(Topic ID: 292168)

Haggis Pinball - 2nd game = Fathom (officially defunct 7/2024)

By FalconPunch

3 years ago


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48 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 10,431 posts in this topic. You are on page 189 of 209.
10
#9401 52 days ago

Finally thread ejected. Broken record indeed.

26
#9402 52 days ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

Are you guys following me? Creepy .

Yes, we are following you in a thread you post 12 times a day in.

It's just a stalkathon around here! Creepy!

#9403 52 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yes, we are following you in a thread you post 12 times a day in.
It's just a stalkathon around here! Creepy!

I have a little clicker I actuate each time I see you Levi, I'm taking gold in the stalkathon this year.

#9404 52 days ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You are so ridiculously tone deaf. It turns out that what you claimed was bashing was just people telling the truth. Haggis has been lying for over a year and stealing peoples money. Damian stole some of my money and lots of others. I can make more money, life will go on. But Damian is a liar and a crook and nothing should be cheered about him.

He and Gilligan are actually friends. I wonder what he knows?

17
#9405 52 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead_:

It's got to be a fetish, right? Constantly flouting your tone deafness in the face of the situation.
The age-old "F*ck you, I've got mine" adage that's crippled people since the dawn of time.

You can usually tell a lot about a person's mental capacity as well as how good or bad of a person they truly are by how much effort it takes them to admit they were wrong/take responsibility for their actions. When theres a mountain of undeniable proof and a person is still blustering about how they did nothing wrong, have no regrets, weren't wrong, ect....well its just really bad. Pathetic even. Especially when they are still shouting about how they are actually the good guy and everybody else is bad. Its embarrassing as hell.

-1
#9406 52 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

He and Gilligsn are actually friends. I wonder what he knows?

Do you have actual proof of that??

#9407 52 days ago
Quoted from Mancave:

Do you have actual proof of that??

Its clear as day. He is a bad person and bad for pinball.

#9408 52 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Its clear as day. He is a bad person and bad for pinball

That wasn't the question. I asked if you have actual proof that "Gilligan" and Damian are friends??

#9409 52 days ago
Quoted from Mancave:

That wasn't the question. I asked if you have actual proof that "Gilligan" and Damian are friends??

Damien has no Friends in Pinball

#9410 52 days ago
Quoted from Mancave:

That wasn't the question. I asked if you have actual proof that "Gilligan" and Damian are friends??

I've never seen any evidence of that, not sure if they've even ever met in person. Gilligan seems more like a "please notice me" kind of guy. A simp, as the kids say.

Quoted from Ballypinball:

Damien has no Friends in Pinball

Maybe Marty?

47
#9411 52 days ago

Gilligan’s behavior at this point is just disgusting. I thought that maybe he would stop acting like a schmuck when haggis’ demise became official, but somehow he became even more so.

As more info comes out, things are only getting uglier. The level of deceit appears to far greater than first believed. Which makes we question the mental fitness of anyone continuing to try to defend Damian.

#9412 52 days ago

I don't think speculating mental state helps much. He's been ejected, no sense in kicking while he can't respond.

End of day- Haggis blows. Back to Offal Pinball please.

#9413 52 days ago

When i went to Scotland last year they tried to feed me some "Haggis". It's the most nasty meat concoction i've ever come across. Go figure.

23
#9414 52 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead_:

He's been ejected, no sense in kicking while he can't respond.

Not sure I agree with you. It's nice to be able to point out he's acting like a tool without having to read his bullshit.

#9415 52 days ago

Comfort yourself in knowing he wouldn't extend the same courtesy to any ejected Haggis critic.

#9416 52 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead_:

You obviously don't feel bad or you'd have a bit of decorum and avoid telling people at every corner that you got your game(s) and they're sooo amazing // Tough luck for people that were defrauded . It's that or like I said- tone deaf.

Not to mention it was someone who didn't get a game who actually paid for Gilligan's game or he too wouldn't have gotten one.

