This sure did get off-topic for many posts.
On Toy Story, I agree with TheLaw. I was not a super fan when the movie came out. My kids loved it and are in their late 20s. My wife also loved the movies. It's a golden ticket family approval for me already ... if JJP keeps up their innovative ideas with it, quality, and depth of modes. Harry Potter would be the same situation - my 26 year old daughter would buy that if I don't. She's already declaring inheritance dibs on it just on the wild speculation wish list theme.
It "looks like" the JJP 4 reveal will be on Thursday 10/12 at 8:30PM if it is at EXPO. I wonder if they will bring multiple "playable" games like they did with DI last year. I hope so.
Toy Story 4 was delayed until June 2019. Wild speculated rumors is that a JJP Toy Story pin would be put on hold for that release also. No inside info that I know, just what other threads have speculated. That would make sense (or more dollars).
Quoted from konghusker:
I have zero issues with JJP wanting to be a family friendly lineup company. There are plenty of other companies and options for adult oriented games. The jjp lineup at this early point is already stellar, and if potc and toy story are next, that's one heck of great collection IMO. I do understand some guys not being interested in some of those Family themes, but again, other options exist thankfully.
I think it is smart. Higher end pins "usually" need buy-in from the spouse. If the kids (adult kids or young kids) are on board with getting the pin too, it is a easier sell for HUO. If the theme is also a baby boomer era theme it can attract more business on location. POTC, Toy Story, & Harry Potter fit that demographic. Toy Story & Harry Potter would be even more attractive because those themes have not been done before. However ... my wife & I never saw the Hobbit movie, we played the pin, loved it, highly entertained with the theatrical and mode intense game play. We bought the pin, then watched the movie and figured out some of the pin from the storyline. DI we did not care for the theme. It has grown on us as a really fun pin to play on location. Now the JJP #4 pin will determine if we wait for it, or get a DI ... and maybe a JJP 4 later. Can't wait to see the JJP #4 reveal.
It's more about what "insiders" reveal as licenses they think JJP has, then what the same insiders say is not the next one. Unsubstantiated rumors were that Toy Story was delayed because of the movie delay (and an insider saying it is not the "next" pin), and no insider saying a single word or making any comment on the POTC rumor (along with that deleted post a while back). It might not be POTC. Whatever it is, I hope it plays great like the other JJP pins.
I only read through about 500 of the 1500 posts that happened during expo so forgive the repeat if someone has mentioned this already. I asked one JJP person at the reveal when JJPOTC production would start. They replied late in the first quarter - likely late March. The next day (Saturday) I asked Eric himself while he was signing something for me and he stated that he will start to place part orders next month (November) for production in January. He was not wishy-washy with that statement and stated it as fact. Parts sometimes get delayed though ...
He also said that machines would go out soon for onsite testing just like DI did.
Just inputting some info here that I heard first hand from the designer himself.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
I've been watching some more gameplay videos and did notice that video clips from the movies are in the game. I was wondering if JJP had the rights to use video assets, good to see they do! It's still a bummer that none of the voices can be used but I think the video clips along with custom speech by Kevin McNally will work well.
Also, what a cool hidden shot behind the upper left flipper!
Here is our video. Not much excitement in my wife's game, but it is real fun to play. Maybe because it is just new, but it has that "I want to figure this deep code game out" feel to it ... one more time.
Quoted from jonesjb:
Any videos of the cannon being loaded and fired? I can’t tell where the shot is and where it shoots too.
The cannon loads from the upper playfield upper LH corner. Not sure how it is qualified, but a green insert lights up for it. Then you have to time the tipping right to shoot it into a ship at the upper LH corner of the playfield to get the jackpot. I saw someone do that at the expo reveal and Eric was there and pretty excited to see someone accomplish that. I don't know of any video of it, but I did see it. There were a few people with phone cameras recording that game, so "someone" has some footage of it.
Quoted from ltd73:
You should come to Level 257 and try them both out!
I just may swing by as I pass through the area (half hour out of our way on a pin fetching trip) on Feb 9th. Man is that real tempting ... ridiculous to just play a pinball game ... but oh sooo tempting. If I tell my wife, we'll be making a detour.
