(Topic ID: 292168)

Haggis Pinball - 2nd game = Fathom + Fathom 2.0 confirmed

By FalconPunch

7 months ago

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#131 7 months ago

I'm struggling with accepting the "Haggis" branding on the backglass, head and apron... I understand the need for it, but for whatever reason I'm getting hung up on it. I've always referred to the game as a "Bally Fathom"... that's on me obviously as it's not like there are other Fathom's out there (Until now)

#222 7 months ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

I don't think anyone disputes this, but it also didn't have to necessarily have to be that way.
The Mermaid edition is roughly $1500 USD more. I think that adder is well justified over any base edition (regardless of base price) for upgraded trim, playfield components, surround sound, cab art, dual big screens, and undercab lighting. That's a darn good mod package and probably eats up most if not all of the $1500 premium.
But then one can wonder how much of this Mermaid adder went into the cost of developing, coding, animating, and testing an entire new ruleset. This had to take substantial time and money. But with the package already being justifiable at $1500 adder with everything else included, it now just looks like the base model is so expensive (and without the code) to subsidize the cost of the new code for the 250 limited games. Why spend $8K when $9500 gets exponentially more? If you're already that price-committed, Mermaid is the only model that makes sense. IMHO, the base should have it as an upgrade option because it now looks nowhere near as attractive as the Mermaid, and I'd really like to see these everywhere.

I agree with all of this with one exception... I wouldn't consider the screens used big by any standards... I do wonder what resolution they actually are as screen sizes that small are limited, hope the viewing angle is good on them! It looks good in the pictures.

#343 7 months ago
Quoted from rai:

Maybe you guys can help me out with this.
I’ve mostly played modern games the oldest pin I’ve owned was BOP. I’ve played some 70/80s pins but not a lot. I recently played Centaur and really liked that. But I’ve not played Fathom ever. But it’s something I’ve thought that I’d love to own because of its reputation and the art is great. But I’ve really been shy from buying old pins and love the new stuff (remakes) love AFM how it is old school but has modern touches. Now Fathom will have both old and new code that’s something I really love.
I’m asking if I should take the chance and order one never having played a Fathom. Now it’s rare so maybe if I don’t love it that’s not a huge deal to sell it.
I’m getting Alien and was thinking about a new Stern but that’s the same story, I can always get a Stern later they will run them for years, but the Fathom is super rare.
I guess my pros / cons
-Beautiful game (unlike the rest of my collection)
-Game is a classic (one of the better 80s games)
- Two sets of rules
-Never played it
-unknown new company
-Kind of expensive
I’m just curious especially for folks that have owned or played Fathom a lot if it’s a great game? Any advice? I’ve played Beatles and Whoa Nelly (not the biggest fan of Whoa Nelly but liked the Beatles more).

Fathom was the first game I owned about 20 years ago, sold it long ago and missed it. Had a chance to get another one a couple of years ago at half the price of this Haggis release and passed, deciding that modern games are just more fun to play for my tastes. Upon reading the news of this re-release on the weekend I was pretty convinced I’d be in at the right price point... but they missed the mark on that for me. I was in at Stern pro pricing if it included the 2.0 code. I’m sure they’ll sell their 250 units though, I wish them luck, I really do love the classic Bally’s.

#371 7 months ago

Just took a look at the majority of the Bally MPU AS-2518-35 games and sorted by average price from Pinside...

A couple of licensed titles at the top of that list... I'd consider Voltan an outlier, not too many people have had a chance to play that one, but you'd think their 5 released would be found in the top 10 of that list.

pasted_image (resized).png

Even with code re-writes on them... I'm hard pressed to think someone would want to spend their asking price on the Mermaid edition when the original version is a third of the price or less for most of these games.

#402 7 months ago
Quoted from tbutler6:

In the club. Are we locked in at the conversion previously of 8900 or whatever it is or is it subject to change?
Assume it may change, that true?

I'm going to guess the locked in price is the AUD price and things will fluctuate from there.

#514 7 months ago

I think the bottom line here is there is a "chance" that we may have a source for new remote controlled inline drop target assemblies and no one but Haggis actually knows whether they will work in the old Bally's, anything else is speculation at this point.

#516 7 months ago
Quoted from PPS:

We will figure that out, what the differences are, and how best to get supplied in the US for the restoration people ...

That is fantastic news! I don't know how many you will sell but that will make some people very excited to hear.

