(Topic ID: 326355)

Jet lag, Tryptophan, getting older…any sleep tips

By curban

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Methos
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    #1 1 year ago

    Well…here it is 3:48am, the day after Thanksgiving, and I’m wide awake and posting on Pinside.

    I got back Sunday at noon from a 10 day work trip to India where sleep schedule was…let’s say “intermittent at best”. I used to recover from jet lag in a day, but as I’m getting deeper into my 50’s I’m struggling to get back into a normal sleep routine more and more. I try forcing myself to stay up til a ‘normal’ (for me) bed time after 10pm, but then I wake up again 4hrs later.

    Yesterday’s Tryptophan (turkey dinner) pretty much knocked me out right after main meal at 1pm and then again when we heated leftovers in the evening.

    A couple of beers & some wine, oddly enough, also aren’t helping.

    Anyway…any one else struggling with this…any suggestions of what works / doesn’t? …maybe a 3:48am post is the wrong time to post for successful ideas for how to help sleep cycles…oh well, what else am I going to do at this hour.

    #2 1 year ago

    Alcohol actually disrupts sleep. It's a depressant, so it will initially make you feel sleepy. But as your body metabolizes the alcohol and clears it from your blood, you are left with sleep difficulties. It's as if with the depressant no longer in your system, your body rebounds and wakes you back up.

    So, first thing I'd say is cut back on the alcohol. Completely, if you can manage that.

    Beyond that, being of a similar age, I'd say there aren't really any magic bullets. Long-term, the best thing is to learn what works for you. But there are some things that are probably consistent across most people, or at least those who have more trouble sleeping (my wife seems to be able to just drop off whenever...some people are just like that):

    1) Avoid mentally arousing activities in the hour or two before bedtime. Nothing worse than getting into bed before your brain has slowed down.
    2) Avoid food, and especially any sort of carbs, in the hours before bedtime. For me, I try to avoid eating anything at least four hours before I go to bed, and an even bigger gap works better. And avoid large meals, since they can keep you feeling overly full for many more hours.
    3) Stay cool. Your body temp will naturally decrease during sleep, but you can help things by lowering the heat and letting the room cool off, and by not having too many blankets.
    4) Stick to a regular schedule. Of course, you know all too well that's not always possible, but when your schedule gets screwed up, you just need to force yourself to get back to it as soon as you can. Even if you can't sleep well, get up at your regular time and try very hard to stay awake all day. Limit naps to 20-30 minutes at the most. And yes, being older seems to make this take more days. Sorry.

    I'll note that while there's a general advice about avoiding "screens", this seems to be based on the idea that blue light keeps you awake. I don't know if that's true or not, but I do try to avoid bright lights before bedtime, and I use the "night light" features on my laptop and phone. I have a hard time avoiding using my laptop before bedtime, but the phone is easy. I almost never use that thing anyway.

    That said, I think a lot of what makes the "screens" bad is that it often involves mentally arousing activities. Things that force your brain to engage. I've found that sometimes if all I'm doing is watching some TV show, especially one that's not scary, that's not a problem for getting to sleep later. Simple comedies seem to work especially well, but even regular old dramatic/sci-fi stuff seems fine too. It's when I haven't put down a really interesting project until late at night that I find my brain continuing to race and keep me up even though I've finally gotten into bed for some sleep.

    (Of course, many people resort to sleep-aid drugs. I guess if that works for you, and you don't mind taking them, that's another option. Me, I'd rather pay closer attention to my body's needs and work out a way to sleep better without the drugs.)

    #3 1 year ago

    Im in my mid 50s also. I'll second everything Pete said. Especially paying careful attention to what your body/brain needs vs. feeding it meds to comp for symptomatic issues. Only reason I'm up at this hour is from eating too much once a year cooking. What usually helps me disconnect is either force my brain into thought that is either very boring or extremely random. Wikipedia articles that I know nothing about nor have any interest in usually knocks me right out. Which I'm about to do in a minute to avoid engaging in other topics on this forum. Ex. Try reading an article about some 14th century monarchs you never heard of or read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. Snore.

    #4 1 year ago
    Quoted from pete_d:

    Alcohol actually disrupts sleep. It's a depressant, so it will initially make you feel sleepy. But as your body metabolizes the alcohol and clears it from your blood, you are left with sleep difficulties. It's as if with the depressant no longer in your system, your body rebounds and wakes you back up.
    So, first thing I'd say is cut back on the alcohol. Completely, if you can manage that.
    Beyond that, being of a similar age, I'd say there aren't really any magic bullets. Long-term, the best thing is to learn what works for you. But there are some things that are probably consistent across most people, or at least those who have more trouble sleeping (my wife seems to be able to just drop off whenever...some people are just like that):
    1) Avoid mentally arousing activities in the hour or two before bedtime. Nothing worse than getting into bed before your brain has slowed down.
    2) Avoid food, and especially any sort of carbs, in the hours before bedtime. For me, I try to avoid eating anything at least four hours before I go to bed, and an even bigger gap works better. And avoid large meals, since they can keep you feeling overly full for many more hours.
    3) Stay cool. Your body temp will naturally decrease during sleep, but you can help things by lowering the heat and letting the room cool off, and by not having too many blankets.
    4) Stick to a regular schedule. Of course, you know all too well that's not always possible, but when your schedule gets screwed up, you just need to force yourself to get back to it as soon as you can. Even if you can't sleep well, get up at your regular time and try very hard to stay awake all day. Limit naps to 20-30 minutes at the most. And yes, being older seems to make this take more days. Sorry.
    I'll note that while there's a general advice about avoiding "screens", this seems to be based on the idea that blue light keeps you awake. I don't know if that's true or not, but I do try to avoid bright lights before bedtime, and I use the "night light" features on my laptop and phone. I have a hard time avoiding using my laptop before bedtime, but the phone is easy. I almost never use that thing anyway.
    That said, I think a lot of what makes the "screens" bad is that it often involves mentally arousing activities. Things that force your brain to engage. I've found that sometimes if all I'm doing is watching some TV show, especially one that's not scary, that's not a problem for getting to sleep later. Simple comedies seem to work especially well, but even regular old dramatic/sci-fi stuff seems fine too. It's when I haven't put down a really interesting project until late at night that I find my brain continuing to race and keep me up even though I've finally gotten into bed for some sleep.
    (Of course, many people resort to sleep-aid drugs. I guess if that works for you, and you don't mind taking them, that's another option. Me, I'd rather pay closer attention to my body's needs and work out a way to sleep better without the drugs.)