Quoted from ltd73:
Half hour isnt so bad, they have really high end yuppie bowling alley food so you can have dinner there. Think of how many people are going all the way to Texas to play Pirates. Then remeber that you get to play Houdini for the bonus. Oh, and there usually isn't anybody there so NO LINES...
Quoted from fuseholder:
It’s a good detour. Food is good. It will be worth it as pirates is a top notch pin.
You guys twisted my arm enough ... didn't take much to nudge me. I mentioned it to my wife and now I have to find a hotel in the area as we are going to turn it into an "adventure" for the night. Maybe Kieth or Eric will show up to check on it and explain the game play a bit. I wont hold my breath on that though. My wife (& I) have this pin on our radar, currently a "maybe", so this might help us to make a decision. A good side "adventure".
My wife and I went to level 257 during/after the big snow storm last Friday - what crazy 6.5 hour drive. Level 257 is a fantastic place, but wont side track this thread with those details. We played about 8 games of JJPOTC and Eric showed up to tweak a few things. He gave us an overview and tutorial that was REALLY enlightening on some of the game features, progression, and a few strategies. We played a couple of games with him before he had to leave. He did not have a super good game (according to him), but even after another 15 - 20 more games that my wife & I played, we still did not beat his score but we were right behind him on the daily high scores (see photo). We are just mediocre players so we helped to bring down his stat for average ball time. We played it before at expo and we were undecided. After Eric's tutorial, it made a lot more sense and after you play it knowing those things, it flows better in your reactions for shots and call outs. You can really tell that Eric (and the rest of the JJP crew) are putting a lot of effort into this pin. It's great to see that. I highly advise that you watch Eric's JJP Live show (or hopefully a video that we can re-visit) and do that before you play the game. Then give the game at least 10 plays trying different things they mention before you pass judgement. I made the cannon shot to the other ship once and that was sooo cool.
Quoted from KingPinGames:
I would disagree with this. The ball times SEEM long because you have 3 top players (that designed, built and programmed the game) playing it. I am by no means a great player (maybe good) and my average ball time seems to be in the 1-2 minute time frame, making a game 3-4 minutes. Could that change once I learn more about the game, surely? Make sure you get a chance to play it when you can and then let us know if you still feel the same.
I totally agree with KingPinGames and experienced the same thing for 30 or so games my wife & I played at level 257. We maybe only had 3 or 4 balls last longer than 3 minutes with a multiball, but no longer than 8 minutes. I hope to eventually be able to get longer ball times. It's a tough game that can be setup even tougher or a little easier with game settings and the right out lane ball save post rubber sleeves as mentioned in the video. The code and game progression is pretty deep, so if you are a great tournament level player, you could get to see some of the deeper modes in the progression. Initially the way it is setup at level 257 is too hard to fully enjoy the pin, but JJP is testing out the stats for a default or recommended game settings for locations. Locations are driving for 3 minute average ball times. I'd want 5 minute average ball times for home use for us average players.
Like everyone keeps saying ... give it about 10 plays before you make a judgment. Watch the JJP Live and SDTM videos before you play.
Quoted from Eskaybee:
I don’t know why so many people are hung up on video footage. Is it because of Hobbit? Cause that’s a totally different game in itself, support JJP and buy that if you want video footage in your collection. Me personally, video footage on the display is one of my least cares about assets. The display should thrive on scoring, progression and rules IMO.
If movie clips and stop n go Pinball really is your thing then I can respect that. But don’t get too tunnel vision on it. $8500 doesn’t buy you stop n go movie footage; it gets you a world of Pinball magic that Eric, Keefer, Joe, JP, and David bring to life.
I have a Hobbit and really love it, but agree with you. The movie clips and such are great/fantastic for bystanders, but during the game I rarely look up. The book LCD gets most of my attention for instruction when I do look up. I'm guessing that the same would be true for JJPOTC in that our secondary focus will be on the apron screen instead of the large backbox screen ... unless there is a stop and go action that warrants looking up to see what the heck they want me to do next.
Quoted from Eskaybee:
Anyone have any new news or updates at what’s going on at the factory? New design mechs? Production updates? Etc...?
