LOL - months of griping about not showing a gameplay or update video.

….then they show a gameplay/update video.

Now we get to endure months of griping about lack of production line pics and how 8 weeks is too soon to ask for the balance.

I was happy to see the game in its final form. Congrats to Haggis!

Relax guys - not all pinball startups fail.

Excited for my Fathom!

It’s what the mini mob does. They aren’t happy unless they are crapping on somebody or something.

They obviously have some insecurity and self esteem issues or something

It's like Deja-vu, all over again with you. Honestly, if Ice is on a pin, be afraid

Agree, that was an awesome update John, it was a long wait, but worth it. The only thing I missed in it, was the fact that we didn't get to here some of those classic squawk and talk sounds and call outs from the old Fathom. I wish for just a minute at the end we got to hear Dive again!!, Air tanks full!! Was hoping to hear that old nostalgic sound again, bring me back to when I was 11 in 1981, playing it as a paperboy on my last stop. I saved all my extra quarters from the route. The Matador bar and restaurant was purposefully my last stop because they had a brand new shiny Fathome there. Now to know that over 4 decades later, I'm going to get to open a brand new Fathom of my own, I'm beyond excited!! I got Mermaid #70 (for the year I was born).

It really sucks for them on how much extra it's going to cost them to ship these with all the unforseen things going on in the world since they made the original free shipping offer. I'm sure it must be somewhere around 3 to 5 times more cost for them. That doesn't help a start up company already short on initial capital money ): They've proven very tenacious and determined and have worked so hard. They definitely seem to be very honest and stand up people over there. I pray they can see this through and get a viable strong company in the long run. Competition is a good thing for us consumers. I for one understand and am ok with them asking for it earlier rather than later. I knew the risks from day one and decided right away that for me it was worth it, all my chips are in. Yes, let's go Haggis, you can do this!!

Yes because it was your third post already on this day alone complaining about other people’s opinions and nothing else… after saying don’t care what they say.

For someone who doesn’t care you surd love trying to be the arbitrator of what people can say and spend most of your posting here bitching about people rather than talking about fathom.

So stop with the constant complaining about people and stag on topic

PutUpOrShutUppunkin

Another atypical Troll tactic from you mate blame/shame reversal and make out like the others are the trolls, and not to forget the character assassination attempts and ridiculous/childish reverse psychology BS!!

There is no way as long as my arse points to the ground your game will be shipping in 8 weeks, happy to make bets with people.

Can you substantiate that in any way?

No condemnation here, he is putting out some great stuff.
My recent favorite one is where he complains about the people complaining about him.

So.. Does your arse point to the ground, and you wager game does not ship in 8 weeks ? Or does your arse not point to the ground, and you wager that it does ship in 8 weeks ? Or does your arse only sometimes point to the ground, so that way you are covered if it does or does not ship in 8 weeks ?

Alas, as I have become an old man - my arse has disappeared. Thank goodness for belts!

Yes, people waiting still waiting after 9 years to get their games that they paid for, people who bought recently getting their games before EA's, what a resounding success!

Everyone else does not care ? What they they might lose their entire investment. Were you of the same opinion on Deeproot ?
Kaneda was the only one "bitching and moaning" about them when others in the pinball community covered up for them and remained silent . It is one big suck fest in pinball podcasting and no one asks the hard questions for fear of alienating manufacturers. We need someone holding them to their word.
Haggis has not kept any promise at all so far on their manufacturing estimates. Asking to see the production line instead of the same prototype game before sending money is smart. either way is a big risk. There is a reason Kaneda keeps growing subscribers and will win another twipy .

Relax man. People (actually some of the same people in this very thread) were saying the same things back when Predator was announced, and then again when Magic Girl was announced, and then yet again when RAZA was announced. "You're just being negative and thats whats wrong with the world today", "you're rooting for failure", "You just want people to suffer", "you're just a hater", blah blah blah. I'm hopeful that this time is at least a little different, but I've seen this story play out many times. Sit back and enjoy the show

Yes your right, but It's not a deeproot scenario and he didn't have to make it right with the early achievers.A resounding success, no far from it, but Kenada was totally on board with him giving his company away and if that happened would the early achievers get anything ? My only real point was don't let Kenada make your decisions for you unless you live for drama, and I told you so failures.He loves that.I listen to some of his shows and he has a lot of interesting takes on pinball and is entertaining.I also voted for him every year with the Twippys. He's on a Haggis hunt right now and if you listen to him you better get out now and fast.So if you have a spot available let me know.

