Wow! If my math is correct… that’s a $8800 profit!

Nice!

$8900. Yeah, pinball is crazy now. After seeing the latest update video, people realize this is a $20k+ game once it ships.

Haggis way underpriced it a year ago. They left A LOT of meat on the table.

Disagree. It took Haggis almost the full "for-sale" window to sell out of the MEs, and that's with a couple dealers like Nitro and FNO buying many multiples for future sale.

Prices on all games have gone up since then, but at the time Haggis offered the MEs, they were priced right.

Yep Haggis had the price point right at the time of sale. Unfortunately they, as almost everyone else, didn't foresee the challenges that were to come for businesses, the lack of availability & the price increases they would have to endure in just one year of announcing the build.

I think it‘s great that Haggis produces the Fathompin, I was (and still am) very interested in this project, but it is disappointing for me to see, that this pin became a speculation project for people (which is not the fault of Haggis).
All in all, Fathom is one of the most beautiful pinball machines ever, but the gameplay is not very complicated: No ramps, no toys, not a second playfield …, it is a normal pinball of the eighties.
Because the price became absolutely crazy I bought an original Fathom to restore it. I‘m sure it won‘t be as cool and beautiful as the Haggis Fathom, but it will be a nice pinball machine when I will be finished with this project.
Too bad, but not to change.

Gotta say it would be tempting to flip my spot and get a "free" classic edition, but after watching the most recent video and looking at the feature matrix I just can't do it. Mermaid edition is too sweet to pass up.

So you actually got paid out already? 8900 profit flipping a spot has to be some sort of record. Especially getting one is still not a guarantee. Crazy

To me it’s all about the NEW CODE and the the new sounds/audio.
You’re getting a game with new strategy and game play which is huge.
This isn’t a CGC game.
Imagine a Monster Bash or MMR with new code, new set of rules and a new wizard mode that you could switch back and forth to the old version with the quality of a CGC game.

That’s what we’re getting by buying a Mermaid!!! Haggis is going to blow everyone away with this game. Just a matter of time…..

100%

We‘ll see.

People are fools and suckers. Hope he/she gets their pin.

Always a matter of time...

Only a man would be stupid enough to do that. Testosterone and bad decisions go hand in hand.

LOL!

I don’t believe someone paid $10k for a preorder spot. Think this may be a marketing ploy.

Grandstanding.

If someone was really willing to pay that much for a spot, you'd think they reach out in the thread.

My thoughts exactly. Who pays the full price of the machine for the chance to buy the machine? Who is such a Fathom fan that they just found out about this? I bought my spot relatively late (in August) from a distributor. These were hardly exclusive.

I look forward to the announcement of the ‘Sea Nymph’* edition that follows the ‘Mermaid’ edition at a new MSRP of $10,999 AUD!

*Note: there is no such thing as the Sea Nymph edition I am being ridiculous… because that’s what this thread is all about! But if JJP can continuously release different versions of their games why can’t Haggis? That would take some steam out of the tire pumpers and speculators.

LaVar Ball school of marketing. Speak the price into existence. Who wouldn’t buy a preorder slot for what is surely a $40,000 game for the pittance of $10k?

Free market economy, it's all about supply and demand. Look at Rick and Morty, as soon as everybody realized what a good game it could be the demand went up and prices went up with them. There were 750 of them so prices didn't get too crazy; though they still were above what I was willing to pay. In this case there's only 250 mermaids and near zero Supply with a sudden big increase in demand. Sky is the limit on what people might be willing to pay.

no... it's back FS now.

Sale fell through. Listing back up. No ploy. Game #175 spot just sold for $5k to a pinsider on the west coast. Game #71 is the last & earliest one I have to sell. If it doesn't sell, I'll take possession of the game and sell the NIB game. Some (quiet) flippers in this thread (who also have more than 1 spot) will be listing their Mermaids for $22k-$25K on pinside. That's a much larger profit than my $8900 preorder. I can't wait to watch the pitchforks come out when that happens.

The wife must have found out and said "you're doing what?" "Yeah I'm buying a chance to buy a pinball machine for $8,900! Great deal isn't it!"

Well I guess I'll step into the fire here even though it's unnecessary for me to do so. I hope some of you guys will appreciate my candor and hold judgment for a moment.

