Boulder, CO
I can't believe some of you guys are hung up on the Haggis name.
Clan Haggis member #74 here and Mermaid Fathom was ordered first thing this morning.
(Topic ID: 292168)
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Quoted from surfnrg:I feel bad for those with originals. Guessing we'll see a few for sale this week.
I have an original and ordered the Mermaid edition without hesitation.
Quoted from rai:I don’t see the benefit of limiting the extra code to just 250 games.
JJP did a similar thing when they included an additional mech limited only to the GnR CE games.
Quoted from rotordave:I think it will play way faster.
- Plastic playfield, ball flies on those
- new modern 50v flippers
I think it’ll play fast as hell.
Better have some spare drops on hand!
rd
Great points and I'll enjoy it playing faster. I will also assume that the flipper power strength will be adjustable in the settings as is the norm these days.
Quoted from flynnibus:If they were to hit full steam on day 1... which is highly unlikely... first container probably wouldn’t land until likely sept. Hope for an xmas present
If Haggis starts running late with my deposit in, I'll just cut and paste comments here from the RAZA thread.
Quoted from rai:I’m asking if I should take the chance and order one never having played a Fathom.
Keep in mind this is now a hype thread and Fathom is the shiny new object standing directly in front of you.
In a short couple of weeks Stern is due to drop The Mandalorian and that will be the next shiny new thing we will all want. Meanwhile your deposit money here will be tied up for several months and waiting on updates before actual results can be a bit of a grind for some.
That said, GO TEAM HAGGIS!
Quoted from frankmac:Looks like 12 to go! Congratulations Haggis Pinball!!
I'm excited too but let's all slow down a bit. Invoice numbers often begin at the number 100 and sequentially go from there.
I was already a Clan Haggis member and ordered first thing I could on members only, opening day. My invoice number is #131
Quoted from tbutler6:If ya’ll want to take a look...i get it...different cab, different game...still looks neat!
Stuffing a cat in a plaid bag and torturing it is animal cruelty.
Quoted from Gritty:In for Mermaid edition!
Congrats. What is your game invoice number?
**It doesn't mean anything solid but I'm curious to track anyway. Lowest game order number I've seen so far in this thread is 107.
Quoted from ZMeny:I’m in! #14 babay. Let’s hope the topper doesn’t disappoint
Hey Zack. Can you explain this? No one has an invoice number below 100 and none of us have gotten our game numbers yet.
Whats up?
Quoted from gonzo73:Just a guess, Haggis contacted distributors first, and 100 or so are locked up by distributors.?
As far as I know Haggis is selling direct and shipping is through Planetary. And why didn't Zack answer DakotaMike when he asked him a day ago?
Also, I got my Clan membership before Fathom was even announced and my invoice number for that is #74. How did Zack get #14 in the time window *after* me and others?
My guess is that's his game number and if true it means a lot of low numbers were given out ahead of time to the pinball elites.
I'd like an explanation from Zack or someone before I speculate too much.
Quoted from tbutler6:Maybe he likes #14? Could be the number he picked. Mermaid peeps can pick numbers.
No numbers have been issued yet. None. Numbers can be requested but we've been told to wait.
Quoted from flynnibus:Or... did he buy into the package plan which allows him to hold his number???
Quoted from Mr68:No numbers have been issued yet. None. Numbers can be requested but we've been told to wait.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Or 68 , you go down on me and I owe you one✌️
Slow down there buckaroo. Why do you think I'm Mr. 68?
Quoted from Coindork:I’m stealing your line to use on my wife.
A smart man would turn that offer around and she would owe you one. 
Quoted from Pinzap:Just speculation… but buying the package of all 5 puts you to the front of the line for build order and delivery. It’s possible that it also puts you at the front of the line for number choice, in which case they’d wait til their 3 week order time period is up and start assigning numbers… with package purchasers getting assigned first. Also possible that they are waiting for previous Celts owners to have a chance to order (3 week order window). Again… just speculation.
I appreciate you qualifying your comment as speculation but no, that is not what Damian told me.
Everyone that buys a game can request a number at the time they place their order. If the number is available at the time they request it, it is allocate to them. My first several number choices were already taken. #01, #250, #13 have already been assigned. My fourth choice of #68 has just this morning been assigned to me.
Damian also told me that games will be manufactured in the order they were placed.
Clan Fathom #68
Quoted from wfumed2:Are you guys receiving confirmation on numbers via email?
Yes. My first notification after placing my order was this morning and I would guess they have a lot of people to get back to.
Quoted from Pinzap:I wonder if they’ll load them all in the same shipping container in the order they were placed also?
There was something about owners blood type and sperm count.
Quoted from LTG:I don't know all the details. You can joint the club, Clan Haggis - https://haggispinball.com/ looks like a one time fee and you get a bunch of goodies too.
LTG : )
Its an annual fee, Lloyd.
Quoted from gdonovan:I watched like 4 times, pity the flippers dont look to light up like Medusa. Maybe they do but not activated yet.
That raises an interesting question. What will our mod community come up with for this game?
I'm not much of a mod guy at all but there are a few that I enjoy and I appreciate the creativity.
Quoted from dr_nybble:Anyone else notice that Planetary shows under "New Items" both Fathom and Medusa bumper caps?
[quoted image]
Nice catch!!
Anything on Centaur?
Quoted from cooked71:I got an email back yesterday - confirmed not an option for any of the classic remakes. Hardtop only.
I think it’s important to view this project not as a remake trying to make it it as original as possible, but instead a new upgraded version of fathom. Better rules, flippers, lighting, sound, displays, bling. But still the classic Fathom layout and iconic art.
I agree and this is exactly what I want in this machine. Especially the bulletproof playfield. A lot of old school guys will turn their noses up at Fathom 2.0 for many reason but its all a positive for me.
I already saw someone say that Fathom 2.0 wont play the same or have the same feel. No shit. Just like JJP plays/feels differently than Stern. Just like Chicago Gaming play/feels differently than Bally Williams. American Pinball, P3, they all play/feel differently and are all fun.
Damain and his team have hit the sweet spot for me.
Quoted from TomKatt:I'm not going to claim to be an expert on these things, but I have concerns about the longevity of that acrylic PF...
There is nothing wrong with dissent and playing devil's advocate and it's good to question things. Because you quoted me I'll respond.
Quoted from TomKatt:I have no doubt the acrylic is hammer tough - they make security glass out of that material... But UV will yellow that over time and I personally think those PF's will look pretty hazy in a year or two of real play.
Haggis says in one of their videos the acrylic they are using will not yellow and I'm willing to go with them on that. Additionally, none of my games from any era or manufacturer is exposed to UV rays. The windows in my home are tinted for UV protection and the shades in my game room are always closed. I think most hobbyist protect their games in some fashion or another.
But let's pretend that my playfield has a disaster somehow. Normally you would have to strip the playfield, both on top and bottom and send it off to a professional at great expense and inconvenience. With Haggis I can purchase a replacement, remove the top side only (much like a thorough cleaning) remove the old top and install the new replacement. And it sure seems like I could do this with the playfield never being lifted and removed from the cabinet.
That's something I could do in less than a day. A typical playfield swap is beyond my capabilities/patience and I think that is true for most people. And I think I'd first try flame polishing the playfield similar to what I've done with ramps. That would be easy too.
Quoted from TomKatt:I was also going to comment that the ball probably travels a lot differently, but that would just be me being pedantic and modern pins are already a whole different thing than the old machines I love.
I don't think you're being pedantic and you raise a good thought. Here are a couple of quotes that I agree with along with one of my own.
Quoted from cooked71:I think it’s important to view this project not as a remake trying to make it it as original as possible, but instead a new upgraded version of fathom.
Quoted from Joydivision:you will find the game feels quite different, but it's still essentailly the same fun game with both - it doesn't suddenly not feel like a Fathom, what's key is the layout, the sounds (especially when the second level is reached) speech & multiball flow - when it all comes together.
I don't think new design mechs or other components will change that (in any negative way)
Quoted from Mr68:Just like JJP plays/feels differently than Stern. Just like Chicago Gaming play/feels differently than Bally Williams. American Pinball, P3, they all play/feel differently and are all fun.
Quoted from punkin:Tried to resist but failed. In for Mermaid.
Congrats. Mind sharing your invoice number?
Quoted from Pinchild:I joined out of respect
I'm kinda proud that I joined before it was cool. I didn't know that Fathom was coming but my instincts told me something worthwhile was happening there. I don't care about the swag, I just wanted to support new pinball in what I fondly consider a brother country.
And what put me over the top was Damian's gregarious video personna that reminds of a few great friends I've had over the years, all in one.
He needs a haircut but that's just me being jealous.
Quoted from Motorcitypinball:I had A feeling this was coming..... I just got a charge on my Credit card for foreign Transaction fee for $92.21.
Does anybody else have extra charges from processor?
Did you join Clan Haggis at the same time? That's a seperate charge and with the exchange rate that sounds about right.
Quoted from Motorcitypinball:I had A feeling this was coming..... I just got a charge on my Credit card for foreign Transaction fee for $92.21.
Does anybody else have extra charges from processor?
I just checked both my PayPal and the credit card that the charge directly passes through to. I have not been charged that transaction fee.
Quoted from roar:If PayPal brokered the deal I do not believe you will see another charge on your CC.
Yes sir, that's how it appears to me and what I've been trying to say.
Quoted from rotordave:PayPal factors their fees into their charges, and don’t tell you about it. They also give you a shitty exchange rate.
If you directly paid $1500 AUD in USD it would be $1167.
The cheapest way (believe me, I send a lot of dough!) is to do an international bank transfer. The cost is the exchange rate factor (usually a point or so) and generally a $15-20 bank fee, depending on the bank.
I use PayPal for low amounts as it’s easy and hassle free. But for anything over say $1000 ... bank transfer.
You’ll all want to set up bank transfers when it comes time to pay the balance. It will save you hundreds of dollars.
rd
[quoted image]
Now I'm on board. Many thanks Dave.
Quoted from DakotaMike:It's pretty quiet around here. Hoping for a big update from Haggis soon!
We have multiple Haggis threads going on and I posted this just this morning. Great minds, right.
Quoted from Motorcitypinball:FYI...... In regard to Foreign Transaction fees.
I found out that one of my Capital One card has NO Foreign Transaction fees. So I will be changing my remaining balance when ready to that card!
So That I do NOT incur additional cost!
Thanks for that tip. I will check out my other cards and see if any of them will do this.
Quoted from pins4life33:If they can be shipped directly to Canada that might put me over the edge to pull the trigger on one.
If I lived closer to the border I'd offer my Canadian friends to take delivery and they could pick it up later. A lot of extenuating details to complicate my idea no doubt. But if you have a friend or could find a trusted Pinsider in a neighboring northern US state near you, it could work out.
