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Why don't they all stop Digital printing and go back to Screen Print, with Specialty Coating Williams used and decent clearcoat, works for Chicago Gaming.
(Topic ID: 292168)
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Fathom (Classic Edition)
Haggis, 2021-
Fathom (Mermaid Edition)
Haggis, 2021
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2 months later
7 months later
Quoted from lachied:Good to see a flipping video. All my hard work finally seeing the light of day.
A you the one who no longer works there? Lachlan
Left with Lucas, Scott and Dion all gone
Quoted from frobozz:There was a point after Williams and Bally had merged that the stamping die for the Williams lockdown bar broke. The one they'd been using for decades. Someone (I believe it was Jim Patla) had the bright idea to switch over to the Bally shell (with the Williams latch parts welded to it), rather than paying the exorbitant amounts of money to get a new die made for the Williams shape. And that is the one that is being used to this day for Williams/Bally lockdown bars.
And the Lockdown die for safecracker was modified for Pinball2000
Quoted from Pmaino:Just got my invoice for my Mermaid. 8 weeks to make from payment.
There is no way as long as my arse points to the ground your game will be shipping in 8 weeks, happy to make bets with people.
Quoted from ultimategameroom:I bet all Mermaid machines and quite a few STD models will be delivered in less than two years from today.
Haggis has manufactured and delivered pinball machines in a fairly short period of time.
You had my MMR deposit money for over 8 years before you finally sold the project to PPS!
Did you even have a playable/working prototype after 8-9 years?
Yes and a heap of Made games and spares
IMG_3683 (resized).jpgIMG_4927 (resized).jpg 3 weeks later
Quoted from swampfire:You just made $1500 selling something you never even owned. I wouldn’t be complaining about a $55 fee if I were you.
2 people in Australia just sold a C8 corvette and made $100k each
I think its about time to send them a care pack, parts to build 20 games at a time. This make every part for a low production is insane.
Quoted from visualmagic:I chose #030 after the other numbers I asked for were taken already.
My logic was if I couldn't get a very low number or a gag number like #069 I'd go for a multiple of 10.
That number will carry through to the season of releases, #030 on each game.
I was also offered #123 which I almost took as it matched the drop targets but decided on the lower #030 in the end.
I paid a couple weeks ago after being advised my game has entered testing.
I've also spoken to Damien after my flood event here that drowned a few of my games, him kindly offering to assist any way he could. I've always been confident he's on track.
Hope that answers your question.
That's Great news look forward to you unboxing this game in a week once you have received it.
1 week later
Quoted from fastpinball:Yep! Fathom is using our FAST Modern Platform so replacement boards will be our standard boards.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Love to see the 250 plus sets of boards shipped to Australia
Quoted from Micky:Why are you here being a troll Wayne? Didn't you fail at delivering the medieval madness machines you promised. You're obviously here to just try and cause trouble as per your below post.
If you knew 1% of what i know it would send you into a Spin. Rather be smart enough to realize not to use customers money like all the rest have and failed.
2 weeks later
Quoted from visualmagic:That's a pretty simple story.
Wayne had the only one in Australia. I'm an optimist who has been following the work in the Netherlands getting these going and I hope to put in the hours to follow their steps.
I reached out to Wayne who had it listed, and he kindly allowed me to purchase it at a fair price.
I've been collecting a few notes from Eric Bartels in the Netherlands until I find time to work on it.
I don't imagine the project will be quick. The game is basically unplayable until the works are done.
But I knew that on purchase so had built that into my expectations.
Cost about 1.5 that of an LE, and it's not only a curio, but a beautiful looking game with potential to restore to it's intended outcome. With only 1 of 1 in Australia I justified it to myself. After works I can't see me losing on it.
Certainly pretty!
I still have a Wizard Blocks and a Croc Hunter Prototype and Oktoberfest Proto
1 year later
Quoted from Pinballer31520:Email just in :
You may have recently seen that we released a short teaser video eluding to an imminent release announcement for our next game (video link below)
While more will be explained at the official release, manufacturing your Fathom Revisited game is still our number one priority. We have continued to invest heavily in our process management and production capabilities and are on track to have all Fathom Revisited games completed before the end of this year.
