Quoted from Rarehero:
Dudes...I'm a huge Nintendo fan. Seriously why would you want to spend $9000 on a Nintendo themed pinball?
$299 gets you a Nintendo Switch
$59 Zelda Breath of the Wild
$59 Super Mario Odyssey
The Switch is literally why I'm barely playing pinball right now, and definitely won't be buying anymore pinball machines. Such a low price for such a huge amount of entertainment. I'm playing this right now with friends around the world:
» YouTube video
Here are my pre-orders for the year...and it's not a pinball...they'll release on time with complete code, $59 a pop:
» YouTube video
» YouTube video
Lol, yeah. To be fair people could say buy movies for $20 instead of a movie based pin, and buy the band's album for $15 instead of a pin.
Quoted from Rarehero:
That's what I'm doing from now on! I've got my Ghostbusters Blu-Ray....my Lebowski Blu-Ray...don't need the pins for them. For the cost of a pinball machine, you can buy a whole bad-ass projector home theater setup and still have money left over.
Pinball is expensive but there are other hobbies that are even more expensive. Boating can be insanely expensive between the cost of a boat, storage, maintenance, etc. Same goes for sports cars, higher end cars or classic cars. I cant tell ya how many people buy $40-$50k new cars and then have $500-$700 a month car payments, and then pay $120+ per month for car insurance.
Part of pinballs comeback is that it's a game that exist in the real world in a world where nearly all games are digital. Humans will always have the desire to do and control things in the real world over simulations. Its the reason why manned space exploration will continue over only robotic missions, why people will continue to buy classic cars over playing them in a video game, and why nearly everyone will continue to take vacations vs putting a VR headset on for a simulated beach view.
Absolutely! A new modern BTTF pin would sell like hot cakes. Imagine an LE with armor that is made out of grade 304 stainless steel (same as the Delorean) with a brushed finished look to resemble the car along with a ST LE armor lightning effect? Hot damn that would be an incredible looking LE.
Quoted from trunchbull:
Everyone I know is incredibly sick of Pirates.
Yeah, I hear ya there. If #4 is POTC I hope it's based off of the Disney theme itself rather then the film's. Still, even if it's based of the film's I think it will be great as JJP is making it and it will have a deep objective based ruleset by Keith Johnson.
Quoted from vireland:
Hobbit is just not fun. Too much same-yness and the popups get very annoying. And even with the difficulty turned up, there's too much multiball.
Well many others would say the opposite. Personally I think TH is one of the best mode based games ever created.
I don't understand the "same-yness" comments as all of its mode are unique in their own way and require the player to work the playfield in interesting ways.
All pinball machines become repetitive as layouts and features never change. However, deep and unique code helps add longevity to modern pins and thankfully TH has one of the deepest rulesets, with unique rules for each mode, in pinball. Plus JJP isn't done with it
Absolutely! A new Back to the Future trilogy pinball machine by JJP would be incredible, especially with a deep objective based ruleset by Keith Johnson and all of the cool lighting effects the team could pull off with the platform.
Back to the Future is a huge license and is still incredibly popular like Ghostbusters.
Imagine an LE with armor made out brushed grade 304 stainless steel, the exact same grade of stainless used on the Delorean?! Then have the sides laser etched along with interior cabinet lighting (Stern Star Trek LE style) for time circuit lighting effects. Hot damn, take my money now!
Where JJP can succeed where Stern failed with POTC is a deep objective based ruleset thanks to Keith Johnson. I think Stern's POTC game looks cool and has one of the best toys in pinball but its ruleset is it's biggest flaw. The rules in POTC do not center around beating modes based on scenes from the films with mini wizard modes for major events but rather involve hitting the same shot over and over again for a set of rather generic tasks. Want to destroy the ship? Hit the ship shot 5x, then 10x for the second ship, etc...ugh. I owned the game for a few months and sold it as the ruleset became boring rather quickly for me.
Keith Johnson is the king of objective based rulesets in my opinion. The man has a gift for telling a themes story through code and comes up with interesting and unique ways for modes to be played that work the entire playfield. With Keith on the code, JP doing great animation work and possibly David Thiel on audio (not sure if he is but he did do the audio for TH) POTC could be one hell of a fun game.
Quoted from Hogbog:
30 Days?! Man, that's coming up fast!
I've played it. It's pretty sweet.
There are two key words here that reveal the theme. "Fast" and "sweet". If you recall the Delorean in BTTF needs to travel at the relatively "fast" speed of 88mph to activate the the flux capacitor. Secondly, in the first film you will recall that Mr. Sandman is playing when Marty enters the town in 1955. The very lines "Mr. Sandman bring me a treat" can be heard, this corresponds to candy and treats in general being "sweet". Ah ha!
In conclusion the next JJP title must be Back to the Future! Lol
Looking forward to the reveal! Let's hope that JJP puts some more showmanship around this reveal and has a better live stream then last years Dialed In reveal.
Dim the lights, turn on the fog machine, have some crazy light show. Jack introduces the JJP team members and then takes the cover off the game while he says "ladies and gentlemen I present to you Jersey Jack Pinballs 4th title....". Then boom, some pyrotechnic flames go off behind the game. Something like that, well maybe not the pyrotechnics part, lol.
Quoted from beelzeboob:
I would be happy if Depp was nowhere on the game - he's been acting like a tool lately...and I find the concept of the game being based on the rides pretty intriguing. That never even occurred to me. It's a fresh take on the game, and I already have a POTC that's based on the movies.
