Quoted from Mr68:Why would anybody announce abandoning a deposit when so much shame and ridicule has already been dished out by Pinside?
Self flagellation is cool
(Topic ID: 292168)
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Fathom (Classic Edition)
Haggis, 2021-
Fathom (Mermaid Edition)
Haggis, 2021
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Ambler, PA
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:I mean, you could say that your blind defense is... even worse. Yes, I know an exact order number that was paid for in advance and according to Haggis, they are shipping by order number as long as the person pays up front when requested (there could be a swap in order number if one person pays their invoice before the other if invoices are sent to multiple numbers and the latter number pays first). I know of order numbers that are much farther in number that were also paid in full that are sitting unfulfilled. Even if there are a few numbers that don't count (for whatever reason), there are still a significant amount of pre-pays out there. And by pre-pays, I mean machines PAID IN FULL as though the customer is buying a finished machine.
I admire your blind defense, but if we're being honest here Haggis is NOT TRANSPARENT and went from frequent updates to rare updates, to NO UPDATES as time passed. And that coincides with more payments being made in full in time. Not the best pattern, don't you think?
I want Haggis to succeed.. but in order to succeed, people need to receive their NIB paid for pins! At this rate, it will be 3 years for the rest of the Mermaid editions to get built and shipped... especially to the USA.
I posted in this thread for anyone willing to sell a deposit spot to send me a Pm.
In the last few weeks I have only heard from 2 people. One actually had a machine and wanted $12,500.
It was located in AUS. Another offered me a spot around #150 for a couple hundred over cost but they told me that it would be one of the last machines made.
I played Cointaker’s sample machine and really enjoyed it. I think deposit holders just need to be patient. Pinball is hard and it’s also 2022 which = Mfg/parts nightmare.
Quoted from Mr68:Why would anybody announce abandoning a deposit when so much shame and ridicule has already been dished out by Pinside?
Why would you abandon your deposit when you can sell it to someone else for as much or more than you paid for it?
Quoted from ultimategameroom:I posted in this thread for anyone willing to sell a deposit spot to send me a Pm.
In the last few weeks I have only heard from 2 people. One actually had a machine and wanted $12,500.
It was located in AUS. Another offered me a spot around #150 for a couple hundred over cost but they told me that it would be one of the last machines made.
I played Cointaker’s sample machine and really enjoyed it. I think deposit holders just need to be patient. Pinball is hard and it’s also 2022 which = Mfg/parts nightmare.
So did you get a spot?
Quoted from Dwboca:So did you get a spot?
Unfortunately No I didn’t buy the deposit spot. The seller said it would be one of the last machines in the run. It was a very fair asking price. I would have thought that they were built in order of the deposits. Maybe they requested a late build?
Quoted from ultimategameroom:Unfortunately No I didn’t buy the deposit spot. The seller said it would be one of the last machines in the run. It was a very fair asking price. I would have thought that they were built in order of the deposits. Maybe they requested a late build?
My Fathom Mermaid pre-order spot now officially listed for sale. As stated in my ad, I have been informed by Damian that my game "is towards the end of the build list" and expected to be built in Q2 2023.
UPDATE: Sale currently PENDING
Keysborough
Quoted from wrb1977:…As for Fathom, I’m not buying the reason that games aren’t shipping is due to parts and labor shortages. That would make sense if they were slowly trickling mermaids out the door, but just one??? I believe that this was basically a prototype that shipped out and the video of it boxed up was just another attempt to get those with deposits to pay their remaining balances. As I said in an earlier post, until I saw a steady stream of mermaids shipping they wouldn’t see another dime from me. But you do you. And if they are being affected by supply and labor shortages, how long can they stay afloat? I believe they are having financial difficulties and need some investors to step in…I mean how could they not??? They seem to be doing something special so if they are running out of working capital hopefully someone notices what they’ve accomplished so far and gives them life. Or maybe I’m wrong and all is well and a pile of them will ship out by June 1st…I sure hope so!!!
Included part of my last post from 6 months ago above.