Your ongoing patience and support continue to be greatly appreciated and crucial to our continued success in building the highest-quality games in the world. With the announcement of our next title, we will further cement our position as a Pinball Manufacturer of choice and ensure that we continue to provide an unmatched gaming experience for all our customers in the future.
OK if all remaining Fathoms are to be made by the end of the year I will bare my arse in Bourke street. Only way will be if idiots signup and pay money on another Pyramid scheme 100% trading whilst Insolvent
1 week later
Quoted from gold1:One should be careful when making comments like this because that bare arse just might get bitten
Unlike Haggis I have the money to support my comments.
when are Haggis going to give the Fathoms they owe to all that created the game and promised.
Where is Lachlan, where is Scott where is Stuart, where is Greg, where is Duck Pinball all that are left are dumb and dumber
Quoted from Mark000:Hopefully Haggis starts to make some profits now with the release of Centaur. Fathom Mermaid was a bargain buy at $12650 AUD. I was quoted $18000 AUD from the Australian Distributer of Chicago Gaming a few weeks ago for Cactus Canyon Remake Se plus now thats a rip off.
Thats Bullshit they are under $15k AUD the LE and SE+ were $17,990 try and bring one in yourself Cheaper
Quoted from oldskool1969:Did you think or read again before you responded Wayne?
Maybe it is just me re the pricing
I read fine, if you don't like the prices you can bring one in yourself, we sell more CGC games than any other Distributor in the World outside the USA, all Distributors have to buy an SE for each LE and shipping has gone from $300 a game to $800 a game and thats in containers, 2 x games cost $2700 not in a container. Happy to sell you one at the same US are selling for and you can bring it in yourself.
Quoted from Mancave:Why are you so seemingly bitter about Haggis Wayne?? Did you lose out somehow?? Is it purely just jealousy?? Like why so negatively invested in what they do cause it doesn't make sense
6 months later
Quoted from Boof-Ed:At least we didn’t have to see this Wayne.
Yes my Naked ass is safe, but i knew it would be, the bad news is coming, i know a Distributor who paid in full 7 months ago and no sign of any games. Market if shifting nobody is buying pre ordered overpriced games from people who won't fund their own business.
Quoted from kklank:Yeah I have to agree on this one. It sounds like COVID restrictions were a lot more intense than the US by the Aussie government.
I’m a little more concerned as to how their staffing has been post Covid. The volume of games being produced monthly doesn’t seem to have multiplied as fast I thought it would at this stage, I’d love to hear an update on their increase in personnel and what their goals are for the future.
It’s a difficult crossover being an owner and doing everything from janitor to accountant to line worker to CEO to only recruiting, staffing and training. Not all owners are equipped to do so and commit or are willing to reinvest in the company while living on nothing to make this happen.
I’m not suggesting they’re not doing anything right but at this point it seems they have the majority of the process in place and they leased a much larger space. From a distance, it appears they are at their crossroad of moving to the next level and it’s very very hard.
I wish them the best and I’m a big supporter.
I am sick of reading this Covid Shit, I am 10 mins from Haggis and we worked everyday during Covid all Legal with work permits, Covid had no effect only excuses.
Quoted from gold1:See you have returned to shit stir again.Not sure what your beef is?Got my machine last week........or was it just the cardboard box? Better check................................
Well someone who has been in the Industry for 30 years
There is no Reason to Pay anything more than a Small Deposit until the bloody game is built! If you need money to run your business go get a loan or mortgage your own house instead of using customers interest free loans.
Customers are all un secured creditors with no chairs when the music stops.
I am Glad you got your game but many who have paid in Full haven't.
Maybe we should start a list of who has paid in full and how much and still waiting, I bet it adds up pretty quick.
Quoted from Wariodolby:Next Knapp story??[quoted image]
Well Stern Found a Buyer
JJP Found a Buyer
Heighway Found a Buyer
Why Not Haggis, they already have an Investor Partner
Quoted from jardine:Don't you have someone to complain to in front of the person you are complaining to? Dill!
Or threatening someone of revoking their warranty if they on sell a game.
Quoted from jardine:Don't you have someone to complain to in front of the person you are complaining to? Dill!
Or threatening someone of revoking their warranty if they on sell a game.
