waiting for someone else to watch, and tell us if anything new....

Not much on WOZ, but interesting comments from Jack about building old Williams/Bally's titles as well as being the builder of Python's Pinball Circus as long as his backers(he mentioned Planetary Pinball) get the project together.

Originally I thought Python would design a new Circus machine for Jack.

Jack has an assembly line, Planetary has Williams license stuff.

Day could come where we might see new Pinball Circus machines around.

LTG : )

No thank you. It's a cool novelty game, but its really a one trick pony.

How do others feel about what Jack said about remaking any B/W titles?

What did he say?

Somebody making pinball machines and making somebody happy.

Works for me !

LTG : )

Yeah wow how good would that be. I had a great time playing this in PHOF: (bit dark I know)

http://www.pinsane.com/pinorama/machines/PC/index.shtml

Panorama of Pinball Circus when it was at my places for the Spring 2006 Pinball Circus.

LTG : )

I would prefer to see him concentrate on building all new games instead of remaking B/W titles, but It would make smart business sense to run games like Pinball Circus, MM, AFM, or CC in-between new titles to keep the factory humming along if there is any downtime between games. Currently Stern does this with older titles when there is demand. JJP doesn't have any older titles so why not build old B/W games if it's forced to choose between that and running the factory at less than 100%.

Aye, but what of the people that already own AFM, MM, and/or CC? If JJP has the intellectual property rights of Williams and can remake games that look and feel like an original Williams, one would have to wonder about what this might do to the demand and price of the original games. I can see the price swinging either way: maybe they go up if people still value an "original" Williams yet maybe the prices go down if they desire a new, perhaps more mechanically sounds game (via age) in the a "new" AFM, MM, or CC.

If they remake games, but enhance the rules it would be awesome!

Out with the old and in with new...."the dead just stink up the joint...."...Brian the bartender from Cocktail with Tom Cruise...

If you could buy a perfect NIB MM with color DMD, warranty, improved clear-coated cabinet, etc. for $7K that played identical to the original, why would anyone in their right mind buy an original beater MM for $10K or more? Prices would most assuredly go down on the originals. I still don't know if Jack would do this as he will likely be busy enough with "new" titles, but running old B/W titles where there is no R&D needed and for which all the parts would be readily available would allow Jack to pour some of those hefty profit margins into the development of new titles and keep the factory running at full capacity in between "new" titles.

I'm probably in the minority, but I own a MM and I would totally welcome the production of new MMs. I don't own mine as an investment, I own it because it's an awesome game. On top of that, now that I'm operating it I love that it earns so well. If they made new ones, especially if they were improved with JJP slide rails and other enhancements, I'd be the first in line to buy a couple more to put on location -- even if it meant hurting the value of the one I already have. The more people who get to enjoy great games, the better! Hoarding rare/expensive titles for bragging rights or in hopes of selling them for huge profits is lame.

Will be making room for a JJP MM as soon as it is announced.

Exactly. As I was intimating, then, people who own MM, AFM, and/or CC may not be so happy if their original Williams pins went down in price due to JJP trying to "cash in" on an existing title. Yet, I agree that if JJP is looking at this from mainly a business perspective, it could indeed make sense. It is all speculative, though, as only JJP knows what they may do.

Yep, I agree. But having a $13,000 MM drop to, say, $6,000-7000 after a potential re-release may not sit so well, even if one does not look at pins as investments (yet with any "investment" value comes and goes, why would pins be any different?).

A nice original will always be worth more to a true collector.

There will be plenty of super high quality MMs coming from Australia soon, so pick another title to wish for.

Had some really good conversation with Jack at SPF, and he's not looking back, but forward.
You won't see JJP building any old B/W Pins.

You never know...

I don't think you can build it for the cheap ! I think they would be 10.5 or more .

jim

WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIZARD BLOCK'S! Hm..... hey Chuck you out there? Is that why no more nucore

I would have loved to have seen a completed Wizards Blocks as I liked Pin2K.

Even if this ever goes to fruition, I seem to recall reading that there must be some slight differences between the Original MM and this reproduction due to copyright issues (if I recall correctly).

Wayne still retains the rights to remake MM.

Hmmm. I must be mistaken, then, as I thought it got sold to Planetary Pinball. I am sorry about that!

Good lord, why do people still not understand licensing rights and intellectual property law, in its most basic form? Why doesn't JJP just start building Deloreans and Hopkins & Allen firearms and making Star Wars movies, while they are at it? Hell, a ton of money could be made if JJP could start printing $100 bills and selling them for $20 - they should do that, too.

I have never claimed to be an expert in anything relating to law. As such, please let us know where I/we might have made an error (I mean this in all honesty as I am curious).

