(Topic ID: 292168)

Haggis Pinball - 2nd game = Fathom + Fathom 2.0 confirmed

By FalconPunch

2 years ago


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#3051 2 years ago

Is anyone verifying the wire instructions before sending funds? I am looking to send but also wanting to be somewhat safe.

#3052 2 years ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more a 2-months-prior invoice bothers me. That's a long time for Haggis to have my money, and that doesn't even take into account how long it will take a game to get to the USA after shipping out.
Should be a month prior at most to ask for the rest of the invoice. This sounds like Haggis has money problems. Otherwise there would be no reason to take full payment so soon. Hmm, hopefully they narrow the payment window by the time they get to my game.

Paid for Alien in September and still waiting.

#3053 2 years ago
Quoted from wesh:

Is anyone verifying the wire instructions before sending funds? I am looking to send but also wanting to be somewhat safe.

Can message me the account they said to send to, I could verify that it is at least the same I have sent for Celts and other things..

#3054 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer31520:

Kaneda new patreon questioning invoices going out this early without any proof of real production.

Why does Special k think he needs proof?

#3055 2 years ago

Damien should provide a pic to anyone he’s sent an invoice for balance to demonstrate parts are on hand and everything is in place to start. And like others have noted, four weeks prior is plenty of time. I feel strongly that he should be waiting until game comes off the line and is in a box, before providing pics and requesting money. I can’t trust what comes out of his mouth, show me. But I don’t have money on the line. Once some show up in the marketplace, I’ll buy one.

#3056 2 years ago
Quoted from wesh:

Is anyone verifying the wire instructions before sending funds? I am looking to send but also wanting to be somewhat safe.

I am going to speak with their Finance Manager later tonight before I wire to confirm.

On a side note, I have a friend who is a series ticket holder and they were sent invoices a month ago. Based off of the timelines we have been give we should start seeing Fathoms in boxes for series holders in a month.

16
#3057 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer31520:

Kaneda new patreon questioning invoices going out this early without any proof of real production.

Just stop with him already.

#3058 2 years ago

Considering North American games are going to cointainer shipped - games are going to be sitting a long time before they actually leave the dock. Plenty of time to invoice customers before releasing games.

Certainly a bad look to be invoicing now when they stayed away from any real production news in their last update besides 'we are negotiating our way through that'. But he does say they are 'very close' to boxing and shipping out games. If that line really is accurate, I wouldn't see any issue with the invoicing of THOSE games... but then he also makes the statement about after season ticket holders he'll have a much better idea of their estimates for their throughput. How many season ticket holders are there?

What I read from those statements is they probably have a handful of games they are close to finishing but the games were built as they were figuring things out.. vs built using the intended mass production processes. So he has games, but not the reference point of what it means to build the games continuously in their intended workflow. As they mainstream more, then he'll have his throughput references. Basically sample builds (in any other company lingo).

Would have been nice to reaffirm their shift back to volume building.. that sneaky BallyPinball snipe didn't go unnoticed.. but getting something out the door will be a huge milestone. Keep pushing!

Glad they changed course and showed people the game play.

#3059 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Damien should provide a pic to anyone he’s sent an invoice for balance to demonstrate parts are on hand and everything is in place to start. And like others have noted, four weeks prior is plenty of time. I feel strongly that should be waiting until game comes off the line and is in a box, before providing pics and requesting money. I can’t trust what comes out of his mouth, show me. But I don’t have money on the line. Once some roll off the line and then some will show up in the marketplace, I’ll buy one.

LOL, He is under no such obligation to do so.. Besides what could it possibly even prove... You have a video of a working unit, you were all about needing that to prove it is not vapor. Now Damian has gotten past a couple cabinet, drop target, supply issues, and able to take money to produce next batch, and he is now using previous experience to estimate a little longer hopefully more accurate lead time..