Plan #2. There is a great price break on shipping two games or more to the same location and that cost could be shared to make it economical for everybody. Shipping from Planetary Pinball in Nevada to Colorado where I am, is going to be cheap ($350?) and even better if we divide that cost. You arrange for pick at my place with the shipper of your choice after that.
Something to consider and you guys may even come up with a better way.
Lets go Haggis. I'm already impatient. 
Quoted from Zukram:Is that a viable option to deliver to a US location for our northern neighbors to come pick it up ? In any case I am fairly close for anyone Ontario/Ottawa... And have games on order already too.. Not sure what else would need to be worked out..
Yep, and we benefit from the cheaper shipping also. Win-Win.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:Texas boy here. I just placed my order. I am very excited!
Congrats, I'm glad to see orders still coming in despite the Mandalorian hype that's going on. Although I'm probably comparing apples to oranges on that one.
Quoted from Boof-Ed:Mermaid? What was the order number? They must be getting close to that magic number by now surely.
Yes, I'm wondering your order or invoice number also. Only nine days left till the order window closes.
Six days to go with only a few spots left and they are headed to completely sell out all 250. I was really pleased to hear him say that.
I understand about people hesitating with the new playfield technology. It's human nature to be suspicious about things people don't understand. But these new playfields are one of the reasons I ran to Haggis and put my money down. That and I love Fathom.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Does Haggis clearcoat the polycarbonate sheet?
Gomez was mostly commenting on the coefficient of friction being different, which makes the ball behave differently, and I think he admitted if they clear coat the sheet then the ball would have the same friction as a normal playfield.
Yes playfields are clear coated.
Quoted from flynnibus:you say this based on?
They've made a point about their coatings to avoid scratches... putting clear on top of that would nullify that.
In one of his videos he talks about it. Unless I misunderstood.
I'll do a passive search for it but I'm not going spend a lot of time. Better yet, I'll send Damain an email to confirm.
Found it.
https://www.facebook.com/303828336848631/videos/229784278223488
Youtube version if you don't use Facebook.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Helpful, but that's for Celts when they offered 3 different versions of the playfield. Fathom is seemingly only getting one option and I don't think it's been clarified if it's more like option 2 or 3 from that video.
Good point. The thing of it is, I don't care.
I fully expect these games to play differently and not just the playfield. The flipper mechs, slings and probably the drop targets will likely have a different feel and sound to them. The original Fathom is over 30 years old and this is to be expected.
But that doesnt mean its going to be a bad difference which is the sense I'm getting from some people. (not you) It's just going to be different and I believe that difference will be negligible.
And with coil strengths etc available in the settings, who knows, this new game has the potential to play even better.
This will be a modern Fathom, which is what I want, and I can't imagine anyone having a *horrible* experience from playing it.
Quoted from kklank:I actually like the fact the fact that are only offering their patented process for the new Fathoms. If you didn’t, every asshole out there will be saying why buy a new Fathom when you can restore an old one and then it’s ultimately the same game.
They’re taking a chance by doing this but I believe in these guys! And I’m one of those assholes that already owns a restored Fathom with a new playfield and cleared cabinet! It’s beautiful.
But this whole package of new code, lcd displays in the apron and the unique playfield is very exciting and worth taking a chance.
I mean of course it won’t play exactly the same and I don’t want it to play exactly the same!
I’m hoping it plays crazy fast with the nostalgic feel.
Kind of like busying a resto mod/old muscle car with a crate engine, new trans, new rear end, new disc brakes. Sounds bad ass!
I wish I could up-vote you 4 times. 
Quoted from pins4life33:Ya we already ship a lot of pins from the US and Canada just rather not go through the pain or expense. Our arcade might even receive all of them and distribute to all Canadian owners if it helps to get them direct. We aren’t Nitro and sell new machines but we do sell a lot of used machines and ship them everywhere in Canada so we have the experience to get it done. If the container was sent to a Canadian location I would pull the trigger but looks like there are not many left so us poor Canadians might have to suck it up and get them shipped from US. If there was a Pinsider on the border on Montana that person would be a busy guy as there is so many games that we would love to import in Canada.
I realise I'm not an ideal candidate but if I can help from Colorado I'd be glad to talk about it.
Another suggestion I will make; Maybe compose a Pinside thread or an ad to recruit someone in Montana or neighboring states.
Best wishes
Quoted from jokerpoker:And for what it’s worth I don’t like the coin door either but I guess it will grow on me or maybe if it’s universal size I can swap it out for something else. As long as it plays well matters mow but we like to nitpick!
I would have preferred they made Fathom in a traditional Bally Williams cabinet. No matter, I'm glad to be in.
Quoted from HaggisPinball:Firstly, we will be closing orders for the Mermaid Edition at haggispinball.com on Monday 24th May at midnight AEST. Only Classic Editions will be available to purchase direct after that date.
Quoted from razorsedge:Be interesting what proportion went overseas.
I'd be curious about that also. I know two of them are coming to Colorado.
Quoted from Pinzap:Curious how many are coming to Minnesota…
FYI. Bryan Kelly spills more beer than he actually drinks. Take care of your machine.
Quoted from PinballAir:Without reading the other 22 pages of this thread, is the game like the original or not?
It's a remake of the orginal with modern day improvements. There's plenty of pictures and information out there if you don't want to read this thread.
Link to TWIP article.
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/haggis-pinball-announces-fathom-revisted-in-depth-overview-of-the-machine-editions-features-rules-plus-an-interview-with-haggis-pinball/
So, I'm loving the mash up of American Bally Fathom being made by Haggis in Australia.
You guys have any Aussie drink recommendations for me for when I get this game? I'm a beer, whiskey and vodka drinker but also open to try something original.
Quoted from punkin:I drink (way too much) Coopers. It's the largest independently family owned brewery in Australia.
Plus they make proper ales, not stinkin' lagers.
[quoted image]
Any man that buys his beer by the pallet is destined to be a friend of mine.
2 weeks later
The communication and transparency via regular updates from Haggis has been outstanding so far. I expect this type of communication to continue even when they have unexpected setbacks, which eventually all business do. My guess is a Haggis update from Damian coming soon, probably around the first of July.
Quoted from John_I:Has anyone figured out what the cost of a Classic will be including shipping to USA/Florida?
All US machines will ship from Planetary Pinball in Reno/Sparks, Nevada to your location. No overseas shipping fees, so normal shipping cost.
Here's a link to the real-estate listing of Haggis's new building complete with pictures. It's from before they recently moved in but I always find stuff like this interesting. It kinda helps visualize the surroundings when watching Damian's video updates.
https://www.realcommercial.com.au/leased/property-103-atlantic-drive-keysborough-vic-3173-503724918
Quoted from punkin:I wish you could order machines without a coin door. Just art and a thumblock for the lockdown bar.
At least offer it as an option guys. It will save you money by not doing it and i'll pay the same price.
Hell, i'd buy conversion panels for all my machines.
I get your point but we need easy access to the control buttons inside the door along with anything we might store inside. (I'm assuming Haggis will use those control buttons)
You might be able to do something creative with a blank door if you're motivated. Personally I like the look of a full feature coin door or maybe I'm just accustom to it.
zzzx large 1 (resized).jpeg 1 week later
Haggis acknowledged to me in advance that my kit would be short a couple of items. Said they would send the balance to me later after the items were back in stock. Just a few days ago I got notification of a second package on its way.
Looks like the beanie was a bonus or substitute for something. Attached picture is from their webpage.
Personally I don't care what they send me as I joined Clan Haggis to support them as I was following them along anyway. They really caught my attention with the bulletproof playfields video and that's when I began researching everything about Haggis Pinball.
I didn't know they were making Fathom when I joined and that was worth it to be able to order a machine before the general public. I'll be giving most of the swag away to deserving friends and family anyway.
zzzz1711439671 (resized).jpg
Quoted from FlippyD:Is Nitro the only place to order one for North America? Do they still have inventory? I see you can add to cart on the their website so I'm guessing yes...?
Yes
Quoted from Boof-Ed:Wow. $4000 non refundable deposit. Am I reading that correctly? I paid $1500 AUD deposit.
Me too and I'm glad I bought in during the limited time window.
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Quoted from punkin:I hereby apologise for my crime of altering a quote and making a joke that the other participant got.
Guess it's an aussie thing.
Sorry to those offended.
I didn't see it but I like your aussie style. Cheers
Quoted from pcprogrammer:What is anyone's best guess right now... are we talking 3 to 6 months until games start shipping or by next spring? Just curious.
Yeah, I'm hoping Damian proves me wrong but first quarter next year is what I'm thinking. We need an update.
1 week later
Quoted from gprotein:We need an update in this thread. Lockdown or not, just a face to face video to let us know how far behind the schedule is
I'd be understanding with a bad update as long as its honest and realistic. But no update is troubling.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Mate, if you have a vested interest, go and contact direct.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Again , if you have ordered , ask a direct message. Then share it here if you want.
I have and my last two emails have been ignored. Last one sent on 06/14/21.
Please don't tell me to patient as I think nearly two months for an email response is plenty of time.
Quoted from Screwloose:Your granddad would have told you when he was fighting in the trenches..... "put your faith in an Aussie
Your comment is not lost on me and it's one of the reasons I have always had a fondness for Australia.
On July 1, 2018 we celebrated your country and our 100 year alliance. And it was much more than just grandads as you will read.
"US, Australian Service Members Mark 100 Years of 'Mateship' "
FORT MYER, Va. -- Being a "mate" in Australia has a whole different connotation than in the United States.
Australians trust a mate implicitly. A mate is a person who shares the last drink of water or the last bit of food or the last beer in the six-pack.
A mate is always ready to help.
A mate shares values, and that is why the United States and Australia celebrated 100 Years of "Mateship" yesterday morning with services at the National Cathedral, followed by a special Twilight Tattoo here last night.
For the U.S. and Australian militaries, the idea of mateship reaches to a higher level. On July 4, 1918, U.S. and Australian soldiers went into combat together assaulting the German line on the Western Front. The Australian soldiers were battle-hardened. The Americans were green. For the first time in history, and one of the few instances in World War I, American troops fought under the direct command of another country. Australian and American soldiers -- from the Illinois Army National Guard's 33rd Infantry Division -- literally fought shoulder to shoulder at the Battle of Hamel. Platoons of Americans were attached to Australian companies.
At the end of the textbook combined arms effort, there were 1,062 Australian casualties and 176 American.
STRONG BONDS THROUGH VARIOUS CONFLICTS
Marine Corps Gen. Joe Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that while mateship began at Le Hamel, it grew with each conflict. "That mateship -- that partnership -- continued through World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Somalia, and -- most recently -- in Afghanistan and Iraq," he said at a reception before the Twilight Tattoo. "I know that all of us assembled … are proud of what our nations represent and the strategic significance of our relationship."