39
#9417 52 days ago

Spent the last week combing through all the pinside threads, business records, old videos, interviews, etc. in an attempt to construct a cohesive timeline of events for reference. Feel free to email or PM if there's anything major missing.

https://www.kineticist.com/post/timeline-of-the-haggis-pinball-collapse

**the link above has been updated on 7/26/24 with new info.

Added 44 days ago:

Link updated 8/2 with new info

#9418 52 days ago
Quoted from calsheimer:

Spent the last week combing through all the pinside threads, business records, old videos, interviews, etc. in an attempt to construct a cohesive timeline of events for reference. Feel free to email or PM if there's anything major missing.
https://www.kineticist.com/post/timeline-of-the-haggis-pinball-collapse

Lot of effort to produce this - nice work

#9419 52 days ago
Quoted from calsheimer:

Spent the last week combing through all the pinside threads, business records, old videos, interviews, etc. in an attempt to construct a cohesive timeline of events for reference. Feel free to email or PM if there's anything major missing.
https://www.kineticist.com/post/timeline-of-the-haggis-pinball-collapse

Great article

#9420 51 days ago
Quoted from calsheimer:

Spent the last week combing through all the pinside threads, business records, old videos, interviews, etc. in an attempt to construct a cohesive timeline of events for reference. Feel free to email or PM if there's anything major missing.
https://www.kineticist.com/post/timeline-of-the-haggis-pinball-collapse

Nice work mate.

#9421 51 days ago

Word in the street is someone related to this company is taking the piss?

#9422 51 days ago
Quoted from calsheimer:

Spent the last week combing through all the pinside threads, business records, old videos, interviews, etc. in an attempt to construct a cohesive timeline of events for reference. Feel free to email or PM if there's anything major missing.
https://www.kineticist.com/post/timeline-of-the-haggis-pinball-collapse

Thanks for the work. Wish it was posted on a site with less ads to scroll past. But nice work mate.

#9423 51 days ago

Very unfortunate that so many pinball enthusiasts have become well aquainted with criminal activey and have become well versed in documenting these mis-deeds. Not to mention the millions lost to scammers.

Welcome to the club Damien.

19
#9424 51 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

?? The

Not to mention it was someone who didn't get a game who actually paid for Gilligan's game or he too wouldn't have gotten one.

Don’t forget that Gilligan at the start had series ticket money in "escrow" that for financial reasons Damian allowed to be removed and put towards his Fathom. If he still had that 6k in "escrow" I’d say he’d be singing a very different tune right now.

#9425 51 days ago
Quoted from Boof-Ed:

Don’t forget that Gilligan at the start had series ticket money in "escrow" that for financial reasons Damian allowed to be removed and put towards his Fathom. If he still had that 6k in "escrow" I’d say he’d be singing a very different tune right now.

I didn’t forget. I’m sure other people remember too. Crying about hardships.

#9426 51 days ago

I'm not a creditor of Haggis Pinball Pty Ltd, so there is no reason that the liquidators would provide this information to me.

If you are a creditor, then the liquidators can likely confirm to you what we have all suspected: that Haggis Pinball pty ltd never held a Trust Account (escrow) holding funds securely for series ticket holders and that this was a misrepresentation from the beginning.

68
#9427 51 days ago

This is a rough timeline with some images of the events from my perspective...

The Lead Up

Damian and I met at a local pinball tournament. I had been doing my own custom machine for a while and we talked about Celts and other stuff. He seemed nice.

Oct 2019 -
Went out to his factory (small one at 1/49 Industrial Cct, Cranbourne West) - Pic120191005_120502_HDR (resized).jpg20191005_120502_HDR (resized).jpg
He showed me the current state of Celts and I told him I could 3D model a better castle for him. (before)20191005_115229 (resized).jpg20191005_115229 (resized).jpg 20191207_123942 (resized).jpg20191207_123942 (resized).jpg (after)

Late 2019 - May 2021 -> I made around 20 visits to the old factory (1+hr drive) plus a lot of work at home

Damian had very little knowledge of Fusion 360 so I ended up updating a bunch of the Celts models over that period.

Early 2020 a team formed to work on a War of the Worlds machine - Codename Alice
This team was...
Damian - Conman
Marty - Rules, playfield layout, 2IC
S - Creative Director
C - Sound
G - Programming
Me - Mechanical and later most of Electrical

The plan was to release around 2022 with each team member getting $250 per machine sold. Obviously D would handle manufacturing. We met weekly over zoom and there was a lot of excitement around the title.
Progress on this (around June 2020)20200619_153254 (resized).jpg20200619_153254 (resized).jpgPinside_forum_7580210_0 (resized).pngPinside_forum_7580210_0 (resized).png There was to be a lot of toys, 4 flipper game. Very feature packed.

