Menifee, CA
fathom buyers confront marty over the lack of updates.
(Topic ID: 292168)
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Fathom (Classic Edition)
Haggis, 2021-
Fathom (Mermaid Edition)
Haggis, 2021
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Woolgoolga
I just read most of the posts from the last 3 pages...
Have any games been shipped in the last month?
Has Haggis sent anyone updates on game completion and/or game shipment plan in the last month?
There's so much bitchin and complaining on this thread it's hard to get any real information about the thread title for lord's sake.
Quoted from Dono:I just read most of the posts from the last 3 pages...
Have any games been shipped in the last month?
Has Haggis sent anyone updates on game completion and/or game shipment plan in the last month?
There's so much bitchin and complaining on this thread it's hard to get any real information about the thread title for lord's sake.
And that is the problem, no information. Despite attempts to contact Haggis. I'm holding off sending the balance of payment until Damian either calls me as requested or a substantial update is posted that proves machines are actually in production. For the record, I received my final payment request well over a month ago.
One the downvoters on my post where I said I want to make a $3k profit on my fathom says this about HIS (her?) 2nd fathom mermaid that he (she?) bought during the initail offering solely to flip...
They said they'll be listing their 2nd nib mermaid for $22,500 - $25,000.
I'm the bad guy for looking for a small profit and he's (or she's?) down-voting me when they're out to double+ their money?! LOL... pinsider hypocrisy at its best.
In my final payment invoice it said 8 weeks from date of full payment they expect to be putting it in a box. That was 4 weeks ago.
Quoted from d0n:One my downvoters on my post saying I want to make a $3k profit on my fathom says this about HIS 2nd fathom that he bought solely to flip...
[Removed]
I'm the bad guy for looking for a small profit and he's down voting me?! LOL... Hypocrisy at its best.
I kind of have to hand it to the Marketing Department part of your brain. These are some interesting tactics to set price expectations, demand perception, and time urgency for the other pre order slots you want to sell.
Quoted from jjga:I kind of have to hand it to the Marketing Department part of your brain. These are some interesting tactics to set price expectations, demand perception, and time urgency for the other pre order slots you want to sell.
It's common sense. Damian has said games start to ship in may. If they don't ship in may our preorders won't be worth a damn. Now, 10 days before the scheduled ship date... preorders are easily worth double or triple original buy in. If you don't have a preorder and the 250 games do ship, you're then going to pay $20k for a nib fathom mermaid.
It's a gamble. We all know it.
GO HAGGIS! BOX SOME FATHOMS!
Quoted from d0n:One the downvoters on my post where I said I want to make a $3k profit on my fathom says this about HIS 2nd fathom mermaid that he bought solely to flip during the initial offering...
[Removed]
I'm the bad guy for looking for a small profit and he's (or she's?) down-voting me?! LOL... Hypocrisy at its best.
D1B087FE-D773-436B-B96C-AA9324E63297 (resized).png
Quoted from dscapo:[quoted image]
you cared enough to post that you didn't care. Hmmm.
Quoted from Pinballer73:And that is the problem, no information. Despite attempts to contact Haggis. I'm holding off sending the balance of payment until Damian either calls me as requested or a substantial update is posted that proves machines are actually in production. For the record, I received my final payment request well over a month ago.
Smart man. If you sent the extra $8k a month ago, you'd now be sitting here with almost $10k invested and still not know anything more than if you only had your original $1100 invested. I'm sure that feels good.
Quoted from Dono:Have any games been shipped in the last month?
Has Haggis sent anyone updates on game completion and/or game shipment plan in the last month?
no & no
If Fathom doesn’t ship in May, Damian owes everybody pics. lol #demandpicsfrom [email protected].
Entitled people are owed stuff everyone.
What Is a Sense of Entitlement?
You owe me. The entitlement mentality is defined as a sense of deservingness or being owed a favor when little or nothing has been done to deserve special treatment. It’s the “you owe me” attitude.
Entitlement is a narcissistic personality trait. It’s not known exactly how this mentality develops. It may be due to social factors like:
The environment you grew up in
The way your parents treated you
Whether adults solved your problems for you
How you are treated by authority figures
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:If Fathom doesn’t ship in May, Damian owes everybody pics. lol #demandpicsfrom [email protected].
He made 77 update vids on youtube in 2019 (go count em) while producing 52 celts. He can't make ONE video about fathom production to keep 250 paying customers happy?!
