(Topic ID: 292168)

Haggis Pinball - 2nd game = Fathom + Fathom 2.0 confirmed

By FalconPunch

7 months ago


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There are 1,759 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 36.
#251 7 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

Sure! Everything is a gamble and pinball is a huge one. Even buying a NIB Stern is a gamble regarding playfield quality and what not. You know you will get your game but at what cost. I have played the gamble on NIB multiple times and have lost multiple times on playfield quality. It is what it is. I have no doubt Haggis has the drive to do this. Just depends on how many orders they get and their labor force as well as covid slowdowns. If I was Haggis I would have not given a timeline but I understand they need to at least give some timeframe but for those ordering I would at least double the time on expectation. Look at JJP. They still can't get games out fast enough and still wont give anyone any timeframe..
As far as investment goes....I don't understand that for I never have looked at pinball like that. I buy what I want to play. Not what I think will give me a return. I can't see the value of a mermaid version tanking on the aftermarket though and should hold its value steady like the majority of NIB. But again who cares if you lose money if you got you moneys worth of fun. That's all that matters.

JJP definitely is having a hard time turning out games and they are a larger company and still can’t keep up with demand. 250 is not a lot but the last game they made only had 18 produced. That’s a 1289% increase in production. If they can do it, then I applaud them, but I have my doubts.

#252 7 months ago

So if the rumor is right this is 1 of 5 Bally games Haggis plans on remaking? So hold and wait for Eight Ball Deluxe.

#253 7 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

If the standard had the new code then people would forgo the 9k version and they would prob be stuck having to build a couple more hundred units which is prob not what they want to do or are capable of doing.

I doubt they fear having too many orders - that's a good thing (and way better than over-estimating orders). I think we should all face the obvious... just like the JJP SE editions, they are games priced to advertise a price point (Wonka SE) or help upsell the higher editions.

If they just put out one edition at $9000 or whatever... it stands on its own to take all the abuse. What is the closest thing to compare it to? Every other game is so different, etc. If you launch a lesser model and a higher model and position them well, you give yourself something to compare to... and upsell people to the higher model driving your ASP higher. And in this case of a small manufacturer, hopefully driving people to drive the economies of scale for that higher model.

If the base model had everything people wanted, no one would buy the higher model. The magic is always making the base model 'just bad enough' to steer people to the higher model.

Based on the comments in the two interviews, they really seem focused on fueling the FOMO engine and trying to sell out their 250 mermaid games. Anything beyond that is gravy... but everything from timelines to scale seem to be driven around 'how to build 250 games'.

They should want to keep building standards as their margins will improve as they refine the same product.

I'd be willing to bet $20 in the future there will be a 2.0 upgrade available for the baseline games... but I wouldn't imagine it would happen until AFTER they've started selling title #3. They don't want to undermine the 'exclusivity' of the limited version.

#254 7 months ago

Congratulations Haggis pinball, getting the licence for multiple Bally SS remakes is huge news. Very smart business move. Just surprised it took this long.

I'll take a Flash Gordon, Eightball Deluxe, Embryon, and Centaur.

Cheers!

#255 7 months ago
Quoted from Buffooned:

So if the rumor is right this is 1 of 5 Bally games Haggis plans on remaking? So hold and wait for Eight Ball Deluxe.

Crap, I’m buying a Bally’s grand slam tomorrow. I should probably hold out and see if it gets remade

#256 7 months ago
Quoted from gonzo73:

Congratulations Haggis pinball, getting the licence for multiple Bally SS remakes is huge news. Very smart business move. Just surprised it took this long.
I'll take a Flash Gordon, Eightball Deluxe, Embryon, and Centaur.
Cheers!

I would say those are the other big games to remake and they would be popular. But Flash Gordon would likely be almost impossible to get the rights to re-make with more Queen music tracks and make a 2.0 version to modern expectations and songs everyone would want.

#257 7 months ago

Flash Gordon licencei s probably not difficult, but getting the Queen Soundtrack to upgrade the game, will be the tough part, but doable .
They just need to get Roger Sharp on the licensing team, and he'll get it done.

#258 7 months ago

Gambling on what titles they are eyeing..

#1 Fathom
#2 Centaur
#3 High Speed
#4 Sorcerer
#5 Pinbot

If they would embrace widebody - Count on Paragon
Some of the other titles like Medusa I think are just too ambitious mechanically

#259 7 months ago

Did Haggis say 5 Bally licenses, or a mix of Bally and William's SS licences???

Clarification?