I’m very sorry to see what’s been going on with those of you that have pre-orders on the Mermaids, it sucks as I’ve been there. My last post was 6 months ago and it seems basically very little has changed. Complete silence from Damian (yeah yeah he’s a nice guy) and games not making it to the US in any meaningful quantity is not good considering how much time has passed. Haggis timelines have become laughable at best…not even in the ballpark of what customers were told. The only positive is that Haggis has not dangled the next carrot (the next remake title) asking for more pre-order money to keep afloat. That’s good that more people won’t be sucked in to this mess but also a bad sign that possibly Damian knows Haggis is a sinking ship and why bother. At this point I don’t see how this financially succeeds without a tremendous amount of long term financial backing or Damian being independently wealthy. As said many times before with many of these start ups…the math just doesn’t work. As far as supply chain is concerned…every other company is still producing pins even if it’s been a struggle. I simply think Damian’s well is dry. Once again, like I said 6 months ago, maybe all is well and that boat is just about full and leaving the dock tomorrow! If so, why hasn’t this been communicated to his customers??? Not good at all…things definitely are looking grim for Haggis. Mermaid spots hitting the market is also not a good sign. 
Just got word that my game is on the line and will be completed end of this week. I almost sold my spot too. I'm glad nobody took me up on it. I was considering selling because I have a TBL and a Mermaid fully paid for. It just seemed so risky. Now with my game hopefully shipping out next week I feel a whole lot better. Nobody knows why Damian doesn't post updates. Maybe it's because no matter what he says, he gets too much negative feedback. I really am excited for my game. It will be replacing my Williams Diner. TBL will replace st:tng. My lineup will be pretty amazing. Baywatch, Rush Prem, GZ Prem, TBL, TZ, MM, SS, Mermaid, Big Ben (EM from my childhood). When my CC SE+ finally ships it will replace SS. I really like Baywatch... nuts huh?
Quoted from surfnrg:Just got word that my game is on the line and will be completed end of this week. I almost sold my spot too. I'm glad nobody took me up on it. I was considering selling because I have a TBL and a Mermaid fully paid for. It just seemed so risky. Now with my game hopefully shipping out next week I feel a whole lot better. Nobody knows why Damian doesn't post updates. Maybe it's because no matter what he says, he gets too much negative feedback. I really am excited for my game. It will be replacing my Williams Diner. TBL will replace st:tng. My lineup will be pretty amazing. Baywatch, Rush Prem, GZ Prem, TBL, TZ, MM, SS, Mermaid, Big Ben (EM from my childhood). When my CC SE+ finally ships it will replace SS. I really like Baywatch... nuts huh?
How long since full payment? I’m hoping they are getting faster as it will make everyone start to feel better about the situation. Mine was 23 weeks from full payment.
Finally heard my game is on its way to the US via DHL sea freight through Nitro along with 3 or 4 other Fathoms. Tracking showing they will arrive to nitro late March thus far. Happy they are finally moving. March would put me at roughly 10 months after payment was rendered for those keeping track 
It would have been closer to 6 months if it was shipping direct to me via air.
Quoted from surfnrg:Just got word that my game is on the line and will be completed end of this week. I almost sold my spot too. I'm glad nobody took me up on it. I was considering selling because I have a TBL and a Mermaid fully paid for. It just seemed so risky. Now with my game hopefully shipping out next week I feel a whole lot better. Nobody knows why Damian doesn't post updates. Maybe it's because no matter what he says, he gets too much negative feedback. I really am excited for my game. It will be replacing my Williams Diner. TBL will replace st:tng. My lineup will be pretty amazing. Baywatch, Rush Prem, GZ Prem, TBL, TZ, MM, SS, Mermaid, Big Ben (EM from my childhood). When my CC SE+ finally ships it will replace SS. I really like Baywatch... nuts huh?
Nuts? Not really, I think Baywatch is a great game. I think a lot B/W fans used to turn their nose up at it, for many years. Probably because the art is very...Baywatch. Guess what, it's supposed to be 
. The Hoff just stares at you while you play. Also, possibly the best coded ColorDMD out there. Anyway, totally amped to get my Mermaid!
Quoted from Vitty:Finally heard my game is on its way to the US via DHL sea freight through Nitro along with 3 or 4 other Fathoms. Tracking showing they will arrive to nitro late March thus far. Happy they are finally moving. March would put me at roughly 10 months after payment was rendered for those keeping track It would have been closer to 6 months if it was shipping direct to me via air.
