I thought it would be best to separate out this Elwin game from the Gomez design

>Mr. Keith Elwin has designed a fourth model of James Bond and it's what we call the 60th-anniversary edition. His game covers all of the actors that have played the role and all of the films so I believe it's 25 films. His game spans the 25 films and his game is very different, I think it's limited to 500 units and it's a single-level playfield like old school. It's got reels in the back box. Yes, you heard me right, it's got reels in the back box. Programmed by Mark Penacho who goes back to Williams Electronics days.

>The art on his game is all 25 films are represented with their film posters on the sides of the game, on the playfield every actor that's played Bond, Connery, Pierce Brosnan, George Lazenby, of course, Daniel Craig, Roger Moore, they’re all represented on the playfield. Then there's elements he's got villains from each of the Bonds and he's got game features from each of the Bonds. His gadgets and his weapons and stuff work differently than mine but he's basically picked a representative device from each.

It's officially "call for pricing"

Also known details: in line drop targets, drop targets banks, 4 opto spinners (one like Odd Job's hat), saucers, newton ball

I would have been very happy to see what Elwin would have changed about a classic Stern like a Star Gazer, Quick Silver, Dragon Fist, etc

But an all new game? Be still my beating heart...Just wish I could afford one!

Hopefully a few end up on location near me. I love single level and hope Stern tries out more of them. The Beatles is easily among my most favorite Spike 2 games.

So what are the odds you can get all 4 spinners going at once. Has to be doable right?

I'd love to see something crazy like an inlane spinner you can shatz

Agreed, I wish it had a Beatles like production run. I can find some golds out on location, but I've only see the platinum in private homes and never seen a diamond in person. And those were probably cheaper to buy! I can't imagine many will put this out on location besides a small handful of dedicated operators.

If I was a distributor, I wouldn't blame one for holding a few of these back. These will likely be the crown jewel in an Elwin fan collection down the line.

Where as I'm the opposite

I love a single level game where all the shots are dangerous, you're constantly on the verge of losing the ball, and there aren't a bunch of safe shots to slowly grind out points. I'd rather have an intense 5 minute game than a 30 minute slog of shoot the flashing ramp.

I wonder what some of The Beatles diamonds went for. Sounded like a few went for 25k early, and then you rarely heard another peep about them. I know a lot of places were asking around 12-15k for the platinum early on. I knew someone who felt like they got a platinum for a bargain at 10.5k about a year after release.

That and they made nearly 2,000 Beatles.

Too bad they didn't feel the need to make a premium version. But I know a few wealthy collectors have been begging for the chance to buy an ultra exclusive, BOM be damned pin. So here you go fellas!

Shows strong demand for this style of game and maybe Stern tries out more single levels?

Idk, I'm guessing they'll have all of them. It could just be movie poster art repurposed though. I was pretty surprised at how much was on the Gomez Bond

I wonder if there will be any easter eggs to Sega Goldeneye for that particular movie tie in.

https://sternpinball.com/game/james-bond-007/

Stern’s James Bond 007 60th Anniversary Limited Edition pinball machines will immerse players in the history of 007. Limited to 500 machines globally, the highly collectible 60th Anniversary Limited Edition offers players a retro-inspired playfield packed with exciting mechanical action. Control the chaos from Oddjob’s kinetic spinning disc hat, survive tactical precision shots against 10 drop targets, escape SPECTRE’s evil henchmen navigating pinballs through 4 fast-flowing optical spinners, learn assignments through an in-playfield LCD screen, and rack up high scores on classic-style score reels.

“James Bond is as timeless as pinball. Partnering with EON Productions/Danjaq, MGM Studios and Aston Martin, we created a pinball adventure capturing the suspense, action, and humor from this beloved film series.” said Gary Stern, Chairman and CEO. “Get connected today and become a legend.”

Games configured for North America operate on 60 cycle electricity only.

These games will not operate in countries with 50 cycle electricity (including but not limited to Europe, UK, Australia).

edit nevermind

Stern making a lot of money is good for the hobby because Stern is the backbone of the industry. A healthy Stern is a healthy industry. A healthy industry makes better products

Don't get me wrong. I'm nearly priced out of the NIB hobby too. I can swing a pro or premium, but this is too much for me. It is what it is though.