Yes Jarrod If a flipper wants to sell a LE or CE game the new owner won't get warranty Simple, Original Purchaser only, Got to stop you Dills ripping fellow pinball collectors off. What do you care you don't own a Haggis Game or anything I sell.
Quoted from jardine:As for this point....that's you as well. You've been doing this for ages. You're just getting hurt that some people in the hobby do it better than you! lol. NO wonder JJP and the likes don't want to deal with you anymore. Slippery slop it seems, Wayne.
I parted ways with JJP not the other way around, all because of the shit Playfields Mirco makes. I don't feel comfortable selling games with known problems. I don't need the money, Those who want to profit by flipping LE games won't get another game. Tail between my legs what a joke, won't change the fact once it changes hands it's game over. I don't hide behind fake profiles.
Quoted from roar:Let me know if I interpreted this correctly. You will not offer warranty support to a second buyer of a game you originally sold, that would otherwise have warranty support, in an attempt to protect the buyer from having to overpay? So by protecting them they actually get less protection because they can’t but the game from you originally?
most manufacturers are the same STERN ™ PINBALL INC. FACTORY LIMITED WARRANTY :
STERN PINBALL INC. SELLER WARRANTS ONLY TO THE INITIAL PURCHASER OF ITS
PRODUCTS
I offered to buy the game back and supply it to a new owner with full warranty the flipper just wants the profit.
and Attention Pinball Enthusiasts,
It has come to our attention that many new Stern pinball games are being sold privately in Australia at inflated prices.
Whilst there is nothing we can do to control this and for the benefit of the pinball community at large, buyers need to be aware that private sellers/auctioneers are not governed by the same consumer laws as legitimate suppliers/manufacturers/businesses.
AMD’s warranty has been and continues to be non-transferable between ownership.
If you buy a new pinball from a private seller/auctioneer, your recourse is with whom you buy the game from.
AMD will always continue to support all new Stern Pinball games with service, parts and technical support, however warranty is not transferable between ownership.
This is not an invitation for discussion or debate, buyers just need to be aware.
Quoted from Mancave:And i think that is the crux of the biscuit when it comes to Wayne's obvious "distaste" for Haggis, considering he was the rights holder for Bally some time ago.
You would think that an Aussie businessman would be morally behind a fellow Aussie business instead of being so outrightly bitter and negative, even given the fact that Haggis is a competitor (not directly) as previously stated by Punkin. Wayne is just FKN jealous that Haggis got the ball rolling on redoing older Bally machines and maybe it's also partly due to his own failed attempt to get a home made machine off the ground. It's so obvious it's cringe worthy!!
You are 100% wrong I still assist several Licensees with help and the more manufacturers the better, I hope they make thousands of games, it's taking full payments and not supplying games is what i have a problem with.
No need to pay 100% upfront and wait 6-12 months for any game.
I still have certain rights which I won't make public as it formed part of the agreement and our working relationship.
PPS paid me a lot of money and should be able to get a return on that investment. Remember the more manufacturers the more games and parts I sell, so why would i be against any Pinball Manufacturer licensed or not, makes no sense.
Quoted from gold1:You keep saying that you have a shitload of money,lay it on the table produce your own line of pinballs stop shit canning others and I ask again why are you on this thread?
Why are you here, How is your Heighway Alien Going, Because like PPS more money in Licensing parts and sales than manufacturing
So its ok for them to Promise to deliver a Product in 6 weeks if full payment is made 7 months ago but deliver nothing and that puts pressure financially and even refund requests are ignored, it will all come out where is Kaneda.
I think Damien should spend less time on his failed property venture https://hartlandplace.com.au/ and more on getting these paid in full orders out.
2 weeks later
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:This is sad for the companies and the buyers. Wish it would ask work out.
Head2head was the goat pinball podcast and I miss Ryan C. What a guy
Ryan C has nothing to do with Haggis, Its Marty who works for Haggis, I feel sorry for him. Using Bally IP adds credibility to a company like any licenses, they needed to do the spooky model, buy parts to build 20 games at a time from a Parts Supplier. Not manufacture every part themselves and re invent the wheel like their flipper bats that break. They can't slow down any slower than a couple of games a week other than close down the factory and go back to making 1-2 games a week from Home, reduce overheads.