#572 7 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Is the cabinet lighting trying to do a water effect? Because that's a nice touch
Did anyone notice the standup to light the spinner and such is the wrong color? It's white in the photos and should be yellow.

Ya, someone else posted about that, but if we're posting about that, I'd also suggest I'd rather see white flipper bats and yellow rubbers on them... I'm going to guess there will be some modifications by some to get the look they want .

#573 7 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

I read earlier that if you purchased a Celts that you could choose the Haggis composite playfield or the original all wood playfield.
Did Haggis say if that was an option to choose for the Fathom as well?

No news on that front yet, assumptions being made are that it will be their "hard top" version based on the description provided by Haggis... I looked through the Facebook posts this morning and did not see the question asked... the other question I'd be curious to hear an answer on is whether the inserts will be white and jewelled or coloured and clear like they are in the prototype on the latest video. I was happy to see the correct colours being used in the video today as previous pictures had green and blue interchanging inserts on the bonus numbers and that was driving me crazy Unless the inserts are all clear and they can control the light colour, then I'm good!

#579 7 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

If the Mermaid edition is doing RGB insert lightning they have to be clear or opaque white, otherwise the color lenses would prevent effective RGB shows

Yet in the prototype they are not... so I remain curious to see what they do in production.

#607 7 months ago
Quoted from Aqua1122:

Order # 297. Congrats LamF! - they have to be close to selling out of the Mermaids you would think (if not already). I'm # 278, placed my order yesterday so I'm in the same boat. Haven't heard anything yet but hopefully soon.

Someone early on mentioned they were order 100 or something like that, so if it is orders from the beginning of time for Haggis and a number of those orders were two orders, one for membership and one for the game, they could still have a ways to go to sell out... I'm holding out, hoping it sells out before I succumb to the hype

#611 7 months ago
Quoted from Damonator:

The membership was only required to buy early. I think most of the order numbers over 100 were just for the MEs. I would guess they are over 200 sold at this point.

I don't think I'll make it through the weekend.... so hopefully you're right and this thing sells out soon!

1 week later
#824 6 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Here is my PayPal charge: Total $1,500.00 AUD
Here is my Credit Card charge: Total $1,212.46
There are no other associated charges on either of those accounts. Not sure what else I can say.

If PayPal brokered the deal I do not believe you will see another charge on your CC. If you entered your CC directly that is where you may see a settlement after the fact.

#857 6 months ago
Quoted from jorant:

The only game that I can see that is feasible with this price point in mind is Centaur.

Agreed, I was also hoping there would be more information released this week, more pictures or videos, or insight on the 2.0 code and details on the playfield inserts and alignment issues seen in the video. I remain on the fence right now and some of these things could push me closer to buying one... at this point if there is truly a hard cut off with the possibility of 250 not being made I imagine the people in at this point would be happy to see a smaller run to keep the value up.

It would also be nice if a Canadian distributor was used to help take away some of the mystery of future costs related to getting these games into Canada.

#894 6 months ago

A couple of questions about the playfield.

Will the alignment issues of the artwork as seen in the prototype be addressed? I understand there has always been some registration issues when using the original Bally artwork but given the opportunity to revisit the game I’m hoping the registration is better on the final version than what is seen in the prototype.

What type of lenses/inserts will be used? Clear on the prototype seems to show the lights when a jewelled/faceted or semi-opaque white may look better with the RGB lighting.

Will their be an option for a direct printed on wood option like Celts has?

Some more generic questions.

What’s up with a 5 speaker setup? Where are they all going to go? Original Fathom had one cabinet speaker and no speaker cutouts anywhere else’s I’m dying to see how you implemented it.

Any chance of getting a Canadian distributor involved for us Canucks? Would be nice to have a ‘shipping included’ price to Canada.

Game looks amazing, Fathom was the first pinball I ever owned, I’m still sitting on the fence but excited at the prospect of a new one.

#906 6 months ago

I’m going to get dinged with taxes, no half way about that… but knowing the game was coming from BC and I’d only be paying for shipping from Nitro to Ontario would be ideal. No brokerage charges, no inflated shipping costs from the US, one company to deal with… just seems smoother for me Even better would be PlayerOne in Toronto, I could pick up for ‘free’ from there!

#919 6 months ago
Quoted from Zukram:

Is that a viable option to deliver to a US location for our northern neighbors to come pick it up ? In any case I am fairly close for anyone Ontario/Ottawa... And have games on order already too.. Not sure what else would need to be worked out..

