Quoted from roar:

Just took a look at the majority of the Bally MPU AS-2518-35 games and sorted by average price from Pinside...
A couple of licensed titles at the top of that list... I'd consider Voltan an outlier, not too many people have had a chance to play that one, but you'd think their 5 released would be found in the top 10 of that list.
[quoted image]
Even with code re-writes on them... I'm hard pressed to think someone would want to spend their asking price on the Mermaid edition when the original version is a third of the price or less for most of these games.

Quoted from Taygeta:

This is a giant gamble from a new and unknown entity. Had they included all the upgrades included in the Mermaid edition into just one model, I may've been interested at the $7400 pricepoint, but they're asking way too much for the new version of the game. As great as Fathom is, and as great as the new version could be, it isn't worth as much as a NIB Stern Premium.
If their price was a little lower and they resisted the tiered/LE model this company could absolutely be a contender with classic remakes. But enough of the peanut gallery is ponying up, so I guess this is the right price point for some.

Quoted from tbutler6:

In the club. Are we locked in at the conversion previously of 8900 or whatever it is or is it subject to change?
Assume it may change, that true?
Thanks

Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

$8k?!! Damn. So glad I can do my own playfield touch up, clear coating, cabinet repair, stenciling, and painting. I restored my Gorgar and Stern Dracula myself and between the two I have about $3500 into it including what I paid for them. I had to pay for MPU repair on both since I don’t know enough on how to repair them.

Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

THIS^^^^
Voltan would be an excellent choice for reproduction for several reasons:
1) Rare title & hard to find
2) Already has a killer lost David Christensen art package
3) It has a basic layout & has lame lame sounds/rules, but that could be VASTLY improved with new code.
Same goes for Spectrum. A unique killer-art package with tons of insert options that could be recoded into a whole new game. I'd bang out Centaur & EBD first though.

Quoted from mjalexan:

Has anyone imported a new game to the US from Australia that could comment on taxes or tariffs? 9504.30.0020 has no tariff so I’m assuming there isn’t any tariff applied. Would sales tax be state dependent and claimed by the buyer on tax returns?
I feel kind dumb asking this since I’ve been exporting for 15+ years....

Quoted from roar:

Someone early on mentioned they were order 100 or something like that, so if it is orders from the beginning of time for Haggis and a number of those orders were two orders, one for membership and one for the game, they could still have a ways to go to sell out... I'm holding out, hoping it sells out before I succumb to the hype

Quoted from cooked71:

I’d doubt anyone joined the club after sales became open to the public, so likely a little higher than that.

Quoted from jcg9998:

I think at this stage, Haggis can probably make quite a few of the titles from the 1981 time period and sell 250 special editions if the game has at least as many additional features as the Mermaid edition. However, because of the low market values of many of these games, they would probably struggle to sell classic editions. I think everyone agrees that Centaur will sell as well as Fathom. I think the same would hold true with many popular games from all era's. 250 is not a lot of games to sell worldwide. In fact, I'm wondering if this is going to inspire other boutique or new companies to try the same thing.

Quoted from LTG:I'd get confirmation from them if this is correct.
LTG : )

Quoted from Bublehead:

If you married the right wife, then the WAF is not a problem... but I can see your point, however, there may be a few hundred biker chicks who would love it, so there is always hope. From a players standpoint, Centaur is a killer ruleset from that period, and the people I know who can get it rocking and rolling have never walked away unsatisfied. Most times, it takes a real Centaur wizard to show you the ropes, then it all makes sense, and you find yourself wanting to play it even more. I find the reflex to push the credit button is high with Centaur, EBD, Xenon. After playing a Williams Flash, however, it became harder and harder to live with Bally flippers and my quarters started falling into williams machines, almost exclusively.

Quoted from Pinzzz:

I love the idea. and i am in on a ME.
This week in pinball May 17, 2021
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-5-17-21-the-mandalorian-reveal-george-gomez-talks-dimples-and-alternative-materials-and-alien-streams/
"On dimpling and materials, and polycarbonate and the thickness of it and how that changes targets and gameplay:"
"George Gomez: You can make it work, those guys in Europe put the plastic on the playfields, which by the way I think is absolutely atrocious. We spend so much time trying to make a pinball machine feel the way it does and shoot the way it does. And then these guys come and add a sixteenth of an inch and everybody says “oh, it’s just a couple millimeters”…yeah I know, but the position of your drop target or your standup target or your ramp flap, whatever, relative to the – you didn’t move the target up, so the ball is hitting the target at a different place, at a different height…[and] on the plastic, the ball tends to slide as opposed to roll on certain shots. When it skips, forget about it…it is a wild ball. That is the issue with the polycarbonate solution."