That could very well happen. I swear I recall Jack saying that #4 or a future game "is and isn't an licensed theme" or something along those lines in an interview ways back. A POTC pin based off the overall Disney POTC theme versus the movies would fit that statement. Then again he could have been referring to Dialed In with JJP now being the license holder.
Quoted from FalconPunch:
It's a wide body. Full stop.
Sounds great to me. Load it up!
Yes! Imagine a mode based on the tripy chocolate river boat ride scene with Willy Wonka taking up the entire screen and crazy lighting effects. That would be sweet and JJP could pull it off the best.
Quoted from Taxman:
Those models don't bother me because it is the same game (layout and rules). All you are choosing to buy or not is bling, cabinet art . . . Nothing I give a crap about.
I like to play pinball and not stare at them (or flip them for profit). I hate having to decide if it is worth the money for ramps and rule changes.
Agree when it comes to LE's. JJP actually still justifies the LE price difference unlike the latest Stern games. However, I don't like the collectors / super LE type editions and find that they come across as a money grab.
If a company is going to offer an LE model then that should be the too end model...not another even more expensive model. Just my opinion.
Don't forget "Spanish Ladies" multiball, lol. Then there needs to be another mode just dedicated to Quint with him yelling at the player, if you fail he gets eaten...
Quoted from jonesjb:
Seriously though. Why are people hoping for or expecting Jaws? Sure it could be a great pin and theme, but I can think of 100+ themes from the 70's - 80's with similar nostalgic appeal, but with a much better pinball fit. No disrespect intended... it just seems random, and am wondering where the impetus is coming from?
I'm talking about findin a great wide body! 4 maybe 5 footer. Ever see a JJP playfield? Kinda like an old Bally Williams playfield, all shiny and full of life.
Quoted from iamabearsfan:
I owned Stern's version of PoTC for exactly four months. I tried to like the game. I really could never like the game, yet love it. It was one of the fastest titles in and out of my basement.
Same here, had one for about the same amount of time. I liked most of the layout and it has some great toys, especially the ship, but the rules are the games greatest weakness in my opinion.
A POTC themed pin seems perfect for a deep objective based ruleset but Sterns game didn't have one. Instead of objective based missions players are just required to hit the same shot over and over again. Beat 1 ship? Hit the ship 7x to destroy the next one, then 10x, 15x, etc. Ugh. It got old quick.
A JJP POTC could be incredible with a deep Keith Johnson ruleset, JP graphics, David Thiel audio work, and some awesome lighting affects. If it is POTC I bet we will see some amazing lighting affects for storms and battles. Can't wait.
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:
It's not pirates...hope you guys are ready for the biggest upset in pinball!
So there is hope that for the reveal the lights will dim, fog machine turns on and then Keith appears dressed as Dumbledore (as he's the ultimate pinball programming wizard after all) says a levitation spell and from a platform below the stage a Harry Potter pin rises.
Quoted from Mfsrc791:
I just got off the phone with Jack. It's dumb and dumber
Lol. Mockingbird Multiball?! This has been a fun thread to follow as we all wonder what the next game will be. Pumped for the reveal tomorrow. I think I'll be watching the live stream with some pizza and beers.
My cousins friends uncles brother in law claims to have seen on I-90 this morning a truck with a wrapped pinball machine in it and what looked like a Mr. Fusion topper sticking out from the head of the cabinet.
Whatever #4 is I'll only buy one 6 months after they start to ship. Pretty much every new pin has early issues that get corrected within 6 months of release. I no longer find it worth it to be one of the first people to get a new pin.
I have it on good authority that this guy saw the game. He provided a written account and said
"I've seen toys you people wouldn't believe. A mini playfield off the shoulder of the game. I watched multiballs glitter in the dark near the upper GI. All these gameplay moments will be lost in time, like balls going into the trough. Time to play."
Hoping it doesn't leak either. I'll be back in this thread after the reveal. No spoilers! Lol
I couldn't stay away from this thread until the stream started, lol. Game looks awesome and packed! Looking forward to hearing more about the games features tonight.
Sounds like an incredible Keith Johnson ruleset.
Here's some details
105 modes (chapters is what Eric called them)
5 are randomly assigned to each of the games 5 films
Millions of different combinations so no two games will every play the same
Quoted from konjurer:
JJP coding of the display is light years ahead of anyone. The overall presentation on the LCD is amazing. Stern's animations are just not very good at this point.
Yup. The amount of coding, and the quality / variety of it, is a huge difference maker when it comes to JJP games. High quality code adds to the value factor of these games in a big way.
Quoted from Skins:
I played a few games and it’s brilliant. I had a few gameplay videos that I can’t get to load to YouTube for some reason. It’s seriously fun to play. Loving it. There are tons of cool stuff too. The upper playfield is molded as the back of the black pearl but what’s so damn sweet is there are like 4 molded lanterns that flicker like its a flame lamp. Unbelievable attention to detail. It didn’t have to be in there and everyone would still love it but JJP went that next step. Bravo. I wanted the CE because the topper is so damn cool. I don’t however, like the art package as well as I do on the le/se. I’m a sucker for the skull and cross bones. The barnacle trim is not good either. As bad as I want the topper, I think le is the path for me. JJP crushed it.
Great to hear. I noticed those lamps on the mini playfield as well. Extremely cool and like you said great attention to detail.
