For me it is maybe a positive thing that not too much is used from the movies. In this way it could become a more general Pirates theme that can stand the test of time better than just something heavily leaning on the POTC theme.

I think of it like this: younger people nowadays do not know much about Elvira or what it stands for. That may be also true for younger people in several years regarding POTC. But they all will know pirates, just as they will know knights and dragons.

Also this frees the creative people at JJP to make it the best pirates theme they can and seeing what they did with previous games I am sure that I will not be dissapointed.

Having said that, I do feel that the title would be great to be in there, just because it is so awesome and really fits the pirate theme and it is timeless. No doubt however that David Thiel will do an amazing job with or without it.

Yep, even just adding that one song into the game would make a HUGE difference. Still, confident in jjp. I'm anxious to learn more about rules and objectives.

If Jersey Jack thought a generic pirate machine was the the way to go I’m sure that is what we would have.

Potc is right up there with Star Wars and Indy.

I’m hopeful they will get the main song. I can see it being a great exhilarating tune to shoot pinball to and with a nice light show would be great!

People will pay 9-13k, and just did for an unlicensed original theme only trusting the designers vision.
The POTC license isn't like having SW. I think JJP can and will work around it.
As usual, you have to enjoy playing it to drop this kind of scratch.

That would be true (and might have happened) if most of the pinball crowd wasn't so hung up on a theme. A theme just sells because people know it. JJP has learned that with Dialed In. That is one great pinball machine but many people just discard it on behalf of the theme. Would the theme have been Sim City or something that is known worldwide many more people would gravitate to it.

I had the best example of that right here in my house as I had a friend over which did not care for DI at all. He was not even interested in playing it, but as he was here he of course did play it and kept playing it for some time. Now a week later he has one on order.

We should all remember that Medieval Madness is also themeless. Would somebody dismiss a MM because of the theme ? I do not think so. But what they do not know they do not like.

Oh, there is no question people will pay for it...at first. The question is how many of these original buyers actually recognize that there is no franchise IP in the machine other than cabinet art pictures?

And, to certain buyers, POTC is indeed just as big as the Star Wars franchise. To some die hard Disney and Johnny Depp fans, it is much bigger. And Dialed In (fun though it is), is JJP's lowest selling pin to date as I understand it. (Not that it is a bad game, just that there are a lot of buyers who purchase pins based on themes and not overall gameplay.)

To be honest, I think there are going to be a lot of original buyers of this machine (primarily POTC fans) who (once they recognize there is no more POTC theme in this machine than in the $5,000 Stern version), are going to unload it pretty quick. My guess is there are going to be quite a few people who buy this machine primarily if not exclusively for its theme who are going be disappointed -- especially if they are used to JJP integration on the level of the Hobbit or WOZ with respect to licensed materials. In many ways, this POTC seems several steps backwards.

From my part, I am waiting to see what the final product actually is before I buy. If they find a way to integrate the theme well, then I will probably buy it. If not, then I will certainly pass. (I am just one of those buyers who wants theme integration in addition to gameplay.)

Maybe, but don't except hobbit 2nd prices...this one will be inline with wozrr depreciation...too much demand on this one.

Wow, did you even look 2 minutes at the game ??? On the playfield there is the rotating map from the movies, you can choose from 20 (!!) different characters that are prominently featured in the movies, there is a effing Black Pearl on the playfield, the Dead Mans Chest is there, many callouts are from a character that is in all of the POTC movies (and he has a great Pirate voice).

There is much more than only cabinet art to remind you of POTC.

edit: there is even Jack's compass in there, really working showing you your hearts most wanted desire

I think there are plenty of buyers new to pinball ownership that would and, in fact, do entirely dismiss MM simply because of its lack of an easily recognizable theme. Yes.

And, this is going to be the problem. For a lot of people who think they are getting a POTC machine with no POTC music, no Johnny Depp, no Geoffrey Rush, this could be a real disappointment.

I spent days looking at this...wanting to buy it actually because my teenage daughter is a HUGE POTC fan. I even showed it to her to get her take. Needless to say, she wasn't excited at all. In fact, she is the one who pointed out to me it was pretty lame there were no callouts from Johnny Depp or Geoffrey Rush and the music was not the easily recognizable theme song.

So, yeah, I will take that as a pretty good barometer that JJP didn't do near good enough with the theme on this one. (Of course, still holding out hope that what was seen at the expo was still very premature.)

(And, to be fair, I not a big fan of the new Stern Star Wars either, but at least they had enough common sense to put in the original music and score from John Williams. To a lot of fan buyers, that is going to be critical and I can't help that -- unless JJP fixes this, they will miss the mark.)

Ok fair enough, but I do think there is more in the machine than just the cabinet art

Agreed. I am exaggerating a little.

To be fair the latest releases from Stern and JJP are disappointing.

Both GOTG and POTC have zero call outs from the movies.

With prices as they are, it is getting easier and easier just to sit back and watch these games develop.

Then when code is done and HUO price is 20% cheaper, maybe buy.