I don't think it's amazing for the consumer, but it's a luxury toy. I'm not going to get too outraged about a niche manufacturer enjoying the good times while they last.

Yeah our only complaints are it's expensive (granted we've seen nothing lol)

And by the sound of it, it is an expensive game with multiple drop target banks, opto spinners (these things are costly), some custom molded toys, etc..

So even if it wasn't a SLE, it'd probably be a 10k premium

Oh weird. Never noticed before.

I don't know if it would really need all players to have their own reels? Multiplayer is a minor annoyance on Whoa Nellie/Pabst/Primus because you only have the one dinky screen in the apron to read the scores. This will have a playfield LCD so that should be (hopefully) much easier to read.

I'm kinda curious how well the reels will keep up when 4 opto spinners are ripping and roaring

>Yes. The art on his game is all 25 films are represented with their film posters on the sides of the game, on the playfield every actor that's played Bond, Connery, Pierce Brosnan, George Lazenby, of course, Daniel Craig, Roger Moore, they’re all represented on the playfield. Then there's elements he's got villains from each of the Bonds and he's got game features from each of the Bonds. His gadgets and his weapons and stuff work differently than mine but he's basically picked a representative device from each.

Sounds like you get a movie poster version of everyone at the very least.

On Whoa Nellie et al, sometimes the reels will just look odd for a moment while they catch up to what the actual score is. When they fall far behind they will make a quick skip to catch back up. (And your digital score display in the apron is up to date like you would expect)

Would be nice with all those opto spinners to include a mechanical noise maker. Ain't nothing like an EM spinner rip sound

Has there ever been a game with 4 spinners? I can think of a few with 3, but not 4.

edit: Alvin G Football, which is a head to head. So this may be the first non-head-to-head pinball with 4 spinners

What if you shatzed an inlane spinner into an outlane spinner… the possibilities!

So much leak

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I'm almost positive he was the only one talking about it, well before anyone else. The hype thread reflected his rumors, not the other way.

It's cool the topper and shooter are included, but no art blades? Come on...

I dig the translite. The cabinet art...ehhh.

I’ll just wait another two weeks then speculate on a gate…

He said that about the playfield screen

People use single and street level interchangeably. Street level means cheap single level playfield.

It’s more like a loaded classic Bally than a cheap, low maintenance Gottlieb

It's a render, but I think it's a render of a near final design

You can tell it's a render because of the crummy shadows and lack of detail on things like the start button

Most Stern mockups I've ever seen use another existing playfield in the mock up, maybe a bit blurred out. This one is clear and unique. It seems like a lot of effort for the playfield portion of the render, so I'm still thinking that is legit and from the project's main 3D model of the game.

Maybe the temporary render was given to the 007 site as a place holder till final approvals and samples are built and photographed? Accidentally provided the concept photo with the other games?

Maybe at one point they thought they'd do it like The Beatles, then decided to go even higher market and put in actual score reels?

We'll see more (and probably before we're supposed to)

I think people want it to not sell out and show the market for this sort of thing, but it's going to.

It's an ultra rare and exclusive Elwin pin...not just some gussied up premium. Huge bragging rights for the whales out there to fight over. And the fact it's a pretty popular theme that appeals to Bond fans across multiple generations? There will always be people looking for this game down the line.

Granted the sales were barely affected, but yeah... You're not stupid. The launch went terribly lol. It makes Stern look bad to other business partners and licensors.

Sending your employees across the ocean to not reveal a game is a bit of a clusterfuck. The whole thing about it being about the queen's passing seems like pure PR spin. But that is speculation...

Easily hundreds at this point

Go try to buy a JJP POTC, some of the rare LEs like Tron, some of the actual rare games like King Kong, etc...

The longer you're in the hobby, the more you realize how many deep pockets are in the hobby

Some of use are plebs who can only afford $9k toys and not $30k toys

Personally, I'm here for the jokes about lube

I'd also prefer LCD reels (not like I'm getting one though)

If they did it like Whoa Nellie et al, I'd imagine they would need to make it more than 4 digit scoring too. All these opto spinners? You'd probably roll the 4 digit scoring multiple times in a great game. Though maybe they can do some over the top lights? I think Gomez mentioned the backglass would have the traditional lightboxes for things like "game over"

I hope Project Pinball can get one to raffle off

I can hold out hope that they like the design enough to retheme it to some other games like Whoa Nellie and the Spider-Man Home variants

Course it may be hard depending on just how integrated this game is with the theme... quick what's another property Odd Job's hat would work in? Charlie Chaplin? Laurel and Hardy? Clockwork Orange?