Quoted from thewool:
For those who were at the reveal, was there any mention about a Hobbit code update?
From what I watched the entire panel was about the latest game. At last years expo JJP had another panel the following day that I think that went into more stuff.
Quoted from vireland:
Indy was 3 movies, LotR was 3 movies, Hobbit was too. The interchange scenarios and missions sound impressive, but I hope it's not handled like Hobbit where there's a LOT of same-ness. Give me less but make it all memorable.
I really like little details like the lanterns on the ship playfield flickering.
If the modes are like The Hobbit they will all be unique. Each of the Hobbits 31+ modes are unique and work the playfield in interesting ways. Keith knows how to create objective based rulesets extremely well. I'm sure we are going to see a lot of unique modes for POTC.
Quoted from hank527:
Not really. They will probably go back and raise prices again as they see JJP getting more.
I'm betting Stern goes to
Very soon as when sales start to fall, my guess is they raise prices.
JJP certainly one this Expo. It's not even close.
It's ridiculous in my opinion for us to pay those prices for Stern games with what they are offering. Star Wars looks cool but seems like an absolutely rip off for the asking price.
Sterns problem isn't that the games they are making are not cool as they are. The problem is their asking prices are not being justified by enough features and proper code support.
What Stern is pulling would be similar to Ford charging $200k for a Mustang GT as Ferarri is charging those prices so why can't they? Lol
Quoted from thewool:
I own a Hobbit and respect your opinion but can't totally agree with you here. When I'm playing Hobbit modes I don't feel engaged in some of them like I do in LOTR or STTNG for example. Some of them feel more like an afterthought... What I mean is all you care about while playing is completing it to get the rune rather than feeling immersed in the mission. I also think mode progress status needs working on as while you know what to shoot for, you never really know your progression. More modes does seem to have diluted some of the experience, hope the same cannot be said for POTC.
I understand. I think part of the issue is not requiring the player to beat X number of modes to unlock one of the games 3 mini wizard modes. Instead only 1 is required to be completed and with a game with so many modes that seems odd. That should be changed and would be a nice adjustable option in the menu.
With POTC I wonder if the 5 randomly choosen modes for each film will need to be completed to unlock that movies multiball?
I would highly recommend Abel Electronics here in Michigan. Gary from Abel offers stellar customer service. I'll be preordering my game through him.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
I'm not comparing the machines, I'm comparing the price. It's accurate to say a route operator can buy a Stern pro for around $5000, while a new JJP is gonna cost around $9,000. That's about 8,000-10,000 more paid games even to break even for an op when you factor in location split.
That's why it's funny to me that people are suggesting Pirates is going to put Stern out of business or make them also-rans.
It's not going to happen, just like JJP isn't suddenly going to start putting out stripped down $5,000 games like some have suggested they should. I agree with you that Stern is going to have to up their LE game - big time - if they want to compete for the LE dollars with the quality of games JJP is putting out, but that's not their bread and butter.
The weirdest thing to me is the vitrol and seething anger towards Stern you see dripping from posts throughout this thread, which really should be a celebratory JJP thread. Never ceases to amaze me how personally people take this stuff - everybody is acting like they are young actresses and Stern is Harvey Weinstein. It doesn't surprise me but I always think it's kind of strange. Stern is just trying to make a buck, just like JJP. They didn't poison your goldfish.
Stern has created their own problems and it's their own fault for the backlash. They did this to themselves.
In my opinion the 3 biggest reasons for the negative attitude towards Stern are raising prices while offering less in games, lowering quality, and regular code delays.
Quoted from FatPanda:
Stern = Toyota, steady Eddy, nothing fancy, gets the job done
JJP = Mercedes - more expensive than Toyota, fewer cars in the lineup, lots of bells and whistles, gets the job done in style.
Yes but what Stern is doing would be like Toyota charging $70k for a Corolla as hey Mercedes does it. Lol.
I think this is one of the coolest looking games ever designed and I'm going to pre-order one. One concern I do have is regarding the use of assets that is discussed in the Pinball News POTC interview with Jack and Eric.
Apparently the game will not feature any voice work from the 5 film's. The only call outs heard will be from the custom call outs which are thankfully recorded by one of the film's actors. Also, Eric said that 1,100 custom lines were recorded! Still, not having any voice work from the other characters, especially Jack Sparrow, is a bit of a bummer.
I haven't finished watching the interview but I wonder if no video clips are currently in the game as they are not allowed? Not having the voices, licensed music (at least the main track), and possibly video assets as well stinks but I know JJP has to follow the rules that Disney, the licensor, sets.
Still, just what an incredibly looking and fun game. Can't wait to play it.
Quoted from libtech:
Just looking at the std vs le
Looks like besides the armour, the star lights, rock plastics on the left and spinning guy on the pops is whats missing from the standard?
I just finished watching the Pinball News interview with Eric and Jack. Here's a few notes regarding the SE to LE differences.
Quoted from Pimp77:
Is this true??? No voices from the movies allowed? That's a REAL problem on a $9500 game IMO...especially one with tons of "chapters"/modes. How the eff are they going to sound unique and how will the video clips work without sound??? Can't be true, right?
That's what was said in the interview. Pinball News said no voice asserts correct and JJP responsed yes but that they had recorded 1,100 callouts from custom voice work done by one of the film's actors, Kevin McNally, for Gibbs
The original Pirates by Stern didn't have voice assets from any of the film's either, jusr custom callouts by a Jack Sparrow sound a like.