Dunford cited incidents from World War II, Vietnam and Afghanistan in which Australian soldiers worked with U.S. forces to uphold their mutual values. "That is what mateship means to me -- it is my pride in being associated with the Australian armed forces," he said. "I can speak on behalf of all Americans here in saying we are deeply proud of our bond and look forward to the next 100 years of mateship."
Deputy Defense Secretary Patrick M. Shanahan spoke of the bond between the two nations at the memorial service earlier in the day. He said the United States and Australia built an edifice as impressive as the National Cathedral in their fight against tyranny in World War I and beyond. That edifice, he said, was in Northern France.
"Its walls were not made of stone or wood, but of flesh And blood," he said. "Its mortar was the mud of the trenches. Its foundation [was the] courage in young kids from Queens and Queensland, from Adelaide to Appalachia."
The bonds forged on the Western Front endured, and Australia and the United States stand together in an interesting and complex world, Shanahan said, adding that the relationship needs leaders who can deal with ambiguity, uncertainty and change.
https://www.army.mil/article/208025/us_australian_service_members_mark_100_years_of_mateship
3 months later
Quoted from Damonator:Is it just me or does anyone else watch Nitro Pinball's "In Stock" count for Fathom? They have *2* games remaining to sell at which point Fathom ME will be truly sold out.
I check in on that and Bitcoin. You're not alone.
1 month later
Quoted from MrMikeman:I got the email quoted but did not get the xmas package.
I got the xmas gift but not the email. LOL
1 week later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I just wish more weekly info was posted up on what is or not going on there. Hope for the best, did Andrew Heighway produce more Full Throttle pins compared to Celts?
Andrew Heighway produced 75 Full Throttle machines and to compare them to Haggis at this point is trolling.
2 weeks later
Quoted from DirtyDeeds:The word facetious has got all the vowels in the right order so there.
I didn't know that and it's now got me wondering Y.
1 week later
Quoted from cooked71:All of the above plus Kaneda.
People just choose what they want to hear from him.
If you truly listen to him, Kaneda has actually been playing both sides of this. He will say something like: Haggis has all of the earmarks of a Heighway Pinball. Then later he will say something like: But I think Fathom will eventually get made and delivered.
Why he straddles the fence like that I don't know but its his show and a very successful one at that.
But the people that Chisox posted about, the negative people, only hear his Heighway type comments and then they come here.
Kaneda is an opinion entertainer and provocateur, but he is not the problem. The problem is a small segment of his fanbase are mindlessly excitable and unable to think for themselves. Personally I'm embarrassed for them when they come to Pinside and do his bidding.
FYI: I took a much needed break from Kaneda but now I'm back to listening to him again. He makes me laugh at times and cringe at other times. But he is always thought provoking.
- Hi Chris.
1 week later
FYI. A mature female Moose is called a cow. (True)
The Moose in Rocky and Bullwinkle was a male. - Rocky and Bullwinkle was manufactured into a pinball machine by Data East. - Haggis is a pinball manufacturer and we are now back on topic.
(Whew!) I love Pinside.
1 week later
Quoted from MJK-911:WHERE IS A WORKING HAGGIS FATHOM!!!!!!!!!! Doing my 2021 Tax’s and need to know if my Fathom deposit needs to be entered as Charity or an Entertainment Expense?
Lmao. I don't care what side of this you are on, that is one funny ass comment.
Quoted from punkin:I would not believe one word i heard from Cointaker.
Sorry you feel that way. I know Chris and Melissa at Cointaker and I find them to be honorable people. Thoughtful and hard working too.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Is this going to happen or not? I have somebody fed up with the wait that wants to sell me their spot. I love the idea of a new Fathom but I don’t want to be a bag holder.
There are some here that believe it will happen and there are some here that believe it wont.
Does that help you?
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Not really. I like Haggis but things out of their control may have doomed them. I hope not but would totally understand if it did happen. The lack of current status has me concerned. It kinda feels like they are fighting for their lives behind the scenes.
Then you've answered your own question. This does not meet your comfort level. I strongly suggest you do not buy.
Quoted from flynnibus:Spooky also worked in a business incubator, with mostly free labor, with other incomes feeding their families. They had a lot of subsidies, but more critically the leadership had the mindset of sustainability and built the customer loyalty that made it possible to sell the capacity they had. They kept 'right sizing' and ensured their expenses were kept in track with their potential revenues. That took a lot of constraint and I think it really projects the idea that Charlie wanted a lasting business for him and his family, not just a job. He took a massive risk, he pushed through the dark times, but stayed true even when utopia looked like it was right around the corner.
Both Spooky and Haggis have taken on the gargantuan task of learning how to engineer a pinball machine for production and real field use. It takes a lot of time and a lot of 'lessons learned the hard way'. This takes time and iterations. The great part is Damien's displayed optimism and curiosity really sets him up to power through (and enjoy!) those kinds of evolutions.
But once you move past 'experiments' and take on real liabilities like equipment leases, building leases, employee expectations, inventory, etc.. it's no longer a curiosity but an obligation to see things through to the critical milestones. That obligation takes financial resources, fortitude, and the honesty to face real assessments of where you really are, and what the outcomes look to be. That's the part where 'reality hits' and too many either lack the resources to get through it, or leadership refuse to face the realities and make choices that can lead to ruin (Deeproot, Heighway, JPOP).
I have been very optimistic about the general approach Haggis took, iterating through Celts and landing the remake angle. I didn't think they'get the product right at first (just like just about everyone!), but they would continue to iterate and improve. The initial plan for 50 games a month sounded really optimistic, but not unobtainable. If they invested in the people, space, and runway they could do it. But their sizing of things since then really feels they are wayyyy behind those initial ambitions.
I'm sure they are pounding through trying to get complete games together and show they can get them out the door. I just hope their backing has the same optimism and resolve Damien has shown.. so they can keep pressing forward and break through!
Bingo. I completely agree with Fynnibus's assessment. And I also agree with many of the skeptical comments Pinside has made.
As a Fathom deposit holder, I am not enjoying any of the silence or delays. And the longer this drags on the more concerned I get. But I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet especially over a small deposit amount.
Quoted from Clytor:They were at TPF in 2019 with, as I seem to recall, a whitewood of Celts.
Quoted from SKWilson:They had the whitewood there in 2018. In 2019, they had a working prototype.
TPF still has the prototype as Haggis gifted it to the show rather than ship it back.
Quoted from d0n:If damian lets him out of his season ticket contract 2 months ago why not let everyone else out of their non refundable contracts? That's my point.
I don't want out of the contract. And Oldskool seems like a decent man so I'm happy for him.
Quoted from blue95:I wouldn't be surprised if all this carry on will cause Haggis to stop posting on here like Homepin did
Homepin dug his own grave with his insulting and hateful comments. Someone must of wised him up that he was alienating his customers.
I don't like the silence from Haggis right now but I believe it's strategic in a entirely different way. I'm not going to go into detail of why, so that Pinside can parse my every word, but if I were Damian, I'm pretty sure I'd be doing the exact same thing.
Actions speak louder than words and you pick and choose your battles. Hopefully we will see some positive action soon.
Look, Flynnibus is a pain in my ass too. Other times I find him quite brilliant and insightful. I just wish he wasn't so verbose and redundant.
But if he isn't allowed to comment because he doesn't have skin in the game, then Iceman should not be allow to cheerlead. It's an open forum and if Flynnibus has gotten under your skin, ignore him or block him.
Same with Haymaker. I don't care for some of his comments about Haggis but he and I sure had a good time in the Deeproot thread. LOL. 
I've been down both sides of this Pinside path many times now and some of us need to just roll with it. Easier said than done, I know.
I'm trying to compose a new Pinside thread that is a spin off of this one. But I'm not a gifted writer and I'm struggling to find my words. If I'm successful in getting it written I'll post a link in this thread.
Quoted from Pinballer31520:It's been a year since Fathom was announced with production of 50 games a month to begin in April 2021. It has been two months since
we got notice the Classic Editions were going into production. So far no pictures of any fathom being opened new in box and no pictures of any on the assembly line. Damian has refused my requests for a refund - based on his inability to honor the agreement and produce the game in a timely manner. I understand this is a start up company but I have seen no evidence of anything being made with the exception of a few Celts. If anyone has any positive information from Damian on the current state of things please post it here. If any suppliers in the USA have any info on the current state of production please update us.
We were sold a product and lied to and continue to be left in the dark.
I'll buy your spot for $500 USD
Quoted from iceman44:What’s the point of being a redundant jackass non stop? “Having a good a good time at it”. Whatever floats your boat. Actually, I think you would admit it does float yours
I’m not putting up with it. Acting like a 5 yr old. “Haha, you were wrong and I was right”. The same mini mob circling the wagons
I’m interested in buying a spot. So if that’s “Cheerleading” then so be it.
Doug, what the hell are you talking about? What an odd response to my comment but this is what I've come to expect from you. I was talking about Flynnibus mostly and Haggis supporter responses.
Don't forget, you and I were both on the wrong side of the original pinball scam, the granddaddy of them all, Jpop and Zidware.
BTW, they're talking about you in the Deeproot thread but you seem to have suddenly dropped out.
Here's the quote link: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/583#post-6832362
Nice article
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/haggis-pinball-is-hard-at-work-cranking-out-celts?fbclid=IwAR30csGmTlHAdk0YnLA0qZecYNU3kpYv3J-zF99EgNDX7DTl1kjGXd2LzL8
972503_16ef891fc4c0440db7a1794395868b71_mv2 (resized).jpg
file(9) (resized).jpgfile (resized).jpgQuoted from twenty84:3. On a regular Fathom when you hit the ball in the scoop the 3 inline drop targets come up. These drop targets are also individually controllable on a Bally Fathom. In this version the ball just gets kicked back out. In fact in the games shown the inline drop targets never come up at all, and thus are never knocked down. Do they have a working inline drop target mech?
I noticed that also but this was a demonstration of the new code only. Original game play code will be an option in the game.
And because its one of my favorite features, I'm hoping the new code will continue to be written and that feature included at different times.
And maybe it already is there or will be as we only saw an introduction of game play. My guess is it will be included in the new code.
1 week later
Quoted from Pinzap:How in the world did everyone in this thread, including me, miss that yesterday (March 29th) was International Mermaid Day??
Oh shit, I forgot to buy her flowers.
1 week later
Quoted from flynnibus:Medusa has the greatest open field... but it also has some of the highest material and development costs. Makes it a tough one to tackle. Tons of drops, zipper flippers, lit flippers, segment displays in the PF, etc.
Come on Flynn, it's a fantasy pick, why ya gotta bring reality into it. Besides, I think if anybody can do it, Haggis can.
