(Topic ID: 239022)
Menifee, CA
Quoted from jrockne:I agree, American pinball and CGC are putting themselves in a good position. I own a MMrle and love it, I have not bought an american pinball game but really like what they are doing, and look forward to playing a Oktoberfest soon.
I am really excited for a Wonka pin, but at these prices, even though its a grail pin for me its a pass...
Wonka - North of 11.5K 90%
Quoted from delt31:Agreed but I think collectively jjp was crunching the numbers and said this POTC it's just too expensive as their bottom line was getting hurt worse than expected....
Its not that.. they had enough to build around 1000 potc ... it was slow go until the rumors started about them not making anymore after april. Now most are made and sold and there is no time to order more parts . So ybrwoz will keep them busy until wonka is revealed at which time they will be available shortly after for purchase. It will be nice to be able to get a jjp shortly after reveal. If there is demand for another 500 potc over the next 3 years than parts will be ordered and they will be made
Quoted from bigd1979:Its not that.. they had enough to build around 1000 potc ... it was slow go until the rumors started about them not making anymore after april. Now most are made and sold and there is no time to order more parts . So ybrwoz will keep them busy until wonka is revealed at which time they will be available shortly after for purchase. It will be nice to be able to get a jjp shortly after reveal. If there is demand for another 500 potc over the next 3 years than parts will be ordered and they will be made
nah....they didn't start a rumor to sell these games. There is more to it. It's cost.
Quoted from delt31:nah....they didn't start a rumor to sell these games. There is more to it. It's cost.
Didn't say they started rumor to sell more games.. but it helped the last few months. There are many reasons why they are doing what they are doing but its not all bc of potc cost. They wanna have Wonka ready to ship at the time of release...no point in ordering tons of parts for potc when 2 new releases are coming out this year and they want to ship them soon after reveal. It is what it is.. hoping the new titles are slam dunks which I'm sure they will be.. but at what cost lol.
Quoted from Beechwood:This begs the question... if non-pinball enthusiasts are the ones that will be buying them, why go to TPF. The large expense of travel and sending the game and multiple people there to unveil a game to pinball enthusiasts at a pinball enthusiast convention makes no sense, if they aren't targeting that demo. (I am not disagreeing with you, just trying to make sense of it)
This reveal is a head scratcher on so many levels.
To incite reactions like this thread. You can't buy this kind of publicity.
Quoted from Beechwood:This begs the question... if non-pinball enthusiasts are the ones that will be buying them, why go to TPF. The large expense of travel and sending the game and multiple people there to unveil a game to pinball enthusiasts at a pinball enthusiast convention makes no sense, if they aren't targeting that demo. (I am not disagreeing with you, just trying to make sense of it)
This reveal is a head scratcher on so many levels.
Because they would have a presence here even without a game reveal. Jjp had no convention space... they support their distributors to have space. Jack would have been here anyway as it's a top 4 show in the country... as well as other personalities to promote the business.
Ybr is not why JJP is at TPF. They are here because it's TPF
Melbourne
Quoted from cooked71:^^ this. Our local distributor claims he’s sold all 10 of his Australian allotment already at AUD$18000. Pretty sure that’s only pre-order deposits based on the rumours that have been going around for a while. Once he tells them the price I’m guessing many will bail. Of course he’s not going to tell them they’ve removed mechs, they’ll need to find that out for themselves. So unless they’re on pinball forums, or go to meets, they might not realize what’s missing. Or the distributor will tell them it was a troublesome mech and you’re better off without it.
more shit out of your mouth
we have had a waiting list for WOZ for over 2 years, the customers were told what the game was and what is and not included and the price
AND they don't care, they want the game
I know this...
*IF* WOZ was originally sold at an appropriate price point (and not at a price point which almost stopped them before they started), this reveal wouldn’t have this much...”attention.”
Personally, I LIKE the yellow...but agree with everyone, I “need” the monkey. It’s simply not the same without it.
Waiting on my MBrLE. It will be my FIRST pin and I’m excited about it...
Hopefully VERY soon...
...And I appreciate the tips on WOZ being available. I legit thought they were not available, anywhere and hence YBR.