In the same breath, Kaneda says Haggis buyers need to panic, but he then says he believes games will ship.

Now that's entertainment.

being realistic is not being negative, It is being smart

Correct, nobody but Kaneda's 450 disciples care what he has to say

many more show up to all the facebook live streams. It's a blast. Don't be a hater be GREATER ! lol

Like Shit, other than Silverball Chronicles to go listen to an hour of non related pinball bull crap on a 1.5hour/2hour pinball podcast, I cant stand it man, its like someone trying to sell me Tupper Ware so F"n BOOOOORING !!!.... If you like it that way, well enjoy ya self mate & go for it.

The Kman for me gets strait too the point and Thank God rather than all the other bla bla bla wank wank wank on BS!
Like it or not Firm but Fair Pal.

We interrupt this program to remind people this is the Haggis Pinball thread.

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So months and months of silence, then we get one video, then the first in line get an invoice for $8K? Seems like there should be a 50/50 there or SOMETHING... 50% now, then 50% when it's sitting ready to ship if you ask me... after all, the profit margin is built in, right? It seems like any update was held just so one could be done right before asking for money.

And I'll be clear.. I'm for Haggis and their success. This is a honest observation and worth talking about..

I bet all Mermaid machines and quite a few STD models will be delivered in less than two years from today.

Haggis has manufactured and delivered pinball machines in a fairly short period of time.

You had my MMR deposit money for over 8 years before you finally sold the project to PPS!
Did you even have a playable/working prototype after 8-9 years?

I think the underlying point y'all are arguing about could be cleared up pretty easily.

- Kaneda is cynical when it comes to boutique pinball (I think we can all agree on that, and as a content creator, makes sense to be a critic, whatever)
- Haggis has missed the boat big time on expectations, both setting and achieving (We all know this, it's being pointed out)
- Kaneda says to be concerned and demand better from the company you purchased a really expensive toy from (This is where there's a disconnect that doesn't make sense to me. How is that not fair?)
- Kaneda says he's the only podcaster trying to hold companies accountable for the sake of their buyers (No one has to agree with his position on himself or his motives, they could be just to create content, doesn't really matter though)

To that last point, are other podcasters talking about the delays and issues with Haggis? I don't listen to many podcasts cause I'm only in the car 20 minutes each way to work and that's the only time I have for them. If it's true, then why is that a bad thing?
Shouldn't the community be more warry given our history? Shouldn't we expect some warm and fuzzy? Is it a challenge to show parts, a production line, anything to build confidence in games ready to be built.

Forgive me for pointing this out, but is it not at least a little concerning to miss deadlines by nearly a year and then ask for full payment with nothing but a sexy prototype machine shown?
I cant think of any other expensive item you can buy that's like pinball, where it's so difficult to make and the risk of getting burned legitimately exists. I didnt think that was possible when I went in on Deeproot, so I'm not trying to condemn or hate on anyone for cheerleading their awesome new game, but rather saying just because you may despise Kaneda doesn't mean he's wrong on this.

"Don't miss wisdom because it was delivered from someone you detest." We can all be discerning of the source and still think critically right?

Who gaf about what podcasters do and do not cover? For everyone of those claims about ‘no one is talking about…’ you would have found an extensive conversation about it already on pinside. For the love of god please stop taking your perspective of the world from a narcissist. He’s not the hero you need… but he’ll keep trying to make you think that.

Please… back to fathom.

ok back to Fathom..... where is the manufacturing line ?

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It basically was a deeproot scenario and the fact that manufacturing got restarted and is going on at all is a miracle by itself but we don't even know for sure if they are robbing peter to pay paul or what else might come up. Dutch deserves almost zero kudos and that would be toward the bottom of the list of companies I'd ever want to compare something to.