How come no one ever mentions the player operated, Shield of Gods, ball save on Medusa. Its a cool challenge with a limited use, countdown display that you can add to with skilled gameplay. ....And I hate most between the flippers ball saves.
Quoted from d0n:Is that an electric baseboard heater mounted on the wall?! :O
That's a mini split ductless heating/AC system probably by Mitsubishi and they are fantastic. Google for information.
Quoted from d0n:that is not a minisplit. That's an electric baseboard heater.
You may be right. Never seen a baseboard heater up that high before though....
GO HAGGIS!
Quoted from Meldenhut:Anyone care to explain who/what Duck pinball is? Looks like he is a pinball restorer from Argentina?
Seems like a long way to go for someone considering the haggis playfield construction process is different then a standard pinball machine?
Someone educate me here on what I’m missing
My read is the guy is a skilled and experienced pinball enthusiast who just landed his dream job. With wife and family back home supporting him. Read his message again and see how exuberant he is.
Sounds like a win/win to me and I'm pleased to have someone with such passion building my game.
My excitable friend Kaneda is calling it red flags and I wholeheartedly disagree.
Ok, let me apologize to everyone, including Kaneda for mentioning his name. I like him, I will defend him and I consider him a friend. But like with all of my friends, I speak my mind and we have disagreements. In fact, I think Kaneda and I share some personality traits and that's why he and I can irritate one another.
I appreciate all of his haters promoting his show with each mention, but I think its time to move along and get back on topic.
FYI. I'm also a proud friend with Flynnibus who is the natural enemy to Kaneda. LOL
Quoted from Mancave:I'm game....never liked beer!! Give me a decent bourbon any day
pasted_image (resized).pngHere's a picture from my bar. The two bottles out front are made by a local Colorado distillery. The distillery owners are pinball people and they have machines in the bar/lounge area.
What makes those two bottles unique and on topic is that the artwork was done by Greg Freres, the same artist that did Fathom.
(Note to Whisky lovers. Try that Hibiki. The Japanese know what they are doing)
Quoted from Nhpolarbear:Mr68: were those special run spirits? One time only?
EDIT: I just checked and don't find them on the Webpage. Sorry, I'm not sure.
Quoted from Nhpolarbear:Mr68: were those special run spirits? One time only?
I just contacted them and they no longer use those labels. Too bad
Quoted from MegadethHangar18:I wouldn't be crossing my fingers after what's been going on with trends in past and some present pinball company's and being hopeful here, I'd be onto Haggis BIG TIME Pal ... they've got your hard earned $$$$$ and you've got Nothing and Know Nothing!!!
Did I mention they have your $$$$$ and have had it for a year or so! My mate has had to pay the rest in full and still...............NOTHING ..........F ALL.
If it was me I'd be proactive and be getting onto them because hopeful and positive might be reactive and too late.
Hey man, are you OK? All of those yelling, CAPITOL LETTERS and dots and the dramatic pauses...... Wow!!!
What makes you think you know pinball history better than others? I was in on Big Bang Bar in 2006 and we heard a lot of hysteria from the know-it-all critics back then.
Just as there are similarities to failed companies for Haggis, there are similarities to the successful ones also. But of course the drive by panic babies don't talk about that. Also consider there is a huge disconnect between Haggis and the failed companies too. Again, not spoken of.
I'm not happy with the situation and I have expressed my concerns to Damian in private conversations including one today. I'm also not naïve and for you to claim I ""Know Nothing!!!"" is rude and you are the uneducated one.
Just because we're not publicly commenting on our situation doesn't mean we are blind, unaware or even unconcerned. We are concerned or at least I am. But I'm not a child, I'm better informed than you and I can handle my own shit.
I admire and give credit to our critics Flynnibus and Jeffspinballpalace because they give reasoning and thought to most of their comments.
Your comment, on the other hand, has no substance to it and you are mindlessly parroting what you've been told by others. How embarrassing for you.
Quoted from flynnibus:Yeah, but remember BBB finished not because people were patient and loyal to the end... but because CHANGE happened.. in large part in the form of Kerry
BBB faced criticism and rightly so - but unlike other failures like DR... they made changes and ultimately found a formula that got it done. BBB isn't a role model - it was just a story of a journey that ultimately had a reasonably good ending. Lots of bodies still got buried along the way.
Gene's BBB story of course shares the similarities of missed deadlines, poor forecasts, lack of experience, and poor communications.. but it also shares the unwavering dedication to get it done. Let's see if Damien has been able to make successfully make the necessary pivots needed to navigate the storm.
The lack of comms given his history is disappointing. I mean, it's not like BBB where people had to rely on fax machines at IPB
Jesús christ, Flynn. I was citing an example to make an over all point. Perhaps you would like to also explain why its fair to compare Damian to RM at Deeproot. Comparing Deeproot to Haggis is a common theme here also. After that please write a dossier comparing Spooky and JJP and the complete pinball history.
Your right, each example is unique unto themselves. I'm sorry you missed my larger point.
Looking good Haggis.
Be advised. Sooner or later, someone will find something negative to exploit and we will once again hear from the Panic Babies.
I love it when they explain what we already know, but they do it with CAPITOL LETTERS and exclamation points!!!!!
Go Panic Babies!!!
Well I guess I'll step into the fire here even though it's unnecessary for me to do so. I hope some of you guys will appreciate my candor and hold judgment for a moment.
I have purchased two Fathom Mermaid spots from Haggis.
I was already a Clan Haggis member before the announcement came and therefore able to order 24 or 48 hours before the general public could. (I'm hazy on the time lines) I bought my first spot within hours after notice from Damian. I wanted to buy two spots at that time but with only 250 games being made, I didn't want to screw anybody out of an opportunity.
I kept in touch with Damian after that and throughout the general public sales window. I told him my desire to buy a second game if any were still available after the pre-order window closed. Damian told me no problem and I should keep in touch with him. During the final hours on the final sales day, Damian told me he still had games available. I bought a second machine as the window closed.
I reserve the right to change my mind, but it is and has been my intention to take possession of both games before selling one of them.
You may disagree with my methods here but while helping myself during that uncertain time, I believe I was also helping Haggis to get their start.
And oh by the way, times are still uncertain and my gamble has yet to pay off.
Quoted from Pinchild:Falling for 1970s and 1980s machines over the last year.
I almost never touch my newer machines?
Anyone else experience this oddness?
TX-Sector is my go to game and its been in my collection for a couple of years now.
Sold my Bally Fathom and really missing it. Lets go Haggis!
Quoted from MegadethHangar18:When I go back to my Harry Williams Cheetah or Ali I get a completely different but positive Buzz, some of the old games are Mint.
God speed with your Fathom Cobba
Thank you, very kind of you to say and I'm flattered. I truly am.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I would guess from the little information shared here on Haggis Pinball Production. That the employees working there are between 5 - 15.
If we're going to guess, I'm going to speculate that some of the Haggis workers are volunteers. I witnessed this happen at Illinois Pinball for the building of Big Bang Bar and I'm personally aware of other start up pinball companies that had the same. I even volunteer some of my time for BBB and I saw a lot of great people come and go. And you will find no better workers than volunteers with passion that want to be there.
It's also apparent to me that Australia has a strong and passionate collector community with an even stronger national pride. Haggis belongs to them in a sense and if they need help, I imagine the countrymen of Oz will be there.
Go Haggis
Quoted from d0n:If you're smart, you won't unbox that game until this all plays out.
Something tells me I may regret asking this, but I cant figure out your logic. Why shouldn't he unbox the game?
Quoted from d0n:No one thinks it's strange that Bill the driver wasn't allowed inside the facility when picking up Fathom... like he had been in the past when he picked up Celts for transport?
I would think it odd if true. Please cite your proof.
Quoted from d0n:You're the king of making profit on pinball games. How much did you make on TBL? :O You already know the answer to your baited question.
What's worth more... A. new in a box or B. used & played example of the only known fathom mermaid to exist in the world.
If.. and I say IF... that ends up being the only mermaid produced (let's hope it is not but it is entirely possible), it's the most rare "production" pinball game ever. It's a $75k - $100k game to the right collector.
Quoted from d0n:Who do you think took the picture of #30 fathom strapped down inside a transport vehicle? Bill did. How do you think that pic ended up public? He sent it to Keneda and told him he wasn't allowed in the facility when picking it up. Keneda seems to be your buddy, he says your name at least once in every one of his FB and patreon podcasts. You haven't watched or listened to his recent shows?
Kaneda is my friend but we often disagree. Don't be jealous when he gives me a shout out.
And you're right, I am a king of making a profit. I was the one that sold Kaneda my Magic Girl.
Quoted from d0n:Welcome to page 85 of people chatting/bickering/cheerleading while waiting for their Fathoms to be made.
Come on everyone, Haggis is undermining themselves by not showing production and basically going radio silent for months (except for that recent staged video). They could stop all this speculation, negativity and buyers anxiety with a simple 5 minute walk-thru of the production area showing games being made.
Have any of the folks who were asked to pay in full 8+ weeks ago heard anything about their game?
Tell us the Bill story again.
Quoted from d0n:The ONLY thing I have done is sell a preorder for $5k to cover my ass if this all falls through. If I had full confidence in Haggis, I would NOT have had to sell a preorder to put myself in a position of no risk.
So its ok for someone to get screwed out of $5k as long as you're in position of no risk? Wow
Quoted from d0n:tune in tomorrow ...same bat time, same bat channel
Don.
Please stop harassing me with your weird and angry private messages. I will not respond to your nonsense.
1 week later
Just got this into the game room the other day. Playfield, cabinet and backglass are all in great shape. Gonna shop it out with Titan silicone rubber and replace the color lightbulbs with soft white LED's all the way around. It will look fantastic when I'm done.
So why am I posting this here?
1. I will be placing my Mermaid Fathom next to it after it arrives.
2. I'm at peace with the Haggis delay and not interested in the panic babies.
3. I'm a shameless braggart.
Spirit20220519_131627 (resized).jpgQuoted from d0n:I totally agree he'll need at least an extra $3k each to finish these mermaids. That email is coming.
BUT who in their right mind will send haggis the final payment of $7900 plus an extra $3000 at this point?
If you believe this to be true as you have just stated, then you need to modify your For Sale ad and include this critical information. To not do so would be deceptive.
Quoted from d0n:This is my buddy T-Pain.
[quoted image]
zEVmOa5iXYAE63o- (resized).jpgQuoted from ronaldvg:I have no horse in this race, but I went through this with the original Alien, and as this situation seems very much like the situation back then I wanted to share my opinion.
As I see it these companies always have the best intentions, no way that I am accusing anybody of anything in that regard, but what gets them is often the problem that stuff takes longer than expected due to any number of reasons. That makes that the available money is burning quicker than excpected and at some time they just run out of money.