#260 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Gambling on what titles they are eyeing..
#1 Fathom
#2 Centaur
#3 High Speed
#4 Sorcerer
#5 Pinbot
If they would embrace widebody - Count on Paragon
Some of the other titles like Medusa I think are just too ambitious mechanically

3-5 are not Bally titles

#261 7 months ago
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

JJP definitely is having a hard time turning out games and they are a larger company and still can’t keep up with demand. 250 is not a lot but the last game they made only had 18 produced.

I think we all should consider this a brand new company in this regard

Old games were made using a homebrew/home-made approach to things. "How can I get this done with the stuff I have and within my means". It was a great learning experience and adventure for them I'm sure... but look at everything changing for the next effort.

Majority new Staff
New facilities
New hardware platform
Switching from a scale of 'do it ourselves' to 'contracting and staffing to do things'
Working within external constraints due to existing parts and designs (and big brother Rick)
Working within expectations of a prior title

The last points especially mean there is high scrutiny vs something that was done for 'practicality of getting it done' like they would do for alot of their mechanics or design choices before.

Damien has shown himself to be resourceful, to be an optimist, and to have an attitude that everyone has to love. But this isn't just 'game #2' for them, this is a whole shift in approach, means, expectations, and execution.

Think about why they launched now? Why so early? Is there other market pressure they were trying to beat? I think it was nothing short of getting the money and interest locked in so they can source parts orders and get real world interest measurements so they can feel good amp'ing up their spending.

#262 7 months ago

Order confirmation #170 ME baby!! Let’s go!!!

#263 7 months ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

3-5 are not Bally titles

You don't say??

Who said their 'classics' line was ONLY bally games? He committed to PPS - who has rights for both.

#264 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Gambling on what titles they are eyeing..
#1 Fathom
#2 Centaur
#3 High Speed
#4 Sorcerer
#5 Pinbot
If they would embrace widebody - Count on Paragon
Some of the other titles like Medusa I think are just too ambitious mechanically

#1 Fathom
#2 Centaur
#3 Eight Ball Deluxe
#4 Joust
#5 Swords of Fury (LIONMAN Edition)

#265 7 months ago

In order of confidence, I’m guessing Fathom, EBD, Centaur, Skateball, Viking. Maybe Medusa or Xenon

Edit oh and Voltan. That may be very likely. Super rare

#266 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You don't say??
Who said their 'classics' line was ONLY bally games? He committed to PPS - who has rights for both.

Quoted from gonzo73:

Did Haggis say 5 Bally licenses, or a mix of Bally and William's SS licences???
Clarification?

From Haggis: "Fathom is the first in a series of five titles we will be revisiting, all in the same era as Fathom TM - the golden age of Bally Classics. "

Guess that leaves it a little bit open, but I think they mean Bally.

#267 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You don't say??
Who said their 'classics' line was ONLY bally games? He committed to PPS - who has rights for both.

Because he said classic Bally specifically. So I’ll take him at his word he’s going to stick to that 79-83 period of Bally games

#268 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:You don't say??
Who said their 'classics' line was ONLY bally games? He committed to PPS - who has rights for both.

They did

0C2029FC-CAC9-4C99-92AE-FEC482112878 (resized).png
#269 7 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

In order of confidence, I’m guessing Fathom, EBD, Centaur, Skateball, Viking. Maybe Medusa or Xenon

Skateball with hardtop would be hard to resist. Would definitely consiter EBD also.

#270 7 months ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

#1 Fathom
#2 Centaur
#3 Eight Ball Deluxe
#4 Joust
#5 Swords of Fury (LIONMAN Edition)

Everyone says EBD - but the # of them makes me wonder if that's a risker bet. Plus, does pool limit your potential for 2.0 rules?
Joust just seems too risky for all the obvious reasons (cabinet, head to head, etc). If they were going that way, I'd consider Defender first.
SoF is an interesting one... I was tempted to throw out Space Shuttle or Taxi.

Even tho there are more 'rare' titles - I gotta think they want to chase 'favorites' not just 'hard to get' ones too.

14
#271 7 months ago

Medusa is next. Bank on it. Why?

Because I just finished my Fathom playfield swap today, and Medusa is next to get a new playfield. As soon as I’m done, look for the announcement from Haggis.

#272 7 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Because he said classic Bally specifically. So I’ll take him at his word he’s going to stick to that 79-83 period of Bally games

Quoted from cooked71:

From Haggis: "Fathom is the first in a series of five titles we will be revisiting, all in the same era as Fathom TM - the golden age of Bally Classics. "
Guess that leaves it a little bit open, but I think they mean Bally.