It was sarcasm

Although sometimes I do think about what Stern will eventually retheme the dino head on the Jack Danger JP game... (Godzilla is the easy answer. Bonus: the jump ramp doubles as a broken bridge)

Oh yeah, I see it now

I wonder if in the final version it's going into a Beatles cabinet, but instead of the typical LCD screen it will be a glass panel with the score reels and other traditional backglass inserts

Speak for yourself, I've never seen a BBB. But I have played plenty of other rare games like Joust, Dragon Fist, and Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom...

I know I'll see this SLE. But not as much as I would want to. Sad panda

Wow, people really think a lot of pinball designer salaries and royalties these days

I probably get paid more designing much simpler things. Also have you met pinball fans? I deal with less difficult people as a government-official/human-complaint-box.

yeah, but does Keith wanna walk out that door?

A few Stern employees seem like they took massive paycuts to come work for Stern. Software guys who could make a killing elsewhere (maybe some already did and don't mind the low pay now because they enjoy their work). Idk what Elwin used to do...

The video game industry is pretty well known for exploiting people who love video games and want to work in that industry. Keeps their wages far below comparable engineers and artists.

I'm more pessimistic and would guess the bonus to Keith, and his team, would be you get to buy the game at cost and then they could flip it on their own time.

That's where I played them! I imagine you're considering one of these? Wish I didn't move away recently because youre the type of op who'd put something like this out for all to enjoy.

People gotta stop comparing it to Elvira which had a premium model, limited edition, signature edition, and 40th edition

That game was available at a wide variety of price points

All Stern future game production was pushed back several months this year. Think of all the design teams at Stern (Elwin, Borg, Danger, Gomez, Eddy). All their timelines got substantially pushed back and then they had extra time to work on something like this.

The quality of Stern software and game design is a pretty huge difference even if they don’t have full RGB and a techno soundtrack.

TNA is a super fun game. Basic. But super fun.

We’ll see soon enough though.

Also with Elvira, sure she is a license...a pretty niche license outside the pinball world and especially outside of USA/CAN. James Bond? It has been a global franchise for decades and will continue for decades.

Maybe all the Connery Bonds that will get made will take away a little of the luster, but this is the only version with a Bond for all ages.

I do like this, although I think the SPECTRE logo needs to go from the armor in this much more subtle version.

Speaking of... With the busy artwork, the SPECTRE logo works when included off by the side to all the Bond movie names/posters. I don't think it's a coincidence to put it by the flipper buttons where the game, ie world under glass, is controlled from.

Did you have to overpay for something good to get a bundle deal or something? Because that seems like a distributor needlessly selling at a loss.

Ice, I'm honestly surprised you're not more bullish on the prospects of a game with a popular license, designed by the most popular current designer, seemingly a much higher BOM than a typical game, and actually very limited in the grand scheme of things

500 sounds pretty limited to me at least. They're selling a thousand LEs on day one of a cornerstone, and that's with them also building thousands of premiums for a lot less money. Those premiums really drag down the value of the LEs since normal people like myself know it's just silly cosmetic differences.

I wonder how many Supremes Stern built (100-200?). I think that's a better measuring stick. And pinheads will actually want this game unlike Supreme.

Yeah but pinball isn't as competitive of an industry. Seems like designers did pretty well for themselves back in the day when there were multiple major manufacturers competing for talent. These days, there's not a lot of positions and a few companies arguably already have too many designers considering their release cadence.

If you wanna be a pinball designer and actually see your games come out with any regularity, there's really only one company to work for...

It's unfortunate how people sleep on The Beatles. It's fucking loaded. It has 4 flippers, 3 drop target banks, 2 opto spinners, a magnet, a spinning magnet, then the typical slings/pops/etc. But people think ramps cost more than drop target banks or something...