That is then compensated with the promise that the machines are almost ready and the request to pay the remainder of the amount that has to be paid to get the machine they ordered. Then the company can deliver some machines and everybody gets excited again because machines are being delivered, so everything looks ok and money is being transferred no questions asked.
But the money will run out again before all machines have been made. Often the company will try to announce another machine to gather more money (Jpop and Dutch Pinball did this) in order to fill the hole just to dig another one.
I sincerely hope for all involved that this is not the case, but it sure as hell feels like it (I have been following this for some time now). I felt the need to make these comments as most of the postings are either very positive or very negative and the negative ones get shot down without consideration.
If I were in the position of a buyer, I would now not pay the remainder, but wait until the machine is ready to ship. This is bad for the company but the company should be the one that is responsible for being able to deliver what they sold, not the customer.
If I were the manufacturer and I would be in this kind of situation, I would talk to my customers and be more transparent. Most of us do not mind to pay a bit more to get a nice Pinball machine and the ones that do should be made aware of the situation. That is the only decent way to handle things. I know this might be difficult and even frightening, but maybe also the only way to get out of the problems and be able to fulfill all the obligations made. I firmly believe that is what all these guys want.
Hope the best for Haggis, I LOVE what they do and the machines are oozing of detail and love for pinball. I hope I am very wrong and that everything is ok and the world will be 250 Mermaids richer at some time.
I'm sincerely very sorry you had a bad experience with Heighway Pinball. Best wishes to you.
Quoted from Damonator:Christmas came early!
Maybe crack a beer and giggle for a moment. Guarantee he will be back on Pinside long before Christmas.
But maybe not back in this thread. I didn't see what he posted.
Quoted from Travahontas:According to Haggis, playfield scratches can't be buffed out:
Replacement playfields are a topside only swap out that even a short attention span guy like me could easily do. I love many of our playfield restoration guys but man would that save me a lot of time and money. And I would expect considerable life out of Haggis playfields before the need arises.
And because I'm quite experienced at flame polishing pinball ramps, I'd give that a go on the original playfield after a swap out. And as I sit here right now, its my very strong guess that flame polishing would work very well.
FYI. Flame polishing is really easy once you've done it and on a flat surface like a playfield, its almost dummy proof.
Quoted from Cappy:Series Ticket Holder. Just picked it up. Just helping ease everyone's worry, they are getting them built!
[quoted image]
Did they let you in to use the bathroom?
Quoted from screaminr:Over here , we call it a dunny
Does the dunny water swirl counter-clockwise? (Asking for the conspiracy believers)
Quoted from visualmagic:I should've done that flynnibus
Cheekily trying to get the Aussie forum some traffic! Ha ha. Cheers though, that's good.
Hope you enjoy the video. Managed to get a few hours today to complete it.
And the machine isn't in a shed any more, it's in my new house and getting some love finally!
Thank you for your generosity of time and effort put into this, especially under your complex personal situation. For the past several weeks its been disheartening reading the moronic zombie crowd on Facebook attacking you and doubting your sincerity.
Cheers
Quoted from flynnibus:No coin mechs! Call kaneda!
Hmmm, I saw two coin mechs.
Quoted from screaminr:I think they would be an added extra for the actual mechanisms , like jjp games ( I don't know if other manufacturers include them or not )
The only thing I thought was missing was some service rails , but that's a non-issue .
Thanks for setting me straight. I should never doubt Flynnibuss. I saw two coin slots...
Quoted from flynnibus:This is the challenge with any 'coating' solution - the coatings limit your ability to refinish the surface. Haggis feel they have done their diligence.. only thing we can do really is wait to see how it performs long term. It at least has the potential for serviceable replacement.. Haggis could also build confidence by having a clear affordable option for future needs.
I agree with this and am not overly concerned at this point. We also have Oldskool1969 expressing surprise at the report and commenting that he has not had any such issues on his Celts. And I appreciate that Haggis was transparent and addressed the issue in a video long ago.
Competing manufacture playfields having chipping, pooling and ghosting inserts is more concerning to me.
Quoted from wesh:Something special landed here in Atlanta!
[quoted image]
That looks like one of those empty cabinets that people made fun of in the #No Words video. How the heck did they build and ship that without employees as we were told?
Looks like the #No Words video was talking loud and clear to those of us paying attention.
Congratulations, Wesh
Quoted from flynnibus:presumably the people getting games now paid for individual air shipping?
I would think they are Series Game members and air shipping. (My guess)
I'll be flying both of my games but I'm not a Series Game member.
I'm too impatient for a slow boat and US Customs.
Quoted from meSz:I do listen to him and find some of his stuff interesting but he has given Haggis a lot of crap as well as others. He goes for the shock effect.
I agree.
I listen to Kaneda too and I also like him. What boggles my mind is how his fanbase will gobble up his off the cuff remarks, his speculation, and repeat it without question. They don't even think about it and they get so riled up that it spills over to the internet in various forms. I don't blame him so much as I blame them.
Good grief people, along with his obtaining some great scoops on the pinball world that no one else does, you're also being entertained. Learn to recognize between the two and think for yourselves.
Quoted from d0n:I heard the bill story on a podcast. If the podcaster was wrong then I was wrong.
I was a Haggis Clan Member before the Fathom announcement and therefore able to order during the one day exclusive.
I bought direct from Haggis and I'm not a series game buyer.
This morning I got a prompt reply email from Damian. I am next in the queue after the series ticket people have been taken care of, which seems fast approaching. In my reply I offered to pay early as I'll be traveling beginning the day after tomorrow.
So far he has not asked me for any money and seems intent on following a set agenda as best he can.
I like that about him.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:Any non season ticket holder know the status of their game or been asked for final payment?
My order number is 336 (I ordered late in the game).
It may have been over looked in my comment above yours, but I'm a non season ticket holder.
1 week later
Quoted from Pinchild:Zero.
It ships to planetary pinball for free then they ship to you.You'll pay freight from there my guess would be around $300.
That's what it was when first ordered anyhow?
True but air freight is an option for us impatient little boys
)
Quoted from John_I:The classic Bally (and Stern) was a really great era of pinball machines that lots of collectors really love. Of those, Fathom is possibly the most desirable and the prices of originals are going through the roof.
I had a very nice Bally Fathom that was bolted to my floor for several years. It held its own in a game room of high end collectable games including NIB Big Bang Bar, HEP restored games and one of the original 40, Big Lebowski's.
My much older Fathom handily punched above it's weight class.
I was getting ready to ship my Fathom to Christopher Hutchins of HEP for a complete restoration when I found out about the Haggis remake.
I had no need to advertise selling as I had local friends waiting to buy my Fathom and for top dollar.
Fathom is not a game for everyone, especially newbies that only want toys. But for myself and many other people, its a beauty with re-playable magic.
Quoted from jgentry:I've yet to hear of a bolted to the floor game that didn't get sold. Everyone should really stop going to the trouble of doing that.
Completely agree. Its just an expression and has been the kiss of death for me saying it in the past.
Good reply my friend. (and funny)
1 week later
Quoted from rai:I wanted to ask this, I’ve never played Fathom and have played some 80s pins that might have been beat to crap over 40 years. So I have no idea how this new pin will play. My closest pin in my collection is TNA, I love the basic rules but modern touches like color changing inserts. Just wanted to ask if Fathom is similar to TNA.
Very different in many ways. But off the top of my head for similarities, Fathom has the "Danesi Lock" as it came to be called on TNA.
Drop targets begin down, ball locks, then drop targets pop up in front of the ball which then need to be knocked down one at a time to release for multiball.
Of course there are differences in play via code but you get the idea.
Fathom has two of those ball locks and two different ways to knock the drop targets down after locking. Side drop targets are dual purpose when the balls are locked.
Not to take anything away from TNA or Scott Danesi but its more fun and challenging on Fathom in my opinion and was invented in 1981.
Got notice from Damian last night and bank wired my balance first thing this morning. Projected completion date is 8 weeks but I have no problem if they go long. Worth the wait IMO.
I'm not a Series member so they must be wrapping it up for those people and now on to the Mermaids.
I'm still shaking my head at the people who gave zero credit to the #NOWORDS video and instead chose to demonize every second of it. Maybe Haggis should have named it #STFU
Quoted from DakotaMike:LOL. Someone else brought it up. I think it's been a while since that topic was discussed.
If one of you can provide a good reason why Haggis would needs payment so early, then I'll happily never discuss it again. Short of the company being hard up for cash, I can't "Fathom" why they want payment so far ahead of the build time.
Please, enlighten me. Since you are so tired of the subject being discussed. Also, isn't the other thread the sunshine-and-roses Haggis thread, I thought this one was where we could actually discuss potential issues and concerns. And ya know, look at things with a healthy dose of skepticism.
Your comment was good by me and I welcome thoughtful skepticism. And given the current situation, I understand it. Some of us are still a bit raw from the panic babies that repeatedly cried, "Heighway Pinball" from their perfect, black and white world.
As a long experienced entrepreneur/business owner, I can tell you that no business in the history of business's has ever followed a straight business plan. Smart and successful people have to take unexpected circumstances and creatively zig/zag their environment. It's a constant battle behind the scenes that cubicle dwellers never see.
Supply chain issues, employee issues, covid shut downs, inflation, recession and many of the same issues that are slowing down all of the other pinball manufactures' are in play here for Haggis.
Yes, Haggis obviously needs the money and to survive they have changed their terms. For some people it's easy to jump to the conclusion it can only mean disaster. For me, I see it as forward thinking, long range strategy to survive and eventually thrive.
About two months ago I privately offered Damian to pay for my two games in full with no conditions or expectations. If he was in trouble I wanted to help. Damian politely rejected my offer as he felt more comfortable staying within his new game plan and terms.
And get this. As I recently posted, I just sent in my balance but only for one of my two games. I have to wait in line for my second game because it would be out of order and unfair to others. Does that sound like a man who is desperately clinging on? Not to me.
Now I don't have a crystal ball and I don't have inside information. And maybe Haggis will fail to survive, I don't know. But for now, I'm very optimistic and willing to be patient as I understand how the real world works.
DakotaMike: My comments are in general and not directed at you.
Quoted from CQQLKAT-LEE:Got two questions for you or anyone else here. The price you mentioned of 1700 if you chose airfare is that after the discount that Damien mentioned he would credit anyone for the sea rate that he would of covered and second when everyone here is getting notified of payment request for build date, who is the email coming from, is it Damien or does it come listed as email from Haggis etc. I want to do search on my emails make sure I haven't missed my notice with the chance it might end up in spam folder or something. Thanks
""The state of global shipping is still extremely volatile and has shifted greatly from when we first offered free shipping by container to PPS in Nevada, USA. We are still happy to honour that option, but we are also aware that some people will want their games quicker than it may take for us to fill a 40-foot container and have it shipped to PPS for on-shipping by yourself. As such, we are happy to discount any alternate shipping arrangements by the amount we had previously allocated ($250USD per game). e.g. DHL Express has been a reliable service for us over the last 12 months and we are happy facilitate the entire process on your behalf.
