Lmao. I don't care what side of this you are on, that is one funny ass comment.

You’d think. This isn’t a great way to build demand momentum for future games so they need to knock it outta the park on Fathom. Seems they followed the Spooky model of abundant transparency initially then took a hard left to the Heighway/Dutch/Deeproot/etc model of putting out one game then ignoring Pinside.

You pretty much can't get flood insurance at Lismore, the place where the pictured Maccas is, someone last night was telling me someone they knew was quoted $22,000 a year for household flood insurance

Well,well,well lol.

Miss ya in the DR threads man!

if this is true that's the best news I've heard in a long time about fathom mermaid.

I also emailed with Damien 3 weeks or so ago. He said that video updates are double-edged sword and every time he does one it seems to backfire and blow up in his face. I think he's just not going to do one for a while. I wouldn't take the silence to mean fathoms aren't being produced. If we all stop emailing him for a little while he can get some stuff done

I think the only video update that backfired was the one where he said shite and just repeated what he had said months before without really qualifying anything.

Garbage in, garbage out

Damien has done a good job stopping leaks about his new release. There is zero information about its current status, appearance nor game play. Not even a dependable rumor. Problem is this is no longer a top secret proposal, Fathom pinball remake was sold as a real product to 250 people and it came with a promised delivery beginning July 2021. Damien owes all 250 people an update on their pinball machine. Not individual emails, but put an update on YouTube so everyone gets the same info at the same time. The public is owed an update as well because of Damien’s intent to build and offer future pinballs. How Damien operates as a business now, how he communicates with customers and how honest he is about delays are chief concerns that are impacting Haggis’s viability. #TheLastUpdateWasNotAnUpdate.

yes the very last update he did and he got jumped all over... which is likely the reason for the silence now.

You don't speak for me mate. I'm not 'owed' anything except an invoice for a balance and a pinball machine when it's ready.

What Is a Sense of Entitlement?
You owe me. The entitlement mentality is defined as a sense of deservingness or being owed a favor when little or nothing has been done to deserve special treatment. It’s the “you owe me” attitude.

Entitlement is a narcissistic personality trait. It’s not known exactly how this mentality develops. It may be due to social factors like:

The environment you grew up in
The way your parents treated you
Whether adults solved your problems for you
How you are treated by authority figures
The environment you’re raised in can affect how you see the world and what you expect from other people. It can even affect personal and professional relationships.

How Entitlement Mentality Affects Relationships and Mental Health
People with an entitlement mentality often see themselves as superior to others. It’s no surprise that this way of thinking affects interpersonal relationships.

@punkin, I don’t always agree with what you write. You can be controversial and brash and generally not nice sometimes (imho). But like you said above, nobody is owed niceness from you and nobody is owed anything from Haggis except a final product once ready. I read this thread daily and keep my mouth shut time and time again as the pitchfork nation rallies behind the call for more updates or else. Here a a few thoughts that run through my head (as a patient customer with an early deposit).

1. Putting a deposit down on anything that is not ready to ship immediately comes with risk. If someone wasn’t ready to take that risk, they probably should have thought about this before sending the deposit. I personally believe the risk is extremely low at this point that everyone won’t receive a pin, but I certainly can’t say it’s zero because until they’re built and shipped, anything could happen.

2. Some people are trying to tell Haggis what their next move should be (to provide an update). But imho, if Damien were to provide an update, the pitchfork nation would only tear it apart and find something else to complain about. They’ll do this because ultimately what they want is their pin. Thus, the only logical move (and sound business decision) is for Damien to make his next move be the actual shipping of pins… a lot of them. This is what I’d do if I were him, and it’s really the only move that will shut people up and satisfy the majority (or vocal minority, you pick).

3. This has taken longer than many of us had hoped, including me. Big deal… see #1. The world doesn’t operate on my personal timeline. I adjust and deal with it. Teaming up as a mob to somehow coerce the timeline to act differently likewise has no effect. Let’s all go play some pinball and be happy today that we’re not getting bombed out of our homes and land.

Pretty well said mate. I agree with all of it.

Didn't read all this because I'm lazy but I agree with the part I did read.