Quoted from d0n:He made 77 update vids on youtube in 2019 (go count em) while producing 52 celts. He can't make ONE video about fathom production to keep 250 paying customers happy?!
I wonder what he and Punkin are afraid of showing in the pics? I am pretty certain there is tremendous progress and that it would only be a good thing to crow about what you’ve accomplished so far. But this way is better. It is not easy to piss of a large percentage of your customers base before they pay an $8k balance on your product, but Haggis has found a way.
This might make a good case study in future business classes regarding what not to do. aka Don’t keep your paying customers in the dark. Fortunately, there is immediate relief. By revisiting this decision and changing course to start sharing info on a regular basis would go a long ways towards a first step.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I wonder what he and Punkin are afraid of showing in the pics? I am pretty certain there is tremendous progress and that it would only be a good thing to crow about what you’ve accomplished so far. But this way is better. It is not easy to piss of a large percentage of your customers base before they pay balance on your product, but this might be a case study in what not to do aka Don’t keep your paying customers in the dark.
Nevermind us regular schlebs who just wanted a fathom mermaid... can you imagine what the season ticket holders are thinking as this plays out?! 
They're in for the next 4 unknown games to be produced.
Taking 8 week dxpectations from invoices and turning ghat into claiming a ship date is a stretch.
Obviously it’s a deadline- but not the same thing as making an explicit statement from the boss
Quoted from Boof-Ed:In my final payment invoice it said 8 weeks from date of full payment they expect to be putting it in a box. That was 4 weeks ago.
flynnebus says you shouldn't equate that to a ship date.
Quoted from d0n:flynnebus says you shouldn't equate that to a ship date.
More so for you… when you and jeff treat it as some commit - where others simply treat it as an expectation
Quoted from flynnibus:More so for you… when you and jeff treat it as some commit - where others simply treat it as an expectation
I've not been promised a ship date. I'm only going by what others who have paid in full have said.
Thankfully, none of my spots are early enough to have prompted haggis to ask me for full payment.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I wonder what he and Punkin are afraid of showing in the pics? I am pretty certain there is tremendous progress and that it would only be a good thing to crow about what you’ve accomplished so far. But this way is better. It is not easy to piss of a large percentage of your customers base before they pay an $8k balance on your product, but Haggis has found a way.
This might make a good case study in future business classes regarding what not to do. aka Don’t keep your paying customers in the dark. Fortunately, there is immediate relief. By revisiting this decision and changing course to start sharing info on a regular basis would go a long ways towards a first step.
The fuck you think i have to do with Haggis and pictures and what you think i am afraid of with Damián showing pictures. In your paranoid universe am i really a part of a haggis conspiracy to see you shorn of your $0 investment?
Glad i'm not part of your family, I can imagine when you leave for work they say 'Whew, lets sit down and have a cup of tea'.
Quoted from d0n:flynnebus says you shouldn't equate that to a ship date.
I didn’t. It’s the expectation of it being boxed. This is a picture of the email that says exactly what I said. I said nothing of a ship date.
13F70C21-A58B-4FE0-8EC1-9BF1B9344D7E (resized).jpeg
d0nQuoted from Jace:D0N if no one buys your spots, are you going to buy all those fathoms and have them shipped to you? Or do you think people will snap them up? Just curious.</blockquot
D0N if no one buys your spots, are you going to buy all those fathoms and have them shipped to you? Or do you think people will snap them up? Just curious.
It's none of your business actually. Just saying.
Quoted from d0n:It's common sense.
You trying to set a price for an asset you hold while creating urgency and demand for it at that price is common sense.
Quoted from d0n:If they don't ship in may our preorders won't be worth a damn. Now, 10 days before the scheduled ship date... preorders are easily worth double or triple original buy in.
Describing how an asset gets riskier by the day and therefore it is worth more as time passes is not correct.
Quoted from d0n:Smart man. If you sent the extra $8k a month ago, you'd now be sitting here with almost $10k invested and still not know anything more than if you only had your original $1100 invested. I'm sure that feels good.
It's frustrating if anything. Knowing if they are on track to produce the game sometime in the next few months would be helpful. The lack of evidence that games are actually being built and some of the viscous rumors circling here in Australia about the lack of staff at Haggis (not COVID related) is worrying. I'm prepared to pay in full as soon as I'm convinced this is actually happening.
Quoted from jjga:Describing how an asset gets riskier by the day and therefore it is worth more as time passes is not correct.