For one I like that he is estimating 8 weeks, instead of 4.. How many can they make in a week, how many need to fill a container to ship to the US, folks can expedite this by opting for air. Is it better to say 4 then ship in 8, or say 8 and surprise your game is boxed sooner ??

In any case people can pay it or not.. Someone a little later in the queue can jump up a few spots.. Maybe that someone is you even, have a late number game ? want it earlier? Get someone a little uneasy, to hold off some ?

#3060 2 years ago
Quoted from Zukram:

LOL, He is under no such obligation to do so.. Besides what could it possibly even prove... You have a video of a working unit, you were all about needing that to prove it is not vapor. Now Damian has gotten past a couple cabinet, drop target, supply issues, and able to take money to produce next batch, and he is now using previous experience to estimate a little longer hopefully more accurate lead time..
For one I like that he is estimating 8 weeks, instead of 4.. How many can they make in a week, how many need to fill a container to ship to the US, folks can expedite this by opting for air. Is it better to say 4 then ship in 8, or say 8 and surprise your game is boxed sooner ??
In any case people can pay it or not.. Someone a little later in the queue can jump up a few spots.. Maybe that someone is you even, have a late number game ? want it earlier? Get someone a little uneasy, to hold off some ?

No he sold his.

16
#3062 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer31520:

Kaneda new patreon questioning invoices going out this early without any proof of real production.

his podcasts have become irrelevant behind the paywall
he can bitch and moan all he wants to 450 listeners and they can soak it up - everybody else just doesn't care
Kudos to him, but there is so much better free content out there

14
#3063 2 years ago

I happen to be a series ticket holder.
I paid in full a few weeks ago by wire and was asked to send in full payment by wire probably 7 weeks ago.
I verified the wiring instructions just because wire fraud exists and I send thousands of wires out In my line of business and one should always be vigilant at all times when wiring out money to another party.
Hoping to receive notification that my game is ready to ship in the next couple weeks but I have no idea.
Any pinball company that is a start up will almost ALWAYS be short on working capital.
Fingers crossed.
And I will be having it shipped by air most definitely when the time comes. (Although not happy about the additional costs).
My gut tells me that Damian and his small company of employees are stand up guys but ultimately there are no guarantees.
What an amazing adventure he’s been on, I only hope it ends with some success because the amount of hours he has most likely put in to make this work has most likely been extraordinary.
Let go Haggis!!!! You can do it!!

#3064 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

I happen to be a series ticket holder.
I paid in full a few weeks ago by wire and was asked to send in full payment by wire probably 7 weeks ago.
I verified the wiring instructions just because wire fraud exists and I send thousands of wires out In my line of business and one should always be vigilant at all times when wiring out money to another party.
Hoping to receive notification that my game is ready to ship in the next couple weeks but I have no idea.
Any pinball company that is a start up will almost ALWAYS be short on working capital.
Fingers crossed.
And I will be having it shipped by air most definitely when the time comes. (Although not happy about the additional costs).
My gut tells me that Damian and his small company of employees are stand up guys but ultimately there are no guarantees.
What an amazing adventure he’s been on, I only hope it ends with some success because the amount of hours he has most likely put in to make this work has most likely been extraordinary.
Let go Haggis!!!! You can do it!!

Might I ask what the air shipping would cost ?
Thanks.

#3065 2 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Might I ask what the air shipping would cost ?
Thanks.

Frankmac,
Yeah good question. I have not done any research on it myself but I heard $1400 somewhere.
When I find out an exact number, I’ll post.
Thanks,
Kev

#3066 2 years ago

What ever way you ship, verify there is full coverage insurance

#3067 2 years ago

Haggis team could show their bank statements, stocktake figures and payroll and these people would still be crying foul.

Because crying's just a thing that they do.

#3068 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Why does Special k think he needs proof?

Because he is Special ....

