(Topic ID: 292168)

Haggis Pinball - 2nd game = Fathom + Fathom 2.0 confirmed

By FalconPunch

2 years ago


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Post #2953 March 2022 Video Update from Haggis with Fathom 2.0 Gameplay Posted by Micky (2 years ago)

Post #7094 Some news Posted by Grantman (63 days ago)

Post #7123 Follow-up email response from Damian Posted by Grantman (63 days ago)


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#2626 2 years ago

Every startup pinball company (with exception of Deeproot) is undercapitalized. The problem here is that even if they take the orders, even if they get deposits, it still doesn’t solve the capital shortfall. Gonna go to a bank with orders in hand ? Good luck, they only fund companies with 3 years of profitable books and only to the amount justified by the recorded profit. You get squeezed. All these orders, not enough capital to employ the people to make them or buy the parts. And so you fail. I am not saying Hagis will or will not fail here, I just understand their predicament quite well. Pre orders solve many problems for a young company but cause many others. And the lesson is no matter when you think you can deliver multiply it by 3-5X because you haven’t even begun to imagine the manufacturing challenges you face. I wish them good luck. And I don’t know why when we see these dilemmas arise time and again we act surprised. This is basic startup company 101, no matter the people, the industry, the product. It is in fact almost better to have no demand for your product initially so you can scale resources over time and achieve fixed capital expenses to lower marginal costs. Spooky did it right, but they also got a bit lucky in timing, people, demand, etc.

1 year later
#7473 45 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Sure seems like Haggis struggled with production... not enough space to do it right, not enough demand to afford to pay to keep it going, and then slowly choking themselves by trying to make it work without scale. It's an incredibly hard thing to do at low scale... and incredibly expensive thing to try to do at scale and wait for demand to catch up. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

I think this is the challenge of all startups that build something, not just pinball. It is exceedingly difficult early on to get scale and timing right, especially in bootstrap mode with no margin for error.

I don't think they have any responsibility to feed the pinside horde, but hopefully they are at least keeping good contact with those that have paid in full without machines yet in hand.

#7497 42 days ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I really don't get people's obsession with wanting constant social media updates. The funniest part about this is that not very long ago JJP was years behind holding deposits hostage waiting for an investor or new owner. They shut down all communication and stuck their head in the sand.
What do you guys want Daimon to post? A picture of him in a shop by himself holding a donation bag with the caption "please send money now, we are really fooked. Nobody is biting on the pay for your centaur requests and we need that $ to build the rest of the fathoms"
Posting is not going to change anything at this point. Either he gets the capital to move forward or someone buys the company or it's over. Either way I don't see this working out as the games cost too much and shipping is too high. Nobody is going to want to be 16K into a centaur remake. So, in my opinion this one is dead. Time will tell though. Facebook posts about what is happening will serve zero purpose.

One does wonder what his true breakeven point would have to be on current volume of orders. I suspect your $16K is not far off, and if so the thing was kinda doomed from the beginning unfortunately.

I’m surprised he can’t resort back to building 1 at a time in a garage somewhere like Celts. Yeah output is like 50 a year in that model, but at least it’s something. That would cut down labor costs dramatically and any inventory is a sunk cost at this point. One really only needs to recapitalize if a) he signed an unbreakable lease b) all his inventory is on credit c) he can’t even afford to pay himself as the only employee at the current build versus sales cost.

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