Sorry, but as a distributor I can tell you that this statement applies to you and maybe a small group, but not a lot.

Yep. This is my thought exactly. With no call outs from the films, no clips showing actor's faces, and no theme songs from the films, my thought is there are going to be a LOT of disappointed original buyers of these machines come this time next year. Enough you might just get one for much cheaper in a year from now.

Personally, I still hope that POTC is only half-baked and that JJP will add additional call outs, clips, music and video prior to initial release.

I’m going to throw Stern a dog bone here, I think they had a lot of negative feedback not having those old classic tunes not in the game. Big part of the movies and I give them a some credit for making it happen.

Certainly hoping that some of you are right and people are going to dump these after a short time. That will maybe give me a chance at getting one. I played it over the weekend at Free Play Florida and loved the gameplay. I had considerably more fun playing that that the GOTG that was there (which was pretty fun by itself, but felt too formulaic).

JJP absolutely made the right call. You're acting like there isn't call-outs and movie clips of actors' faces because of a lack of "effort" or some kind of poorly-thought-out error of judgement when, in reality, there is a limited amount of money that can go towards developing a pinball machine and they thought very carefully about how to spend it. Now, they can put that money towards purchasing the license of a song or two, or call-outs from another B-grade actor (Depp is likely too expensive and simply out of the question), maybe even get someone else's face up on the LCD or...they can put the deck of a freakin' ship on the playfield which rocks with the motion of the sea and shoots a pinball into another ship and has teeny-tiny little lanterns on it which flicker just like real lanterns do.

Fact is, they chose to put the money into developing and making real interactive physical objects from the movie and not into overpriced 2D clips, call-outs, or music, all elements you can get elsewhere. Yes, they chose pinball and I, for one, applaud that decision.

That's funny.

I have a quick question. With this new operating system, could it be possible to swap out a sound file that had the original movie music? Now it has been years since I have programmed. But when I did, we put sound files in a specific directory and tapped them upon need. Not sure if it is still done this way or not anymore though.

WAY back when, someone actually modified the sound bite that Willy says on "IJ". The one where she says "I HATE YOU AND I HATE THE WATER". I had small kids at the time and one of my kids was parroting that phrase. So I threw it out to the newgroup and before I knew it, someone sent me a ROM with the modified sound. Seems like if you can do it to a ROM chip, you could do it on a new platform? I could be talking WAY out of my league though!

No.

LTG : )

No but you Could download the soundtrack off iTunes and play it in the background via an ipod!

Which I’m surprised they don’t use the Bluetooth feature for...instead of letting you flip your flippers, what about feeding your own music through via Bluetooth, but keeping call outs layered above the music? Brilliant.

I really do not get why there is so much resistance from the license holders. When companies such as JJP and Stern buy these licenses they do there best to honor the theme. Spending tons of money trying to create an amazing pinball machine for all to enjoy. Not many people really pay attention to all of the red tape people put infront of the designers. You would think it's easy all of the stuff is right there tons of movies that consist of sound effects . music . video clips and more. Wrong! They pay for a license and have to fight for everything. They have to make other people feel important and get there approval when in most cases they have little to no knowledge in making a pinball machine. We need to give more credit to the designers that work really hard to make these games we enjoy. Music.. No Music.. Real Actors or Paid voice actors. At the end of the day they pull it off. JJPOTC will be great!

If I were an operator with pins in high-traffic, high turnover areas (e.g. an arcade at Myrtle Beach), I'd be shopping for pins based on theme alone. I'd want the shiniest, most recognizable package possible. However, if I had a route with a high number of 'regulars' I'd buy the highest content, most challenging games that entice you to play it just one more time. As a HUer, I want the later. But then again, I think I am different from many on here in that while I can get immersed into a game, it is always the gameplay, not the theme. Pinball machines just don't give me that VR, first person....I am Indiana Jones...sensation.

I spent a little time re-watching parts of the Expo streams of JJPOTC. I understand the "original motion picture" score is not being used, but the music sounds pretty darn close (the STDM stream had a portion where they turned up the volume and put the cell phone closer to the speaker). If you actually listen to the main Pirates theme (which is only heavily used in the first film, because a different composer--Hans Zimmer--took over for the other films) it only has a short portion of upbeat "adventure" music. The rest is a lot softer. And this is true for most main themes...look at Star Wars for instance. It starts off big and strong, but then has portions of Leah's theme and such and then ends strong again. I think the music will be just fine on this game. I for one am actually really happy about how JJP is doing things given the recent GOTG unveiling. Instead of putting out a half-baked game that is going to sit for months until fully coded, JJP is going to put their games out at Expos and locations for playing and feedback WHILE it is being constantly updated. And then, once people have played it and watched it develop, they will be available for purchase fully coded and likely with some fixes/tweaks. I, for one, prefer this. So sick of hearing how JJP screwed up their release by showing it too early. I think Dialed In sold so well because people had the chance to play it, review it, and see it mature in the wild BEFORE having to make the decision to purchase. That way, we all know what we are buying. Congrats JJP!!! Just wish they were less expensive so I could own them all.