The darn game will come when it comes don't we all have enough machines already anyway.

There is plenty of updates on the state of affairs for anyone prepared to investigate for themselves.

There's more going on than some people care to know about.

Doesn't look like either 'side' of this is going to convince the other of anything. The game will either show up or it won't. I hope it does so that someday I can pair my old Fathom with a new, reproduction something else.

So self-inflicted...

Stupid to blame people for reacting... just the way they should instead of reflecting and saying "was it something I said?"

They are on the vendor (booth) list for TPF. I wonder if they've been knuckling down to build some games to get them shipped over here in time to show off. Hmmmmm... I'm going with that theory.

I asked about a month ago. He said wasn't sure if he'd be there. I hope he is and we can see a fathom.

I’ve yet to hear one person state they didn’t expect to get their game. What is being requested is a project status. The need for info has nothing to do with asker’s sense of entitlement nor narcissism, Damien has sold a product that he needs to build in order for it to exist and then he must ship the games. As Fathom is way behind schedule, Haggis NEEDS to provide status to their customers and to future customers (general public).

Anyone that can state with a straight face, “I have no idea why customers would want an update nor why would anyone who is not a customer need an update nor I have all the information about the Fathom build needed and there is no reason for Damien to give anybody an update?” is in the minority. Meaning you are approaching this sale differently than any other purchase you’ve made in your life and then are wondering why people find this odd.

Withholding the truth and not discussing a product you are making because people hate what you tell them is NOT a reason to go radio silent. People deserve the truth. Did Damien lie in Mar 2021 when he said games would be starting in July 2021 and he requested a deposit? yes. Did Damien lie in Dec 2021 when he said manufacturing was ready to start in Jan 2022? yes. Now imagine if Damien had said in Mar 2021 that production would start in April of 2022 and he requested money. We would be exactly where we are today but we would have been informed along the way. As we approach April 2022, Damien would be telling us what still remains to be done and when the first pieces of cabinet nail together. Not talking about the project you are working on does not make it happen any faster, nor does it slow you down. It is abnormal behavior. Just be semi-transparent.

One of outcomes of being so secretive and being behind schedule and not telling your customers anything is that some of their real customers wanting a refund still can’t get one. The pressure from not offering refunds was building and getting hot, but for the efforts of a few customers to buy deposits from multiple customers wishing a refund. But there are still more people wanting a refund who haven’t found a way to sell their deposit. If Damien were to address that issue and get everyone wanting a refund one, then maybe he would have some justification for continuing to remain silent. But short of that, he’s better off coming clean imo. Plus he’s got to be close to shipping some games. Get the word out.

Apparently pinball is the only industry where you sell first and make second.*
FD488C18-C5FD-4D89-B956-FF38D53A0A80.jpeg

So I very cautiously join this conversation as "the new customer" without any background knowledge or bias regarding Haggis. I have the opportunity to purchase a mermaid slot (middle of the 250 pack I am advised)

I also emailed Damian, when I first even learned about Haggis a month ago & he responded quickly and answered my questions. My question for the group here is - realistically how many can these guys honestly produce per month? My only reference was when I heard from Cointaker recently that Dutch was now shipping 20-25 TBLs/month which led to estimating when I may get that one that I also have a deposit on.

So if Haggis is in that range at full production, lets say in March, seems like no realistic probability I would see a machine in Jun/Jul which is what I was advised if I purchase. It would take close to two years to fulfill the 250 mermaids?? Am I way off base with this question? can they do 50+ a month?

thanks for the comments/opinions on this, I need to decide if I will purchase - part of me is optimistically excited, the other part thinks, there's $1000 that I will eventually lose

Confused - why didn't you ask Haggis that question? What did they say?

They initially were targeting like 50/month - but of course the plan vs reality is... a big gap so far

I did ask Damain that exact question, but have not heard back yet. So thought I would inquire here if there is existing knowledge before I make my D/P decision

35- 50 / month would easily support a decent timeline. But if its 10-20 /mo then its clearly longer than we may be thinking

thanks!

I would not look at this as an opportunity. If the pin gets produced , certainly you will have a chance to pick on up.