I like ECLE the most. I simply like the green and it’s my birthstone. I guess the RR is superior? but those with ECLE don’t seem to concerned about it. I don’t believe I would be either.
I agree that YBR will sell (out) and unless YOU wanted one, I wouldn’t be so concerned that JJP is trying to take advantage if it improves their bottom line moving forward.
Yes. I hear you. Future reveals may be similar in price or *gasp* more, but you get what you pay for.
It’s pretty clear that JJP makes the most solid, quality pins money can buy.
Leeds
Quoted from cooked71:^^ this. Our local distributor claims he’s sold all 10 of his Australian allotment already at AUD$18000. Pretty sure that’s only pre-order deposits based on the rumours that have been going around for a while. Once he tells them the price I’m guessing many will bail. Of course he’s not going to tell them they’ve removed mechs, they’ll need to find that out for themselves. So unless they’re on pinball forums, or go to meets, they might not realize what’s missing. Or the distributor will tell them it was a troublesome mech and you’re better off without it.
Has it been a particularly hot summer in Australia ?
Quoted from Ballypinball:more shit out of your mouth
we have had a waiting list for WOZ for over 2 years, the customers were told what the game was and what is and not included and the price
AND they don't care, they want the game
Nice. And you’re the official JJP distributor? Your customer communication skills are a real asset. No doubt that’s why JJP chose you as their distributor.
Quoted from cooked71:Nice. And you’re the official JJP distributor? Your customer communication skills are a real asset. No doubt that’s why JJP chose you as their distributor.
Yes we do a good job of not selling to anal customers like you that complain about everything, a little scratch in a decal join?
I remember the I want a new Cabinet and extended 5 year Warranty,
I do what the manufacturers say, DON'T sell to this person as they can't build a game good enough to satisfy you. Not a JJP game by the way.
So stick to Sterns you can drive them Crazy.
I have said it in the past, some customers you just can't please and no amount of money is worth dealing with them.
We sell more games than any other Country in the World outside the USA with my lack of skills.
Just because we are Distributors doesn't mean we need to be talked to and ordered around, I am not your Wife!
Quoted from Ballypinball:Yes we do a good job of not selling to anal customers like you that complain about everything, a little scratch in a decal join?
I remember the I want a new Cabinet and extended 5 year Warranty,
I do what the manufacturers say, DON'T sell to this person as they can't build a game good enough to satisfy you. Not a JJP game by the way.
So stick to Sterns you can drive them Crazy.
I have said it in the past, some customers you just can't please and no amount of money is worth dealing with them.
We sell more games than any other Country in the World outside the USA with my lack of skills.
Just because we are Distributors doesn't mean we need to be talked to and ordered around, I am not your Wife!
OMFG. Wow.
Not even going to bother addressing the vitriolic crap in that post, but you really need to get some professional help. How the F are you still in business?
And the reason you sell more games than any other dealer is purely because you have no competition. If there was a choice of dealer for JJP or CGC in Australia, you would have zero business.
Quoted from Ballypinball:Yes we do a good job of not selling to anal customers like you that complain about everything, a little scratch in a decal join?
I remember the I want a new Cabinet and extended 5 year Warranty,
I do what the manufacturers say, DON'T sell to this person as they can't build a game good enough to satisfy you. Not a JJP game by the way.
So stick to Sterns you can drive them Crazy.
I have said it in the past, some customers you just can't please and no amount of money is worth dealing with them.
We sell more games than any other Country in the World outside the USA with my lack of skills.
Just because we are Distributors doesn't mean we need to be talked to and ordered around, I am not your Wife!
So you just want customers to keep their mouth shut when the game isn’t as advertised? Are you saying that JJP told you not to sell to a customer because they complained about a scratch on their game?
Doesn’t sound like jack or jjp to say anything remotely close to what you’re claiming. Glad I’m not jjp because I wouldn’t want to deal with you.
Quoted from cooked71:OMFG. Wow.
Not even going to bother addressing the vitriolic crap in that post, but you really need to get some professional help. How the F are you still in business?
By selling the games you reject to other people who see them as perfect
Now how many Games from AMD the Stern Agent have you rejected or complained about, Now be honest as I know the answer and it's not 0
Quoted from Ballypinball:By selling the games you reject to other people who see them as perfect
Now how many Games from AMD the Stern Agent have you rejected or complained about, Now be honest as I know the answer and it's not 0
Lol.