Good news and good luck! First boat shipment I think we've heard, and good that they were able to do a smaller batch vs a full or half container.
Air freight for me being in LA was $1600. But it would cost me $600 to ship it from Sparks, NV, so the additional is really only $1000 for me. Why not, can't wait for my game. Should be here in 2 weeks. Will take some video.
Quoted from oldskool1969:I have to agree with all the above statements , it would be nice if they continued with all stated promises.
But at the end of the day, shit happens.
I think we all know that a combination of Covid and all its long felt ramifications ie. staff, supply, lockdowns etc. and also spoilt shit heads on public forums had a lot to do with these current issues.
I wish I had my mermaid now, I have been told next year, which I understand.
A hell of a lot of people have reached out to not only me but others asking what I and others think and the answer is always the same.
Haggis idea was and started off AWESOME in its initial selling points BUT they have suffered issues which made the goal posts change. Believe me, they won't be happy about the world at present either.
I wish they were more transparent and forthright BUT it is a small BOUTIQUE Pinball Company and do what's best to stay afloat and build peoples machines. They are building/ delivering pinball machines.
Maybe we could all do with a Christmas video keeping us up to date on their business and our machines?
My faith is strong. Go Haggis. Celts is AWESOME
Remember that are not even close to Stern, Spooky, AP, CGC etc. but a very small business with a great product which can only grow.
Quoted from surfnrg:Air freight for me being in LA was $1600. But it would cost me $600 to ship it from Sparks, NV, so the additional is really only $1000 for me. Why not, can't wait for my game. Should be here in 2 weeks. Will take some video.
From Sparks is definitely not $600 more like 250 to 300.
Only NAVL would be $600
what's your machine and order number? series ticket holder?
Quoted from surfnrg:Air freight for me being in LA was $1600. But it would cost me $600 to ship it from Sparks, NV, so the additional is really only $1000 for me. Why not, can't wait for my game. Should be here in 2 weeks. Will take some video.
Quoted from surfnrg:I really like Baywatch... nuts huh?
You live in Hermosa, it's natural to want a beach-themed game. Fathom just adds to it, I'm glad you're keeping it.
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:and this...
Pinside won't let me post the clown face emoji, so you'll have to use your imagination.
I had a Celts , Game looked great, but was extremely homebrewish to me. Alot of very cheap parts and believe it or not, the shooter lane had a piece of painted cardboard!!! Unbelievable. Game also had an extremely shallow code and audio issues in certain modes(static). The powder coating was phenomenal and a well built laminated cabinet. But $30,000 ????? Pinside has turned into the most inflated pinball pricing on the planet. Everyone thinks their games are worth 2x-3x. I look at Pinside Market for a good laugh, and Wow did it deliver with this ad!!!
Quoted from MJK-911:I had a Celts , Game looked great, but was extremely homebrewish to me. Alot of very cheap parts and believe it or not, the shooter lane had a piece of painted cardboard!!! Unbelievable. Game also had an extremely shallow code and audio issues in certain modes(static). The powder coating was phenomenal and a well built laminated cabinet. But $30,000 ????? Pinside has turned into the most inflated pinball pricing on the planet. Everyone thinks their games are worth 2x-3x. I look at Pinside Market for a good laugh, and Wow did it deliver with this ad!!!
NOTHING surprises me in this hobby. Most if not all games are overpriced, and super rare/hard to get games will always draw a premium. I am thinking that $20K for an in-hand Haggis Fathom is an easy sell in the US market. Just like any other game, having one on-hand is GOLD at this juncture.
Quoted from Cobray:NOTHING surprises me in this hobby. Most if not all games are overpriced, and super rare/hard to get games will always draw a premium. I am thinking that $20K for an in-hand Haggis Fathom is an easy sell in the US market. Just like any other game, having one on-hand is GOLD at this juncture.
Especially if people feel they're gonna go under(Haggis) and they have a super limited game.