I would not believe one word i heard from Cointaker.

So there was lots of news over the years & now almost nothing. I wish Haggis the best at getting the Fathom builds & future ones built. That being said I will wait & see how this plays out or hits a brick wall. Lots of info in the past about machinery used for their first build, but nothing since. Status of employees at hopefully the near end of Covid, any natural disasters in Australia, or problems getting certain parts.

Sorry you feel that way. I know Chris and Melissa at Cointaker and I find them to be honorable people. Thoughtful and hard working too.

Respect your opinion and i bet they are nice people, but i am not alone.

But also apparently willing to say something, just to have something to say. Melissa overloads herself and loses track of conversations, prior commits, and will have stories that just don't hold up. It's unfortunate as I don't think it's ill intended, but the track record is there -- reliability and follow-through are weaknesses.

Yes, you'll probably have a chance to buy one of the 250 fathom mermaids when they are produced but for a H-U-G-E-L-Y inflated price... like double MSRP. The controversy and delay only adds to the games market value.

mjmpin if you dont buy it, PM me. I will.
thanks

Sorry, I bought it. I get the risk, but the game is so gorgeous. and I need a vintage pin to sit beside my Black Knight

If I waited I'd just get a classic, but even Damian stated those would likely be Q4, realistically next year. So Im excited about the Mermaid & the 2.0 code!

Here's wishing them great success in manufacturing and I am hoping to see this beauty by summer

Congrats. The really nice original fathoms are costing more than a haggis fathom classic now! There's one on pinside today for $7500. :O

If I was Damian, I'd be secretly bringing a mermaid to TPF and unveiling it. What a perfect moment in time it would be for Haggis! There's no other NEW pinball games out now to reveal except maybe weird AL and not sure if Gerry will even be there with the game. JJP won't be there with Toy Story.

Last time he took Celts to Pincinatti he won Best Modern Pin.

FF6hzhuXwAESjzX (resized).jpg

That would be sweet to see the production intent game. Hopefully they send just the game and have Planetary or someone else running the booth. Their order books are full for the foreseeable future at this pace and should be focused on fulfillment before taking a victory lap.

I think the makers of Fathom Mermaid deserve a victory lap. I'm sure the owner could pull himself away from production for a few days without too much of a slowdown.

Okay but please no preorders for Bally game #2!

You mean Centaur? Yea, it might be too early for that! LOL!
Although, he already has about 20 preorders in for his next 4 Bally remakes from what I understand. I heard there's around 20 season ticket holders.

double post

Hello ? Bueller ? Bueller ?

200EF340-0C05-470F-BD99-6DBA8DE46B6A (resized).jpeg

Even Rick has gone silent on the sample he approved. Any pictures or is this just a shell game with Fathom builds. Seems like Haggis will likely follow Dutch Pinball for production. Was there 100 or more Celts games made. Hard to follow the production with no information or a real PR person to answer questions & promote sales. Personally I do not listen to podcasts, maybe there is more info there.

Legit info or just theory? If they don’t reveal TS, my bet is on a POTC re-run. GnR is caught up so something is coming at TPF!

As for Haggis, keep the faith brothers. Fathom is coming - and soon!

Faith is the one thing sorely lacking for some in this thread and for those that have that faith, they are labelled fanboys

Got this notice this morning for my Celts, hope this will reassure some of us that Haggis is still ALIVE!!!

CEA29A3C-A325-4CD7-A856-557313DF9B3A (resized).png

Yawn

If he shows up at TPF with a fathom and wins BEST MODERN PIN... that would be amazing. There's a ton of competition though.

Maybe there should be a boutique category? "Best boutique pinball game". The boutique games would still compete in the "best modern pinball" category but stern and JJP couldn't wouldn't be competing in boutique category. Makes it more fair for the little guys.

Woot! Keep watching the tracking on that, as it may at some point ask you for import details to fill out, so as to not delay at any point through customs..

nevermind

Can't view this unfortunately.

* -login to view this story-

It's called a shameless plug gone wrong!

It's an Instagram post.

Delete

All my twitches are from cramps.