Quoted from Ballypinball:Ryan C has nothing to do with Haggis, Its Marty who works for Haggis, I feel sorry for him. Using Bally IP adds credibility to a company like any licenses, they needed to do the spooky model, buy parts to build 20 games at a time from a Parts Supplier. Not manufacture every part themselves and re invent the wheel like their flipper bats that break. They can't slow down any slower than a couple of games a week other than close down the factory and go back to making 1-2 games a week from Home, reduce overheads.
Also what about tax payers money Government Grants $16,000 and $30,000 and $50,000 and Tax offset Export Grants,
Quoted from gold1:Now is your chance to be the white knight.You have mentioned previously that you have plenty of money.
Yes and will Deal with The liquidators at that time, already have leading Pinball People sorted and have for some time.
Licensees need to have conditions in their agreements, Deposits only can be collected and Balance when game is ready to ship, nobody should be able to start up a Pinball Business without using any of their own money, If the Bank won't lend you money and you don't have faith putting in any of your own money, why should others fund it. They are all unsecured Creditors.
1 week later
Quoted from oldskool1969:Go on I’m listening
In Australia if you owe the landlord past 60 days they can lock you out and take and sell all the assets to recover the rent.
Quoted from punkin:Why is it any of your, or his business? And why do you think it's ok to talk about it in public, seeing as neither of you are a party to any discussion??
Wayne should be ashamed to even be posting in this thread, let alone spreading shitty rumours about his competitors.
It's a fucking disgrace.
How exactly are Haggis a Competitor? They don't sell any games I sell, and i don't make pinballs, and i can promise you I sell more pinballs a year than Haggis. Also what rumour did i post, someone asked about landlord, I just said a landlord can take possession of the property if rent is not paid.
I can say one thing, you should be ashamed, I am helping people get their games, i have 4 in my building now, want to see pictures.
Quoted from oldskool1969:just tweaked and cleaned my Fathom 2.0 for the upcoming
WEST COAST PINBALL FESTIVAL here In Perth W.A.
I hope people get the pleasure that I get out of playing a great machine with standard and revisited code. [quoted image]
these game numbers are not built in order
the 4 i have here are 60 numbers apart
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:Mermaid Fathom paid in full, $9,995.00, as of May 11, 2023, to Phil at Pinball Heaven. Beautiful machine, no doubt, but I am about done waiting.
I would say i have your game here shipping to phil soon
I think the license holder needs to have a 3rd party looking after Distribution here, customer asked for the balance, and balance only paid when game can be collected by the 3rd party. We can't have another Company Fail costing customer money. It can send distos broke as well.
I am sure if you reach out to the rights owners or License owners they will advise not to send anymore money at this time until outstanding customers orders are up to date.
And no way pay Balances on the next game.
Quoted from wcbrandes:Anyone want to post the "hiding behind pay wall where I know everyone loves me", part of what Flip N Out is doing with your deposits and or full payments, partial etc.? In other words the private discussion on Haggis. It still sickens me that they think non refundable means well tough luck no matter what either suck up the loss or sell your spot, which we all know is virtually impossible! I would be gathering all the written or typed promises on "timing" and it can be in any form and not necessarily on the "contract". Was there nothing written on when the deposits would go from A to B or straight to B (Haggis) and when you would expect your game etc? Once these promises are broken and for what period after the "promise" was broken, will all be important for demanding full payment back. IMHO
I would say the Minute they announced and started taking deposits for the 2nd game all deposits became refundable on game 1, also if the game was quoted as 6-8 weeks after Balance is paid and failed then refund in Full is what is required, ACCC and consumer affairs Australia have confirmed this and will act to recover any payments made, they also stated they can only act on deposits paid directly not via a Distributor and that Distributor is liable to return the deposits by law, Unless you signed a waiver stating you gave the Distributor the right to pay Haggis and if Haggis fail to supply a game you will lose your money and such money will be non refundable.
Quoted from ultimategameroom:Hang in there!
I and I’m sure a few others in this thread had $2500 deposits (which was 50% of total cost) sit for 10 Years on the MMR project. I chose the refund option when the project changed hands but the machines were finally built (at a higher cost).
You need Serious Intestinal Fortitude to get involved in these projects.