Quoted from Cobray:NOTHING surprises me in this hobby. Most if not all games are overpriced, and super rare/hard to get games will always draw a premium. I am thinking that $20K for an in-hand Haggis Fathom is an easy sell in the US market. Just like any other game, having one on-hand is GOLD at this juncture.
I have a Fathom Mermaid in my collection. If someone would pay me 20k I'd sell it. PM me if you have interest.
Quoted from Roostking:Especially if people feel they're gonna go under(Haggis) and they have a super limited game.
I don't think many people feel this way - it's just that there are a limited number here in the US so far.
Quoted from Pmaino:I have a Fathom Mermaid in my collection. If someone would pay me 20k I'd sell it. PM me if you have interest.
Testing this theory out.
Not to interrupt the talk of selling games for stacks of money, but is there anywhere people are discussing the new rules?
I thought it was a shame they only did them for the Mermaids, and I get it was to make them more limited, but I just wonder how good they actually are. Is there a breakdown anywhere of the changes?
Quoted from Aurich:Not to interrupt the talk of selling games for stacks of money, but is there anywhere people are discussing the new rules?
I thought it was a shame they only did them for the Mermaids, and I get it was to make them more limited, but I just wonder how good they actually are. Is there a breakdown anywhere of the changes?
There is an owners thread somewhere.
Quoted from cooked71:There is an owners thread somewhere.
So there is, thanks!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/haggis-fathom-owners-club-dive-in
I just watched some Fathom 2.0 gameplay, my first exposure to it.
Wow, what a pretty game, big fan of the lightshow. The new rules seem pretty cool, nice to have more options to play.
Is there by any chance a setting to turn off the instruction callouts? Like "Shoot the one two three targets to start Lagoon Multiball" etc?
Pity all that work went into something limited with an artificial cap, but I guess that's pinball these days, what can you do.
Quoted from Aurich:Pity all that work went into something limited with an artificial cap, but I guess that's pinball these days, what can you do.
Rob Zombie, Alice Cooper, etc etc it's not anything new.
Hamilton, ON
Quoted from Aurich:I just watched some Fathom 2.0 gameplay, my first exposure to it.
Wow, what a pretty game, big fan of the lightshow. The new rules seem pretty cool, nice to have more options to play.
Is there by any chance a setting to turn off the instruction callouts? Like "Shoot the one two three targets to start Lagoon Multiball" etc?
Pity all that work went into something limited with an artificial cap, but I guess that's pinball these days, what can you do.
I'm still half expecting another "Limited" run of these just under a different name, like the "Siren Edition". A different colorway that gets the new code out to more people and makes them more money. Jersey Jack has done that with all of their different "Limited" runs of WOZ, Ruby Red, Emerald, Flying Monkey... why can't Haggis do the same?
Quoted from roar:I'm still half expecting another "Limited" run of these just under a different name, like the "Siren Edition". A different colorway that gets the new code out to more people and makes them more money. Jersey Jack has done that with all of their different "Limited" runs of WOZ, Ruby Red, Emerald, Flying Monkey... why can't Haggis do the same?
Doubtful - having it exclusive to the Mermaid editions was part of the sales pitch to force people to upgrade. Not to mention I'm sure they are highly motivated to finish the Fathom run so they can move on to the next remake.
Quoted from roar:I'm still half expecting another "Limited" run of these just under a different name, like the "Siren Edition". A different colorway that gets the new code out to more people and makes them more money. Jersey Jack has done that with all of their different "Limited" runs of WOZ, Ruby Red, Emerald, Flying Monkey... why can't Haggis do the same?
They can clearly do whatever they want, their company. Keep it limited, do more (and risk pissing off owners), whatever. I bet they don't run it again, seems not worth the backlash.
I'm just expressing that it looks neat, and like a lot of work was put into it, and artificially limiting it feels like a shame. I would prefer more people got a chance to play it and be exposed to how great these classic games are, even if they're used to more modern features. It's a great best-of-both-worlds kind of situation.
Comparing it to Rob Zombie is pointless, Spooky limited that game because it's all they could actually build. And every title they make increases because their ability to manufacture games has been growing.
I suspect the limiting trick here wasn't really necessary and that they would have sold just as many Fathom remakes, if not more, if the new code was just a general feature. I could be mistaken.