You could only dream to be as good a distributor as AMD.
Quoted from estrader:So you just want customers to keep their mouth shut when the game isn’t as advertised? Are you saying that JJP told you not to sell to a customer because they complained about a scratch on their game?
Doesn’t sound like jack or jjp to say anything remotely close to what you’re claiming. Glad I’m not jjp because I wouldn’t want to deal with you.
No, another Manufacturer not JJP, But as his standards are higher than the manufacturers, none can make a suitable game, however we have had issues with every game and every manufacturer game he has bought. small defect in shooter lane on a JJP game, small decal crack on a Chicago Gaming machine that comes to mind. Wanted New Playfield and a New Cabinet.
We replaced the playfield and refunded and returned the other Game, Both the playfield and Game sold same day and new customers very happy.
Quoted from rai:If Potc was a big hit I am sure they would make more (if there is more demand) getting a renewal should not be that difficult. I think it's a combination of PotC being very expensive and not a lot sold, I can't find one near me to play. So we can't play it easily and so not buying. I think maybe JJP is getting too carried away with hyper expensive pins $8500 is the cheapest edition.
Sure some can afford $8500 but a lot are more looking in the Stern pro-;premium price range.
I will say out of all my pins Woz is the best and most feature packed pin.
There’s a JJPPOTC at MOMs in College Park.
For the amount of money we pay for these machines now ....im on the side of the fence there should not be any "small" defects......
Quoted from cooked71:Lol.
You could only dream to be as good a distributor as AMD.
I notice you didn't answer the question!
AMD might put up with your crap to your face and that's great, hope it gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling, but your ears are burning when you leave.
Quoted from Ballypinball:I notice you didn't answer the question!
AMD might put up with your crap to your face and that's great, hope it gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling, but your ears are burning when you leave.
Didn’t answer your question because it’s none of your f*n business.
And since we’re talking about ears burning, let’s talk about how popular you are among collectors in this market.
Quoted from cooked71:Sold after re-decaling.
No redecaling required
Quoted from jetspeedb:For the amount of money we pay for these machines now ....im on the side of the fence there should not be any "small" defects......
I agree, But its how you deal with the Distributor, Treat people how you would like to be treated yourself
Quoted from cooked71:Didn’t answer your question because it’s none of your f*n business.
And since we’re talking about ears burning, let’s talk about how popular you are among collectors in this market.
Just giving people some transparency, That it's all Manufacturers of Pinball Machines you have problems with.
We have very few issues with Collectors in this market, we sell they buy
Quoted from alexanr1:OP end this thread, it’s turned into a pissing match between two aussies.
Yes Back on track, No more from Me
Just don't like people telling Lies to derail Manufacturers Sales
Quoted from westofrome:There’s a JJPPOTC at MOMs in College Park.
thanks for the tip. I spent my money on STLE and my tax bill wish I had know about this 2 months ago, I would like to check it out. Still an hour (plus) each way from me.
Quoted from stoptap:Has it been a particularly hot summer in Australia ?
Not recently but it does tend to go from one extreme to the other way too easily.
Quoted from ronlisa:Yes. That would have opened up a whole new group of buyers. These $11,000 plus pinball machine markets are going to dry up fast. I’m already drawing a line on Stern’s $9000 LE’s.
Why would you ever buy a Stern LE when they have a premium
Quoted from bigd1979:Its not that.. they had enough to build around 1000 potc ... it was slow go until the rumors started about them not making anymore after april. Now most are made and sold and there is no time to order more parts . So ybrwoz will keep them busy until wonka is revealed at which time they will be available shortly after for purchase. It will be nice to be able to get a jjp shortly after reveal. If there is demand for another 500 potc over the next 3 years than parts will be ordered and they will be made
151118171352-18-year-in-laughter-2015-super-169 (resized).jpgQuoted from JY64:Why would you ever buy a Stern LE when they have a premium
not sure if this is a trick question, but the LE can have better art (not always) but some may prefer the art (like on GB) or the LE may have features like STLE which had laser cut illuminated side rails and side head emblems and metal speaker panel. TBH STLE was one of the last LE that stands out.