You've already seen the building and setup. What we haven't seen is it populated with fathom.

But unless they switch to large scale production, it's never going to look like other 'factories' you may think of.

They get kudos for persistence and keeping on with baggage that otherwise was seen as an insurmountable trash pile. No one but Barry knows the financial gymnastics (or unrecoverable 'investment') he's done to clear himself of ARA and fund his operation. But the guy clearly believes... which is astounding.

I just hate the sins that we get from their amateur experience with mechanical pinball. Good news with fathom is, the game isn't nearly as complex, so hoping for less risk for those same kinds of mistakes. But ribbon cable everywhere for the lamps in celts makes me cringe every time I see it.

Will every EA get satisfied? That's still a long bet - they need a another game to sell and then I think EAs could eventually be satisfied.

Role models? Of course not. Credit due? Most certainly.

FAR Part 12 has always been and always will be a problem because of the other 52 parts. Vote out rulers and vote in representatives.

Fathom is going to be fantastic. Just going to take a bit to get here, which is cool by me. Ive got pennies to save.

deleted to keep post on topic

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Trust, but verify. I am absolutely not dropping 8k until I see a picture of someone in this group or somewhere with their fathom. I think we are later in production order, surely there will be one person who has received by the time we get invoiced.

No problem really showing some Celts production photos. Big problem showing anything Fathom production for photos. Very interesting how Rick from PPS has gone silent. Deeproot was very coy about showing next to nothing over the years besides the 2 Raza games, & Robert had access to mega millions. Pinball production is brutal for upfront costs, until you can ramp up production & sales.

Nothing to see there. Rick's MO is post when it suits Rick's favor - not to share for mutual benefit. Rick not saying anything is par for the course.

Good way to put it. I agree.

That's for just about all manufacturing, not just pinball

OMFG.

It really is impressive the shit he can stir up.

He got banned from Pinside for trolling. So now he brainwashes 450 pinsiders to troll for him.

And you guys are PAYING him to do it. Unbelievable.

No one is trolling here for Kaneda. He made a lot of good points about fathom and how it’s been handled. We’ve seen history repeat itself with the small boutique Pinball companies. I hope everything goes well with this one but there should be questions asked and answered when asking for full payment.

So in your mind if someone agrees with Kaneda then they are trolls, ‘if they don’t think like me’ -they are trolls? The people trolling are the ones that took this thread in this direction where it was a discussion about Chris.

Well, ironically enough, I just got my invoice. I was previously told by Damian that I was approximately build #75. So does that mean that Haggis expects to build at least 75 Fathoms in the next 8 weeks? Hmm.

No it means that there are some aussies before you and they want to build US pins first so they can get them on the water. They need a container full, so 33 pins i reckon.

Same thing happened with GnR from Jersey jack, but of course there where a bunch of people from the United States whining that it wasn't fair that our pins were done first even though they were 8 weeks on the water and the actual deliveries happened in the United States of North America first.

Won't be any aussies whining about it though i'd say.

DakotaMike whatcha gonna do?

It's in order of deposit, not #. But yeah, at this stage, I don't know how comforting it would be to send the $8K out. Complete silence for what, 3 months, then right before asking for a bunch of money we see ONE video of ONE machine.

I was under the belief that on this machine buyers would be paying AT THE TIME THE MACHINE WAS BUILT AND READY TO SHIP, no? The DEPOSIT secured the game up to that point. Am I wrong? I honestly don't know. And not trying to stir anything.

I'm assuming once it ships still looking 8 to 12 months longer.

Simple, send no money.
This is what we Yankees call capitalism.
You see children, this is how “capitalism “ works.
I, the “consumer give the shop keeper money.
The shop keeper gives me stuff.
“Stuff” is a good, like food, furniture, or a pinball machine.
Or services, like insurance, dry cleaning, pest control, cable tv.

Shhhhh
Ya had me Y O U

Very happy to buy the spot off one person who decides they don't want to pay the full cost. Don't enable the swindling criminals who are trying to steal your money (in exchange for a beautiful pinball machine), get out now if you like.

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