Stop Talking shit, if rights were purchased in 2005 and didn't start MMR till 2006 and then changed hands in 2010 and fully refundable deposits, not NON refundable and all in a Trust account, also original buyers paid less for the CGC remake than anyone else as it was part of the sale contract.
I was smart enough to see no great end of the road manufacturing pinballs in Australia without going Bust, Haggis should have had them made in the USA by AP or CGC or many other contract manufacturers, I mean all the Fast boards are from the US and many other parts, labour is cheaper in the usa and no expensive shipping parts from the USA to AUD and then back to the USA thats nuts!
1 week later
Quoted from gold1:So then the 210 machines made and delivered makes no difference to your thoughts?
You are so full of shit
so everyone who has received these 210 Fathom games please post here name and game number
How about you Put your money where your big mouth is Gold 1 , I will donate $5,000 to the royal childrens Hospital if you can find even half that bullshit list and i challenge you to do the same.
Quoted from punkin:No worries. You have your Bally and i'll have my Haggis. All good.
The reason they didn't fill a container was because nobody wanted to wait.
If you guys had of cooperated and went without for a little while waiting for each other and looking after your brothers backs, the container would have filled in a couple of months.
Thats crap, 33 games fit in a container and only 21 were shipped nov 2023 in a 20ft container, the problem is the games were not ready, even if they only made 2 a week people waited more than 3 months for a game to be shipped. Even spooky build all Australian Games at the same time.
I wish all these fanboys could be held accountable for deception.
Quoted from gold1:Seems you know better.How many do you reckon have gone out???????
I know how many, and its not 210 or even half that., you just reminded me to change the batteries on my spy camera
Quoted from thekaiser82:Not trying to cause trouble, just facts here. I paid in full Feb 2023 and asked for container. My game didn’t make it in any containers.
6 were sent by sea / LCL in march 2023 as well, could have shipped an extra 1 or 2 with those. They should have just built a container and shipped them to PPS to distribute like they did in Nov 2023.
Interesting that Pinball Heaven is no longer a Distributor but is still owed games and Cointaker also no longer a Distributor and up till 2 weeks ago was also owed games.
They should have a penalty Clause they refund $100 a day for each day past the date promised when you paid in full.
I will start
7 x owing to the UK paid in Full May 2023
1 x amused_to_death
1 x John_I
DM me and i will add you to the list, I'm here all week
I am so tempted to buy some pre orders and lodge a default with the Courts and put Damien out of his misery.
Quoted from John_I:Not sure what to believe on the production numbers. I do suspect that your numbers are much closer than Wayne's. He's obviously trying to stir the pot and has a history which makes him hard to trust to begin with. The real question is not how many have been produced though it's how many more are going to be produced?
Its not really about how many they build or dont build, or how many titles they release and take deposits for.
its about asking for FULL PAYMENT and still not shipping the game 4-13 Months later,
Even if they had a deposit for a long time, it's the ship your game within 6-8 weeks knowing they will never be shipping the game in that Time Frame.
They should be borrowing money from the bank and refunding those people except the deposit and when the game is ready to ship then ask for the balance.
There has been more than a dozen reach out but don't want to post in fear of never getting the game they paid in Full for.
Quoted from gold1:Backtracking from you previous posts? So do you have more than 16 outstanding on your list?
Yes I do
and i am sure i am the only one shipping games this week
image0 (14) (resized).jpegQuoted from gold1:Backtracking from you previous posts? So do you have more than 16 outstanding on your list?
Also do you collect payments in Full 13 months ahead when you build a home and not complete it?
2 weeks later
Quoted from cooked71:Nah, he’s priced that in USD even though game is here. It’s also on Gumtree for aud$10k.
still less than he paid new, last one i saw was NIB sold for $10k in WA
Quoted from oldskool1969:still open and making games
i have ni more info to appease the thumbs downers, sorry
i do not work for them
Just the UK selling taking legal action before it all turns to shit to get his $70k back
Quoted from gold1:Just wondering how your poll of outstanding machines needed to be made is going?????????????
Got the emails and the list, shouldnt you be fixing your customers defects
Quoted from oldskool1969:yep, you keep saying this and appear to be enjoying saying so, we get it.
it will work out in the end
well they still haven't got centaur approved for sale yet so no chance of anyone paying deposits or payments in full till that happens.
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