Quoted from JY64:Why would you ever buy a Stern LE when they have a premium
The art.
I buy for the art as much as gameplay.
Thank God I don't live down under!!! Having to deal with a sour Dealer and pay those absolutely ridiculous prices,NO WAY!!!!
IMO if JJP wanted to sell *more* PotC the best thing they can do is to keep making them or make more in the future. If they are saying we are cutting bait (giving up) on POTC to me that is a signal that there is not much interest and they are just trying to get rid of whatever parts on hand.
If they have a real winner they will bring it back in production, the best example is Woz. Here we are 6 years on and they are still making Woz. It had a successful initial run followed by more editions like RR and now this.
Once they did the hard work (design and code the game) the rest (ordering parts and renewing the license) is easy work.
Point is if Potc doesn't get re-run it means there is not much demand. If as some people state it's one of the best games ever there will b more demand in the future.
Don't forget WOZ now costs only a thousand less than POTCCE.
I believe the rumour to hold water, there was no money in POTC SE and LE.
If it comes to a new run of POTC it it will be as a new Edition, hence they will start with new playfield art etc, and it will cost the by then established priced 11.5k
Not lack of demand, it most likely was lack of margin.
As Eric said yesterday, he put in as much as he could (get away with) and in the end Stern is making profit (no toys), JJP is not currently.
Quoted from rai:not sure if this is a trick question, but the LE can have better art (not always) but some may prefer the art (like on GB) or the LE may have features like STLE which had laser cut illuminated side rails and side head emblems and metal speaker panel. TBH STLE was one of the last LE that stands out.
Quoted from Mike_J:The art.
I buy for the art as much as gameplay.
Not a trick question I myself have never seen the value but if art means that muck to you go for it.
Quoted from JY64:Not a trick question I myself have never seen the value but if art means that muck to you go for it.
I have gone for it.
I bought Smaug, HUO, because it looks cool and was cheap. I’m not a fan of the gameplay. I did the same thing with Magneto.
Quoted from rai:not sure if this is a trick question, but the LE can have better art (not always) but some may prefer the art (like on GB) or the LE may have features like STLE which had laser cut illuminated side rails and side head emblems and metal speaker panel. TBH STLE was one of the last LE that stands out.
STLE is amazing, you chose well!
Quoted from DerGoetz:Don't forget WOZ now costs only a thousand less than POTCCE.
I believe the rumour to hold water, there was no money in POTC SE and LE.
If it comes to a new run of POTC it it will be as a new Edition, hence they will start with new playfield art etc, and it will cost the by then established priced 11.5k
Not lack of demand, it most likely was lack of margin.
As Eric said yesterday, he put in as much as he could (get away with) and in the end Stern is making profit (no toys), JJP is not currently.
Agree, POTC as well as Ruby Red WOZ may simply have not enough profit to sell them on average at $9500. To sell those level of games JJP may now need to charge $11,500+. Can the company survive off of $11,500 games alone? No.
Part of me feels like we are going to see a fundamental shift with game #5 and all new JJP pins moving forward. I wouldn't be surprised if we see new future JJP pins slightly stripped down (but with same code commitment and build quality) with multiple models (maybe $7k, $8k, $10k) to compete more head on with Stern. It just makes sense. The POTC, and WOZ's of the world are amazing but at the prices JJP is charging they are heavily limiting their customer base. I think there's a lot of pinball fans that out there that want to own a new JJP pin but just don't want to spend $10k+ on one.
Quoted from DerGoetz:Don't forget WOZ now costs only a thousand less than POTCCE.
I believe the rumour to hold water, there was no money in POTC SE and LE.
If it comes to a new run of POTC it it will be as a new Edition, hence they will start with new playfield art etc, and it will cost the by then established priced 11.5k
Not lack of demand, it most likely was lack of margin.
As Eric said yesterday, he put in as much as he could (get away with) and in the end Stern is making profit (no toys), JJP is not currently.
Except that POTCCE is the most packed of all the versions. This WOZ is the least packed of all even less than the standard version.
I can still give JJP the benefit of doubt on the pricing, buying parts in a small batch and setting up a production line for a little number does come more expensive. But taking out a toy is a mistake on many levels.
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