Quoted from mjalexan:

They did
[quoted image]

Good spot - I was going on the interviews and the discussion. I think 5 is gonna be digging pretty deep if they stick to the -35 era games. Lots of exclusivity, but as much 'desirability'??

I don't see xenon pulling in that kind of demand... nor Viking.. for instance.

Let's hope we get to see them get that far to find out!

#273 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Everyone says EBD - but the # of them makes me wonder if that's a risker bet. Plus, does pool limit your potential for 2.0 rules?
Joust just seems too risky for all the obvious reasons (cabinet, head to head, etc). If they were going that way, I'd consider Defender first.
SoF is an interesting one... I was tempted to throw out Space Shuttle or Taxi.
Even tho there are more 'rare' titles - I gotta think they want to chase 'favorites' not just 'hard to get' ones too.

Idk. Stern made Sharkeys Shootout which is essentially EBD with modes and some tweaks.

#274 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Good spot - I was going on the interviews and the discussion. I think 5 is gonna be digging pretty deep if they stick to the -35 era games. Lots of exclusivity, but as much 'desirability'??
I don't see xenon pulling in that kind of demand... nor Viking.. for instance.
Let's hope we get to see them get that far to find out!

Yet Viking is among the most valuable of that era. It’s not Fathom or Centaur level valuable, but like you said you start to reach with 5 titles of this era.

I don’t think highly of Medusa, but a lot of people have been asking for it

#275 7 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:Idk. Stern made Sharkeys Shootout which is essentially EBD with modes and some tweaks.

I knew you'd find a way for Gary to get paid in all of this

#276 7 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Yet Viking is among the most valuable of that era. It’s not Fathom or Centaur level valuable, but like you said you start to reach with 5 titles of this era.

'Hard to Get' but still need 'I'm willing to pay to have that title'. I have my doubts on Viking for that. Frontier is another in that category - high priced... but mass appeal as well? Seems iffy.

We could always see them just remake games WITHOUT the 2.0 rules, etc too. This is one of the negatives of this offer to buy all 5 future titles. You do kinda paint yourself into the corner with expectations.

Let's see title #1 flowing... really hoping they get back to their regular vlogs... loved his YT content.

#277 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You don't say??
Who said their 'classics' line was ONLY bally games? He committed to PPS - who has rights for both.

Screenshot_20210426-181739_Chrome (resized).jpg
#278 7 months ago

Bally Kiss would do very well

#279 7 months ago

So I've honest to God have been wanting a centaur and fathom. Now will be a good chance to get both soon!

#280 7 months ago

Yeah thx for that.

Not super thrilled by the suggestion of 'help us choose'. This sounds more and more like just a contract lockup and not flushed out plans.

#281 7 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

As far as investment goes....I don't understand that for I never have looked at pinball like that. I buy what I want to play. Not what I think will give me a return. I can't see the value of a mermaid version tanking on the aftermarket though and should hold its value steady like the majority of NIB. But again who cares if you lose money if you got you moneys worth of fun. That's all that matters.

Sounds like a person who has enough space and/or funds to buy and hold onto as many games as you like.

Many of us are space or budget limited, and need to sell/trade old games in order to get new ones. So pins holding their value is a big deal to folks like me. Being careful with buying and selling is what has allowed me to own the games that I have.

#282 7 months ago

I have to say that Damien seems to have pulled a marketing win here....after ~5 months of no games, in a sellers market, on the cusp of Stern announcing their next title, he put a moneyfunnel on the collectors out there by taking pre-order deposits.
But the true genius was that he gave us two ways to engage. the 1 game deposit plan, or the multi-year, 5 game deposit plan!
Way to go Damien, super savvy.

Also the 2.0 version with the added LCD on the apron (not a pinbar! not a pinbar!) is a supercool idea.

#283 7 months ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

Bally Kiss would do very well

Gene would want way too much money unfortunately.

#284 7 months ago

Huge congrats to Haggis on this release - I wish them the very best!

#285 7 months ago

Please be Mrs. Potatoehead, I mean Centaur... please be Centaur...

#286 7 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I'd be willing to bet $20 in the future there will be a 2.0 upgrade available for the baseline games

I'll bet you $200 that if they don't, that somebody will hack a work around so the baselines can play 2.0 and then here comes Dongle Wars 2.0

#287 7 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Sounds like a person who has enough space and/or funds to buy and hold onto as many games as you like.
Many of us are space or budget limited, and need to sell/trade old games in order to get new ones. So pins holding their value is a big deal to folks like me. Being careful with buying and selling is what has allowed me to own the games that I have.