I'm going to speak up just because I think it is morally the right thing to do since people are making purchasing decisions on REAL expensive toys here. I had a conversation with Eric last week and let's just say that whoever started the "end of summer" rumor led people down the wrong path and isn't valid. Maybe they asked if they ordered then (TPF time frame), when would they get their pin or something like that. JJP and for that matter even Stern don't really try to publicly pinpoint when pins will go into production. We've seen production dates usually slip from all pin manufacturers for whatever reasons. That's likely why no one from JJP has responded on timing in this thread. Do not believe everything you read on pinside, verify the rumor yourself if you can.
I will start a unsubstantiated counter-rumor that you will see some production line changeover photos from JJP near the end of May. Usually production starts after that. Who knows timing may slip, but end of summer was never correct per Eric. DO NOT believe me as pinside rumors are just rumors. Eric will be at MGC next week, ask him yourself and see if the end of summer production START timing ever had any validity. He will probably at least be able to tell you "no" to that. Hopefully this helps with people making purchasing decisions. Depending on where you are on the pre-order list will likely be a bigger factor on when you would get your pin.
Again - don't believe me or anyone else that isn't a JJP employee on JJPOTC production start dates as rumors are just rumors, and stuff happens that could delay things.
Quoted from bgwilly31:
Ive talked to 3 distributors. 2 said summer delivery. One said he would expect it around christmas. And the one that said xmas. Is a large distributor.
However like i said ive watched maybe every video/interview there is online. And early videos were saying spring delivery. Then that changed to summer, in recent videos. Havent heard directly anything past summer except from that one distributor. And now that guys post above.
They were likely all correct with their monthly allotment of machines if you asked, "If I order a pin today, when would I get it?" Preorders come first and if you haven't ordered yet, those are likely when one would become available in their pool of pins. The "start of production" will be way before the end of summer.
Let's go through this hypothetically. I'm guessing here and hopefully a distributor will correct where I'm wrong so that we as buyers all know. Let's say that JJP can hypothetically make 15 pins per day. That's 75 per week. Just for numbers sake, lets say 300 per month. Let's estimate that there are 10 distributors that all say they want the same number of 100 pins in their allotment that they will commit to (and probably put a deposit down on too). So that's 1000 pre-orders. To be fair, lets say JJP weighs each distributor equally and that JJP direct sales are considered to be one of the distributors. Each distributor would get about 30 pins per month and it would take more than 3 months to fill those orders. Now I'm sure some distributors commit to different numbers, so I'm just making a point here. Each distributor then has to fill those orders that they commit to. The more popular distributors might fill up their "spots" sooner than others.
When I pre-ordered my Hobbit direct from JJP, distributors had some available 10 months later available for immediate delivery. They would not steal other distributors pre-orders and would just tell you to wait for it if you wanted to "jump ship" and cancel the other preorder. I had to wait another 2 months for my JJP direct order.
So ... let's not spread rumors that JJP production will not "start" production until Christmas or even late summer. You have just basically confirmed for us that pre-orders placed today "could" be DELIVERED sometime between late summer and Christmas, depending on who you place your pre-order from. That is the current estimates from distributors. Is that a fair statement?
Quoted from indybru:
Thanks KingBW seems logical. So why I'm interested in getting this pin I'm not pre ordering and in no rush. I want it to be done right and as trouble free and my Woz and Hobbit.
So I will wait, there are several distributors I have in mind when the time comes and when they might have inventory. Also I'm able to play it at Level 257 in Schaumburg which is less than a half hour trip. I would get the LE. I'm with TRAMD post 3636.
My wife pretty much demands a JJPOTC (and I want one too) and for the last 2 years we bought each other a JJP pin for Christmas (well, Santa brought them for us). We hope that we can afford to do the same again this Christmas so we will be waiting also. It looks like I should probably start to think about putting my name on the waiting list though. We were at Level 257 last February and Eric showed up and gave us some instruction and played a couple of games with us - a great experience that sold us on it.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
Haha, awesome. Do you know if JJP is doing a seminar at MGC? Just wondering if we may hear about some updates for the game.