Quoted from Damonator:Doubtful - having it exclusive to the Mermaid editions was part of the sales pitch to force people to upgrade.
I just suspect that "brand new Fathom" was enough in and of itself to sell, and the chrome etc would have gotten LE buyers. And "every game has RGB and new optional code" feels like a better sales pitch to me than the Mermaid stuff.
I personally think pinball is too addicted to the FOMO model. At least with say the Stern LE/Premium you can get the same gameplay minus some packaging. Spooky does it even better, their various options are all cosmetic, no gameplay is lost on even the entry level version.
Ultimately it leads to less people playing cool games, which feels like the best point to support. And when you see greedy people trying to flip their game for $30k they're just profiteering off it all, the company doesn't see any of that money to make more games, develop more code etc.
Anyways, can't change what happened.
Quoted from roar:I'm still half expecting another "Limited" run of these just under a different name, like the "Siren Edition". A different colorway that gets the new code out to more people and makes them more money. Jersey Jack has done that with all of their different "Limited" runs of WOZ, Ruby Red, Emerald, Flying Monkey... why can't Haggis do the same?
I think they will be too busy building the next game to worry about a re-run. It would take a major expansion on their part to build 2 different games at the same time & I certainly don't see that happening in the next few years.
It's my bet that we will find out what the 2nd game is in the first half of 2023.
Quoted from Aurich:...
I'm just expressing that it looks neat, and like a lot of work was put into it, and artificially limiting it feels like a shame. ...
Quoted from Aurich:...
I personally think pinball is too addicted to the FOMO model. ... And when you see greedy people trying to flip their game for $30k they're just profiteering off it all ...
That's CRAZY talk man!
Quoted from Screwloose:I think they will be too busy building the next game to worry about a re-run. It would take a major expansion on their part to build 2 different games at the same time & I certainly don't see that happening in the next few years.
It's my bet that we will find out what the 2nd game is in the first half of 2023.
I think if we see the next title announced and deposits asked for before at least half (maybe more) of the fathoms are in hands there may be a little loss of confidence from the consumer.
I’d love to see production speeding up a little before I would be dropping any more money on the next game.
Quoted from Screwloose:It's my bet that we will find out what the 2nd game is in the first half of 2023.
Have they said if they’re sticking with this kind of remake model?
If it’s “another classic Bally” like Fathom but with upgrades the obvious choice for hype and sales would be Centaur. An RGB Centaur with new rules? Make it and don't limit the number, you'll sell more than the Mermaids imo.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:That's CRAZY talk man!
Code to the people! 
Got this back from the framers today
Forgot just how awesome it looks.
Been getting a bit of time in on the machine lately to explore the 2.0 ruleset.
There is a lot there, and I’m learning where the big money is slowly, but I’m not a good enough player yet to consistently get decent scores.
The fathom inlanes are brutal but I’m getting very decent at my nudging.
I’m running code 0.76 which has some known errors that are getting resolved in the next revision
5EA9DDEF-269D-4D8A-91D9-3B323D5885D7 (resized).jpegQuoted from surfnrg:Just got word that mine has been boxed up today and ready to ship. Upgraded to DHL express. Should be flipping in 2022!
[quoted image][quoted image]
Photos of Damian hard at work. It's nice to see him on the factory floor so to speak. But that's Damian. I believe he would build them all himself if he had to.
Quoted from Aurich:Have they said if they’re sticking with this kind of remake model?
If it’s “another classic Bally” like Fathom but with upgrades the obvious choice for hype and sales would be Centaur. An RGB Centaur with new rules? Make it and don't limit the number, you'll sell more than the Mermaids imo.
Series tickets holders have bought in on the promise of 5 classic Bally remakes. So we can certainly expect a machine of that era. There was much speculation on what those games would be early in the thread. Centaur was very high the list to be either 2nd or third remake.
Quoted from Boof-Ed:I think if we see the next title announced and deposits asked for before at least half (maybe more) of the fathoms are in hands there may be a little loss of confidence from the consumer.
I’d love to see production speeding up a little before I would be dropping any more money on the next game.
Where and when do I send my full payment for my Centaur Platinum edition?
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