#3069 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

his podcasts have become irrelevant behind the paywall
he can bitch and moan all he wants to 450 listeners and they can soak it up - everybody else just doesn't care
Kudos to him, but there is so much better free content out there

Who is Kenada ?? He wants drama and to be the one who told you so.If I remember he said Big Lebowski would be a failure and guess what !! Ya it went bad but they are making it right amd people are loving the games. All I'm saying is he is guessing and has no clue what haggis is or isn't doing and If you want to let the conspiracy theorist make your decisions for you then sell me your spot.

#3070 2 years ago
Quoted from mjalexan:

Received an invoice this morning, same 8 week gap between payment and shipping. I was told I’m the first non-series ticket holder so it sounds like things are rolling along.

...and what if it doesn't ship in 2 months? I was excited about the video update until I heard kanendas recent podcast. He's right. This is their demo game that they've been working on. They haven't shown anything in the way of actual production. I'd be wary of paying in full until I saw some games going into boxes. Damian has been awesome communicating with me but money is money. Once you wire those funds, they're never coming back no matter what happens.

Go Haggis! Make some Fathoms and show us.

#3071 2 years ago

See?

#3072 2 years ago

I was very close to becoming a series ticket holder (after I saw the update video) so I could get a fathom early and then reality set in. I need to see games on the line and going in boxes before I send any more money.
That's just me. To each their own. I'm not complaining or putting haggis down. I'm just being cautious.

#3073 2 years ago

It's called being convincing -- some just don't need convincing because they are blinded by the desire.

Simply showing a Fathom game isn't really showing anything new except confirming they have a playing game. They showed you a completed game when they announced too - forget that already?

Remember all the times people said the 2.0 code was already done, etc? So what was actually new there or convincing that production is actually closer?

They continue to dodge the elephant in the room - it's clearly intentional.

Normally when you have something exciting, optimists love to share it.. If they had their first real games ready to go, don't you think he'd love to share that? Instead it's left vague and hopeful.. showing you a game he doesn't even mention it's origin? Or saying "this is a production sample of all our final bits" etc.. again wouldn't the proud dad love to show off all his hard work?

The lack of detail is telling. I do think they are close though.. I am just skeptical if they can actually scale up.

#3074 2 years ago

I don't know why you are trying to convince me or anyone else of your crap.

I am not blinded by anything, but you can fantasize about my motives as much as you fantasize about your intimate knowledge of others business, i don't care.

The truth of the matter is as i have already stated.

I bet $1200 that i would get a new Fathom pinball machine a year ago or so.
I bet it because it seemed a very reasonable wager and nothing has changed in that time to convince me it's not exactly the same wager. And to prove that point I'm willing to lay that small wager down again.

Problem is that the widespread panic you are trying to portray just isn't there, other wise i would have had the opportunity to lay that small sum of money (pinball speaking) down again.

#3075 2 years ago

And as far as mermaid goes, bets are closed. All your aspersions are doing are making you look smaller as you tear into others reputations and characters for no profit or progress to you that i can see.

Bets are down mate.

#3076 2 years ago

Maybe it is as simple as sending a friendly email to Damian asking for a few photos of your machine in progress? Or just straight up ask him and let him know your concerns..
He seams like a very nice gentleman and a two minute photo does not seem to out of reach.

He doesn't bite. I don't think!

#3077 2 years ago

I am getting kicked for this , BUT

Negative cunts everywhere.
THIS is why the world is so fucked at the moment.
The minority scream and sook, then evryone panders to them to make them FEEL good.
Keep screaming negative and hope you are one day right so you can say , I told you so.
It really pisses me off! can you tell?

FUCK OFF you negative pricks

#3078 2 years ago

This was posted 7 months ago. They are shipping games now. Much more than what Deeproot showed.

16
#3079 2 years ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

I am getting kicked for this , BUT
Negative cunts everywhere.
THIS is why the world is so fucked at the moment.
The minority scream and sook, then evryone panders to them to make them FEEL good.
Keep screaming negative and hope you are one day right so you can say , I told you so.
It really pisses me off! can you tell?
FUCK OFF you negative pricks

You don’t see the irony in what you just wrote?

