(Topic ID: 191281)

Jjp 4- pirates of the Caribbean

By Georgeh

6 years ago


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  • 3,753 posts
  • 528 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Zampinator
  • Topic is favorited by 62 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

9 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #1932 Text from game flyer Posted by sevenrites (6 years ago)

Post #1973 Slide from presentation about code depth Posted by trunchbull (6 years ago)

Post #2036 Feature matrix and game photos side by side Posted by Guinnesstime (6 years ago)

Post #2066 Close up of animated topper Posted by cavalier88z24 (6 years ago)

Post #2075 Barnacle armor photos Posted by cavalier88z24 (6 years ago)

Post #2086 Close up photos of the playfield Posted by cavalier88z24 (6 years ago)

Post #2087 More close up photos Posted by cavalier88z24 (6 years ago)

Post #2099 Close up of screen on apron Posted by cavalier88z24 (6 years ago)

Post #2223 YouTube link for reveal stream Posted by KevInBuffalo (6 years ago)


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#2380 6 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Where exactly is the cannon on the upper playfield? And it shoots the at the ship in the top left corner? Looks like it needs to hit a hole in the side to count as a hit?

Canon is on left side of the tilting upper playfield (top right corner). It shots from right to left... trying to hit the target area of the boat that is in the upper left area of the cabinet. So you are trying to time the canon fire with the tilting of the PF...

#2409 6 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Where does all this Depp hate come from? Honest question.

He's newsworthy in the last 24months due to allegations of domestic abuse and claims of excessive behavior while being a diva.

#2584 6 years ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

I thought Stern had the rights to Disney themes or at least pretty firm ties.

No blanket deal like that. Just past experience, contacts, familiarity, etc. that goes a long way in licensing deals... which is why MR Sharpe can sell his services so easily. Stern has landed several more Disney titles... but does not have a Disney exclusive

#2826 6 years ago
Quoted from Vdrums:

I have posted this several times but I'll say it again. According to an interview I saw, woz was being sold at $6500 at introduction At A LOSS! This is a technique used sometimes in real estate to prime the pump and get customers and a reputation. I believe some game platforms have been sold at cost or less because they will make it up selling games.

It sold at a loss because they set the price before they really knew what they were doing.. and all the overruns and delays. Not as a means to create a beachhead or other strategy by selling under their normal pricing. They maintained their price point as a matter of principle for the pre-order people.. and promptly raised their prices for people who didn't buy in early when reality started to hit. The LE features were the carrot for early buyers... the discounted pricing was more about ignorance than strategy.

When the price was set it was way beyond at prices at the time. But because he was able to sell the idea before people even knew the game, he was able to validate his 'premium product at a premium price' model.

They were losing money because they were a startup.. and they knew all along game #1 wouldn't be enough to make it all back. But the delays and overruns put him way further in the hole than they had hoped.

#2851 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

So you are really buying this shit that JJP's manufacturing costs go up by $500 every single release? Really. So Jacks manufacturing costs go up per game as fast as it took bally/williams to increase prices over 8 years.

If only your costs were what is in the box...

Unlike your paper theories of economics, JJP has to manage the real bank account... I think it's pretty foolish to think you really know what their actual operational costs look like, their actual revenue, or their obligations... and then ridiculously stupid to compare it to an industry giant from nearly 30 years ago.

10
#2859 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

i've done purchasing for companies for years, and did them for companies that made parts for bally/williams in both metal fabrication and printing. I know a lot about what it costs to make what in the pinball world. Stuff it not as expensive to make when you are buying in bulk from a manufacturing perspective. It's not like buying from pinball life/marco/bay area. You guys look at these sites and assume manufacturers pay close to those prices. that is not the case. When you are making 1000's of games, the price for parts, assembly, programming and such drop significantly and only gets less when more games are made.

I didn't say anything about material costs... because honestly in the grand scheme its not likely what is JJP's choke point. You are bashing them from what you think is 300% profit margin (absurd.. but lets table that for a minute). JJP has effectively one revenue stream.. games shipping. That is the biggest constraint... they can't make revenue appear for games that aren't sold. Unlike a WMS that has lots of revenue streams and different divisions floating the boat... JJP has got a single stream. JJP does not have a diverse inventory of product to sell. It has to make EVERYTHING to live on... from shipping the titles it has. That means they can't live on the same kinds of margins a WMS could live on... nevermind the order of magnitude difference in volume of units. Less units, less diverse product base == you must have much higher margins per unit to even stay in the black.

Now add in that they are slow turning product around = that's higher development cost per title. Again, more pressure to require a higher margin per unit.

That's why all this comparison to what WMS did is stupid - JJP isn't like WMS. What were acceptable margins to WMS is irrelevant to JJP.

I doubt JJP is able yet to really leverage economies of scale - they were cash strapped and volume is still questionable. The last thing you need when you are managing cash flows is 1-2 years worth of inventory anchoring you down.

As to your insight into actual BOM costs.. who is comparing to retail here? We have plenty of data points of other manufacturers trying to squeeze as much as they can from the system too.

Is JJP per unit margins higher than Stern? Probably... is that greed? Not likely, they need that higher per unit because they don't have the volume or cost efficiencies that your comparison companies do.

#2900 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

secondary market should have no bearing on current game manufacturing. Nothing. When they are done making a title and off to something else, they could give a shit what they sell for, they are hyping up their current runs. Nothing to do with anything. Just showing that from 2003-2007 seems companies were doing just fine without a $500 price increase for every damn game they made. B/W didn't do it, and stern didn't do it, until JJP entered the picture.

Secondary market is very much an important factor. It is an indicator of the strength of the buyer market... how much money is flowing. It's why people get into businesses like replacement parts and value-add products.

Stern wasn't doing ok 2003-2007. What JJP proved to Stern was they didn't understand the market anymore.

When companies learn they are under pricing their product - they will adapt and raise ASPs. That's what Stern has been doing.

You are basically arguing for status quo because in a different time and at a different place... people didn't change. That is horrible business strategy

#2964 6 years ago

I don't think the comparisons to the prior revisions really holds up well.

RRWoZ was done because they need to drive a higher price point and spur new sales (Product had been in front of customer way too long since introduction... RR gave it a fresh new boost).

Hobbit editions were done to add more pricing options.. and then the arrow version was trying to save lagging sales with another attempt at 'scarcity' - when it really was a closeout (I think).

DI didn't do this... they simply tweaked the design after the initial reveal.

If POTC is well received... they're will be no reason to make other editions... except like in the RR case where years later you may want to 'reboot' an existing design.

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