Quoted from gdonovan:

I played one game with a hardtop and vowed never to own a game with one.
He is utterly correct, the ball displayed some very odd behavior at times off the slings which I did not care for at all. It was very notable to me, I have not noticed this behavior on any of the pins I own with regular playfields, mylar protected playfields or clear coated playfields.
While I appreciate the product being available to the market, its not a product I would use personally so it isn't a weak argument at all.

Quoted from Mr68:

and I can't imagine anyone having a *horrible* experience from playing it. lol

Quoted from Chambo:

I’m just jumping in here because I’m an Aussie too
Congrats to all buyers. Personally, I’m torn - and short of cash after LZ and GNR

Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

I'll be surprised if they remake Paragon as it's a Super Widebody. Certainly worthy though - great game!
Centaur and Flash Gordon are tops on my list. I might even consider replacing my excellent EBD with a remake that has additional code.

Quoted from bigd1979:

I hope there are no other charges? I was under the impression that they were right around 8900 shipped to pps and then we pay shipping from there and that was it?

Quoted from dscapo:

Am I the only one that felt slightly less enthusiastic about where things are production wise with Fathom? I understand the need to get Celts out, I understand the shipping and parts and lockdown constraints… I was not aware that they had to reverse engineer components or custom build things like rollover switches for Fathom. It sounds like they are admittedly trying to figure everything out as they go.
I don’t think that once the last Celts leaves, the Fathoms will start flowing through the building as I had anticipated.
This last update made it sound a year away, not a couple months.
I have faith that they can do it but I now believe preorders were way premature.

Quoted from simbob:

Folks, Melbourne, Australia - where Haggis is located- is still in the longest and strictest Covid lockdown that has happened anywhere on the planet. In about 3 weeks Melbourne will open up again and I would expect that can get a serious tilt on getting things moving then. Cut them a little slack, I think they have done a great job so far in incredibly difficult circumstances.

Quoted from CubeSnake:

Do I believe that Haggis will develop/produce/deliver Fathom? Likely. Will anyone see one in their home in 2022? No f'ing way.
Wasn't it mentioned somewhere on PinSide to never ever, not EVER pre-pay for a pin? Yea, I thought so.....

Quoted from c818919taylor:

Who knows maybe this enterprise will actually have the code done before shipping.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I got no money in on a Fathom. But I would suggest having the next update with staff working on games. Seems like history with Andrew Heighway, no employees! The latest video seems very staged. Covid has screwed manufacturing around the world. Still no real update or pictures shown of the parts required to start Fathom production. Just like Deeproot who went through multi millions of dollars & showed us very little.

Quoted from d0n:

I didn't get my xmas package or the email saying that builds are finally happening. Humph!

Quoted from Cheeks:

Unfortunately nothing...including the number of Fathoms built.
When they're 7+ months late and they can't/won't show a major feature of why many bought the game, it doesn't instill confidence. They either don't have much to show, or aren't as proud of what they have as I'd hope.
Between the new rules, new audio, visual assets on the LCD screens, etc. there is a lot they *could* show, and a lot of unknown in regard to how well it's handled. To me, proper customer service would say "Sorry we took your money and made promises we didn't keep, but we're late due to circumstances out of our control. Take a look at the cool things we're doing with your game while you wait."
I've been a part of more pre-orders than I'd care to admit, so I'm NOT impatient. But the secrecy is weak - no way around it.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I just wish more weekly info was posted up on what is or not going on there. Hope for the best, did Andrew Heighway produce more Full Throttle pins compared to Celts?

Quoted from MJK-911:

Why haven’t we seen a completed working Fathom ? There has to be at least 1 game that works 50-60% ? Why not show us something ? No, I still haven’t received my Celts that was told would ship Jan-1. So I reached out and got a response from Damion that said 1- more week which means 2-23-2022 i should get an email for shipping payment. What about the new code for Fathom ? Developing code doesn’t require hard materials, you would think its completed ?

Quoted from d0n:

JJP won't be there with Toy Story.

Quoted from meSz:

Whilst I believe Haggis will deliver the games I think you have to ask yourself, why order now and have a deposit tied up?

Quoted from frankmac:

Out of the 250 Mermaids how many of the real buyers or even in this thread?

Quoted from d0n:

I thought they were supposedly done making Celts? how are they making fathom if they're still making celts?