Every licensor seems to have different rules for licensing audio. All I know is that it's pretty damn remarkable that The Hobbit has a licensed track, 31 approved tracks from Two Steps From Hell, custom voice work, original actor audio from pretty much all of the characters and video assets for all 3 films.
Just depends on the studio I guess with how much flexibility is given.
No way, JJP's game has nearly twice as many shots. Counting shots that pass through an area or drop into something it looks like JJP's POTC has at least 13 and Sterns game is at 7, 9 if you want to count the far left and right horse shoe shots that are not really makable.
There's far more to shoot for in the JJP version and the ruleset will be 10x as deep as the one in the Stern version.
Quoted from Aurich:
The sad thing is it's even dumber than people realize when you see it all from the inside, I learned that first hand. You can use this, but not that, and you can do it this way, but not that way, and you're told one thing from one person, but then you're dealing with approval with someone else and the rules have utterly changed on you.
Or you think "I have the movie rights, so I get all this stuff", but then the music is actually from a different sub company than the film, and was licensed to the movie, probably in some scheme to make profits look lower and avoid paying out percentages, and you need another $50k for this, and another person to approve that, and it's just a web of BS.
You can use this actor, but not this one, because the second actor is British, and has a totally different contract.
I suspect though that the things I learned with Alien are even crazier with modern films like POTC, because on the these old movies the contracts weren't written with all the modern digital media and licensing in mind. No way something like a huge budget Disney franchise isn't loaded with all kinds of detailed legal language for this that and the third. You can use this specific likeness, but not the person in motion, or whatever.
Personally I think NOT having a ton of film clips and re-used movie lines is great. I'm sure the JJP team chafed at restrictions, who wouldn't, but it means they got creative and did their own thing, instead of just playing back pre-canned stuff.
It's time these LCD games figure out their own footing, beyond being glorified DVD players. DI was a huge step in that direction, I imagine lessons learned there were a big help with POTC. JJP definitely has the edge on this stuff now in my mind.
I'll take 1200 custom callouts over a bunch of movie lines I've heard before any day. I'm not a POTC buyer, too expensive for me, but I feel like we should be defending custom work over recycled work wherever we can. Watch the movies if you want to hear the lines, let the game be original and new.
I understand your points but the issue here is that unlike Dialed In POTC is a licensed theme and people want to hear and see things actually used in the license. I love Ghostbusters but if it didn't have the actors voices in the game I wouldn't be a buyer. Same with Hobbit and others. Original audio and video assets from a licensed theme help immerse the player in that world.
Example: Lets say theres a battle Dave Jones mode. The mode would have more of an impact on the player if it contains some video and lines from the character. For licensed material that will usually be the case versus not using the assets.
With that being said I'm looking forward to seeing all the creative things that the JJP team comes up with for this game. I'm glad to hear that JJP got one of the film's actors to record a ton of custom lines including those that are pinball specific.
Quoted from PW79:
How many toys are on this game?
Lol! I've lost count. So many toys.
The moving mini playfield with integrated canon, the multiple spinning disk toy, the apron LCD, the ship that the ball can be fired into, the whirlpool ramp, the spinning pop bumper pirate, the treasure chest with physical ball lock, lockdown bar button, camera, 5 flippers, 2 magnets, subway, 100+ modes covering all 5 films. Omg its insane. It's as if WOZ and TH had a baby, lol.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:
WOZ was not sold as a loss. The only reason it tecnically could be considered a loss, is because he was trying to get the entire company and startup paid for from WOZ alone in the first year, instead of first 5 years like normal businesses expect to have an entire company paid for. If you don't think JJP isn't starting to make a profit past the 3500 mark, you do not know pinball manufacturing very well. The ONLY reason prices are like they are, is because Jack started off with a super high price. People bought into it. Stern saw this, and jacked up their prices as well. People kept buying. Jack pushes forward. People keep buying. Stern pushes forward. People keep buying. Jack bumps it up again.....guess what. People keep buying. what does stern do? Well, if jack can make 200-300% profit. Why shouldn't we? Stern increases prices.......people keep buying. 4th release. what happens? Jack increases prices yet again......people keep buying. If you think the cost of these games has gone up over the course of these 4 games, you are gravely mistaken. B/W went almost 10 years with only a $400 price increase over those 10 years. cost of materials, building and what not does not increase as fast as you guys seem to pretend to think. Only reason you guys try to act like manufacturing has increased so dramatically over the past 4 years, is because you are trying to justify the constant price increases. Which people can't.
When Jack was on Kaneda's podcast a few months ago Jack himself said that JJP originally thought that WOZ's build of materials cost would be $4500. That was back in 2011. Well, he said they were way off.
With the quality, features and code development work put into JJP games I can see why they cost so much. Stern however no. What they are pulling would be like Ford charging $200k for a Mustang GT just because Ferrari can do it and then not putting in the extra features and quality to justify the price increase.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:
only because he's buying parts for the long haul. Flipper mechs, lamp boards, crap like that, that can be used on every game is bought in bulk. Not just for this run, but for many runs in the future. Has to pay for the jigs for assembly, assembly line material, and all the startup things he needs. He's counting all this shit and balling it up in WOZ total profit. Which it should be split up over 3 or 4 games. Plus he had to pay for a lot of screwups that happened through the learning process. Which he's not chalking up to loss, he counts it as cutting into WOZ's development cost. If you break it down, with all the releases and versions, his costs get less and less as you spread it out to more games. This is why I think Jack would benefit to put greed aside, and instead of prices continuing to go up. Drop back down to the 6500-7500 range and sell more games. Guarantee he would sell at least 1000-2000 more games by doing that. And more than enough make up the money from not cash grabbing from fewer sales.