As we approach the boxing of your game, we can discuss further the best option for shipping""
That's a quote I got from an email ending with Haggispinball.com. This tells me the final shipping cost to fly is going to be a moving target for each of us depending on timing, the shipping company and world events.
Quoted from CQQLKAT-LEE:That's a crazy shipping cost curious how many people who are getting mermaids are going to chose to pay by Air shipping verses free by sea?
I was going to fly my game regardlessly. To find out they are going to credit the boat cost was a nice surprise.
Quoted from Stargeezer:Just a question to those that have paid final payment. How did you do the payment. My Bank is asking a SWIFT code.
Haggis is saying it is a simple bank transfer.
Any help would be appreciated . Thanks.
Haggis set up a bank account here in the states so it really is a simple transfer for us. Swift code is for international payments.
All banking account numbers will be provided to you from Haggis.
2 weeks later
Quoted from punkin:Ace. I did talk to Damian when i got the machine and he said he'd have a think about my feedback, but it's not intuitive where the shots are. the inserts just have weird symbols instead of the mode name (i get that they are runes) but the lighting for the next shot isn't exactly AFM style flashing hit me. There's a few coloured lights on the playfield and you have to try and figure out what colour shot to go for. The callouts aren't much help either, they are rare.
It's probs just fine for anyone who knows the rules, but nearly impossible to figure out for a drunk, casual player.
Having it rely on the top scoop so much is hard too, it takes a tight combo to get that scoop, a tight orbit, hope it goes in the left inlane, then the exact shot off the top flipper to hit the scoop. Pretty difficult for average players.
It's a pity, such a beautiful game, with a fun layout, but at this stage, just not fun for a casual player.
I have high hopes though and it can all be improved with code.
Maybe a V2 code package Damain, with the standard code available for the purists?
Just for clarity, Punkin was talking about Celts in this quote. Not Fathom.
I have a good friend that reads too quickly and he misunderstood.
Quoted from cooked71:Note to self: don’t pre-order.
Yep, I get what you're saying. But for Fathom I don't mind.
That said, Haggis needs to get their production shit together if they want to be a player. And I strongly believe they will.
Quoted from cooked71:I think they will.
Was more a hint for DakotaMike to stop pre-ordering since he bailed on both UM and this.
Its a good thing I'm handsome cuz I aint so smart sometimes.
Quoted from rai:Are most US buyers going with air freight or ocean shipping?
I hate the extra cost of air (especially since I paid a premium for my spot) but not sure how long the delay for ocean shipping will be.
I'm flying my game and have justified the cost in both time and money.
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:I have some concerns wiring money given the delays and few machines seen going out beyond the series ticket holders orders in this forum.
I was in the same boat a month or so ago and sent the money in without hesitation. And soon I hope to post here about a Mermaid with wings flying to the states. I'm also non-series.
I'm not keeping score but in the past few weeks it seems like more unboxings and deliveries are happening now.
But here's the true sign that Haggis is for real: All of the panic baby's that shouted "Heighway Pinball!!!" have gone silent and acting like they never cried wolf.
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:what is your build / order number?
I don't know. I can't find my paperwork. 
Consider that dOn not only deleted his Pinside account, he also deleted his Facebook and quickly reopened it under an alternate name. (He abbreviated his last name)
And why? Because Haggis proved him wrong after his shooting his mouth off and he's embarrassed. (At least that's my recollection of why he quit)
So if you think about it, he's already paying a price for his actions.
I just dont understand why he continues to publicly hate on Haggis.
Quoted from flynnibus:To be honest… that was mainly gwj…
He was one certainly, but not alone or the worst.
Here's a thread dedicated to Haggis = Heighway. Along with a Poll.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-haggis-the-next-heighway-pinball-poll-inside
zzzzHaggis (resized).pngQuoted from greatwichjohn:Some of us were just concerned in the past when they went deep & silent about the Fathom build. Anything can happen in the future with any business. I stated when they started finally getting games out good for them. Not a buyer or on the insider club of Haggis Pinball. Not around here much because there is no need. But blame me for everything wrong in the world. I will raise a few cans of bud tonight.
John, you also came back to this thread and apologized. See quote below. No one else has done anything like that and I say bravo to you.
Now please stop playing a martyr on Pinside. No one is blaming you for the worlds problems and some of us are encouraging you.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:As for Haggis congrats on getting games out. Might of been a little harsh during their non regular update period recently. They have proven me wrong!
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Nobody outside of Fathom buyers cares about Haggis anymore.
Then why are you here?
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:Can you tell us your invoice number and if you are a season ticket holder. It would be helpful for those of us concerned about sending them money and give us an idea of where they really are in production.
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:I received my invoice this morning. I am build number 116. I wasn't expecting this for sometime due to the delays.
What the highest number build that someone has received.
I have some concerns wiring money given the delays and few machines seen going out beyond the series ticket holders orders in this forum.
If you'd like to sell you spot, please let me know. Serious offer.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I only came by because another 300 posts were here and I was hoping there’d been some great news. The reason I explained in my first sentence that nobody cares was because people kept asking where all the nay sayers went that were here frequently. They have given up on this folly. Go find guy who has game 100 and ask him when he gets his game. Ask the guy with #50 if he knows. Nobody does which is why it is boring.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Nobody outside of Fathom buyers cares about Haggis anymore. If Haggis built 20 games in 8 months, then bad on them. I’d want to hide those numbers too. That’s terrible. Instead of sitting around smoking cigars and toasting with glasses of cognac those that would, should be screaming bloody murder and asking to see proof of Haggis existence. What a shitshow of a company. If you are number 250, you could get your game in x years and Haggis won’t refund deposits. They won’t communicate with public how many are built. They won’t answer customers emails, unless they like you (that’s what makes it worse). They are asking for balance payment without idea of when game will be made. If this company survives, today will mark it’s lowest point. However should they not, they have much further to fall.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:That’s the conundrum. The prize is great and worth significantly more than the cost of entry. So every game delivered makes the owner feels like a genius, and a winner. They took a risk and it paid off. However, higher number buyers have taken the same risk and are still waiting and it may not end the same for them.
I just re-read all three of your recent quotes. Do you have any new information that you could share? Or any solid information that we are not already aware of?
If not, then congratulations to you for stating what we already know, along with your hysteria. And good job on overlooking some of the recent positive developments.
We are all adults and aware of any risks here and yes, some risk still remains. Some are even being discussed right now by a reluctant buyer.
Sorry but we're not going to jump up and down, screaming and yelling ""bloody murder"" for your entertainment. Pretty sure we can handle it ourselves from here.
Quoted from Chisox:Totally. Seems like every few weeks somebody comes here with their hair on fire trying to save us from ourselves. From what I can tell everyone here has been in the game long enough to know the risk. Nobody is buying a Fathom remake as their first game.
I subscribe to Kaneda and enjoy his show, although he and I often disagree. He's very convincing and jeffspinballpalace was simply echoing the Kaneda philosophy concerning Haggis.
Former Pinsider, dOn, was also a follower and we all remember why he flamed out here.
Some of his devoted listeners need to step outside the Kaneda box and try thinking on their own.
Quoted from dscapo:He’s not wrong but the concerns he harps on about transparency and timelines are plaguing the entire industry.
I'd like more transparence too and you're right, it is industry wide and not just Haggis. But look what happened when Haggis posted their last video.
**No employees in that video! - No production line! - What are they hiding!?! CONSPIRIACY just like Heighway!!
You see, Haggis is damned if the do and damned if they don't. I know from running my own business over the years, the difficult and tough decisions are NEVER popular or welcomed.
They are adapting to an unexpected environment and you do what you need to do to move forward.
It's my guess that Haggis made a decision to let their actions speak louder than words. They've decided to quietly take the beating upfront because they know that everything will be forgotten once they're on top of things. And slowly but surely, they are making and shipping games and recently it seems like they're picking up the pace.
This past comparison to Heighway Pinball that got very loud, was nothing but lowbrow drama. A more fair comparison for Haggis would be to Dutch Pinball. Don't forget, Dutch Pinball went completely dark for YEARS with ZERO games going out. Was it 4 years they went dark?
And now Dutch Pinball is a respectable company to those same people that once yelled the loudest at them. In comparison, Haggis right now is light years ahead of Dutch at this stage of their company development.
Does this mean that Haggis will survive and thrive? I hope so but I really don't know for certain and nobody does. But right now I like my chances and theirs.
Quoted from flynnibus:Nah, they proved they would follow-through on their commitment by shipping a significant # of games to EAs. But everyone is still operating with, at most, a promise with loose obligations and a long way to go before all EAs are made whole. Dutch have shown their resolve no doubt, but everyone is still running with a very high risk of exposure. People are giving them slack as they continue to hope to fall on the good side of the line. There is still lots of 'give and take' when dealing with DPL because people know things are thin and getting 'some resolution' is better than none... even if it costs you more out of pocket then it should.
Nope. According to Cointaker, Dutch Pinball is now offering full cash refunds to any remaining EA's.
As to the remainder of your comments, you and I can just agree to disagree. (hopefully, LOL)
Edit for clarity: Cointaker is offering the refunds on TBL for the EA's.
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:TBL is awesome. Glad to hear dutch is doing this. I'd imagine it would be a loss to take original price in cash back rather than flip the machine NIB.
In my opinion, with games now selling for $13,000, I think very few would take the cash option. But then you never know.
Hey all
It would seem there are some people who are nervous about sending their balance money in when they receive notification. I understand and can appreciate your reluctance, however I have no such concerns.
If you know my story you would know that I have a 2nd game ordered towards the end of the line.
If your number is approaching build time or further up the line. And if you would prefer to wait and see if Haggis is going to make it or not, I would like to trade spots with you.
I can also offer some cash to sweeten the deal depending how far up the line you are.
I think you'd be crazy to accept my offer, but then again, someone may find it appealing.
Can't hurt to talk so shoot me a PM if you like. - Thanks
Quoted from Chisox:Ah I see. Thankfully I get all my opinions and philosophies from a different podcast.
Ugh. Re-reading my post just now makes me feel a little guilty. Again...
I'm friends with Kaneda and I get a lot of enjoyment and entertainment from his podcast. And like many friends, we can disagree and sometimes argue.
Haggis is a bone of contention between us and sparks fly while texting.
While he's not always correct, he has a pretty good record along with the best rumors and inside scoops out there. If you scratch beneath the surface you realize he really works hard behind the scenes to a bring fresh perspective and interesting chatter.
