The new hobbit is just a color change and it costs the same as the existing LE so yes you are missing something. And it's not numbered either. You are way over thinking this. Options are a good thing. Buy the one you want.

There is absolutely no shortage of "LE" games from any manufacturer. Any LE of any type can be had usually for less than the original selling price on the secondary market. More options the better.

Meh

Not sure the Black Arrow is considered most or even desirable.

On the fence with this black arrow se / and LE Hobbit model or DI.
That's if I do anything.

Stern is coming out with VE's I like that idea. Love my woz and have great experience with jjp.

Ha, how's it any diff when stern says there making 30 see they can sell more and bump it to 80....

I have had nothing but a great experience with JJP. From speaking with Jen and Jack in ordering the pin as well as shipping. Worked well out of the box, and support from Lloyd and team has been fantastic. I have no issues getting a second pin from JJP in the future. Sorry to hear your experience wasn't the same.

With all the insanity going on I will never ever pre order or even buy right out of the gate. Wait and see, wait for the issues to get cleared up, wait for the nonsense of switching around models etc, and heck maybe even just wait and pick one up on the used market. The LE's NEVER really sell out. I picked up the much hyped Ghostbusters LE well after they were released when a vendor had a buyer back out. I picked up the sold out Medieval Madness LE remake from a vendor who had ones in stock. I picked up a Smaug LE back in July, again from a vendor that had them in stock, fresh with all the fixes. Why pre order? Everyone needs to stop supporting that crazy business practice.

The only real negative as far as I'm concerned is the terrible original light boards for WoZ. They are ALL defective and will fail prematurely, it's just a matter of when. Giving owners a price break on replacements is *ok*, but given that they knew/know of the problem because it was a bad day-1 design, they should just send out a new complete set of boards and you send your old boards back and are done with it. The onsie-twosie nickel and diming on bad-design-from-the-factory, but-just-took-time-to-die boards is nonsense.

But that's it. They're definitely giving a MUCH higher build quality and a huge LCD screen for about 15%-20% more price. Stern keeps raising prices while at the same time cutting corners on build quality. THAT sucks.

Oh and I picked up a really nice HUO The Walking Dead like 2 years after it came out with only 200 plays on it. I don't understand why people panic and buy these LE's the day they are announced.

So to summarise, Woz had some issues out of the box and you're upset that they keep releasing new versions of the same game.

Welcome to 2013.

If your going to delete your original opinion that started the thread I suggest you delete the thread too.

After all these years...

Paint is not what comes to mind when thinking about JJP business practices.

Besides they did this with the RR WOZ. Of course it would happen with Hobbit. Stern does it too.

Man 2011-2013 was absolute carnage. Brother against brother. Blood was spewing in the streets of pinside.

Paint aint shit for us tenured Pinsiders

You are a <1 yr member with an $8K machine. Are you a duplicate account?

Yep. Weak sauce.

Completely weak. It's like you painted the original post, but then along came one written in invisible ink. Bad business practices there Cdonnerusmc.

IBTL

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I think it's the same price as the standard edition actually. $8k. Also if you check JJP's website the cab art is different also.

LEs are stupid anyway. It's manufactured rarity unless there is something different in gameplay or software. So if they offer limited versions in different colors I don't give a hoot.

I suggest you perform your due diligence on what happened to the OP's original post. You'll discover things that may help your own posting in the future.

JJP doesn't gimp their games like stern. They said there will never be a gameplay difference only cosmetics. That is something I love.

Well Stern LEs are the same as Prems despite the art, so it's still manufactured rarity like JJP.

If you dont like how Jack runs his business then dont buy from him

all the threads on pinside wont make him shut down

Any new pinball manufacturer has production "teething" issues. Look to the past to understand the present or in this case the recent past. Even established manufacturers have issues during individual production titles. Gottlieb, Bally, Williams, AGC, Sega, Capcom, Zacarria, Inder, Bell, and Stern (2000s) all did.

If a person opts to place a down payment on a game from a new company (at the time of WoZ), wait two+ years, get a untested product due to lack of proper playtesting, and unfinished code, how many stones can a person throw or "friend of friend" three years later?

In many cases JJP made new owners situations "right" (note I did not say all), much better than can be said for now defunct older manufacturers due to concern over the private home owner market. The same cannot be said for WMS in the 1990s.

Consider this when you are concerned regarding the future of pinball manufacturers and making purchases of new game designs in today's market.

I have no problem with JJP. They literally sought out to make the best pinball machine ever made. Personally, I think they succeeded with WoZ. You have to like lots of toys and crowded playfields though. I don't have any issue with different releases and all. Without the pre order model, it simply would not have happened.

Jen has been very good to work with. I am not sure the new machine is for me. I may though get TH down the road. TBD.

I still say they are making the best machines available on the market today. They are innovating more than anyone. Now Stern is playing catchup. That is nothing short of amazing to me. To me JJP is a lot like Tesla. They came into a stagnant market and really shook things up.

Even on our boards, there are thousands of posts. JJP has been good for pinball. They set the bar higher. Unfortunately I fear that they may have set the prices too high. I hope they rethink their pricing model. I know a lot of folks that will not entertain their latest round of pricing. The market will respond to that. I think you will shortly see some "Dialed-In" machines "On SALE!".

my 2 cents...

Amen, carnage and blood in the streets! We survived it and came out the other better for it

I love Woz, always have, great quality, toys, rules etc

TH looks great too. Just turned out to not be the theme for me like Dialed In

I'm waiting to see how Toy Story turns out

It's great to have another quality option. And Jen and Lloyd are fantastic. Awesome customer service

The pendulum has swung back to Stern for me now from my Woz kool aid drinking days

And it's only because of the greatness of TWDLE and GBLE. GB is packed and stunning in person

The argument that JJP is making "better" pinball machines is pretty flimsy. At least on the way I judge them now

But whatever floats a boat, its all good times for Pinball!

JJP already took their beatings for the delays and missteps they took.

They showed up to expo this year with a very cool looking game and seemed to be a stronger company overall.

I think they've done well, kudos.

People just keep lining up to get screwed, that's the real problem.

JJP showed they weren't afraid to make profit by dicking around with LE owners (And frankly, I think people that buy into the artifical "limited edition" thing frankly deserve to get bent over... they're the ones standing there cheeks spread every time anything comes out and the prices are through the roof...over...and over...and over...)

I jumped on Hobbit preorder, but I remember something pissed me off and made me back out real fast. Believe it was that they wanted some ridiculous fee to reserve a specific LE number...like 250 bucks or something (Don't shoot me if the price is off..I'm freely admitting my memory is shaky here..). Whatever it was, I was so in disbelief that I pulled my preorder. Don't regret it at all. The worst part about JJP is that they're not even trying to be subtle about screwing buyers out of every last dollar possible. Ridiculous price hikes on games that have already been released, SE-WE-SWEAR-ITS-NOT-A-SECOND-LE hijinx, not clearcoating cabs but hey BUY SOME "rad-cals" for even more money, the list goes on and on, and there's too many schmucks for any logic to beat down. I'll never be a buyer for their games in primary markets. I don't like the way they do business, but that's my opinion.

That said...it only took like a week to get my refund on my deposit when I requested it, so not sure what the holdup was in your case.