I believe Australia is one of the most expensive places in the world for design and manufacture…Add to that shipping costs to western consumers!?…Then compete in a price driven market? Good luck. It was an uphill battle from the start. (If you consider Mt Everest “a hill”).

An entrepreneur I follow offered some good advice.

It's important to identify when something is failing and if it can't be fixed, shut it down as quickly as possible to start over.

This was a *very predictable failure* and as someone already pointed out anyone daring to mention it was shouted down.

They seem like really good guys!

Assholes.

People saying that they didn't willfully screw customers over... there's your proof, guys. Regardless, the issue here was instead of going and getting an investor and giving up stake in their company, they pretended the investor would be the new Centaur buyers. They should have stopped operations with Fathom before "raising capital" by screwing more people over with Centaur deposits. How many Fathoms did they get out of that move anyways? Guys that paid in full on Fathoms in 2022 and 2023 still never received them.

I paid for 3 that I didn't get (as UK distributor). Lying bastards!!!

My local spot that has over 100 pins never got theirs.

There were so many red flags from early on but the Centaur early release was the final one IMO. Asking for final payments 6-12 months before actual production was a clear red flag from the start. Last years TPF debacle/jaunt, when they backflipped on making the Mermaid 2.0 code available to anyone who wanted to pay, just to sell a couple more games, was the clearest sign things were f*cked and the true colours of Haggis management came through.

3 in full outstanding or just deposits?

Pinball is hard, history is littered with thousands of failed pinball companies.

The farther you are from Chicago, the more difficult if not impossible it is.

Half way around the world and you decide to reinvent mechs instead of using off the shelf or proven hardware designs?

A very, very tall hill to climb at best and if you slip once..

The refrain of "never preorder a game" needs to get a LOT louder at this point. It's true of video games. It's true of board games. And it's pretty much true of pinball, between things like this and Stern always shipping games with incomplete code.

If I can't go to the distributor in town and have a machine that's already in their warehouse, I don't really want it.

IN Full

I made a sign to post on the building for the liquidators:

H - Homeless
A - Again
G - Games
G - Gone
I - In
S - Storage

Leases get amended all the time. They could have easily added more extension options down the road.

Think of the mentality of the bulk of the people around here. "If I don't show interest and order, then they'll go under!" We see this repeatedly even with Stern people making these statements. There is a hostage mentality left over from when pinball almost died. So many people are deathly afraid that no new pinball machines will be made that they lose all sense.

The other side of this is that kickstarting IS a thing and there are many success stories. However, in the pinball world and the costs of such items the mentality really needs to change that you get no deposit, no money until the games are shipping. There doesn't seem to be any recourse or accountability with companies that go under, they just take the money and run and everyone else is left holding the bag.

But you also have companies like CGC, Spooky, even PB where the same thing applies. A bunch of people had to take a leap of faith to even get it off the ground.

Another one Bites the Dust, RIP Haggis Pinball

So… this means they’re saving their own skin, leaving creditors and buyers to dangle in the wind??

Pitiful.

What bothers me the most is the total lack of transparency. Asking for game payments when they likely knew things were bad, and then going completely radio silent. Not answering emails.

No shame. SMH.

People are shocked by this?

@ballypinball, just wondering how much money you personally have lost to Haggis? I'm assuming it must have been substantial as you are often here telling people how wealthy you are so I don't think 10 or 20k would bother you much?

It worked for Leo.

EC272B27-3798-4C82-AE67-1ACFE79959E2 (resized).png

The true character of a man is revealed when things go wrong and how they respond cleaning up the mess.

Not good people.

Unfortunately that seems to be the modus. It’s not shocking, and history has proven that when all communications cease with customers and distros, shortly after the company disappears overnight.

He could’ve at least set up an “out of office” message in his Outlook.

No, go back and read my post replying to you

Edit- nvm I see now that you have me on ignore. Your loss I guess

Did anyone get any money back from that? I dont think so, they did get a picture of his back however.

Seriously

I think of it a little different

Homeless Again Gins Gone It Sucks , did marty drink haggis to death ? They where doing fine til he was hired

I knew this would be the outcome from the onset. Watched it all transpire and comes to its fruition. Sad but true. Maybe we will learn as a community from this, maybe not as history has repeated itself. Anyone promoting, defending or otherwise giving the illusion that Haggis would be successful was complicit as far as I am concerned. Damian is a thief, plain and simple.

Justice meted out, the Pinside way.

Not to mention the constant violent power struggles between warlords at Gastown, the Citadel, and the Bullet Farm. It's a miracle they managed to crank out 100 or so games under these conditions.

I think most sane people saw the writing on the wall a year ago when they went full Ponzi by announcing and taking money for an $11-17K Centaur Too that nobody wanted. I doubt by this point anybody is surprised.

Even the ride or die types like Gilligan were basically trolling us at this point, there's no way they actually believed Haggis was pulling out of the tailspin.

Lol you're giving these dudes way too much credit

I think we need a "Orbital Albert goes bannanas on Haggis" rant!

There has been too much heartache. Too much pain.

Just leave the 3d printer, the hammers, the leather jackets, and the broken promises and tears, and I spare you lives

Just walk away.

Guys... pinball or duct cleaning or car detailing.. they all follow a pretty familiar plan...