You are making a ton of assumptions...
Jersey Jack Pinball games cost much more then Stern games due the build quality, features offered, included LE features and the amount of code work that goes into each title.
Please stop blaming JJP for Stern raising prices. If anyone is to blame for Sterns price increases it's ourselves for buying their games as they have continued to raise prices while cutting quality, features, and code support.
I've been watching some more gameplay videos and did notice that video clips from the movies are in the game. I was wondering if JJP had the rights to use video assets, good to see they do! It's still a bummer that none of the voices can be used but I think the video clips along with custom speech by Kevin McNally will work well.
Also, what a cool hidden shot behind the upper left flipper!
Agree about the scoop protectors needing to be installed at the factory. These things are always a pain the ass to install. It's great that Stern is now including them across all models. I hope JJP does as well and goes even further by including a shooter lane protector.
Quoted from Eskaybee:
I don’t know why so many people are hung up on video footage. Is it because of Hobbit? Cause that’s a totally different game in itself, support JJP and buy that if you want video footage in your collection. Me personally, video footage on the display is one of my least cares about assets. The display should thrive on scoring, progression and rules IMO.
If movie clips and stop n go Pinball really is your thing then I can respect that. But don’t get too tunnel vision on it. $8500 doesn’t buy you stop n go movie footage; it gets you a world of Pinball magic that Eric, Keefer, Joe, JP, and David bring to life.
I think its because the game costs nearly $10k and doesn't have actor audio and actor video assets, both of which help immerse the player in the theme and bring the world under glass to life. If Ghostbusters didn't have the actors audio I wouldn't have bought the game. Why? Peter Venkman, Ray Stanz, etc make Ghostbusters and without them what is it? Same goes for buying The Hobbit and Star Wars if Smaug / Gandalf and Luke / Vader were not in those games. I feel similar about POTC and wonder what is a POTC pin without Captain Jack Sparrow?
With that being said I think POTC by JJP is one of the coolest looking pins with an incredible design and amazing toy offering. The audio work by David Thiel, code work by Keith Johnson and animation work by JP are all incredible. The design that Eric has created for this game is amazing and its very impressive to see just how well the wide body format was taken advantage of for the game. Still, some people are going to be bummed about a lack of actor audio and actor video in this game as when they play a licensed themed game they want to see and hear the actors involved. I don't think this is a big issue for on location play but does become a more important point for home buyers.
I can see buying a POTC for the other reasons I mentioned. Typically I would write off buying a licensed theme game without actor audio and actor video for my personal collection but this game has so much else going for it that it may not matter in the end for me. POTC looks like the ultimate as far as feature packed pins go with a very deep and unique objective based ruleset.
I understand that we play pinball machines to play them but for a licensed game it's the actor audio and actor video that pulls you into the theme and adds to the world under glass feeling. Even if someone thinks The Hobbit were shitty movies there are many that don't and they enjoy seeing and hearing those clips in the game. Without them the game wouldn't be as good as it is today.
Take Alien for example as well. If that game didn't have the actor audio and actor video I don't think a lot of people would have been interested. Why? What is Alien and Aliens without the actors (even if Ripley isn't in the game)? A generic Alien game with a bunch of Alien screeches doesn't sound as fun compared to what was made.
It's not just about seeing the video clips either, personally I would take hearing the actor audio over seeing the video with actors. For the player they will always hear the actor audio. If you took away the actor audio away from DMD era games such as Addams Family, LOTR, Star Trek, etc I guarantee those games wouldn't be ranked as high or be as sought after as much as they are today.
I'm not saying that a licensed game without actor audio and actor video isn't fun as that's not the case. I'm just trying to say that having those assets in the games adds to creating that world under glass feeling and bringing a theme to life.
Quoted from pascal-pinball:
All modes/chapters are: shoot the caracter shots.
With this being the case I wonder how the modes will feel unique seeing as theres no actor audio from the films, as well as video, that plays when that characters shot is hit.
Are there custom Gibbs lines that are unique to each mode? If so that will help fill in the gap left by no actor audio for scene and help each mode stand on its own. However, if that's not the case I wonder how 100+ modes will feel unique?
As much as I like Houdini, and I have one on order, I may need to change it to a POTC. I can buy one NIB pin this year, maybe for the next several years. I like Keith's objective based rulesets the best and POTC appears to easily have the deepest ruleset ever created in pinball and on top of that is also one of the most loaded pins ever created.
The sheer amount of software, sound and animation work going into this pin helps ease the pain of the games price tag. Compared to an average Stern game POTC appears to offer 3-5x the amount of code.
Quoted from Eskaybee:
It really is. In respect of keeping this thread on topic, I'll pm you my thoughts of Houdini. But, JJPOTC seriously one of the best pins I've ever played. If anyone is in the market for a $7k+ pin, I'd strongly advise them to spend the extra $1-3k and get JJPOTC. Its really worth the price of admission and smokes all the other $7k+ pins on the market right now. But I guess it also depends on what kind of pin that person wants in their collection, some people just don't want great games.
Good points. Yeah at the $7k price point I think Houdini is offering the most value by far, really loaded game for the price. POTC is another $2500 but I think its well justified as the game is one of the most loaded pins ever created. Exciting times with so many new pin choices.