If haggis misses yet another self imposed deadline, all 250 preorders take a massive hit in value. If there are no updates and no games shipped by the end of may... I hate to say it but we're all f'ed.
Quoted from d0n:If haggis misses yet another self imposed deadline, all 250 preorders take a massive hit in value. If there are no updates and no games shipped by the end of may... I hate to say it but we're all f'ed.
We? Haha… this is rich.
Quoted from d0n:"We" as in the people with pre order deposits and those with series tickets.
Forgive me for assuming but I think the vast majority with preorders did so because they actually want the machines. Few are looking to profit off of preorders. The “massive hit in value” doesn’t apply to the majority.
Quoted from punkin:The fuck you think i have to do with Haggis and pictures and what you think i am afraid of with Damián showing pictures. In your paranoid universe am i really a part of a haggis conspiracy to see you shorn of your $0 investment?
Glad i'm not part of your family, I can imagine when you leave for work they say 'Whew, lets sit down and have a cup of tea'.
I mean, you can claim that people are entitled and all that other crap, but you're no better in your extremely defensive position of Haggis and dismissal of anyone that's the least bit concerned. And given the HISTORY of pinball companies taking money and not delivering, there is VERY GOOD reason to be concerned at the level expressed here. And it is CONCERN... NOT PANIC! We (the pinball community) all appear to be funding Haggis and now providing FULL PAYMENT before we even see a picture of more than one (incomplete) game! To not be concerned, to some extent, is just being naive.
Give me a break dude. There's a balance here and trust is a two-way street! If you are so damn sure of Haggis' eminent sucess, then put your money where your mouth is! Let someone sell you their mermaid slot, but you send them $20,000.. and if the game arrives, they'll give you the game and $10K. Shouldn't be an issue since you are so sure of Haggis and dismiss any consideration about finances of the game! But if they don't ship, Haggis keeps your $10K (which shouldn't be a problem for you) and they get to keep the extra $10K because you don't want to be a narcissist who has to ask for his money back!
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:there is VERY GOOD reason to be concerned at the level expressed here.
better take a closer look at those series tickets.
worried series tickets.jpgQuoted from Pinballer73:And that is the problem, no information. Despite attempts to contact Haggis. I'm holding off sending the balance of payment until Damian either calls me as requested or a substantial update is posted that proves machines are actually in production. For the record, I received my final payment request well over a month ago.
Woohoo... some real info. Seriously though, thanks for the update, much appreciated.
Quoted from Jace:d0n if no one buys your spots, are you going to buy all those fathoms and have them shipped to you? Or do you think people will snap them up? Just curious.
Yea, I know he has like (4) preorders, but I still can't figure out if he wants this to succeed or not...
Quoted from Roostking:Yea, I know he has like (4) preorders, but I still can't figure out if he wants this to succeed or not...
why would anyone with a preorder want haggis to fail? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard on pinside.
Quoted from d0n:why would anyone with a preorder want haggis to fail? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard on pinside.
Ahh, so you can call people stupid, but not insane. Right, still getting a handle over the way this stuff is modded and trying to learn.
StickToWordsLikeStupidPunkin
Quoted from punkin:Entitled people are owed stuff...
You are confusing *entitled people* with *self-entitled people* and/or * people with a false sense of entitlement*; a dangerous word game, IMHO.
Not the forum for this, I know.
I'm sure not many people care to know the difference these days anyway.
Quoted from pinballlife:You are confusing *entitled people* with *self-entitled people* and/or * people with a false sense of entitlement*; a dangerous word game, IMHO.
Not the forum for this, I know.
I'm sure not many people care to know the difference these days anyway.
No i am not. There is no difference.
Quoted from punkin:No i am not. There is no difference.
Do you have a driver's license?
...real question.
Quoted from pinballlife:Do you have a driver's license?
...real question.
I understand what being entitled to something is as a legal definition and prefer not to be treated like a child. I don't believe that someone who is not a customer of a company has a legal entitlement to a service that company does not have a legal requirement to supply to anyone, let alone some random dude off the internet.
That, Sir, is a sense of entitlement.
Your example is a perfect example of self entitlement, not entitlement. My point is, recently people have been using the word *entitlement* and *self entitlement* interchangeably; it's a dark path, IMHO.
Quoted from punkin:I left school at 14, i don't care about your grammar righteousness.
"I am owed an update" is entitlement, self entitlement or whatever other term you wish to use. I know a squirrel when i see a squirrel.
OK.
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