Quoted from Haymaker:

All I hear when I'm reading this is "I wasn't around to see the exact same thing happen with like 5+ other pinball manufacturers who ended up not really delivering anything so I guess this is fine". Will this be a total loss like Skit-b, deeproot, zidware, ect? A partial loss like Heighway or Dutch who still I guess technically still slowly churn out games that people ordered several years ago and are skating by by the skin of their teeth, or will it be like Spooky, pretty much the only manufacturer that was able to pull this feat off so far? Time will tell, but I know this much: All these excuses, all the goodwill and wishful thinking even the "great direct communication!", it was all there for all these other companies too, and it didn't turn out good. Nobody should be shamed for being skeptical about this.

Quoted from Haymaker:

I specifically addressed the companies that put out "something". Putting out a handful of games like Haggis has barely qualifies as anything. Heighway put out a few games too. You're essentially putting your fingers in your ear and going LALALALALALAALA to miss my point. CGC and AP don't really count, they are pretty serious companies not boutique manufacturers IMO, not to mention decades of real world experience in pinball design and manufacturing with their staff.
Also worth noting: arguments like this have happened a million times over every time too. This is Deja Vu times a million.

Pinball brothers is lumped in with Heighway.

Quoted from Haymaker:

Comparing CGC to any of these startups is disingenuous at best and probably more likely- just ignorant and dumb

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

All people want is some updates good or bad. Going totally silent for months is bad, compared to lots of info previously. When you start taking deposits you better get more info out, & have a PR spokesperson.

Quoted from Haymaker:

Hot take: at this point, yes they do.

Quoted from Haymaker:

You're right its not my $$ I just hate having the door open to scams

Quoted from jgentry:

The last 2 might still be hard to sell a ton of.

Quoted from Mr68:

My excitable friend Kaneda is calling it red flags and I wholeheartedly disagree.

Quoted from flynnibus:

I don't think anyone is challenging their margins... except if you are questioning their low volume. But they are also low overhead. I think what the postulate is (at least what I threw out there) is that the OPPORTUNITY is there and changed dramatically since their initial launch plan. Does it make more sense to seize that opportunity and sell something different (with better margin.. yes) to capitalize on that opportunity.
I'm not questioning their margin - I'm just saying there is a lot of opportunity and maybe they would be better served to pivot and grab that opportunity.

This gets you into the classic pinball quagmire of scorned buyers... people who bought something with the assumption of 'exclusivity' - even if not explictly promised. The mindset is if you go back and undercut your previous buyers, you risk future buyer confidence. And yes, you would need the screens+apron plus other mechs (like the auto plunger) for Mermaid.

Quoted from d0n:

No one thinks it's strange that Bill the driver wasn't allowed inside the facility when picking up Fathom... like he had been in the past when he picked up Celts for transport?

Quoted from d0n:

People who have a paid preorder care. People who have paid in full really care. Which camp are you in?

Quoted from d0n:

Not jealous just surprised that you haven't heard any of this yet about Bill not being allowed in the facility? I didn't hear it directly from Bill himself but it does seem more likely than not to have happened. People don't just make that kind of story up and then go around saying it publicly on the internet.

Quoted from d0n:

I'm merely pointing out how late they are, how they've gone silent and how transparency has changed so drastically since Celts.

Quoted from d0n:

I'm a realist and too honest to do that.
Haggis could still come through but I honestly think we've all been duped. I'm calling it... Haggis T.O.D. 19:00 5/20/2022
I think the SH*T is slowly hitting the fan for haggis.
I already quoted you so your edit/deleted post is overridden. Sorry. [quoted image]

Quoted from d0n:

No one trusts him now.

Quoted from dscapo:

Two at least

Quoted from d0n:

I would not buy another fathom spot right now even if it were offered at half price.

Quoted from rai:

Can anyone summarize the situation?? If I was to buy somebody’s spot, is there a worry about if the games will be built and shipped?

Quoted from Mr68:

Post #4453 is missing from this thread so it must have been a doozy. And it looks like Don has deactivate his account.
[quoted image]

Quoted from ultimategameroom:

I don’t judge others by their clothes,cars, homes. Hell I drive a 23 year old Toyota Land Cruiser

Quoted from Mr68:

Maybe crack a beer and giggle for a moment. Guarantee he will be back on Pinside long before Christmas.
But maybe not back in this thread. I didn't see what he posted.

Quoted from mjalexan:

Holy chit, someone finally put a wheel on there!?
[quoted image]

Quoted from Boof-Ed:

So have you guys just been asked for full payment?