I noticed that PinballNews has audio up from the TPF JJP seminar. Does anyone know if the seminar was recorded? There's a lot of interesting information about POTC development but pictures are being referenced in it so a video of the seminar would be great to see.
Also, noticed that Eric mentioned that the starfield map is not coded yet but it will display constellations that will be related to shots, sounds cool. It was also funny to hear that Disney wanted no reference to alcohol (rum in this case) in the game yet the movies reference rum dozens of times, lol.
Here's a couple notes about the camera on the game. During the JJP TPF seminar Eric mentioned that the camera will be used for high scores so I think that means high score pictures. He said he can't say anything beyond that so it sounds like there may be more uses of the camera.
I think a really cool and fun use of the camera would be to create "wanted" pirate posters that feature the players face. This could be featured in high scores and / or even during gameplay in certain modes.
If possible the posters could look something like below and when "caught" during gameplay would award the listed bounty. This feature could work when even one player is playing as well as on location by seeing the wanted posters and bounties of players that have posted existing high scores. The higher a players high score the greater the bounty point total.
Quoted from drewski28:
Dude! That was my question at TPF about the camera hahaha!!! How awesome!!! Glad to know it wasn't a total boneheaded question. But yeah his answer gets me so excited about the possibilities with the camera. Especially with the high quality video it is putting out for the weekly JJP videos.
Haha, that is awesome. Great question. Really looking forward to what uses JJP comes up with for the camera on POTC.
Just placed an order for an LE. I rewatched the Straight Down the Middle Pirates videos they did with Eric and Keith and they have sold me on the game. As a fan of objective based rulesets and loaded games POTC appears to be the ultimate pin.
There's just so much being offered by this game in terms of toys, shots and software. The amount of work going into the software for POTC will give it legs for years to come. POTC in my opinion comes across as a mix of WOZ, TH, Simpons and LOTR on steroids. Very excited to own this game.
Quoted from Axl:
Strategy and scoring.
What are the strategy’s?
Multiballs, chapters and what?
My favorite example, Shadow. On Shadow you have several options.
Shadow loops, battlefield, modes, multiballs and vengeance.
What would be the option in pirates?
To clarify, I am thinking first level. Wizard mode is after 5 chapters and multiball so that is out of the equation.
So here's something cool I learned from the Straight Down the Middle POTC video they did with JJP. Keith Johnson mentioned that wizard mode scoring is based off of the number of characters collected from a movies 5 chapters X the number of super jackpots made for that movies multiball.
While you don't need to complete a movies 5 modes to reach its wizard mode the more that are completed the better your wizard mode scoring will be. The more super jackpots earned for a movies multiball the greater your wizard mode scoring will be as well.
Also, the number of qualified movie modes impacts the shot multiplier when you start a mode. There's a shot on the playfield for each of the 5 movies which corresponds to the 5 cannon chapter slots on the LCD. The more chapters that are qualified before starting a mode the greater a chapters shot multiplier will be once it's started.
Assuming all 5 wizard modes are played (may have to be beaten, same with chapters and multiballs, not sure) you can start the games super wizard mode called "Break the Curse".
Finally the character you pick can influence your scoring as well which is really cool. I would highly recommend watching the entire Straight Down the Middle video with JJP to learn more, Keith even covers the abilities of all 20 something characters towards the end.
Oh, yet another cool thing mentioned in one of the Straight Down the Middle Pirates videos, apparently there are sails on the Black Pearl but they are not on the games we saw yet. As a side note there's also the LE topper which hasn't been unveiled yet. More cool stuff to come.
I assume the 5 lights that were lit were for the movie chapter inserts. That means that all 25 chapters were played, but not necessarily beaten (very unlikely). There's an additional mode insert above each movie chapter insert for the games 5 mini wizard modes plus there's the "Break the Curse" super wizard mode which may very well require everything to be played if not beaten.
Quoted from PinballTilt:
O, ok. I probably just misunderstood. I saw the five squares for the multiball lit and got some super jackpots and assumed that was it. It was fun though, I love the multiball sequences.
Yeah they look pretty cool. Sounds like you started all 5 movie multiballs, very impressive! I'm hoping some choreography in terms of clips from the movies are added to the multiballs.
Quoted from pinballinreno:
Im seriously thinking of selling my TH to get a JJPPOTC.
However I played a few games at TPF and wasnt drawn in as much as I was with the Houdini (I put a deposit down for Houdini).
The shots were tight on both games, but not nearly as brutal as my AFMRle
I couldnt hear the audio in the games there as it was very busy.
Maybe its just me but I will have to play it more? Im tired of waiting for code to make TH a real game (although TH is truly amazing and immersive and the audio is unsurpassed).
So should I pull the trigger and upgrade to JJPOTC or wait for JJP5?
Dont get me wrong, I love my THse but dont play it often, it seems boring with incomplete code.
I think saying the Hobbit isn't a real game is very far off from the truth. It's far more complete and deeper then 99% of pins out there. It just needs some final polish and a super wizard mode to help make it a masterpiece. Both of those items are coming according to Keith and Ted just said last week that he's been working on Hobbit code recently.
Quoted from vireland:
It's not "hate" it's the truth, at least for me and some others. We've had all the JJP machines here, and Hobbit was the one no one liked after a few months of play. Based on what I've seen of jjPotC, Hobbit will probably remain dead last of JJP pins. But why is that so weird? Even batting .750 is a ridiculously awesome record. Pinball is not consistent historically. They can't all be winners. Pretending they are isn't doing anyone any favors.