I have purchased two Fathom Mermaid spots from Haggis.

I was already a Clan Haggis member before the announcement came and therefore able to order 24 or 48 hours before the general public could. (I'm hazy on the time lines) I bought my first spot within hours after notice from Damian. I wanted to buy two spots at that time but with only 250 games being made, I didn't want to screw anybody out of an opportunity.

I kept in touch with Damian after that and throughout the general public sales window. I told him my desire to buy a second game if any were still available after the pre-order window closed. Damian told me no problem and I should keep in touch with him. During the final hours on the final sales day, Damian told me he still had games available. I bought a second machine as the window closed.

I reserve the right to change my mind, but it is and has been my intention to take possession of both games before selling one of them.

You may disagree with my methods here but while helping myself during that uncertain time, I believe I was also helping Haggis to get their start.
And oh by the way, times are still uncertain and my gamble has yet to pay off.

The phrases are "Money on the table, and "Meat on the bone". I know you're excited about your free money, but what you said goes beyond what I'd consider a well-mannered celebration.

Prefer a free market with ethics. Cause if you notice ethics seems to be the piece missing as the Earth turns.

Currently, about as unethical as humans can make it

Ok sorry about that.

How much are you gonna flip it for after you get it?

Speculating on the game is a different story to gouging on an email preorder that doesn't exist except on paper.

The entire hobby has become full of gouging flipper filth. LE’s get gobbled up by guys that are buds with the distributors and then marked up 4K. The manufacturers don’t seem to care either.

I really have to wonder if Haggis will reconsider the non-Mermaid editions.

The market has changed so much.. will they really want to try to push a game at that price point and with that much lesser demand? This is so much about 'timing the market' but I gotta imagine there is huge incentive and temptation to punt on the standard edition as next in line and instead try to consider some enhanced version that won't fully impinge on the Mermaid Edition's customer expectations.

This is a tough line to dance.. but if Haggis really does find their feet and get games moving at a reliable pace, it really is in their best interest to reassess their product strategy before locking in SEs vs other options.

Agreed. Pinball has exploded so much in such a short time that a nice (but used) stern POTC just sold for $7500... MORE than a fathom classic (MSRP of $6708 or if you have to pay GST then the MSRP is $7379.)

I'm sure there's lots of other used titles recently sold that also fall in the same category of "costing more than a NIB classic fathom".

Did Haggis do a preorder on the classic editions? If they did then they gotta grind em out. If they didn't I suspect, Haggis will nix the classic game altogether.

Yes I do believe you could pre-order classics & I have seen people state that they ordered them.

I think there are some people around that would just like a faithful reproduction of the original machine. To look, feel & play like the original without the 2.0 code etc.

Absolutely there are.
There are also people who enjoy playing Spacejam as misguided as they are.

As of yesterday I am in for a Classic Edition Pre Order. That second statement above definitely applies to me 100%. I want a Fathom in its classic form and held off on a Mermaid for that reason. Being brand new and shiny is all the bling I want for a classic game. I saw nothing in the new 2.0 code, apron displays or sounds that changed my mind. In fact they only cemented my opinion, even if they do improve greatly over time. I can do without the projector though it is cool! I hate chrome, so it would have been a shame to have to get all of that armor and the coin door on a Mermaid powder coated. I feel like I got a bargain at the current exchange rate and I can't wait to get my better than brand new Fathom!!

Also joined the Clan while I was at it.

I hear what you’re saying on the 2.0(apron displays or sounds) but what about the new code?
The new code creates new rules and strategy. For me, it’s by far the number one reason to purchase a Mermaid.
But i certainly respect your opinion.

It seems that a lot of people are in agreement that Haggis is currently looking at pretty slim margins on these games. If they stick with Classic and Mermaid editions, wouldn’t the easiest source of additional income be to sell the new code to Classic owners? Not sure if there is anything unique to the mermaid build that you couldn’t do so but at that point the development is a sunk cost, might as well scale. Maybe one of the apron screens is needed? Even that seems like it could be part of an upgrade kit if it makes sense financially.