#3080 2 years ago
Quoted from hool10:

They are shipping games now.

They did a run of about 50 or 60 Celts and recently finished shipping those. They are not shipping fathoms now. After the recent video update which I think we all really appreciated, we seriously don't even know if they are making fathoms at the moment. We know they want to and have repeatedly said they're going to. I've got about $4300 invested now on 4 preorders. I'm not sending any more money until I see games... lots of working games going into boxes.

YMMV

#3081 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

You don’t see the irony in what you just wrote?

Nope, i wrote it with positivity

#3082 2 years ago

Still looking for another spot, d0n. Sell me one of yours and relieve some of your worry.

I'd ask jeffspinballpalace or flynnibus or even John Greatwitch, but they don't have one.

#3083 2 years ago

Damian did say there will be more video updates that should help out for those with concerns.

#3084 2 years ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

I am getting kicked for this , BUT
Negative cunts everywhere.
THIS is why the world is so fucked at the moment.
The minority scream and sook, then evryone panders to them to make them FEEL good.
Keep screaming negative and hope you are one day right so you can say , I told you so.
It really pisses me off! can you tell?
FUCK OFF you negative pricks

I once worked with someone who got hooked into literally every multilevel marketing scheme - in the short time I knew him, he was part of at least 6 of them. He paid for a car with a credit card so he could look successful. He tried recruiting me into one of his - I can't really remember which one specifically - maybe it was selling vitamins? Some mortgage scheme? Insurance? Knives? It really doesn't matter, I looked into it and said something like "Hey, Mark, these numbers really don't make sense, I'm not sure how anyone could make money with this"

His response: "Oh, they warned me not to listen to negative people like you!"

Fine by me, I kept my mouth shut every other time Mark signed up for another multilevel marketing scheme.

#3085 2 years ago
Quoted from punkin:

I don't know why you are trying to convince me or anyone else of your crap.

You're the guy who keeps trolling about what other people think on the subject -- then try to say you don't care when someone responds to your repeated droning about other people's opinions?

You're quite the piece of work. If you don't care, just shut up and wait for your game.

#3086 2 years ago
Quoted from roffels:

I once worked with someone who got hooked into literally every multilevel marketing scheme - in the short time I knew him, he was part of at least 6 of them. He paid for a car with a credit card so he could look successful. He tried recruiting me into one of his - I can't really remember which one specifically - maybe it was selling vitamins? Some mortgage scheme? Insurance? Knives? It really doesn't matter, I looked into it and said something like "Hey, Mark, these numbers really don't make sense, I'm not sure how anyone could make money with this"
His response: "Oh, they warned me not to listen to negative people like you!"
Fine by me, I kept my mouth shut every other time Mark signed up for another multilevel marketing scheme.

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#3087 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You're the guy who keeps trolling about what other people think on the subject -- then try to say you don't care when someone responds to your repeated droning about other people's opinions?
You're quite the piece of work. If you don't care, just shut up and wait for your game.

No pal, you quoted me.

I'd tell you to take your own advice, but you don't even have a game coming, so who's the fucking troll?

#3088 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

his podcasts have become irrelevant behind the paywall
he can bitch and moan all he wants to 450 listeners and they can soak it up - everybody else just doesn't care
Kudos to him, but there is so much better free content out there

Condemn me, but I still find his podcasts useful and relevant. He criticisms seem to be coming from the right place to me a lot of the time and I'm often in agreement.

#3089 2 years ago
Quoted from punkin:

Still looking for another spot, d0n. Sell me one of yours and relieve some of your worry.
I'd ask jeffspinballpalace or flynnibus or even John Greatwitch, but they don't have one.

Wish I had a hundred preorders to sell you and then you’d corner the market. But I’d keep one for myself this time.