Quoted from Pinchild:

They have Not reached out to me.
I was on board immediately when announced.
Approximately 2 to 3 days after announcement.
Ordered directly from Haggis.
Still not worried
Just letting everyone know.

Quoted from Pmaino:

I am the third mermaid after the series ticket holders are done. I have paid in full and expect to have my game done at the end of this month.

Quoted from punkin:

You need to drink better whiskey. It'll save you drinking the mixer.

Quoted from Jecco74:

It has arrived. Hopefully you guys get yours soon.
[quoted image]

Quoted from PinBackpacker:

My email was from today and bounced.

Quoted from cooked71:

[quoted image]

Quoted from Rizmo:

Do we know when Haggis will confirm their next game? Also how long does it take to get a game from Australia to the states. That would be a big hold up for me if I am waiting a year for a game.

Quoted from Roostking:

Especially if people feel they're gonna go under(Haggis) and they have a super limited game.

Quoted from roar:

I'm still half expecting another "Limited" run of these just under a different name, like the "Siren Edition". A different colorway that gets the new code out to more people and makes them more money. Jersey Jack has done that with all of their different "Limited" runs of WOZ, Ruby Red, Emerald, Flying Monkey... why can't Haggis do the same?

Quoted from Aurich:

After seeing the possibilities of the 2.0 code I honestly wouldn't buy a machine without it. The other version feels gimped to me now. Especially after looking at the feature matrix and seeing it has all the same RGB lighting, but it's just set to emulate the original lamps. Feels like a waste to buy that, knowing that it's basically just a software difference.
Maybe it makes sense for their business model. Clearly they're not able to pump out games at a crazy rate. But if I could come back later and get the 2.0 game I'd consider it. Not buying from a flipper, that's for sure.

Quoted from Aurich:

Haha, I dunno, anyone with a little common sense would way rather have the new Pinball Bros version vs that Heighway one I sold NIB. The build quality, cabinet design, the proper non-gimped LV art package, all superior with the new ones. You lose the playfield screen, but to be honest I never loved it in the first place.

Quoted from paulbaptiste:

Just letting the tears flow.....
Pictures are pretty much in order from seeing him open the door with damage to the box, to unloading and verifying damage...then sending the thing away...
I've never had a worse freight experience, and this has nothing to do with the damage. If it would've came in perfect shape I'd feel the same. 5 days of "Out for delivery", 20 some phone calls, countless emails, escalated tickets through customer service...Not a single phone call returned from DHL. Then they call me today and tell me they can't deliver to a residence, they don't have a liftgate. How many people run a business or have a friend somewhere to navigate that problem? And then it arrives... Seriously...Never had an experience like this.
Spoke with Damien on the phone and he is hard at work to rectify my shitty situation.
What a disapointing day my Fathom friends..
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from paulbaptiste:

They are talking with DHL. No idea what will happen to the damaged game. It just happened an hour ago, but was happy enough to get a call from Damien within 10 minutes of me sending an email about what happened. They will get me squared away and keep me updated on what the plan is.
Believe me, I wanted it to be inconsequential enough to keep the game. It's not. It punctured the cab and went through the bottom of the game. I've waited long enough for this I don't want to have to repair and color match the cabinet. I don't want to repair anything. I want a complete, unblemished game. That was part of the reason for paying an to having it airfreighted to my home.

Quoted from Khabbi:

I think I posted in the owners section instead of this one, but I got my notification that my Mermaid Edition is finally shipping! Can't wait!!
For those keeping tabs, my air freight shipping to Florida via DHL, due today was $1848 US dollars. That's with the adjustment for the sea shipping that was included. No doubt with the adjustments to the US dollar this game is costing me a little more than I expected... but I believe it will be well worth it!

Quoted from mmr61184:

In then end isnt it just a 1980s older style game with some updated software.

Quoted from BackFlipper:

I have now been paid in full for over 5 months without an update just to set expectations for those who are paying in full right now. I sent Damian an email today. Hope to get an update soon and will report back.

Quoted from Boof-Ed:

It’s more about the final balance date than the deposit date. Most people bought them in the first 2 weeks from release.

Quoted from roar:

Not quite sure what either are doing technically but neither are the first to put plastic on top of artwork… Slugfest did it and I think there was an early 80’s Bally that did it too.

Quoted from Grantman:

Does anyone have any idea how many they are making each month (now), or how close they are to completing the Mermaid editions?

Quoted from cooked71:

Wtf?

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can somebody tell me what the F a "partner offering" is?
Is it the sacrificing of a spouse to try to appease the pinball gods?