No, it's your opinion which is totally cool but I think it's the way you conveyed it that resulted in all the down votes, lol . At the same time The Hobbit is also considered an incredible pin by many, hell it's one of the top rated pins by Straight Down the Middle. Considering how many pins are out there now being rated #30 currently on Pinside is pretty damn good as well. Personally I think it's one the best objective based pins ever made with excellent use of licensed assets.
One thing that does bother me about The Hobbit is that it lacks a super wizard mode, something JJP said two years ago would be in the game yet it's still not there even though we know the name of POTC's super wizard mode. It's coming but who knows how long the wait will be. If POTC has its super wizard mode coded first I think that's a pretty crappy way of treating Hobbit owners and it doesn't seem right.
Quoted from dnaman:
I agree, the apron decal definitely seems out of sorts; muted and boring. I would think that might change (come on Jack, throw us a RAD CAL apron decal bone here) but if not there will be plenty of after-market ones. Although it would be nice to not have to buy that extra.
Regarding the disc noise, the claim is that they are working on the chest and disc so that might be on the 'things to look at' list.
Agree. The current apron decal doesn't fit the the rest of the theme and lacks color compared to the playfield. Also Poseidon isn't even in any of the movies, yes his trident is but not Poseidon himself. It may not even be Poseidon on the apron as he's not holding a trident but what looks like a spear. Since the characters are already on the playfield and side art it would be cool to see a couple of the ships battling it out on the apron artwork. The apron artwork on POTC is the only ugly thing art wise I can think of on an otherwise beautiful game. I don't think this is the final apron artwork.
However, it's important to note that the games shown so far have been prototypes, things could change. We haven't seen the topper for the LE yet and in one of the Straight Down the Middle POTC videos one of the guys mentions that sails of some kind will be on the Black Pearl toy.
Here’s a “little” write up about POTC after I played 5 games on it today at Abel Electronics
I’m starting with the the toys as oh POTC has the toys! The rocking ship is one of the coolest pinball toys I’ve seen. While up on the mini playfield you have two mini orbit shots to hit, standups to light the canon and of course the canon shot itself. I also found it a welcoming challenge to gain access to the canon which I unfortunately didn’t get a chance to use during my gameplay (didn’t make the shot). The spinning map on the prototype I played didn’t appear to match the movement of the one shown in the latest JJP live streams and was likely an older hardware version. However, the map toy is pretty damn cool considering all of the combinations of awards and it being comprised of 3 spinning disks. The chest physical ball lock is cool and the Maelstrom ramp with the whirlpool hole is very fun to hit for starting one of the movie multiballs + jackpots (I think it was for “On Stranger Tides”). While the compass mini LCD isn't coded yet I can see it being a helpful feature to have on the game (plus it does show animated rule cards). Then there’s there’s the spinning pirate (Tortuga Tom!), multiple molded toys, etc. POTC may very well be the most loaded pin I’ve ever played.
What a beautiful game, from the playfield to the side artwork to the backglass. The only complaint I have in terms of artwork is the apron artwork which does not go along well with the rest of the game. I think a scene featuring battling ships on the apron with colors more in line with the playfield / cabinet would complete the entire art package.
The design of POTC simply screams fun is is one of my new favorite layouts in pinball. The game has a great combination of flow and stop and go based gameplay with unique shots. POTC easily has the most variety of unique shots I’ve seen in a pin and like the designer Eric has mentioned there are multiple paths to many of the games shots. I was also surprised to see multiple ways to access the ship, from the main ramp, to a skill shot in the back right, to the left inner orbit.
I don’t believe the prototpye I played was running the latest code. Thanks to the Straight Down the Middle video with Eric and Keith I was at least somewhat familiar with the rules and how to start chapters and light several of the games multiball. I can report that to me the chapters all felt unique with their own unique music. The ability to choose from 22 different characters all with unique abilities really adds a new dimension to pinball rules as it opens up a lot of different strategies for such a deep game. POTC is a game that you can own for years and always have something new to see / reach for. Overall the ruleset, from the little I’ve played, comes across as an extremely deep objective based ruleset that tells the themes story through it code.
I’ve knocked the game for not having the audio lines from the movies. However, I think that Kevin McNally did an excellent job with the games callouts. Kevin McNally is a skilled actor and it shows through with the voice work he did for POTC. The Gibbs callouts go with the game perfectly. I doubt all of the Gibbs callouts are in the game as I believe that over 1000 were recorded. If there's one area of concern, and maybe I just didn't notice, it would be that I hope callouts related to each of the games modes were recorded as with the lack of actor audio that would help set the scene for each mode (same with mulitballs, mini wizard modes).
J.P has knocked it out of the park in the animation department for POTC. The animated treasure map on the screen that changes as you progress through the game is one of the coolest things I’ve seen on a pinball LCD yet. I also liked how each section of the LCD corresponds to one of the five movies and matches up to the order of the movie inserts on the playfield. All of the animations created by JP help create the world of Pirates of the Caribbean. The match sequence with the characters rotating on the ship wheel is one of my favorite animations in the game so far as is the extra ball one. I do hope that more animations along with movie clips are added to each of the games 5 multiballs as besides the opening animation each of them currently feels the same visually.