I can't speak to the licensing process as I don't do that. I am subject to what my client gets and doesn't get.
I know what the market wants. I will not violate copyright to get there. However there are lots of properties rhythm, orchestration, genre that are not copyrightable. So I call what I do 'channeling' where I create a new original piece that evokes the same kind of feeling as the work that inspired it.
This is my second rodeo on this genre. I did a lot of research the first time around. It is eleven years since I created that body of work. I am a much better writer and orchestrator than I was then.

The other thing to take into consideration is that the music is being created with pinball in mind. From any given soundtrack there are a lot of evocative tracks which are not suitable to be used behind pinball action or in an arcade.

It is just a little frustrating that no matter what I do it will be rejected because it is not the music from the film. I get it. I am a big fan of several of the Klaus Badelt music cues from the first movie.

JPOTC is turning out to be a great pinball game and I am trying to do it justice. I hope lots of players will have many enjoyable hours playing it.

ddt

This is exciting to hear, and I'm sure we're all very excited to see what magic you make for this game. Keep up the great work jjp team.

I think a lot of us who follow your work “get it” too.
I think others will be blown away when they see your talents integrated into this project.
Thank you for the efforts, can’t wait!!

Thank you. We apreciate all of your hard work. Game looks and sounds amazing!!!!

Honestly David 95% of us think you are brilliant and your collective work is outstanding. You find a way to make scores more pinball friendly and all your work in machines feels smooth and finished.

Buy a Black Rose ?

ZERO worries here....your work is stellar, as will be this pin!!!!

Of all the things to be worried about on this game, music most definitely isn’t it. Mr Thiel shall make it spectacular as he always does. Voice clips on the other hand...that’s something I’m interested to see how it gets worked around.

the imprint of the original music in the consciousnesses is such that it will be indeed difficult to erase the small disappointment of not having it.
it does not detract from the quality of your work

I'm glad there's no character faces plastered over the playfield. Glad no callouts either. Makes the game more attractive to me.

Game looks great but there are a few characters faces. ?

20171125_102248 (resized).jpg

Exactly. I'm more concerned/curious on the direction Keefer takes the ruleset. He's a genius and I have no doubt he'll deliver something special; and i really look forward to seeing his stacking rules in this game. But, rewatching videos; it seems almost everyone was shooting the ball up the middle or onto the black pearl pf. It really made the game look limited in shots. Hoping Keith can spread out the shots nicely. Also, I like the black pearl mini pf, but I am concerned to how it feels in person - with every ramp shot feeding that pf, I hope it doesn't feel like TFLE or too monotonous. Wife really wants this pin. Overall, I think jjp has a real winner here.

Buy it quickly... before she wants a new purse & shoes instead.

Buy the pin and the purse and the shoes. You got a good woman there. Mine couldn’t care less about pinball. But she’s got other excellent qualities...

Hell, I just bought her an iwatch3. Shoes + purse can wait, it’s time for a Pinball next

This game feels like Woz. For my taste, no winner (but not a looser either)
All the vids shows the same to shoot on this mini playfield. It feels monotonous as you said, boring.
The 2 ramps are slow ones as one is feeding the mini playfield and other a « whirlpool » (but I like the diverter In ramp)

I definitely will need to play before I buy; but I’m a huge fan of WOZ. I owned it for a few months on finished code - it’s definitely a contender for my personal top 5 of all pins. I get surprised when I hear people don’t like it who have a lot of plays on it and the typical answer I get when I ask them why is that they had owned it on the early stages. So they never got to really see what this pin can do unfortunately.

That said, I really hope Keefer can get this code at a more complete state than he did for WOZ and Hobbit.

Not sure about the reference to WOZ here. From what I've read, The Hobbit is not yet complete, but WOZ is. Did you misspeak?

Do you not think Woz is deep and complete SKB? I haven't honestly played mine enough on the newer code to know.

As for the POTCCE i'm getting, the only issue i have with it right now is the METAL right ramp. It looks so out of place, I'm assuming artwork will at least cover it up.

I’m sorry what I meant was I hope he gets it more complete quicker. Took what...2 years or so to get WOZ where it is now after it was released. I know a lot of that was new JJP platform and programming all its logicistics. So I’m hoping and anticipating that JPOTC will be more complete sooner than The other titles.

It’s going to be interesting to see what happens with JJP code as they release more and more titles. I hope they invest in a sufficient number of programmers to not leave games incomplete for too long like Stern. We’ve had it good so far in comparison, but producing more games requires more people to code the newer titles while finishing and polishing the older ones. I, for one, can wait a bit as long as there is a commitment to steady progress and relative completion within a reasonable time frame.

Ahemm, and don't forget that bland CE coin door...... Let's not let them off the hook at this price. We Need that to match the hardware Please!!!!

Good thing the right ramp is plastic then, huh?...What makes you think it's metal?