Right now it isn't an option with the boarders closed and no sign of them re-opening... but maybe come July they will be open again? I am curious to hear more from Haggis on the subject for sure.

#923 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Can't get to haggispinball.com?
Anyone else having this issue

It resolved for me.

#959 6 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Because I'm an engineer who spent many years learning the science behind it all combined with decades of practical experience in pinball, with access to some of the most diverse collections on this side of the planet...

Well... I guess that's objective... but you didn't have to brag about it! lol... totally kidding

#961 6 months ago
Quoted from Happy81724:

I haven’t been on in a while but has the mermaid sold out yet?

No sir! "There are not many left" was the update given this morning direct from Haggis.

#1001 6 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

And while I'm having a good old motherland whinge Lol ....
The other thing I would have probably thought about another way ... the coin door.
Is 4 pieces of angle ... and a hinge strip ... .... oh never mind. ha ha
I still bought it (deposit) even though I think the coin door looks horrible and clunky and out of place. There I said it.
I feel better now.

You're not wrong, I love the classic looking Bally coin door... I believe Fathom had the SBA sticker on it too.

#1049 6 months ago
Quoted from CubeSnake:

Haven't read thru this entire post, but I have a few questions:
1) How much (US) for Mermaid Edition shipped?
2) Where are these being shipped to?
3) What is the expected delivery date?
4) In the promo video, there is an '80's-style soundtrack in the background--is this the music that plays while in play? Can it be defeated via the menu options?
5) Is the backglass a translite or actual glass?
6) What is the warranty on this pin?
Thanks in advance!

1) unknown, the Haggis site charges in AUD so the price will fluctuate. LTG has posted approximate though
3) After July 1st. Production scheduled to start in July with a goal of 50 machines a month… one would assume they will wait to fill a container with all machines bound for the US so who knows when they’ll actually ship.
5)I haven’t read either way
6) warranty on the haggis website is quite lacking as the copy doesn’t represent what I think they sell…speaks of CD’s, VHS etc… weird… but it does say 30 days? https://haggispinball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=497

#1051 6 months ago
Quoted from Boof-Ed:

I think all that is about returns only. Nothing their about warranty.

Agree for sure.. just very little to find on the website and that’s the closest thing I found, it looks like it was just lifted off another website.

1 month later
#1361 4 months ago

I think you're breezing past the hidden costs that are involved with changing the build for what may be a low uptake. You need an artist to add artwork to an area that never had it, you need to update the CNC job to now exclude something that will need their CNC programmer, you need an engineer to redesign the lockdown bar mech and relocate the buttons. You better hope none of those people screw something up along the way that one offs inevitably introduce into a regular workflow.

I guess I'm saying it is way easier to say just don't cut the hole out and put some artwork on there and add some thumb screws then it is to actually implement it on a one-off or a low run basis. It just doesn't seem worth the effort if it's my business... with that said I think your odds of getting Haggis to do this is much higher than getting Stern or JJP to do it, they seem much more boutique and up for something like this.

I also think the desire for people to want to keep a coin door doesn't mean people aren't against change, that's a reach saying we want to crank our cars because we like the look of a coin door, does sound like a good argument to have over a pint though.

Edit: I'll give you a real world example of a one-off gone wrong. I bought a new construction house once, I didn't like the placement of the bathroom fixtures, towel rack, toilet paper holder to be exact. I asked them to please not install them. They said that will be $250 to NOT install them. I laughed and said you must be joking, I want you to NOT include something, this will SAVE you money, they said nope, it's $250 if you don't want them. I rolled my eyes, paid the money and moved on with my life. Fast forward 6 months later, we are doing our final walk through, guess what was installed in the washroom... the bathroom fixtures I PAID to not have installed! Now I know why they charge, cause they had to pay someone to take them out and patch the walls, sometimes removing something that was designed to be there costs more money to remove because people and process suck when you ask them to do something that isn't the norm.

#1363 4 months ago
Quoted from MrMikeman:

That. I was also trying to convey the fact that these machines aren't made to be enjoyed in homes. Their real purpose is to make money for operators. That's what they were designed for. You want it changed because you are not using it as intended. That was my main point. This isn't about being right or wrong.
If you put a pay phone in your gameroom will you complain that the manufacturer shouldn't put a coin slot on pay phones?

I don't know what the ratio is any longer, but I think it has shifted dramatically and the home market makes up a significant amount of the market, so much so that if there was enough demand I think even the big manufactures would consider the request if it thought it would help them sell more games! We know we've got one person in Oz ready to commit! There has to be more. The move would change your resale market for sure and I would think it would shrink your resale market, I offer no proof for this assumption

#1366 4 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

The thing that makes no sense is all the people arguing against the idea of someone else having something they don't want and won't get........