    Great tips! Now I just need the self discipline to follow them!

    I guess my biggest problem is having a million things going through my head: family, work, pin-problem-solving, politics, to-do lists, etc. is there a cure for being “uptight”…damn, I wish I was as cool and carefree as I try to act! I thought the booze was supposed to take care of that, but now , for the first time in my life, I’m hearing that’s bad too! .

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from Malfeitor:

    Im in my mid 50s also. I'll second everything Pete said. Especially paying careful attention to what your body/brain needs vs. feeding it meds to comp for symptomatic issues. Only reason I'm up at this hour is from eating too much once a year cooking. What usually helps me disconnect is either force my brain into thought that is either very boring or extremely random. Wikipedia articles that I know nothing about nor have any interest in usually knocks me right out. Which I'm about to do in a minute to avoid engaging in other topics on this forum. Ex. Try reading an article about some 14th century monarchs you never heard of or read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. Snore.

    Yeah, meds are not an option. I thought reading the pinside forums would do the trick…but maybe all you guys are too entertaining.

    #6 1 year ago

    When you go 3-4 nights of no sleep a week you give in eventually.

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    #7 1 year ago

    Find a nice Indica to put you, "In da couch"!

    #8 1 year ago

    Pilot here. Jet lag takes time. Block out any daylight, keep your sleep environment cool and free of sudden/sharp noises. A fan or some type of white noise will help.

    No naps, lots of water. Engage your mind when awake, get light exercise whenever possible.

    If you cant get deep restorative sleep (8 hours),
    Then go 5-2-2. 5 sleep, 2 awake regardless, then 2 hours sleep.

    Good luck,

    Jim

    #9 1 year ago

    One thing I'll add to my list above: nutrition. This is related to the #2, food before bedtime, but is a more holistic issue. One of the factors I found really contributed to my own sleep problems was a poor diet. Too much processed foods, too many refined carbs (i.e. sugar), all that stuff makes it harder for me to sleep. When I'm eating home-cooked stuff made from raw ingredients (cookies, brownies, and cupcakes don't count, sorry ), I sleep much better.

    I like Michael Pollan's philosophy: "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.". Words literally to live by.

    Exercise is also an important factor. Find a way to exert some real physical effort at least part of the day. Just walking a few miles might be enough, but one way or the other, get your body worn out by the end of the day, so that sleep comes more naturally. Being physically fit will help in other ways too, making you more resilient to stress, and improving overall health.

    Quoted from curban:

    I guess my biggest problem is having a million things going through my head: family, work, pin-problem-solving, politics, to-do lists, etc. is there a cure for being “uptight”

    A common concern, to be sure. Pretty much par for the course for western civilization. IMHO, many if not most of the world's ills are a direct consequence of our high-stress lifestyle, which leads to sleep deprivation and poor judgment/decision-making. Lots of people flying off the handle, fighting with each other, etc. because they are too tired to consider less-hostile/violent options. But, enough of my ranting...you asked "is there a cure?"

    One word: "meditation".

    Mind you, that word describes a wide range of practices. Don't think it has to be all yoga, zen Buddhism, or whatever. It really just means taking control of your own thoughts. Anyone can do it, but it takes some practice. Teaching yourself to calm yourself and focus your thoughts on some specific, non-distracting, non-stressful "object" (which can be a physical object or just a mental, abstract concept), can help push those other things aside long enough to get to sleep.

    Quoted from mrm_4:

    When you go 3-4 nights of no sleep a week you give in eventually.

    You, maybe. And if you're happy that way, more power to you. No problem with that.

    But I went through about a five year high-stress period where I was getting almost no sleep almost every night, never found myself thinking "what I really need is to put some more chemicals into my body." Not everyone is a huge fan of modern pharmacopeia, at least not as the first go-to for every little problem.

    I'd get exhausted enough to get a halfway decent night of sleep every 5-7 days, and then the cycle would start again. Ironically, I finally started to get a handle on the stress and the sleep issues around the time the pandemic started. I guess I should've been more stressed out about that too, but by that point I think I'd subconsciously figured out I had bigger fish to fry, and started being able to take better control over my sleep patterns.

    It's a work in progress. I still have trouble some of the time. But I'd say most nights are pretty good these days, and when they aren't, I can usually point right at whatever it was I did that day that messed me up (usually working too late, up to or even past bedtime...I only let that happen very rarely though these days).

    #10 1 year ago

    Pete is spot on everywhere.

    I've recently started mediation or, "mindfulness" as some call it. Helps to mentally and physically relax.

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