I don't think there are any seminars. But I will ask if I see someone from JJP there. Played about another 20 games or so on JJPOTC at Level 257 with no line. Love the game. We shot better after 3 strong drinks. Closed the place again. Very addictive and fun. The more you play it, the easier it is to understand what to shoot for and when you "should" press the lock bar button.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
Has anyone else noticed how there's little choreography with the games modes and multiballs? While a quick video clip or animation (for multiballs) plays at the start of a mode that's it. I'm not sure if this is due to JJP not being able to use actor voice and actor video or if additional elements for modes are to be added (I hope).
Right now all of the multiballs feel very similar with a unique opening animation playing for each. There doesn't appear to be other unique animations or sounds that make each multiball or mode unique. For example what is in the game to make "On Stranger Tides" multiball feel like that movie? Right now I just see hit inner loops for jackpots on screen. There doesn't appear to be any choreography that advances the story similar to Lord of the Rings and Hobbit or other objective based games that progress through a themes story.
I hope that some more video clips that don't feature the actors are added to the games modes, at least for multiballs and mini wizard modes.
Eric told me last weekend that more light show enhancements, videos, and polish would continue to be added even after production starts, but it will ship with 1.0 code at minimum. I'll post some more info later tonight.
There's a lot of angry people in Eric's update thread that I haven't caught up on yet, so I'll post a positive update here for those still interested in JJPOTC. I talked to Eric at the MGC show on Saturday and asked a few questions, so this info is as of then. Some of this may have been mentioned in some of the videos - I didn't watch all of those yet.
When I asked about production timing Eric told me that he will be going to NJ to help out with the production line changeover in May, hopefully shipping near the beginning of June. That is what he told me a few weeks ago too, so the estimated timing is still on track since then.
He told me the code would be version 1.0 at minimum (previously mentioned above). All of the modes and game progression will be there, all of the different character advantages will be complete. There would still be some enhancements to light shows, sounds, back box screen graphics/animations, etc that would follow. [I'm guessing it would be similar to where DI is now - just needs some animations, code tweaking, and adjustments here and there.]
Earlier in this thread there was some concern over the ball dropping down that far from the ship upper playfield. Eric said that thick Mylar would be in the drop zone on the playfield surface. There is a ledge under there on the right side where the ball starts to travel through the outer loop arc. The plastic piece on top of that ledge currently will be changed over to metal with a sticker on it.
I asked about the progressions of firing at the other ship on the playfield. There is a weighted value associated with it that is like a basketball 3 point shot. If you shoot into the ship to sink it, it is worth 3 units and multiball starts immediately. If you hit the side of the ship, it's worth 1 unit. After you get the first multiball, the next required units to start that multiball increases. Each time you achieve the ship multiball, the required units keep increasing and get harder to achieve.
I asked if the rocking ship ever changes rocking speeds. In production it will, currently in the prototypes it does not. Some modes will increase the rocking speed and make it even more challenging. The roll angle will increase and decrease with different modes or qualifiers also. The ship itself will have an adjustable linkage for the average tilt/roll angle in case there are variances in parts or builds so you can adjust it to your preference and dial it in. [or make it harder for those that think it is too easy - my input there]
For what it's worth to the angry people, Eric said that he is more disappointed than anyone about the discs. Like what he said in the video, he wanted to make sure that people would not get a pinball machine that had a part that had issues that would need to be replaced.
Anyway ... just some info for those interested.
Quoted from pinballinreno:
Will this be before or after the Hobbit code enhancements that were promised?
A few weeks ago Ted said he was working on the next TH update. My personal unsubstantiated guess would be the update would be in June or maybe July while the JJPOTC starts up production - just a guess. Back then, Ted said the coders were waiting on some animations for DI. So who knows ... maybe the next DI update will be coming too.
My personal take on the discs is that I will wait and see how the production pins play. It would be cool if once they were spinning, an image would appear from the spinning motion. Anyway ... JJP did a great job on the pin ... bummer about the triple spinning discs. I liked those. The trunk at MGC was partially open and the physical ball lock was working just fine the 10+ times that I played it. A non issue for me - that was fine. As a matter of fact, I could see how many balls were locked in case I lost track. I'm not one of those angry people. Disappointed about the multiple discs, but not a show stopper yet. I hope JJP reduces the price to make it an easier decision at this point. Just my opinion.
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