Hey, I'm only guessing, and I trust you, just seemed that with who left at that time and everyone canceling their accounts at the same time that there was more to it.

Companies gotta do what they gotta do, I'm not saying they're wrong per se. But I know that I personally am sad that Keefer will not post here anymore. That dude has thick skin, he knows how to handle internet morons, and even outside of the JJP stuff he posted that was great he would sometimes drop some gems on old stories.

I know that I don't always color inside the lines here, and that's on me, but it's just too bad we can't have the people and characters from this industry that make it great stick around.

Well, when people can just be constructive with their criticism and not complete assholes, maybe they'll come back…in other words…never...

Most of the ones that made it great are already dead.

I kind of agree with this. My guess is TH and WoZ will be very special for that reason. I would think those pins might be unique in their value proposition. Hopefully not, but wouldn't be surprised if the pendulum swings back a little bit to balance the books better.

You can't blame them. Lots of people of pinside think it's OK to say anything and attack anyone because there is no consequences for their actions. 99.9% of the same assbags would be sucking up to Keith at a show.

It's pretty simple in the end. They don't need this site to sell games and it's not worth it. The same thing will happen with Spooky and Heighway if they make good games. They will find out that people are going to buy the games anyway and they don't have to deal with this nonsense. Just look at the RZ thread and you can already see how things are starting to change. I wish it wasn't that way but for the most part people are unreasonable and selfish when they are hiding behind a computer.

Uplifting sentiment!

Perhaps more moderation is necessary to weed out the asshats.

I personally hope JJP keeps the focus on deep pinball and not aim for the mass market with Dave and Busters type kiddee gambling machines. Bally did it in 2000, and from what I've read that may be what's happening here. I have no inside information, just speculation. I guess we'll find out when Lawlor's pin is revealed.

Thank you, Lloyd, for keeping it real around here. Lies, assumptions, baseless product reviews, competition bashing and false rumors are standard procedure around here. This is just one example and Aurich usually gets away with it. I hope Pinside is beginning to pay attention.

If JJP can bring a WOZ or TH type game to market each year perhaps they can be a successful and profitable company. Hopefully the new influx of cash allows them to speed up production of future games.

Even if JJP can put out one high end game a year they would still be losing out on the Stern pro customer base. Imagine if JJP could put out a couple $5k games a year with their display tech and regular code updates? That would have a huge affect on Stern pro sales.

As much as a lot of us want JJP to only make high end pins it may not be enough to keep them afloat in the long term. They should go after the $5k pro market while also building a high end pin in my opinion.

The other approach is like Stern to offer a few versions of each game as that's obviously working for them. JJP could again stand out by offering better display tech, toys / features and code support then Stern has in recent years.

161 posts and no cartwheels by Jersey Joe?!?

Yes.

When a business starts they tend to try to do everything for everyone. As they grow things get a lot busier and they have to start sacrificing things that they used to do for things that are now more important. If they make it to a point that they can consistently ship decent/good games pinside becomes pretty pointless. The information will make it to pinside with or without a presence on the forum and be discussed and beaten to death either way. Start ups will always be the ones present as they are trying to build business and need to be seen for sales to happen. If RZ goes well Spooky is pretty much past that point. As long as game three has a cool theme and looks good 300-600 or whatever # they choose to make will sell out without them having to say a word on pinside.

I completely agree on the deactivating your account. It seems childish and dumb. Just don't come to the site if you don't want to.

If you were a vendor of pinball machines, I'm not sure that would work. You would see nothing as a troll would rip you apart with every word you said. The troll you didn't see would be completely free to taunt you without you even being there to respond because they were ignored. I suspect that would be worse than leaving.

Cartwheelers have all been deactivated.

Well hell, then I will do one when they ship.

And I have never done one in my life (on purpose)

No doubt, in 5 years, we will all look back at WOZ and TH and still be amazed. I still have that feeling when I look at pinball 2000. It was so far ahead of its time when you consider the evolution of pinball and where we are now.

It's much easier to look back on now and enjoy it, but at the time it was a really really bad thing. It twas the end of days.

I remember when it came out. I was like "nice, but where's the new real pinball machine".

Yeah as I've said before, now it's like this cool other thing and it's interesting. At the time, this video representation of attack from mars (let's not even get into the shit pit SWe1 was) that wasn't anywhere near as good as AFM, and it was sitting right next to AFM. And Willaims was never going to make normal "real" pinball machines again.
It was kind of like some douche little wanna-be coming over and banging your ex right in front of you.

Sure it was ahead of it's time but it likely would have killed real pinball for a long time if production had continued. That is certainly not the case with JJP games.

Interesting point made about Pinball2000 had it continued, and thrived, it could very well have derailed pinball from the traditional style of tables we're all so familiar with. I think that's one of the things I love about Jersey Jack Pinball - they build in the traditional style, full of new innovations and enhancements, yet still make use out of tried and true mechanics and engineering.