Wayne owns the rights to reproduce MM. Planetary owns much of the rest of the B/W catalog, subject to the licensing issues of licensed themes. What Planetary owns and to what degree is questioned by Gene at IPB. Gene has some of the patents, from his original purchase. Rumor is, and long has been, that there is litigation aplenty over these issues, between at least 2 of these parties.

When I ordered a MM from Wayne, there were 2 patents he was trying to get a work around on:

1. The ball trough
2. The plastic triangles on the ramps. 2 dollar part. I think that one of the work around on this was to include two triangles and I would have to install them myself.

That is only for MM. Gene would likely disagree about his rights being limited to these two issues on MM - he reproduces other MM parts and even PFs (or at least has in the past).

Yes, and the ball trough problem would be for all WPC-95 games. On your original point, your are right, JJP is not going to reproduce B/W games. I also emphasize with the wishful thinking of others as I had an order in at one point with Wayne.

I see. Thanks!

......And Now for Something Completely Different.....

great videos, and thanks for putting them up!

Jack himself said he has the rights to reproduce games in the B/W catalog... there may be issues with a game here and there, but it is what it is.

Guess I was right Lloyd! I told you I was a detective.

I am almost certain that any patents that they may still have from Williams are expired or are expiring in the next couple years.

I'd love to buy a NIB MM for 10k from JJP. Won't happen due to the complex IP issues. No one will risk a commercial trevor over IP to remake an old game.

Looks like.

I most humbly apologize for doubting you.

Of course I was going by what Python was talking about Sat. morning about 2am in the hall.

LTG : )

http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/5358243

I believe this ball trough patent expires in September 2013.

Cool videos. As I read more I am becoming a believer and want one of these machines. I believe that JJP will make Stern pins look like yesterday's overpriced garbage. On a side note did anyone else notice just how spazzy Jack got when posed some of the questions of the audience. I enjoy his enthusiasm but he might want to hide some of his feelings when addressing the collectors, after all they are the ones that will spin it as good or bad all over the Internet.

Why call other pins garbage? I do not think any pins are garbage. There are better words to use with a less negative feel.

Fair enough, that was a little exaggerated on my part. I don't think my point was missed though. But I do feel some pins are garbage. There are no titles you would rather throw in the trash than take up space in your home? I know there are some for me. As for MOST Stern pins I would not out them in that category.

Nope, never. Makes me sick thinking about them getting tossed off a roof. I would rather get it working and keep a cheap players pin on the street. I hate when pins get damaged beyond repair.

My words are being taking literally when they are not intended as such. It may just be my lingo that is different than yours.

Example: I am into the NBA. There are a number of players that I consider and often say are garbage. I do not literally consider them garbage. I am using the word garbage in these instances in place of not great, not good, pale in comparison etc.

Another example: when someone says something is dope it does not mean it is heroin, it is a strangely unfitting word for cool, yet many younger folks including myself use that word.

If someone gave me a pin that I did not like I would not throw it off the roof, I would give or sell it to someone that would enjoy it.

Point was that I personally would rather have hundreds b/w titles for the same amount of money than pretty much any of sterns titles. If JJp goes in the direction I believe they are going I think they will be the new machines (replacing b/w) that I would place before any other titles. I find the flippers and the feel of the game in b/w titles to be far superior to stern. JJP is taking b/w components and running with it making the Stern games feel even cheaper in comparison than the b/w already do. If I believe the games from 20 yes ago feel better built than stern and JJP is taking the flippers etc from these games of yesteryear and improving them, it's logical for me to think Stern will become even less desirable to me and maybe many others. If the price point is similar between JJP and Stern I think Stern will be forced to step-up game or they will be considered garbage in comparison.
I hate text as tone is often not interpreted the way you intend it to be and feelings or points are often misinterpreted.

lord gambit, you are really starting to go off the edge whenever a JJP thread comes up.

You need to lighten up. I liked you the way you were, BEFORE there ever was such a thing as Jersey Jack Pinball.

he didnt say that, he said this:

I know and understand your lingo but like you said, text does not show emotion. Any words that can be taken as bash one manufacturer over another is going to start a fight. I am just trying to keep this civil and head that stuff off. We are here to enjoy pins.

You are correct, he did say look like garbage, small difference but both paths still lead to a dark place in text.

No worries. I am not convinced though that we shouldn't say I like this manufacturer over this one or I like this pin better than the other. I am certain that is why we bother to post opinions to discuss and state how we feel. It seems this forum is part opinions, part information sharing, part tech support.

I am not trying to flame but it also does not seem that you were trying to put out a potential fire as you were disagreeing with me and posing questions. And that is what you should do, we are here to share and discuss.

With all of this said I respect and appreciate your time volunteered on this site. Thank you!