I don't think anyone is challenging their margins or asserting they are 'slim'... except if you are questioning their low volume. But they are also low overhead. I think what the postulate is (at least what I threw out there) is that the OPPORTUNITY is there and changed dramatically since their initial launch plan. Does it make more sense to seize that opportunity and sell something different (with better margin.. yes) to capitalize on that opportunity.

I'm not questioning their margin - I'm just saying there is a lot of opportunity and maybe they would be better served to pivot and grab that opportunity.

This gets you into the classic pinball quagmire of scorned buyers... people who bought something with the assumption of 'exclusivity' - even if not explictly promised. The mindset is if you go back and undercut your previous buyers, you risk future buyer confidence. And yes, you would need the screens+apron plus other mechs (like the auto plunger) for Mermaid.

They can make adjustments as they see fit on the next title - but creating more Mermaid editions would be a poor decision. They stated a number of Mermaid editions that would be produced and they were available for a good 6 months through Nitro.

The smartest play would be to offer a Fathom 2.0 kit for $2k that allows you to add the dual apron monitors and enhanced code to a standard edition (but minus the mirrored trim, projector, cab art, speaker system, etc that are only Mermaid). This would be a reasonable compromise.

How much do you think they'll increase the price on the next classic. Like $2k?

Did the series ticket lock you into a particular price for future titles? It'll be a hell of a deal if it did. Feels like NIB collector games will be starting at $20k in 2030 at the rate things are going...

At $6700 (before shipping) you won't find a better NIB deal... assuming they actually make it after they make 250 mermaids. I personally would have waited a month or so before pre-ordering a classic just to make sure mermaids are in fact shipping. The classics aren't slated for production until AFTER the 250 mermaids finish. You could be in for a long wait.

How can you say they are low overhead? They moved into a 400% larger facility to make fathoms.

If they did come up with another model like a "premium", it would have to cost more than the current "LE" Mermaid for them to make decent money.

That's not going to go over well with buyers.

Ahhh great question!

Maybe that's where Haggis will make all their money... on future games.

If they do 250 Centaur 2.0's next and do it as nicely as they've done mermaid... they could charge $20k-$25k. There are more than 250 buyers around the world who could and would spend $25k on a haggis centaur. Look at elvira 40th! Same deal accept haggis is real pinball quality not just powder coating, different decals and an irrelevant celebs signature.

It maybe a low NIB price.. I don't think build quality alone usurps the point it's still a 80s bally. 7k seems cheap compared to getting a pimped out OG Fathom, but does everyone want a pimp-level restore and pay for it? No. $7k is still a lot of money for a bally game experience.

I think this is still all about the fans of the game and accessibility - not about value.

Of course, at our current rate, 12m from now people will think anything under 10k is value even if 40yrs old

Their facility is still relatively small. How many people do you think they eating up payroll? Do you think they have a group of contractors building games? I don't.. They have expenses, but they are still running lean.

Or what if they only have a few orders of Standards.. and instead pump up what a standard is, increase the price, and grandfather in the original pre-sales?

Agreed, but I've been holding out for many months for any signs of Mermaid production and I couldn't hold back any longer! I know the wait will be long and just hope I get it by Christmas at this point and maybe a year at max. I figured there might be a lot of people on the fence like me, so I didn't want too many people getting on the bandwagon ahead of me and making the wait even longer! I only had to put down 15%, which equated to $1006US. That is an amount that I am willing to risk losing on what I see as a pretty sure bet at this point. Would suck to lose, but wouldn't change my lifestyle if I did lose it.

I realize that my preference for the Classic regardless of price puts me in the minority here. To me the game software is just right the way it is including the old 8-bit sounds. The game is already challenging to complete the existing goals and the rules fit the game perfectly. As long as I can set free play, that's the only update I want. After watching the demo video at least five times with the (early) 2.0 rules, sound and displays I felt like I was watching a modern-day remake of a classic movie or TV show and it just doesn't click with me.

We really didn't see any "signs of mermaid production". We just saw a game going in a box. Was it just their demo game that was in the previous update video? Who knows? Inquiring minds want to know.

The insert lights and projector on the other game weren't working... and the other 6 games were empty cabinets.

If you're in your 50's and grew up playing this at a bowling alley while waiting for dads bowling league to finish up... or something similar. Then, $7k is nothing.

You don’t think they could find a Centaur to sign the apron?