Have you ever looked under the PF of a Pinball2000? Same tried and true B/W parts.

I don't see JJP being "full of new innovations and enhancements". All I see (that's new) is a very cool, high-resolution LCD display. OTOH, integrating a display WITH the gameplay experience is innovative.

I'm not saying Pinball2000 should have continued, but the hybrid approach to explore new ideas was very cool.

To be fair, JJP does have the most intense and immersive sound and display setup out there. And while an upper play field might not be unique to them, they crammed 2 of them into WOZ, one with 2 flippers and one with a flipper and spinning house. Then they have a few clever ball save features. The pop bumpers are disguised well as trees. The light show... Those types of things I think are innovative, or they have at least pushed the boundaries or capabilities of existing features and technologies quite a bit.

The Pinball2000 integrated display is amazing in itself, and with today's resolutions and increased technologies, it would be interesting to see another stab at something similar. I also think JJP has demonstrated they are capable of making it happen before any other current pinball manufacturer.

What I think would have helped pin2000 is if the 3D effects were not on all the time. Have it play like a normal pinball during regular game play then if you got a mode resume to 3D. Still fun game though with great forward thinking.

Awesome idea, I think that would have probably made it a lot better also now that you mention it. Then you get the best of both worlds.

Couldnt agree more.

Exactly! If you innovate too far you're just going to end up with a virtual pin.

I think JJP has done a great job with the WOZ. The Hobbit should also be a great game. I think this whole investor and management shake up is going to bring this company around. Jack had a great ideal here. But needs to bring in help with manufacturing/marketing. Looking forward to seeing many more games from then in the near future.

jjp_(resized).jpg

Those of you who stuck with your preorders should email and thank Jersey Joe for his contributions! He's no Jackass when it comes to getting things done!

Im really looking forward to pats game reveal.

I just read through four pages of this stuff, and no one answered this one simple question:

Can Jersey Joe beat the '96 Bulls?

I agree with lights and sound. Beyond that, there is nothing innovative in your list. Pop bumpers disguised? Data East disguised pop bumpers as nuke cooling towers...25 years ago. Upper playfield? 35 years ago on Solar Fire. Spinning House? How about spinning trunk, again, 25 years ago.

Yep, it is only innovative when compared to what Stern has released in the last decade.

They may not be innovative, but putting all of those things in a single game was very ambitious.

A few things that I don't remember seeing in other games.

Small video display in the Crystal Ball.
Built in headphone jack.
Audio output jack.

Oh Yeah??? It doesn't have a 3d boxing ring with punching and knocking down 3d articulated boxers, along with a referree to count them out. 66 years ago.

Got to spend time on the phone with Joe...really looking forward to the growth of Jjp.

Headphone jack was done on certain GnR models.

Futility. Neither side is going to convince the other side to like/dislike the pin... If you like it, great. If you don't, great. I think it's a very impressive pin, especially for the first release from a new mfg.

That's all fine and dandy, but did it have a video display in a crystal ball?

Joking aside, I would never argue that WOZ was the most innovative game in history. However, I might argue that they packed more stuff into that game than any other produced game in history, pushed previously used ideas further and had some innovation both over and under the hood.

And that's always been my problem with it. Packing that much crap can work, TZ, or it can fail badly, WWF. Packing stuff in just to say "look at all the stuff we have" doesn't always work.

The most essential thing about P2000 is the video targets. Splat an alien, pick up a missile, shrink a duck back to normal size. Until Multimorphic came along, it was the only game to put the video on the playfield with the ball. I know that Pinheads have voted with their wallets and RFM is a $2500 game, but I'm always baffled by this. I'm probably one of the few people to look at P2K and wonder what might have been.

On the other hand, I think the game turned out great and is very fun to play. That's what makes arguing about things like "fun" or which game is better difficult, as those aspects are purely subjective.

Thumbs up for "assbags". I'm gonna use that in place of "asshat" from now on.

And thanks to everyone in this thread contributing so that I could burn 15 minutes before a meeting.

There you go again with another jabbing comment! What a rude and insulting thing to say.

Well it's kind of true though.

Did Joe direct JJP staff to do the redesign after Expo 2014? No, he wasn't even in the picture back then. Jack has been around for the entire Hobbit development cycle while Joe has been with JJP for the last 5-10%.

Without Jack there wouldn't be a Hobbit let alone a redesigned one. Jack has accomplished a ton at JJP. If making pinball machines was easy a lot of other people would be doing it.

I wouldn't be calling the guy that made his first game (WOZ) more advanced and feature packed then anything the world's oldest and largest producer of arcade quality pinball machines has ever put out a jackass.

Relax buddy, I didn't call anyone a jackass.
But Jack is the one who approved the design of that initial hobbit that needed the art overhaul.

Headphone jack was actually done even earlier, in the early 80's by Zaccaria on Pinball Champ, but I guess it never caught on.