He does lean towards the negative and sceptic side of things and he too often will beat a dead horse. But like any opinion out there, listeners should take a step back and assess it with a grain of salt. Then make your own determination.
The interesting thing about him going private on Patreon is his listeners can and do make comments in reply to his show. Aside from a few of his fanboys, some pretty thoughtful and sometimes sarcastic people there. They can and do give him some balance and hold him accountable.
$5 bucks a month, no contract and haters need not reply to my comment. Unless they really need to get it off their chest.
3 weeks later
3 weeks later
Quoted from Aqua1122:So I just got my invoice and have a question. Is everyone really wiring this money to them? Seems fishy. I paid the deposit through PayPal (Damian’s account). Not sure why I can’t just do the same or pay by cc.
I didn't hesitate for a moment. In fact, I wired the money within hours of getting notice. There is way too much positive evidence at this point not to if you want the game.
Quoted from Aqua1122:Seems fishy.
Good one
2 weeks later
No mention of Haggis in this article. Must be a conspiracy, right?
https://bestlifeonline.com/news-scuba-diver-rescued-women-in-mermaid-costumes/
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png 2 weeks later
I like Punkin a lot. He's a little ruff around the edges for some people so I get it, but I also find him insightful and very funny.
In private, both Punkin and Andrew (Oldskool1969) took extra time to assure this American about Haggis during some dark times several months ago.
That's the sort of thing that matters with me above all else.
Cheers
1 week later
Quoted from frankmac:If you don't mind how long after paying shipping was it before it was on the plane? Do you have tracking numbers. Thanks.
I bank wired the money to Haggis and it was on a DHL truck to the airport the next day. DHL then took over and emailed tracking numbers and a link to follow.
I just checked and my game has landed and in LA.
Quoted from Chisox:Any idea if they would discount multiple games being shipped at once to our area ? Mine is close and I know of another who’s game is ready within our 2 hour radius.
I asked that very question and was told DHL will not discount for two machines. ....As far as international flights are concerned.
Quoted from v8torino:LUK when it arrives, Pics or it didn't happen, Wink, Wink, Congrats Kim !!
Thanks, Kirk, I hope all is well.
Quoted from mjalexan:I wasn’t aware there was a significant amount of pull outs, was that the case?
Non-refundable deposits had a large effect on that. Still does. Some people sold their deposits at a loss.
There's been a lot of drama, on again, off again throughout this thread.
Quoted from mjalexan:Well aware, I’ve been here from the beginning. I haven’t heard of anyone abandoning a deposit so I was curious if that has been happening.
Why would anybody announce abandoning a deposit when so much shame and ridicule has already been dished out by Pinside?
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Just want to let all know that I appreciate Damien's quick responses and assistance in handling the recent transfer of my Mermaid pre-order!
I was sorry to see you go but totally understand. I'm still really happy about you finally getting your TBL after such a long haul.
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:If you ordered through a dealer in your country you can sue them for breech of contract and have more recourse.
In my opinion, if you're going to post your new machine in this forum, you should disclose purchase date, series holder status, invoice number and machine number.
Aussie customers have better options for legal recourse against Haggis. It's more limited internationally.
If you'd like to sell your spot, I'd like to buy it. I'll add a couple of hundred extra for your time.
Please email me.
Thanks
Quoted from paulbaptiste:Are you serious?? Your flipping one now for 30k and you want to purchase another for a few hundred dollars over cost? How generous... I hope no one contributes to this.
Then you buy his spot or someone else should. If he's so unhappy and talking about lawyers and lawsuits, then he needs to get out.
He's waited 12 weeks he said. I waited 5 months after paying my balance and others waited longer.
Here's my friend Tuna's post from 5 days ago. I suggest some of you study it.
It wasn't working for him, so he got out.
And his spot easily sold within a day.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:My Fathom Mermaid pre-order spot now officially listed for sale. As stated in my ad, I have been informed by Damian that my game "is towards the end of the build list" and expected to be built in Q2 2023.
UPDATE: Sale currently PENDING
Quoted from oldskool1969:Your wrong mate! USA is a new state in Australia apparently?
Everyone wants to be an Aussie
I'm checking out the Aussie dating sites so I can marry in.
Quoted from Cobray:Yep, they've showed up in the United States now...
[quoted image]
Oh shit, (giggle)
Thanks for the reminder to take my ad down. I couldn't take it any longer and unboxed my game days ago.
Quoted from dscapo:And for what it’s worth I can’t wait to upvote any and all people receiving a machine. Don’t care where or how it got there. Just post a pic or some info and take my upvote.
I need all of the up-votes I can get after my silly For Sale Ad.
I'm taking a series of pictures of the entire game but it's going to take me a while as I keep playing the damn thing. So, more to come.
In meantime I think all owners should post a picture like mine.
I'm gonna get my lady drunk and see if I can sneak an X rated pic passed the Moderators.
20221224_131717 smile (resized).jpgQuoted from punkin:Your heads on backwards. It must be quite distracting.
Our toilet water swirls clockwise.
What else you got
Quoted from underlord:I’m so jealous Kim. My MMRRE may be opened next year when my daughters room gets renovated. She moved downstairs to in law apartment. Congrats on a beyond beautiful pin.
Thanks, amigo. I enjoyed both of us causing trouble with our ads at the same time.
Quoted from MT45:Here’s some 1080p shot on my iPhone
One game, 5 mins!
I noticed in your video, that on the inner, outlane, on both sides, the ball shoots straight through and drains 100% of the time. My Haggis game does the same thing or at least it did until I modified it.
And that's not how the original game played or at least my original didn't. You should be able to nudge and save the ball on occasions.
My remedy is an easy, reversible mod and it works great. You can't save the ball every time, it's totally random like the original, but at least you have a chance on occasions.
(In my opinion, this is one of the many charms about Fathom game play)
And it **does not** effect the outer lane return at all. At least it doesn't on mine.
FYI. I did not have to bend or alter anything like the other people did for a previous, different problem.
FIrst picture shows the stock game with standard 3/8 rubber. Second picture shows the tapered posts I got from Titan Pinball to replace it with. Third picture shows the tapered post installed.
The modification looks huge in comparison, but the pictures are a bit deceptive. It is larger, as intended, but not ginormous as it appears.
**********************************************************************************************************
Edit/Add: After more testing, the ball is saved too often and will sometimes be saved without nudging. This is not how the game originally played. On my game, I have removed the tapered posts and returned the original 3/8 ring.
**********************************************************************************************************
Whiskey cheers from Mr. 68
1 zthumbnail_20221230_131123 (resized).jpg2Tapered Post-1200x1200 (resized).jpg3thumbnail_20221230_132507 (resized).jpg
Quoted from cooked71:It should drain more often than not IMO. It is after all the (reverse) outlane. Should be a challenge to stop it draining. Mr68 will
make it too easy?
Quoted from roar:I recall my orignal draining most of the time and only a well timed nudge would save it at the risk of tilting. The picture you’ve shared makes it look like you’ve closed the gap a lot, making that much easier to save.
Both valid concerns and I'm still experimenting.
The way it is now, I've gotten zero "cheat" saves. If I do nothing, the ball goes straight through.
I have to nudge to get it to work, but even then I'm saving the ball at a low/moderate rate. The ball will often nudge over, wobble in the gate like it's going to go and then come back out and drain. I love the drama of that.
Now, I will have to admit that I ran to this fix way too quickly and I really haven't given my game a chance to break in yet. But it's such an easy and reversible mod I thought I'd mention it after seeing his video.
I would enjoy feedback especially from you two guys if possible. And I will continue to experiment.
I'm having a Fathom open house party for Pinside next Wednesday and will change it back to original for that and observe. Or maybe I'll go half and half and get opinions.
Quoted from Mr68:I noticed in your video, that on the inner, outlane, on both sides, the ball shoots straight through and drains 100% of the time. My Haggis game does the same thing or at least it did until I modified it.
And that's not how the original game played or at least my original didn't. You should be able to nudge and save the ball on occasions.
My remedy is an easy, reversible mod and it works great. You can't save the ball every time, it's totally random like the original, but at least you have a chance on occasions.
(In my opinion, this is one of the many charms about Fathom game play)
And it **does not** effect the outer lane return at all. At least it doesn't on mine.
FYI. I did not have to bend or alter anything like the other people did for a previous, different problem.
FIrst picture shows the stock game with standard 3/8 rubber. Second picture shows the tapered posts I got from Titan Pinball to replace it with. Third picture shows the tapered post installed.
The modification looks huge in comparison, but the pictures are a bit deceptive. It is larger, as intended, but not ginormous as it appears.
**********************************************************************************************************
Edit/Add: After more testing, the ball is saved too often and will sometimes be saved without nudging. This is not how the game originally played. On my game, I have removed the tapered posts and returned the original 3/8 ring.
**********************************************************************************************************
I edited my original comment and added this:
**********************************************************************************************************
Edit/Add: After more testing, the ball is saved too often and will sometimes be saved without nudging. This is not how the game originally played. On my game, I have removed the tapered posts and returned the original 3/8 ring.
**********************************************************************************************************
Quoted from cooked71:Is there a bigger rubber you can put on the original post?
Man, you're scaring me. Its like youre reading my thoughts
No and I already tried. There are incrementally larger sizes, but the hole in them is too large so they wobble on the post. I even tried post sleeves...
What I'm experimenting with now, is the same tapered post from my original trial, only I have inverted it from how I used it before. See picture.
I have to trim that bottom extra ring off.
And for the record to anybody reading along. What I'm doing is a "cheat" plain and simple. My Haggis game has been built to perfect specifications regarding this area of the machine.
None of this has to be done unless you have a girlfriend that sucks at pinball and you want to ease her frustrations a bit and hang around longer...
And if that's the case, do my original suggestion.
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from Aurich:Haggis offers Fathom Revisited in three flavors. Original Clear Formula, New and Improved Acrylic, and Ranch Acrylic + Clear.
If you didn't specifically ask for clearcoat over your acrylic, which costs more, you probably don't have it.
Aurich is late to the party.
Quoted from MajorDrainer:Just got my Fathom.
It's beautiful but I've got a few issues.
Plunger only shoots ball halfway up shooter lane...gotta wait for auto launch. I saw someone else had this prob but I didn't see the solution posted.
Backbox displays scores but the windows for 'Match' and 'Ball in Play' are dark.
Ball has gotten stuck in pop by spinner twice on Day 1. Ball search does not free it.
I'd appreciate any help you can give me but please keep the technical stuff simple as I'm not the most mechanically inclined person in the world.
Thanks and Happy New Year.
On your shooter rod, make sure it is aligned straight and striking the ball dead center and following through. If that's not the issue, you probably need a stronger launch spring.