Or they just don't like how brutally hard a game can be without ramps safely returning the ball to them all the time

Yeah, but that's a different game and only covers a fraction of the Bond franchise

Of course if it didn't exist, then this game would go for an even more obscene amount of money

I don't know if the distinction really matters. Stern is going to sell all 500 direct to their distributors. Then the distributors price them as they see fit.

In both situations Stern presells them all and baked in their profit upfront. So they don't care too much beyond trying to make sure the distributors don't get stuck with something they can't sell for a nice profit

Well we will find out soon enough how much the Elwin name/brand is worth...

If I was a distributor I'd try to stash one or two away. No different than when some sit on LEs/toppers and wait for someone who just has to have it. If Elwin keeps pumping out the hits, his richest fans will need the crown jewel in their collection...

Yeah well if you want Elvira you can spend $9k to get one (if Stern ever bothered to build them)

I don't know why that is such a hard concept for some to grasp. This is a very unique and limited production. No alternate versions, no reskins, etc..

The things I've seen this hobby throw money at...and you guys are skeptical of it being 25k and up? Like maybe there are some deals in the first few weeks when the games all hit the market at the same time, but hold back a little and they will start to rise up.

It's like you guys choose to ignore the existence of games like JJP POTC...

In the past, I've heard a fully assembled cabinet and associated parts was around $1,000. That was a few years ago before wood became stupid expensive...

There are a ton of common parts all games use too. They all have at least two playfield node boards (the home game variants only have one), ball trough, dual plunger, two flippers, and two slings. That's a few hundred bucks right there.

Well yeah, but node boards probably still cost maybe $100 or so for Stern. Then another $35-50 for each of the standard six mechs all games include.

Some of those costs might be offset by reusing code aspects from the Gomez and putting them in the Elwin version. Example, I saw an extra ball animation in the Gomez Bond that would be perfectly adequate for reuse on the Elwin version.

If you look at Star Wars Home and Jurassic Park Home you'll notice how they remix and reuse some animations and sounds from the cornerstone, and then supplemented it with new stuff.

Because I like pinball?

At some point I wonder if some of the true deep pockets in the hobby are acting skeptical because they don’t want the initial asking price to be too crazy.

There will be a sweet spot of almost all of these hitting the market at once at a high, dipping down a bit after a few months, then a period of going back up in value when there are extremely few up for sale.

They’re going after hardcore Bond fans with all the movies in one, the wealthy type who want to show off an expensive toy, and the rich pinnerds who want the super exclusive Elwin game.

I believe this was coded by Mark Penacho. Naegele has been busy making Godzilla a modern coding masterpiece. (And then probably moved on to preproduction for Elwin’s actual next cornerstone.)

But like a lot of things pinball, it’s a huge team with collaborative effort.

Pinball isn’t like baseball cards. Trading card companies have to tread very carefully while they literally print money/commodities for nerds to speculate over.

500 pinball machines is rare. Stop comparing it to EHOH 40th. No shit you lost money, you could have gotten basically the same game for $9k.

I once heard an ex Williams guy say the minimal viable number of games to produce was around 1000 units. Enough to recover development costs and make a little money. So 500 units sold through at twice the typical cost?

Then the distributors can sell to some “whales” day one, give a “great deal” to a few loyal customers, and sit on the rest to see what the demand is like down the line

The price will be high, then quickly drop, then slowly rise back up

Even if the game is just “ok” there will be Elwin stans who gotta have it down the line.

In the render some people noticed inline drops. Would it be the first in a Stern since Metallica?

If they’re making 500 inline drop mechs there is hopefully a cornerstone in the near future with inline drops.

Inline drops rule. That’s all.

Saw this in the other hype thread. Don't recognize it. Could be the 60th edition. Suppose Waison is on support code.

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Gomez also mentioned there would be multiple sound packages, including an 80s style one

I'm guessing this game is trying to match what pinball would look like during that specific Bond era. So digital chimes to match the score reels as a sound package? Maybe an alphanumeric style graphics on the LCD to match the 80s music?

I thought he also said it was standard pinball parts on the playfield. So drops, pops, spinners, etc. Just used in interesting ways

Remember how Keith brought back the classic Stern ball locking/staging mech from Flight 2000 for AIQ?