#3090 2 years ago

I don't want one hundred.

You should buy your spot back from d0n.

ForThreethousandPunkin

12
#3091 2 years ago

As someone who was burned by Deeproot, understand there’s nothing wrong with trying to be confident in a boutique pinball maker.
As soon as they say games are on the line in July of 21 and then Jan of 22 and miss both of those, you would be a fool not to question what’s going on.
I’m relatively confident everyone will get their games eventually, but I don’t get attacking people for being concerned.
To the person referencing Big Lebowski as an example of Kaneda saying to be ware and how well that worked out, there are still people who ordered TBLs 6+ years ago who don’t have their games.
Questioning the lack of updates, or the flip from “we’re having parts issues and the build is challenging” to “your game goes out in 8 weeks, pay your balance” is beyond a fair question.
You can be for Haggis’s success but still have reasonable expectations as a customer.

#3092 2 years ago
Quoted from punkin:

I don't want one hundred.
You should buy your spot back from d0n.
ForThreethousandPunkin

Haha, I missed your sign off the first time. I really want a spot at cost, but I can’t do it. I want the product, but I don’t want the uncertainty. I don’t want to do business with someone who’s not being straight. You want a recent example?

kklank admitted to being a super grouper. 7 weeks ago he received his balance request letter, as Fathoms were going to be made. That means in 1 week, he should be receiving his game or a phone call about shipping, right? 8 weeks is 8 weeks and that is the same 8 weeks he has retold the first Fathom buyers in their recent email. So you’d think a factory would be pretty stuffed right now and easy to take a pic of. No pics means ???
.

#3093 2 years ago
Quoted from punkin:

Still looking for another spot, d0n. Sell me one of yours and relieve some of your worry.
I'd ask jeffspinballpalace or flynnibus or even John Greatwitch, but they don't have one.

I'll give it a couple months and see what happens. By the time I want to sell my preorders, people aren't going to want them! LOL

What was the original contract regarding the final payment? Was it... haggis could ask for the money anytime and you have to send it in? Or was it that they would ask for the rest of the money when your game was on the line or in the box or about to be on the line? There has to be some particulars to the preorder contract right? When does it say they will ask for the funds?

#3094 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Haha I missed your sign off the first time. I really want a spot at cost, but I can’t do it. I want the product, but I don’t want the uncertainty. I don’t want to do business with someone who’s not being straight. You want a recent example?
kklank admitted to being a super grouper. 7 weeks ago he received his balance request letter, as Fathoms we’re going to be made. That means in 1 week he should be receiving his game or a phone call about shipping, right? 8 weeks is 8 weeks and that is the same 8 weeks he has told first Fathom buyers. Wonder if a game shows up.

I missed the giant leap you made where you invented the 8 weeks for the series ticket thing. Have quoted kklank below, if you can show me where he said he was promised shipping in 8 weeks i'll go from there. He hasn't said he was told 8 weeks. They ship when they ship. My Celts took a couple of failed pickup dates, i wasn't worried then, just disappointed, and i'm not worried now.

In the mean time, you definitely shouldn't be worried about, let alone doing the rabble rousing that you indulge in, because it matters not a flying fuck to you.

Quoted from kklank:

I happen to be a series ticket holder.
I paid in full a few weeks ago by wire and was asked to send in full payment by wire probably 7 weeks ago.
I verified the wiring instructions just because wire fraud exists and I send thousands of wires out In my line of business and one should always be vigilant at all times when wiring out money to another party.
Hoping to receive notification that my game is ready to ship in the next couple weeks but I have no idea.
Any pinball company that is a start up will almost ALWAYS be short on working capital.
Fingers crossed.
And I will be having it shipped by air most definitely when the time comes. (Although not happy about the additional costs).
My gut tells me that Damian and his small company of employees are stand up guys but ultimately there are no guarantees.
What an amazing adventure he’s been on, I only hope it ends with some success because the amount of hours he has most likely put in to make this work has most likely been extraordinary.
Let go Haggis!!!! You can do it!!