Well I don't want to make that argument .

Any of the current changes people can make to their pins... butter cabinets is a great example... are part of the plan... part of an agreed upon workflow, pulling the coin door isn't part of that plan (But it certainly can be!) so I think that is where the opportunity for people screwing it up comes in my mind and the costs we both agree are there and you're willing to pay in this instance wouldn't make the juice worth the squeeze to me.

I hope you get your cab without the coin door, I'd love to see what they did with the artwork there.

3 weeks later
#1461 4 months ago
Quoted from punkin:

I hereby apologise for my crime of altering a quote and making a joke that the other participant got.
Guess it's an aussie thing.
Sorry to those offended.

I got moderated once for doing the same thing! At least they're consistent

#1468 4 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Does anyone think Viking might make the 5?

I think Viking might for sure... I don't like the odds of Flash Gordon being made due to what I assume would be additional licensing requirements. The drop off of games I personally think will sell at this price point is really steep after Fathom and Centaur. Just one man's opinion of course.

#1474 4 months ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

EBD absolutely would .. (added - EK would too) .. but after that i agree theres a slope

My hesitation with EBD is that they just made so darn many of them... but ya... I agree that has to be on the shortlist for sure. I did an analysis earlier in this thread of the early 80's Bally's and their average price on pinside... (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jaws-by-haggis-pinball/page/8#post-6249966).

It's that insight that makes me at least believe the drop off is steep... if I can get an original EBD for $2,800 or a Haggis version for $9,000, that would have to be some pretty fancy 2.0 code to make me want to take that plunge. Maybe they don't make 250 of the other titles? Regardless, I hope they're super successful and I am excited to see the next ones on the list.

#1518 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Not on their youtube or Facebook page… so not sure which update that is…

The main content was in their last video they posted for sure... my memory of the video was they didn't say point blank "We will NOT start Fathom until August". It was more implied than a declaration... but I'm old and my memory is lousy, so maybe it did say that

2 months later
#1653 47 days ago
Quoted from simbob:

Folks, Melbourne, Australia - where Haggis is located- is still in the longest and strictest Covid lockdown that has happened anywhere on the planet. In about 3 weeks Melbourne will open up again and I would expect they can get things moving then. Cut them a little slack, I think they have done a great job so far in incredibly difficult circumstances.

From someone with no skin in the game I think Haggis continues to get loads and loads of slack. I'm certain I would have been more agitated if I had skin in the game. Communication is key and as long as those looking for updates are reaching out directly to Haggis and getting them then I think they're doing a good job keeping their customers informed. If customers aren't hearing back from them when they reach out privately and are only getting updates when Haggis post these videos then I think any thoughts shared to date in this thread are showing a remarkable amount of restraint.

#1659 47 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Just do the napkin math... they claim to have shipped roughly 25+ celts and claim they have another 20+ to go.
I think the bigger shocker is people expect them to 'switch to fathom' to mean 'start shipping games'. I think it's clear they
- Dont stock parts for their full runs up front
- Don't seem to be building sub assemblies for fathom yet
- Don't have finished fathom software to show off
- They love making cabinets first - which we haven't seen any of...
- Doesn't look like they have a ton of space for staging stuff...
So I would expect 'finishing celts' is going to lead to a long stall of 'starting fathom' before there is any fathoms going out the door.

And they have (Was it 9?) less people now to do that than they had before... which is understandable... cause pandemic... but add it to your list

#1693 42 days ago
Quoted from mtn-:

Haggis posts alot of interesting stuff from manufacturing on Instagram.

That was a killer update by them! Thanks for reminder, they really hadn't posted anything since May.


2 weeks later
#1707 26 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

Certainly has the Fathom layout but the original Fathom rollover the inserts are round with the the star rollover inside it. This appears they're cutting the star rollover into the pf itself. Interesting!

How are they going to light up the insert? I love the updates on instagram and nice to see progress on Fathom.

#1714 22 days ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

redesigned the rollover also. don't forget the cut out like a star is on the clear acrylic side . The wood has a hole , if that makes sense?

I see the error of my ways now... you nailed it, the picture posted isn't of the WOOD... it is of the ACRYLIC! So only the star portion being cut out is exactly what is expected! Ignore me I thought that picture was of the wood.

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