What if he took Oddjob’s Hat and combined it with everyone’s other favorite classic Stern: the spinning bumper from Orbitor 1

I'd guess emededed in the center of the playfield. It's not a big screen. Apron wouldn't be a bad spot either (instead of the standard rule card), but I think they said it was in the playfield

I'm also assuming it'll be in The Beatles cabinet. It could be in the Whoa Nellie et al cabinet, but I doubt there is enough vertical clearance for toys like Oddjob's hat.

Just another blurry leak of the layout a page or two back. Not much to go off of

Should see more next week though.

Gomez mentioned there being multiple sound packages, including an 80s style. My guess is the sound effects try to sound appropriate to the era Bond you are playing. So digital chimes for Connery and Lazenby, arcade synth packaging for Moore and Dalton, and some generic Bond tunes from the cornerstone for Brosnan and Craig

You're still comparing it to games with cheaper base models though

I got a raise at work. If the spinner sounds are right and I'm enough beers deep, I could make a dumb celebratory decision. But gotta see it...

A single level has no ramps (or very minor ones like Seawitch). That's almost all pinball pre early 80s. They can be pretty loaded with shots and mechs (like an Eight Ball Deluxe). A street level was a Gottlieb style of game that made single level games for super cheap in the early 90s.

Single level = no ramps
Street level = single level with low BOM

I brainfarted while thinking of The Beatles

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I understand why most wouldn't, but it certainly is a type of ramp. How is it not? It ramps the ball up an elevation. It even feeds a flipper if you plunge it right.

It may function as a one way gate, but it's a small ramp. Fireball's skillshot ramp is another weird gray zone of "it's a ramp, but not the kind you typically think of"

I guess defining a "ramp" to mean that it has to ramp up to at least one ball height elevation change is a good starting spot. Iron Maiden's center jump ramp is basically an extreme version of this little type of "skip" ramp (I can't think of a better name for that type of Beatles ramp)

As an aside, mentioning flattening Fireball made me think of flattening Flash Gordon. I don't think it does anything that really requires it to be split level.

Also what is the Phoenix shot that goes up on rails *pulls hair*

Please release a game so we don't have to have nerdy semantic conversations or I'll go bald

I was tempted in a pro till the local spot said they're getting one. Also this is the 60th Hype Thread!

Imagine the howling, gnashing of teeth, and furious clacking of keyboards if this had slings that fired together

It's a Keith game where he got to go drunk with opto spinners and drops. It's going to shoot amazing. Whether or not the code is interesting...we'll see...

The Beatles rules are simple but very good for what that game is

They’re not building them till December, so maybe? Get people at maximum hype and deliver it before they can think too hard about it.

Just a bizarre year for Stern from an outside perspective.

I just don’t get why people think The Beatles should cost less

It has more stuff in it than some other premiums.

I know. It’s just nuts that they think a vacuum formed ramp, like a dollar worth of plastic, is expensive.

The value perception of ramps is off the charts.

Ramps in a fan layout and detailed art. Stern knows what is the best ROI in the BOM for owners these days…

Pinside in general: we want XYZ
Pinball companies: here you go
Pinside: no not like that

Apply it to original themes, price conscious products, high end products, whatever…

Yeah, it’s a highly special and unique feature that designers and manufacturers only have about 40 years of experience with. It takes weeks of meticulous design to draw a three dimensional curve in Solidworks.

And they only make a few thousand of each ramp, which drags up the tooling and design cost up to maybe $5/unit in addition to the $1 worth of plastic. Include the cost of a switch or two, and maybe a flasher lamp and dome. Can’t forget the twenty-five cents worth of screws and ramp flap at the entrance either. Expensive stuff!

Didn’t JoeK brag about the license being $1m? So a little over $500 per unit for a nearly 2000 unit run

Comparatively Roger Sharpe has mentioned in interviews that an average is well under $100 per unit http://pavlovpinball.com/pinball-licencing-101-how-much-why-and-harry-potter/

So yeah. It’s not that hard to make a decent estimate and comparison of the Beatles BOM to other pros and premiums

If you come up thinking it’s comparable to a pro, you’re just working backwards from your own foregone conclusion. It was a premium BOM with a slight extra cost for the license and JoeK’s taste of the pie.

Why we are still litigating this, among some pinsiders that I don’t think are stupid (though maybe too fond of arguing for the sport of it), is beyond me.