Around Nov 2020 there was a decision (I wasnt part of it) to switch to building classics machines as a way to bring in money quicker and that it would lead to the team being employed by Haggis earlier. At this point non of us were paid.
I was working madly (while full time employed elsewhere) to get a cabinet and playfield designed for Fathom.20210313_153520 (resized).jpg20210313_153520 (resized).jpgIMG_20210203_162830_052 (1) (resized).jpgIMG_20210203_162830_052 (1) (resized).jpg

Early 2021 - I remember talking to a friend who suggested I ask Damian about compensation. I was doing the bulk of the work at the moment compared with the other team members to get Fathom ready for an announcement, including fielding phone calls while on holiday and then jumping on my laptop to update CAD files. Damian got super defensive when I asked about getting any money to cover off all the work I had done up till this point. Said it was part of the process of making it into a successful business and that he was going to pay me at the same wage I was currently being paid (software dev).
Meeting with him left a super sour taste in my mouth and was definitely a red flag. I kinda ignored it though because I was enjoying making pinball stuff much more than my paid work at that time.
In a team meeting soon after he suggested that the team members would each get their own Fathom machine so that sorta quelled any doubts that I had at that time.

March 2021 - Had a bbq to celebrate the new bigger factory.20210508_123344 (resized).jpg20210508_123344 (resized).jpg

53
#9428 51 days ago

At The Factory

Tue 1 June 2021 - New Factory - The core team started full time at the new factory at Atlantic Drv

My role was meant to be design of new parts especially for Fathom and CAD/Electrical design (LED boards etc...). My salary ended up being $40k less than what was originally quoted.
But I started working on parts inventory and determining BOM for Fathom. A lot of just Factory type tasks had to be done.

T started late June as floor manager and came on as part of the core 'leadership' team with the intent that he would ensure the factory/line staff were doing what they were meant to
I think another 10 or more staff came on around July to start building machines, however...
Mezzanine and factory were still being fit out for probably a month. Things like screen printer, cable maker and other important big tools were also still arriving.
Along with waiting for parts orders and not having a documented process or instructions to work from the line staff were kinda twiddling their thumbs.
At this point we were meant to be getting out 50 Celts a month but we were yet to make a single one from the new factory.

I was fighting fires and problems with Celts. The ball trough and autoplunger did not work well. Unfortunately Dr John was playing beta tester for us and I think we sent him multiple versions of each.
I begged Damian to let me spend half a day or so to make a mini test bed that I could slot parts in that would then run 24/7 so we could have some kind of confidence. But he said there was no time for 'doing things properly' (my words)
At least a month or 2 (maybe more) had passed in the new factory and we still didn't have a single Celts finished. Damian let go about all except for 2 of the line workers as it was burning too much money.
He kept telling everyone we just need to get one out and wasn't interested in making it sustainable(i.e. doing things in batches). He was also micro managing everyone. The amount of parts we had to bin was staggering as he wouldn't check any of my drawings or allow us to get a single item made to verify its dimensions or how it functioned. Every order minimum was probably about 50x on the off chance that it worked and then we saved some time by not having to go back and order more (little did that help when we had to iterate on a design and throw those 50 out)

He also blamed anyone else that was nearby for any mistake that he or Georgia made and by the same token took the credit for anything that happened to be a success. One youtube video he made was of the star rollover that I designed and manufactured not mentioning me at all. IMG_20211029_093404 (1) (resized).jpgIMG_20211029_093404 (1) (resized).jpg

Oh, we also had a safety inspection as a requirement. I remember a bunch of safety things that Damian/Georgia were meant to action but that never happened.
Most of the core staff were avoiding him as much as possible for fear of being yelled at. I was a bit luckier than the others and sometimes managed to work a couple days a week from home because my surface pro 2 laptop couldnt handle the large Fusion files and the desktop machines for the office were still a work in progress.

Despite not being in my initial role description I picked up the Electrical work on Fathom. This was mainly designing simple LED pcbs and the optos for the drop targets. I remember at times having issues with the Fast boards or Multimorphic boards but I wasnt allowed to contact either Aaron or Gerry respectively because they might realise we werent as far along as what Damian wanted people to believe.

I think by October/November most of the core team were doing assembly line work to get Celts machines out the door. I was trying to slice away as much time as I could to iterate and refine parts for Fathom so that we could get a flipping playfield. We were forced to skip straight over this though and rather than testing individual components or groups of components we were working towards a single finished machine.

I'm not sure exactly when S left but it was possibly September/October. He had copped a lot of abuse and ended up walking away, leaving a a $10k+ spray booth he had effectively donated to the factory (another instance of Damian promising money or a machine he never intended to deliver)

Early December I gave my 1 week notice - traditionally it is 4 weeks in Australia but Damian wrote in 1 week thinking that he would be able to make it easier when he let people go. It felt good using that against him. He pleaded to stay on, go part time knowing that he had a big knowledge hole to fill. Fathom design was basically done though and I trained up one of the remaining line workers on how to develop the bend programs using the brake press.