We are new
We have nice pictures
We need the help of the community
Buy our stuff

Take everyone's money.
Disappear


Maybe come back again with a new name and new pictures.

I feel terrible for everyone who lost money on this. Same thing happened to me two years ago with an Australian company for an arcade machine. I spent close to $5K paid via credit card, and after 6 months of delays I attempted to cancel the order as I could see the signs of looming failure. The charge was reversed, and all was fine. Until two minths later, and the credit card company said I needed to "wait for the merchandise." In the meantime, the company went dark and went bankrupt. The credit card company refused to credit me. The creditors posted the amount of assets, the amount of people who were submitting claims, and the fees of the creditors ... and I calculated my net payout would be under $10 (and probably far less). I gave up on that front, although I did contact Australian authorities as the man behind the whole thing made false statements to intentionally cheat people towards the end, but they basically told me it was just a civil matter. My final fight over the last full year was with Citibank (credit card). Long story short, I wound up getting a settlement of 50%, and of that roughly $2500 I paid my attorney 30% of that. But I finally got a check last month. I literally lost lots of sleep over the whole thing, as it was embarrasing and just wrong. Anyway, I know many of you will feel the same way, and just know it is not your fault and you will avoid getting in that situation in the future. And if you paid via credit card, you might have some path to get some funds back. Good luck to everyone, and remember: it is only pinball, not life or death.

The collapse of Haggis Pinball is heartbreaking.
and yes, absolutely disappointing for all parties caught up in this disaster.

It is sad to see/read so much hearsay in this thread.

Sure, understandable everyone that has skin in the game is pissed.
But to label Damien and carry on like you know all the circumstances and business operations of Haggis Pinball is unreasonable.

You guys have to realize the real story has not come out, perhaps never will.

I am sure that there was never any intention by Haggis to rip people off.

Australians are stand up people. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes that some may not realize.

Yes Australia does have extremely expensive manufacturing costs.

But boy we are a tenacious bunch who can be very proud and believe in high standards.

Anyway the point is the honesty and integrity was always there.

The product was fine, in fact superior to most.

My assumption is the business plan was let down with accounting and cost management.

There are massive tax problems here in Australia that have broken many many small businesses.

Some close friends of mine have been broken by our bullshit tax system.

I realize this is no excuse for the drop in communication.

and hope that a fair resolution for all is forthcoming.

Pretty sure when they emailed me multiple times in January asking for full payment for Centaur saying my game was about to be built, they knew good and well that they were lying. They needed that money to build backlogged fathoms. They didn't have centaur parts and my game was nowhere near being built. They also had to know there was a great chance no centaurs would ever be built. But somehow mine was about to be? So please explain how they were not intentionally trying to rip me off? The emails say send payment in full your game is going into production. Nothing but lies. I told them when it is in a box and ready to ship let me know and I'll pay for it then, I never heard another thing from Haggis other then the we are F'ed email a few weeks later.

They might have started with good intentions, but they certainly lost those somewhere along the way.

Holy shit. You should know that we offer great financing on bridges over here in America.

What exactly is being said that's hearsay?

I know at least 1 Australian that is not a stand up person. He was last seen loading a truck before the liquidators came to his warehouse. He was last heard from trying to collect money for pinball machines he had no ability to make

I don't get the Damian is Australian so he's an honorable mate nonsense. There are great people on every part of the globe. There are also crooks and criminals at every spot. It's not some negative on Australian people that Damian turned into a liar and a crook. The only things making Australians look bad are the ones defending Damian and his actions. It's baffling how tone deaf some are.

I am not here in defence for Haggis.

I will stand by my statement of hearsay.

No point arguing anything without facts.

Again, I hope there is opportunity for fair resolution.

An Australian criminal? shockedpickachu.png

Looks Like a Personal Guarantee to me

read the room, pal

Fact, I was asked for full payment of a centaur in January multiple times. They stated my game was going into production and was about to be built.

So am I lying or is Haggis? What exactly is the hearsay?

There's no resolution, all the money is gone, some of the distros might bet some pennies on the dollars at the end of this, anyone that paid directly to Haggis is screwed.

Ok first off, anyone generalizing a country full of people based on the actions of 1-2 jerks is also a jerk. We have a lot of jerks on this side of the hemisphere too but surely we are not all jerks. Same goes for AUS and everywhere else.

Second, lol on blaming the tax code. Taxes in America suck too. They’re a part of running any business. Can’t pay em? Don’t do business. I own a business. I complain and struggle like everyone else, but I’m surely not going to FUCK anyone because I can’t pay my bills. Haggis did a poor job of running their business. Maybe they had good intentions going in, but their ethics were piss poor at the end, this is crystal clear.

Third, your argument that they had the best quality? Tell that to my buddy over here that had the whole hardtop delaminated in transit, with the game ruined. He was also promised a full, new wired playfield, which now he will not get. So now his only option is to probably strip the field, pull the hardtop up and hope none of the graphic comes with it, spray some 3m bullshit under it and hope it sticks, and replace. Top QUALITY in this industry would follow playfield protocols used by guys like spooky, stern, or cgc. Haggis using a hardtop? Way off on the quality comment. 10,000$ loss.

So don’t give me the cry for Argentina bullshit when there are so many people out money and product from this. They knew they needed to find capital before they took deposits for centaur, before they even finished their obligation on fathom. That is fraud plain and simple.