On your Backbox displays windows for 'Match' and 'Ball in Play', check all connecting wires on and to it. Unplug and reseat them snuggly.
Quoted from MajorDrainer:Ball has gotten stuck in pop by spinner twice on Day 1. Ball search does not free it.
On that stuck ball at the pop. Remove the rubber ring from the small metal post AND the plastic post next to it. Replace both of those with one single larger sized rubber connecting the two of them together. I would suggest a 3/8 inch rubber or a 7/16. I'm guessing so you'll need to play with it.
The only possible issue I can foresee in doing that, is if the rubber is too fat and it rubs against the spinner arm and locks it up.
But first, I recommend you continue to play it without changing anything. My game has been getting a lot of plays and I've not had that issue once.
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from dscapo:Data East had a part that was like a wire/ spring to prevent this. It’s on my Robocop. Just hooks around the post and blocks the gap. Very effective.
I would love to see a picture of that if possible.
Quoted from John_I:There is something more going on here if you look closely. The thick acrylic plexi that covers the playfield is cutout all the way around the pop bumper skirts creating a circular ledge all the way around the skirt. The ball looks like it is hung up on that edge, because the skirt is actually pushed below the level of the playfield surface? I may be wrong, but I've seen odd situations like this after adding playfield protectors to various games.
I assume the cutout in the playfield allows the pop bumper assembly to be removed from down below for ease of repair? If so, is there a way to adjust it or shim it so the whole assembly sits a little higher on the playfield?
I still would like to think that if the pop bumper switch was adjusted really tight, the ball would get kicked out before it made it back into the trap.
[quoted image]
Respectfully disagree, John.
Look how high up the ball is on the pop bumper skirt. Then, look at the mirror reflection on the pinball of the rubber post. That ball is wedge directly on that rubber post. (And the second rubber post but you can't see from that angle). Now, look at the downward strike plate on the top of the ball. That's a three way wedge in my view.
Lastly, I just inspected my game and ran my finger around that area. Yes that edge is there as you pointed out, but it should have zero impact on any part of the game, in my opinion.
Quoted from John_I:Yeah it is definitely wedged primarily by the post rubbers and getting trapped there. This MAY have nothing to do with the cutout under the skirt. Look again at the picture at how low the skirt is on the left side and how high it is on the right. The ball is sitting in a depression and looks a little low compared to the post rubber. Normally the skirt can't be pushed that low because the playfield is there instead of a cutout...and the ball could possibly roll off the skirt back into play.
I make my own playfield protectors for old EMs and SS games. I don't cut out under the skirts the way most of the companies that sell protectors do because I have run into funky issues. Even the slightest change in the tried and true skirt geometry and motion can cause issues. It means stripping the entire pop bumper off the playfield to install the protector, but it is worth it. And once again I think the issue in this case is a pop bumper switch that is not adjusted properly.
Yep, something to keep an eye on.
Food for thought. Haggis's 1st game, Celts, has pop bumpers also and has been out for a long time now with no such issues that I'm aware of.
Quoted from surfnrg:4. Ball sometimes bounces back into the ball trough. Then it may pop in 2 balls. Anyone else?
I would turn the coil strength on the up kicker down one setting, then another if that doesn't work.
1 week later
Quoted from Khabbi:For those keeping tabs, my air freight shipping to Florida via DHL, due today was $1848 US dollars.
My air freight shipping to LA and then truck'd to my front door in Colorado, was $1818 USD about a month ago. Weird in comparison but I'll take it.
Also, I've been playing my game a lot and with the exception of some minor tweaking, my game has been playing flawlessly.
But I'm not new to this hobby so I decided I wanted to put my Haggis machine to the test. So I posted an open house on the Pinside Colorado group and invited friends and strangers to come play it last Wednesday. I'll guess I had around 30-35 people here and we had non-stop, 4 player game after 4 player game on it.
Everybody loved the game and it played great until about an hour before my scheduled, last call. Suddenly the bottom 1/4 of the game went out and wouldn't restart. No lights, no flippers, no ball kick up, you get the idea.
I powered the game off, not wanting to work on it during a party and knowing I would lift the hood the following day. The next day I found the problem within 5 minutes as it was the most obvious thing to check for first. I had a blown fuse and the game is back to playing flawlessly again.
I've been buying NIB games for many years and from many different manufactures. The Haggis build quality, inside and out, is the finest I've ever seen.
2 weeks later
Quoted from mmr61184:What makes this game worth so much. Dont get me wrong its a beautiful looking game and if you got the cash to spend god bless you. In then end isnt it just a 1980s older style game with some updated software. I am not one to call anybody out for spending what they spend for me its more curiosity.
You've been in the hobby for 9 years, and you don't know? Especially with the price direction pinball has taken in the last 5-6 years?
41 year old Fathoms are selling in the $6,000 to $8,000 range and even more for a professionally restored one. These are Limited edition of 250 being made and you get 2 different coded games in 1.
I could go on but I think you might be yanking our chain.
Quoted from mmr61184:I been in the hobby for 9+ years true, but also have been on a hiatus for almost 4 years. Bought a new house, had a kid and work has been busy so I kind of fell out of the loop for a while. I have only jumped back in the last month or so, my brother took my T2 home that I partially restored and finished putting it back together and it lit a fire back under me. Now I am about to start restoring my TZ, TAF, IJ and TOM that have literally been sitting folded up in the corner of my 3rd floor since the day I moved in.
I have always loved the look a Fathom, your right it is one of the prettiest looking games. I guess I am out of touch with pricing since I haven't bought a pin in about 10 years. Still have a hard time believing that TAF and TZ are over 10K and that's on the low end
Welcome back
2 weeks later
Quoted from Cobray:Some people have reported 5-6 months after final payment FYI, but well worth the wait if you ask me..
I waited about 4 months for mine and you're right, well worth the wait.
I played mine again last night, and after each session, I will stand back and admire the entire machine with great pride.
Solid and quality construction, high end, fit and finish and the game plays smooth and fast. And the new code blows me away.
In our current price market of the Bond LE and Bond SLE, Fathom Mermaid is dollar for dollar, the best deal out there and in a class all to itself.
I'm another vote for Medusa being next but whatever it is, Haggis has earned my loyalty.
Go Haggis
My personal feeling is that Flash Gordon is highly unlikely to be made because that would involve a licencing fee and approval from film producer, Dino De Laurentiis, as well as the band, Queen, that did the theme song. And who knows, maybe even a licencing fee to King Features Syndicate, that owns the rights to the original Flash Gordon comics.
Haggis is a young company right now and already paying a rights fee to Planetary Pinball.
Quoted from Aurich:It's a pretty game, and it's fun enough, but a bit of a gimmicky title without a lot of long term gameplay appeal in my opinion.
It would seem that Aurich is clueless, a second time, concerning Haggis writing new code and Medusa having 2 games in 1, ala Mermaid Fathom.
Hi Aurich.
Quoted from Pinballrocks:The state of global shipping is still extremely volatile and has shifted greatly from when we first offered free shipping by container to PPS in Nevada, USA. We are still happy to honour that option, but we are also aware that some people will want their games quicker than it may take for us to fill a 40-foot container and have it shipped to PPS for on-shipping by yourself. As such, we are happy to discount any alternate shipping arrangements by the amount we had previously allocated ($250USD per game). e.g. DHL Express has been a reliable service for us over the last 12 months and we are happy facilitate the entire process on your behalf.
As we approach the boxing of your game, we can discuss further the best option for shipping.
If you have any questions, please let me know.
Kind Regards
_________________________________________________
Angela Hartin | Finance Manager | Haggis Pinball
Looks like standard procedure as that's the same notice I got many months ago. And its been posted here before.
Not sure if you have a question or not but I'm loving my game.
Quoted from wfumed2:Sorry if this has been asked before but does anyone know if there is a knocker kit that can installed on the Fathom Mermaid?
I don't have an answer for you but I found your question interesting. The original Bally Fathom had a knocker in the cabinet and Haggis did copy over the code for the Classic version. I've been playing the new code exclusively, so now I'm wondering if they might have a simulate knocker much like Stern went to many years ago.
And come to think of it, I don't recall what the match sound is in the new code...
Quoted from BackFlipper:I have now been paid in full for over 5 months without an update just to set expectations for those who are paying in full right now. I sent Damian an email today. Hope to get an update soon and will report back.
The wait was disappointing for me as well but it ended up all being worthwhile. I'm incredibly happy with the entire machine.
Reaching out to Damian is the proper method and there's nothing wrong with reporting back here even if you're disappointed.
You're not the first to be frustrated and I had assumed that the several month wait time was common knowledge by now.
I hope you get some good news.
Quoted from John_I:Just noticed that the cost of the Fathom Classic has gone from Au$9500 to Au$11,500 or roughly 20% increase. The Series Pass seems to be that same, but that's just a place holder. It's probably safe to assume that the next game will be at least 20% more than the Fathoms. This is not unexpected in today's world. Just pointing it out and not trying to be negative.
The price increase was predictable in my view. Once you see the fit and finish of these machines, you will understand what a great deal we all got.
I've taken pictures of the entire game inside and out for the Pinball Database. It takes a while for them to post as the curator, Jay, is meticulous in verifying everything and he has to set up a new category.
Once they post on the database I will let you guys know.
Lastly, that price increase won't slow me down a bit. Even with the increase, it will still be the best bang for the buck game out there IMO.
I posted this response in the other Haggis thread, which was suggested by the OP, an error, and so I've duplicated it over here.
>
>
You're not alone and I thank you for broaching the subject.
I also became involved with d0n before I learned who I was dealing with. We had some private banter back and forth before I realised the gravity of the situation. I terminated with d0n before getting too deeply involved. Like a scorned lover, I received profanity laced emails and weird revenge type comments.
And recently it got even more weird when d0n shared some of my private messages with a third party, who has chosen to take them out of context and exploit them.
I'm not proud of my conversation with d0n, but the bottom line is, none of our fantasy conversations were ever placed in action.
Imagine two drunks in a bar ginning each other up with an idea that doesn't really make sense in reality. No excuse from me, but I was one of those drunks that was sober and embarrassed the following day.
>
4 months later
Quoted from Ballypinball:OK if all remaining Fathoms are to be made by the end of the year I will bare my arse in Bourke street. Only way will be if idiots signup and pay money on another Pyramid scheme 100% trading whilst Insolvent
Some of those "idiots" you refer to are present or potential customers of yours.
Now, I don't know the laws in your country, but here in the states, calling Haggis a "Pyramid scheme" is libelous. And collectively, all of your misleading statements could be considered, tourchouse interference.
And weren't you the one that created the false, Bill the delivery driver story last year?
What I find most sad is, you, as an importer of American made products, seem intent on sabotaging an Australian business and your fellow countrymen.
Bad Move Human.
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