This was the state of Fathom around December when I left. Largely done but still not flipping or in a cabinet (though the cabinet was finished). Note that this is the FIRST playfield and how to build them at scale had not been established.IMG_20211202_093654 (resized).jpgIMG_20211202_093654 (resized).jpg

Multiple playfield tops were cracked during assembly of Celts machines. Hence my warning earlier. Damian cracked multiple himself tightening down parts. He also set the laser cutter on fire when he left spare acrylic inside the machine at its home position.

After I left my stress level greatly reduced and I never regretted leaving. I didnt have a new job to go to at the time but my wife insisted that that didnt matter and I just had to get out of there.

T left early 2022 and G also left around mid 2022.

#9429 51 days ago
Quoted from lachied:

This is a rough timeline with some images of the events from my perspective...
The Lead Up
Damian and I met at a local pinball tournament. I had been doing my own custom machine for a while and we talked about Celts and other stuff. He seemed nice.
Oct 2019 -
Went out to his factory (small one at 1/49 Industrial Cct, Cranbourne West) - Pic1[quoted image]
He showed me the current state of Celts and I told him I could 3D model a better castle for him. (before)[quoted image] [quoted image] (after)
Late 2019 - May 2021 -> I made around 20 visits to the old factory (1+hr drive) plus a lot of work at home
Damian had very little knowledge of Fusion 360 so I ended up updating a bunch of the Celts models over that period.
Early 2020 a team formed to work on a War of the Worlds machine - Codename Alice
This team was...
Damian - Conman
Marty - Rules, playfield layout, 2IC
S - Creative Director
C - Sound
G - Programming
Me - Mechanical and later most of Electrical
The plan was to release around 2022 with each team member getting $250 per machine sold. Obviously D would handle manufacturing. We met weekly over zoom and there was a lot of excitement around the title.
Progress on this (around June 2020)[quoted image][quoted image] There was to be a lot of toys, 4 flipper game. Very feature packed.
Around Nov 2020 there was a decision (I wasnt part of it) to switch to building classics machines as a way to bring in money quicker and that it would lead to the team being employed by Haggis earlier. At this point non of us were paid.
I was working madly (while full time employed elsewhere) to get a cabinet and playfield designed for Fathom.[quoted image][quoted image]
Early 2021 - I remember talking to a friend who suggested I ask Damian about compensation. I was doing the bulk of the work at the moment compared with the other team members to get Fathom ready for an announcement, including fielding phone calls while on holiday and then jumping on my laptop to update CAD files. Damian got super defensive when I asked about getting any money to cover off all the work I had done up till this point. Said it was part of the process of making it into a successful business and that he was going to pay me at the same wage I was currently being paid (software dev).
Meeting with him left a super sour taste in my mouth and was definitely a red flag. I kinda ignored it though because I was enjoying making pinball stuff much more than my paid work at that time.
In a team meeting soon after he suggested that the team members would each get their own Fathom machine so that sorta quelled any doubts that I had at that time.
March 2021 - Had a bbq to celebrate the new bigger factory.[quoted image]

Beginning of the end. Overhead and time without production kills any company

#9430 51 days ago
Quoted from slghokie:

Feels like blueberryjohnson can apply all that deeproot legal sleuthing to Haggis/Hartsco the way this is playing out. The truth will come out eventually

Bleh. Don't feel like learning the Australian version of Pacer. And it looks like others have things well covered.

#9431 51 days ago

So was part of Damian no longer doing the vlog was because someone else was actually doing the work? I remember watching videos of him trying to CAD and design stuff like ball troughs, but I guess someone took over that part

19
#9432 51 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

So was part of Damian no longer doing the vlog was because someone else was actually doing the work? I remember watching videos of him trying to CAD and design stuff like ball troughs, but it sounds like someone else started doing most of that work.

Oh good point. I forgot about ball trough and auto launcher for Celts. They were a massive headache. I'll make sure to add something about them when I update that next one.
But to answer your question. Yes. I took over all the CAD work. The lack of vlogs was probably more centered around wanting to give the impression that things were further along than they actually were. Any videos would reveal the opposite of that.

#9433 51 days ago
Quoted from lachied:

Oh good point. I forgot about ball trough and auto launcher for Celts. They were a massive headache. I'll make sure to add something about them when I update that next one.
But to answer your question. Yes. I took over all the CAD work. The lack of vlogs was probably more centered around wanting to give the impression that things were further along than they actually were. Any videos would reveal the opposite of that.