Neither to be honest with you. My comment on buying a pin as an investment was talking about those individuals who only buy with the speculation of the game going up in value. Not buying a game that they actually want to play and enjoy. That is what I am talking about. Would you rather buy a game that you don't care to play and gain a $1,000 on it a year later when you sell or would you rather buy a game that you enjoy playing but lose $1,000 on it a year later? I would pick the latter. If someone picks the first choice then that sounds like a bad time. You can find a way to make up the difference to buy another one a year later. Life is too short to try and make a quick buck on a pinball machine.

#288 7 months ago

Since PP is mentioned as the parts source for thus new release, they would be wise to produce extra inline drops and the 6 bank assemblies. They would sell well after the initial feeding frenzy is over for those doing conversions.

#289 7 months ago

I’d find it very hard to drop AU$6k non-refundable on four titles that I have no idea of what they are, when they would be coming and price of each.

#290 7 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

Neither to be honest with you. My comment on buying a pin as an investment was talking about those individuals who only buy with the speculation of the game going up in value. Not buying a game that they actually want to play and enjoy. That is what I am talking about. Would you rather buy a game that you don't care to play and gain a $1,000 on it a year later when you sell or would you rather buy a game that you enjoy playing but lose $1,000 on it a year later? I would pick the latter. If someone picks the first choice then that sounds like a bad time. You can find a way to make up the difference to buy another one a year later. Life is too short to try and make a quick buck on a pinball machine.

So more speaking of "flippers." I get ya. Still, a pin retaining good value isn't a bad thing at all. Plus, the really fun games tend to be the ones that hold their value anyway.

#291 7 months ago
Quoted from Boof-Ed:

I’d find it very hard to drop AU$6k non-refundable on four titles that I have no idea of what they are, when they would be coming and price of each.

The reverse of that is… it’s quite easy to NOT drop the AU$6k.

There you go, you’re welcome. I’m a glass half full kinda guy.

#292 7 months ago
Quoted from Boof-Ed:

I’d find it very hard to drop AU$6k non-refundable on four titles that I have no idea of what they are, when they would be coming and price of each.

Yep.

Seriously though ... the only Bally 77-85 pins that would/could command $8000-9000 bucks for a new one are Fathom and Centaur.

Nobody is paying 8000 bucks for Fireball 2 - as cool as it is. Mine was $400 USD! Lol

KISS would be one that could fit the bill, if they can get the licence. It took Gary Stern 6 years to get Gene down to a reasonable amount. Gary told me Gene wanted $1m cash up front at the start.

So ... fathom and centaur ... yes

The others ... not so much.

Not in volume anyway.

rd

#293 7 months ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Yep.
Seriously though ... the only Bally 77-85 pins that would/could command $8000-9000 bucks for a new one are Fathom and Centaur.
Nobody is paying 8000 bucks for Fireball 2 - as cool as it is. Mine was $400 USD! Lol
KISS would be one that could fit the bill, if they can get the licence. It took Gary Stern 6 years to get Gene down to a reasonable amount. Gary told me Gene wanted $1m cash up front at the start.
So ... fathom and centaur ... yes
The others ... not so much.
Not in volume anyway.
rd

Only other would be EBD

#294 7 months ago

All this fish talk makes me hungry for something a tad more affordable.

112DA1AA-E26C-4DFF-8500-C19334E8727F (resized).jpeg

#295 7 months ago

My wish list for Haggis repros:

Spirit
Defender
BMX

#296 7 months ago

Reflectocab is a new technique that is very hard to describe but looks amazing. Similar to what is used on street signs to assist with reading at night time.
The cabinet looks like it is glowing from backlighting when in a dark room.

#297 7 months ago

I've always said someone should remake Fathom, Centaur and other old Ballys. Problem here is the price is insane. If they can make a classic version Monster Bash for a little over $6200, the classic version of Fathom should be $5000 AT THE MOST.

#298 7 months ago
Quoted from lachied:

Reflectocab is a new technique that is very hard to describe but looks amazing. Similar to what is used on street signs to assist with reading at night time.
The cabinet looks like it is glowing from backlighting when in a dark room.

Is it spray painted/screened or a decal?

#299 7 months ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Shipping a whole container of pins works out pretty cheap (per pin)
Like ... around $100-150 per unit when I last did it (used, unboxed pins)
International shipping is stuffed at the moment though. Huge delays everywhere.
Hopefully it’ll come right in the next year.
rd

Just got new rates for European FCL's today. Plus 250-300% increase from 6 months ago!

#300 7 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Is it spray painted/screened or a decal?

They mentioned decals in the interviews

There are 1,759 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 36.

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