Audio / Music
David Thiel has done an excellent job with creating music for POTC. I didn’t miss the traditional POTC movie or ride themes as neither have a pinball vibe to it. The music that David has come up with for POTC has that pinball touch and yet still feels like music from the Pirates of the Caribbean universe. As I mentioned in the rules section of this write up I did notice unique audio for each of the games modes that I played. I don't think there's 125 custom tracks for all 125 modes (that would be kinda insane and may take 20 years to create, haha) but there could very well be a unique audio track assigned to the 25 modes that get randomly chosen each game.
Other Notes: Just a note about the powder coat on the games armor. The powder coat has a nice textured feel to it. This is pretty cool as it kinda makes me think of what the texture on a canon would feel like.
Overall POTC by JJP is fun and engaging game and one that I look forward to getting into my home as soon as possible. $8500 - $9500 is a ton of money to spend on a pinball machine. In the high end end pinball market I honestly feel that JJP is offering the most value with POTC. The amount of work going into the games software, rules, animations and music is matched only by other games JJP has done in my opinion. The design alone and all of the games interactive toys add a lot of value to this game already but its the software that brings the design and toys to life. With this title I feel like I'm getting 3-5x the amount code compared to most non JJP games.
Quoted from daudioguy:
Here is how it works: Every character has their own musical theme. When a chapter starts the music will be the character tune of one of the characters involved in the chapter. We keep track of when the character tunes were last used and we choose the one least recently played. If you play enough games eventually you will hear all the character tunes.
Each movie's multiball has its own music, each movie's Wizard mode has its own music. There is a background for Tortuga enabled as well a multiball enabled. There is a tune for Arrrrr Frenzy.
It is safe to say that there is a fair amount of custom pirate music in JJP's Pirates of the Caribbean.
Very cool, sounds awesome. Thanks David!
On the most recent Straight Down the Middle YouTube episode Greg and Zach mentioned that at TPF they learned that on the CE the entire armor would be encased in barnacles for production games. Sounds like there's at least a few things changing between now and production games. On an earlier episode they mentioned something about sails on the Black Pearl for production games that are currently not on prototypes. We also have yet to see the LE topper.
I wouldn't be surprised if getting ramped up for production is taking longer then expected due to the amount of stuff in POTC and JJP wanting to make sure they get everything right. Too many new games are released with issues and then need replacement parts, fix kits, hell even replacement fields. I much rather JJP take a few extra months (plus code will be even further along) to get everything right then rush the game out. Personally I think POTC is the most loaded pin ever created with the deepest ruleset every created and that the wait will be well worth it in the end for buyers.
The animated rule cards in the latest game build are a nice touch and cool use of the apron LCD. It's the extra touches like below that will make the wait well worth it.
Quoted from screaminr:
No one who owns it will ever look at the compass (how do they show the top loop) I hope they show more of the back screen - the map and video clips
I think it would just point in that direction, or maybe the arrow will turn, lol. With the screen being by the apron it should be pretty easy to glance at during play and notice where the most valuable shot on the playfield is.
Quoted from bgwilly31:
I pre ordered over a month ago. Was told I would be within the first 15 and would receive by christmas. Ended up ordering through flip n out. Where I was within the first 10. And he was under the understanding his customers would be receiving their machines mid summer. At the time he had not heard of anything as late as Xmas.
For some reason jjp has been silent for over 2 weeks. Maybe a new reveal is coming. Deadflip is up to something as well. However I suspect that could be spooky related.
Yeah no live stream in a couple weeks but maybe JJP is waiting to show an updated prototype and / or code that is further along.
I'm thinking there hasn't been a live stream or any updates these past two weeks due to the Midwest Gaming Classic being held this coming weekend. With Stern making a big push with Iron Maiden there I wouldn't be surprised if we hear some new information about Pirates out of the show.
Has anyone else noticed how there's little choreography with the games modes and multiballs? While a quick video clip or animation (for multiballs) plays at the start of a mode that's it. I'm not sure if this is due to JJP not being able to use actor voice and actor video or if additional elements for modes are to be added (I hope).
Right now all of the multiballs feel very similar with a unique opening animation playing for each. There doesn't appear to be other unique animations or sounds that make each multiball or mode unique. For example what is in the game to make "On Stranger Tides" multiball feel like that movie? Right now I just see hit inner loops for jackpots on screen. There doesn't appear to be any choreography that advances the story similar to Lord of the Rings and Hobbit or other objective based games that progress through a themes story.
I hope that some more video clips that don't feature the actors are added to the games modes, at least for multiballs and mini wizard modes.
Quoted from KingBW:
Eric told me last weekend that more light show enhancements, videos, and polish would continue to be added even after production starts, but it will ship with 1.0 code at minimum. I'll post some more info later tonight.
Thanks! Appreciate the info, that's great to hear.
Quoted from Zavadoza:
I thought we were playing pinball, not watching a screen. Do you want a longer animation when there's mutliple balls on the pf?
Choreography in regards to pinball modes include the animations, video clips, sound effects and music that make up a mode and the placement / timing of each within the mode.
Imagine Fellowship of the Ring multiball in LOTR without the intro animations, no DMD animations when you hit the shots to save the characters, no unique sound effects. That's mode choreography and it helps bring a theme to life to the player.
Posting this here as well.
I just heard in the first few seconds of Kanedas latest pinball podcast that Eric asked him to postpone, the podcast had been scheduled for Monday morning apparently. Kaneda said that JJP "is clearly going through damage control and figuring out their next move".
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