying about a presentation what in the hell!

YOu don’t like the price okay its pricy but he’s a business, he’s trying to make money. Don’t like the price don’t buy it.

IF you have a product that has demand why not try to sell some more.
/
Has ANYONE see PURGE 18 (LOL) or SAW 45 or how many James Bond movies are their? Why don’t we start a thread asking MGM to stop making James Bond movies because I mean seriously how many more terrorists can he kill.

John Wick he’s killed over 400 people across two movies how are their anymore assasinns to hunt him in John Wick 3. If it makes money you keep doing it. If there is demand and people pay the 11,500 guess what they’ll make another run and another.

These are just facts! All I’m saying.

Lastly, Can I get another 50 down votes, I’m a little hurt that I didn’t get more. I’m not feeling the love you know. Because of these down votes are really hurting my feelings I think I need a few more to really feel depressed. Keep them coming!!! LOL

I'll put the "11 1/2" in the hat band myself.

And perhaps Pinball companies lack marketing and press people who can influence 'messaging'. Prior to shows, I've noticed the pinside hype and rumors have gotten out of control. Pinball reality can't possibly match pinsider dreams of better, cheaper, faster, lighter (lol)...

So as early as possible, pin companies should clarify their agenda and set expectations for a show reveal or panel. "Hey, we're going to unveil a new version of an existing game and answer Q&A. The next game isn't ready for reveal at show, sorry." JJP is probably still gun-shy after the sh*tstorm from their sharing of early POTC details. Would hate to see these guys stop doing Q&A panels or other show presentations because of pinside rage.

Ahhh, reverse psychology. You'll get less downvotes if you ask for more downvotes. I like where you're going with this...

No down vote from me. In my book, this sentence wins the internet for today! LOL!

In the end, it's a bunch of nerds constructing things out of plywood, light bulbs, and some wire. You're not gonna get flashy Apple iPhone XS or BMW i8 presentations with multi-million dollar videos, light shows, and scantily clad models. If that's what people are expecting, JJ is gonna have to raise their prices quite a bit higher than they already have!

I hope they never run out of asassins, those movies kick ass.

Yes, they do! I own both!

Criticism is an exercise of having faith in a company that they can do better. Your comment is a perfect example of having no faith that they can. This is what so few of the status Quo-ers, shills and coolaid drinkers fail to understand, it’s because we care. What information is conveyed from those who always repeat the same lines no matter what they do or present? Nothing. Yet read through critique and it often contains very specific content. Anyway, something to think about for those who are able.

Keep the hot takes coming and the downvotes will continue!

Nothing to do with DI. That was not them it was the theme of the game. This time it was jjps complete lack of interest in marketing a game that was 11.5 and actually less featured than it's 6.5 counterpart.

This was a complete mess and I'm a BIG fan of jjp. I'm not going to sugar coat this BS though - just not me.

Short answer is yes. Search the forums for my response as to why - it's borderline proven.

Wow, and to remember I paid 6500.00 for my original WOZ, ECLE.
Thats just nuts.

Nothing was as sad as being in the room during the unveiling, you could feel the disappointment as the cloth slid off the game. But watching Gary walk out while everyone was sitting there pretty much in stunned silence was pretty funny. People came around some the next day as they got to play the game, but that was a painful presentation to view.

Is what it is, I know all about people being disappointed in a game, heh. End of the day it's lame to personally attack people at companies, but you can't just sit there and clap when they jack the price up, take out mechs, and unveil yet another LE of a game that was already supposed to have had an LE, and then got another.

I feel for JJP, but they made this bed themselves.

I changed my mind, from now on i will call it the yellow dick toad edition!

Thought it was the 10 1/2”? | | | |

You probably won't have a problem getting one if they make it. Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against GNR and I love JJP machines... I just can't imagine that there would be demand for GNR at this point in time.