Was there any merit to the rumours that the pre-orders of Centaur had opened up before they even had licensor approval?

#9434 51 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

couldn't arrange a Beer in a pub

Even if you shouted him….which would be expected.

Quoted from Stuieb84:

Was there any merit to the rumours that the pre-orders of Centaur had opened up before they even had licensor approval?

Pretty sure this wasn’t a rumour and Ballypinball confirmed this.

18
#9435 51 days ago

These backstage details…my god…there was never, ever a chance this would succeed.

Usually these ponzi scams start to fall apart when the team paychecks start bouncing. In this case nobody was ever even getting paid!

#9436 51 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

These backstage details…my god…there was never, ever a chance this would succeed.
Usually these ponzi scams start to fall apart when the team paychecks start bouncing. In this case nobody was ever even getting paid!

Bonus, overworked!!. Is Damien even worse than jpoop and blobert? At least any employee was paid, whilst ripping people off. Damien did both.

#9437 51 days ago
Quoted from Stuieb84:

Was there any merit to the rumours that the pre-orders of Centaur had opened up before they even had licensor approval?

I’m pretty sure Fathom sales were open close to 12 months before it was signed off by licensors.
I’ve been told that a working prototype wasn’t built until early 2022. Sales opened in April 2021 from memory.
Would make sense that Centaur was no different.

#9438 51 days ago

So they will give these licenses to anyone. Learned something here tonight. Would assume they would be a bit careful, do some due diligence on who they give a license too.

#9439 51 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Bonus, overworked!!. Is Damien even worse than jpoop and blobert? At least any employee was paid, whilst ripping people off. Damien did both.

Just to clarify we were getting paid from June 1 2021. That was when my contract officially started and we moved into the factory. As shown above there was a lot of work done before then to get something that could be videoed for the Fathom announcement

#9440 51 days ago

.

#9441 51 days ago
Quoted from lachied:

Just to clarify we were getting paid from June 1 2021. That was when my contract officially started and we moved into the factory. As shown above there was a lot of work done before then to get something that could be videoed for the Fathom announcement

Did you ever receive compensation for the work done prior to 1 June 2021?

#9442 51 days ago
Quoted from lachied:

Just to clarify we were getting paid from June 1 2021. That was when my contract officially started and we moved into the factory. As shown above there was a lot of work done before then to get something that could be videoed for the Fathom announcement

Is what I’ve been told about the Fathom in the launch promotion being a literal box of lights true and the first playable game not built until very late 21 or early 22?

#9443 51 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Bonus, overworked!!. Is Damien even worse than jpoop and blobert? At least any employee was paid, whilst ripping people off. Damien did both.

Jpop didn’t really pay anybody either.

So…good company to keep there haggis !

#9444 51 days ago
Quoted from Stuieb84:

Did you ever receive compensation for the work done prior to 1 June 2021?

Of course not. Haha

Quoted from Boof-Ed:

Is what I’ve been told about the Fathom in the launch promotion being a literal box of lights true and the first playable game not built until very late 21 or early 22?

Yeah, I've got a photo from early December just before I left which wasn't a playable playfield.
We skipped straight over a flipping prototype.

#9445 51 days ago
Quoted from Boof-Ed:Is what I’ve been told about the Fathom in the launch promotion being a literal box of lights true and the first playable game not built until very late 21 or early 22?

Box of lights gets em every time !!

#9446 51 days ago
Quoted from insight75:

So they will give these licenses to anyone. Learned something here tonight. Would assume they would be a bit careful, do some due diligence on who they give a license too.

It’s well established that QC isn’t exactly PPS’ forte; they cash the checks and issue the licenses and that’s it.

#9447 51 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Box of lights gets em every time !!

Good art and RGBs are catnip for pinball marks

#9448 51 days ago
Quoted from lachied:

We skipped straight over a flipping prototype.

Pffft, details.

#9449 51 days ago

I should say at this point that the amount of class displayed by former employees is commendable. I reached out during the WTF is going on phase of late 2022/ all of 2023 to find out what was happening behind the scenes and none of the former employees were publicly flaming Haggis though they had every reason.
Anyone that did a modicum of research could find that the original design team had parted ways. What wasn’t apparent was why because they were not actively and publicly trying to sink the company.

#9450 51 days ago

I have a mate quite well established in a "motorcycle club" that has lost a good bit of coin on a preorder. He said he would really love to have a cold beer with Damian and Marty. He seemed sincere too.

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