“Tweak on an existing design”

Bruh… they had to redraw the whole thing in CAD. So what they had a jumpstart on a layout concept? They basically did every other aspect of the game from scratch like a normal game

It’s not like when they redo Spiderman Home or Whoa Nellie. Throw on some new art, replace some sounds, put in the same basic software.

Although I will say the software development of Beatles was maybe a bit cheaper compared to most titles since there’s only a handful of modes and scoring features.

Borg is the one constantly tweaking existing designs he made within the past several years…

Eh, it only took him like twenty minutes to design the game with standard off the shelf parts (or at least that’s the way some think about stuff like this)

I’m interested if it’s only-kinda-stupidly-priced and not offensively-stupid-priced

Which is what Stern is doing because their profitability, presently, is almost entirely dictated by the factory production output.

Software as a service with recurrent fees are coming sooner than later... (which was another area Mueller was exploring)

How do you make a million dollars in pinball? Start with two billion...

At this point, I'll be surprised if they show it before the end of December. They got Gomez Bonds to build and sell.

I think they hold back till they're basically ready to ship.

I wish it was more like The Beatles. Make 1,500 or whatever at a typical premium price. Then maybe 60 limited editions and 7 super limited editions.

That or it just gives the impression this is all an after thought game to keep designers/teams busy. Which maybe it is?

Like for $8k Beatles Gold is a good time. Not a lot of software, but a tough layout that makes good use of what's there. (And bonus, they later added the option to play OG Seawitch rules which disables the magnets and spinners and such - so it's two games in one)

But the idea of paying 25k for that sort of game? Yeah no.

And I feel like I'm the exact market for this sort of game? If it was under 10k, I'd be all over it. I love single level playfields

I agree with you to a large extent. So many modern Sterns play so easily and for so long, there are a lot of titles I have a hard time getting "hyped" for

I do like Elvira, because the rules, toys, and presentation keep me engaged. But something like Stranger Things is a soulless grind to me. I don't think ST is a bad game, it just doesn't do anything for me because it's the same typical layout, few toys, and a lot of "shoot the flashing light" modes that have few interesting gameplay mechanics.

I like Godzilla has more interesting stuff going on, although you gotta get through the boring stuff (your first tier 1 mode for example) to get to the more interesting gameplay modes like Terror of Mechagodzilla

The distributors who will be stuck with these will care...

I used to do local tech stuff for a particular large distributor, including setting up games and general overviews of ownership. I've personally seen someone get bit by the bug and then drop nearly 100k for an instant collection within a few months. A mix of new Sterns, premiums only of course, and then some over priced used games that selected because they were in the Pinside Top 100. Plus various mods, accessories, and of course toppers.

Shit adds up quick if you can afford it

If they did a Bond Girls edition it would sell out faster than this edition

After that, let's argue about how Stern should show gameplay at the reveal of this Bond. Then begrudgingly agree Stern doesn't have to because the people who buy this sort of game don't give a fuck

Then after we all see the playfield, we can circle back to the eternal debate about how expensive the unobtanium plastic for ramps costs Stern.

TBH I think this is more likely. They were showing off Galactic Tank Force art in September. The game is launching soonish

60th is a smaller off shoot of the Gomez Bond. So that sorta makes sense to call it twig if the other is stick?

This is the week boys, I can feel it

And if it's not this week, then maybe next week. I can feel it!

(I really think they're holding off till all the Bond LEs are built and mostly sold)

Next week is the week! Or not!

Has there ever been a reveal on a Friday? It's usually a Monday or Tuesday

Granted this unit probably doesn't need the same sort of press release/marketing plan of a typical cornerstone where they try to coordinate the reveal with multiple media outlets.

It probably has already sold through to distributors?

If only this was ready for a certain 60th anniversary party full of rich drunk Bond fanatics and international press people..

If you want a NIB Beatles Gold, they are still out there

I'm guessing they show it off at CES in Vegas, first weekend of January. Maybe a teaser before then?

On my winter break, I was frozen in my home, the airlines cancelled our tickets to visit family during Christmas, and my wife had to pick up shifts at the hospital (including the 25th). So I watched drunk men yell at each other online. I put on a funny Santa hat to make it feel more festive.

60th at CES is my current stab in the dark