#3095 2 years ago
Quoted from d0n:

I'll give it a couple months and see what happens. By the time I want to sell my preorders, people aren't going to want them! LOL

When I did a poll of expected 1st delivery dates, a large group of people felt games would start shipping by June 21. It was very unscientific, but it gauged general opinion. That is 3 months away and it seems feasible. Of course the next largest group of people felt it would take until 12/31/22, but we’ll focus on the first. On who wants to be a millionaire when they ask audience for help, the majority answer is usually correct. On America’s Fave Video they ask the audience to vote and they do a so so job, imo. So things should be sunnier by the start of Summer and if punkin doesn’t blow a gasket.

#3096 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Haha, I missed your sign off the first time. I really want a spot at cost, but I can’t do it. I want the product, but I don’t want the uncertainty. I don’t want to do business with someone who’s not being straight. You want a recent example?
kklank admitted to being a super grouper. 7 weeks ago he received his balance request letter, as Fathoms were going to be made. That means in 1 week, he should be receiving his game or a phone call about shipping, right? 8 weeks is 8 weeks and that is the same 8 weeks he has retold the first Fathom buyers in their recent email. So you’d think a factory would be pretty stuffed right now and easy to take a pic of. No pics means ???
.

I “admitted” it? A “super grouper”?? Is that really necessary?
Stop.
I understand the risks. I also understand that forecasts that are given aren’t always met.
Your “logical conclusions” are simply assumptions.

“I really want a spot”***** “But I can’t do it”.
“I want the product”***** “But I don’t want the uncertainty”.

It really sounds like you’re in conflict with yourself. Don’t take it out on me.

#3097 2 years ago

All for more pinball machines being available. Not my company or PR person for Haggis. But you got to show production & parts, or Fathoms going out the door. Not some show & dance promotion with 2 Fathom builds. Rick is not helping out being very silent, when he should come out & announce how happy he was with the sample game he got. Maybe PPS will be at TPF & do something special like have it there.

The years I was doing pinball parts since the start of my seminars at Expo, & other shows. People got to see the good, the bad, & the ugly. Spoke at many shows & never went silent. Took way longer (many years to get prepaid Star Gazer & Seawitch playfields out). Went broke & sold the biz to a more talented art expert to make the last few Seawitch playfield owners whole. What I learned from it the last year was if you try & get the color corrected perfectly for some people. You might go tits up & leave people without what they prepaid in whole to get playfields made. Glad people had real faith & it took me 2-7 years to get it done. Money burn is a real issue ramping up production for hundreds of Fathom builds.

On a final note, new backglass production was much easier to do over the years. I had a good printer, box builder, lucky cnc work shop (shit happens), glass supplier, wood supplier, tempered glass manufacturer (few bug rejects!), & finish clear coat shops were good & bad at times. PInball parts biz is hard, pinball manufacturing is crazy hard!

#3098 2 years ago

One itty bitty pic of the line and this could be put to rest. One picture. Once you have asked for full payment, that’s the least you can do.

Cheers

C.

#3099 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

I “admitted” it? A “super grouper”?? Is that really necessary?
Stop.
I understand the risks. I also understand that forecasts that are given aren’t always met.
Your “logical conclusions” are simply assumptions.
“I really want a spot”***** “But I can’t do it”.
“I want the product”***** “But I don’t want the uncertainty”.
It really sounds like you’re in conflict with yourself. Don’t take it out on me.

Have you received a delivery call yet? Is your game off the line? Do you know anything about what is going on at Haggis? Wrong, nobody does. Where’s your Fathom you were asked to pay for 7 weeks ago? I am not conflicted enough to buy a slot when I am not being dealt straight with, was the point I was trying to make.

#3100 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Why does Special k think he needs proof?

Why does Special K?

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