Except it’s actual scarcity. Stern can literally not keep up with demand. Suppliers can’t keep up and to build and staff a new line in this economic environment would be difficult. Much easier, and more profitable, to raise prices until demand matches your capacity. Don’t see too many signs of demand dropping yet. Who knows when a less desirable title like Venom is released.

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There’s no way they can effectively utilize assets from 25 films on a single level game with a tiny on pf lcd screen. Plus the guy on code is known for late 80’s/early 90’s game code. He isn’t really known for deep lcd era theme integration.

As docquest said, expect simple but solid code. And 25 films a will be scattered around plastics, cabinet, playfield art.

No it’s the guy that did Fish Tales and whirlwind I think. Completely out of left field.

Edit: sorry, hurricane. Mark Penacho

https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/mark-penacho

Going to be interesting. Full credit to stern for going all in on retro. I like most of the games he’s worked on - haven’t really played Hurricane. Very simple. I’m assuming he and Keith will work together on the code.

Have you considered getting professional help Ice?

I know, unfortunate reality - can't have them all. You know it's getting serious when IMDN and AIQ don't make the chop.

What a sh*tshow this launch has been.

So the whole Christie’s Bond auction has already passed?

I'm assuming they'll be like Woah Nellie ie. Fake mechanical.

image-69 (resized).jpg

Agreed - even better if they put 4 in. Would be near impossible to have old style mechanical anyway.

Not only code that Insiders can access, but code that only 500 owners of the Sle can access on the regular cornerstone game. As if it’s not enough that Keiths SLE is limited to 500, parts of the unlimited game are also limited to those 500 owners. Why?!?!?!?? Ridiculous idea.

That’s what I love about his games, he’s not afraid to take ideas from another designers and combine them to make something new. His games absolutely have a unique and Elwin feel but he’s not too proud to borrow elements if they work and feel good to shoot. He’s played so much pinball, and at an elite level, there would be an extensive library in his head.

If I’m being honest, I’m more interested in this than the regular Bond, but I really don’t think I can justify the price.

Agree. Every release there’s the argument “this is not for us collectors - it’s for the super fans of XXXXX theme that just want a game for the gameroom”. They never materialise.

And yep, 500 is a lot of games at stupid pricing. Remember when they increased B66 SLE from 30 to 80 (??) and everyone lost their minds?

Only unique thing here is that there will be literally only 500 of this game - no unlimited premium like b66 or Gold like Beatles. I’d want that in writing from Stern if I was going to pay the rumoured Bond SLE price.

You’ve also got to wonder how much effort will go into code on this. Only 500 games, presold. No Lyman. Not much incentive to go above and beyond.

Pretty sure the original number was 30 b66 SLE’s for the Stern 30th anniversary. But demand was so high (ie they had soooo many video applications) they just upped it to a random 80 - probably a mix of think we can sell and still keep the super exclusivity.

500 Bond Sle is still super exclusive because it’s the only version of the game. I’m assuming they did a bit of a ring around to some distributors to see what they thought they could sell. If the stories of Elvira 40 are true, distributors may go a little lighter on the price this time? Who knows. Our distributor didn’t go the doctor on Elvira SLE - just sold them for his normal margin.

That’s right. Funny in itself. 30 was a relevant number. 50 was a relevant number. Let’s add them together so it means nothing.

No, Jaws was code for Jurassic Park.
Rush was code named Finn.

Don’t know what either Bond is yet.

Was a shame pinball bros moved away from that for final production games. Thought it was one of the best features of the game.

What’s the outlet game that used one……a nautical themed game from Spain or somewhere?

Such a shame that the only 2 single level "retro" games from Stern so far have been stupidly priced "collector" efforts.

There should be a market for such games at Pro (or less) pricing.

Thats my point. I didn't specifically say drop targets or expensive mechs, nor expensive licences. Just a cheaper single level, retro inspired game.

Beatles might be cheaper now, but it wasn't originally. When it was launched it was sold from LE tier upwards with a stupid cash grab at the top tier. This Bond SLE will be the same but even more limited.

Just think there would be a market for a well designed fun shooting single level retro game at a reasonable price. Doesn't need 10 drop targets and 7 opto spinners and an unobtanium licence from Kapow.

Jesus, all so touchy. I know not to criticise Stern in Levi's company, but now he has a posse working for him as well?

Ok, then not cheaper than a Stern Pro. How about the same as a Stern pro.

It is. Let's have one from Stern.

Drop targets are not cheap, but they are off the shelf in most cases. Unlike vacuum formed or wire ramps which need a-lot of design and prototyping and then need to be custom made.

Do you guys honestly think Stern couldn't make a single level game with a 3-drop target bank, 2 spinners, a bunch of standups and kickout saucer for the price of a Stern pro? So basically a Stern pro (ie starwars and DP) without the ramps.

Just saying make something like above, but without the top tier license paywall.

Just looking for something different from Stern I guess. I know newbs are still besotted by the Stern 2 ramp, 3pop layouts, but gets a bit boring after your 20th. Just like the idea of a single level retro layout with Stern snappiness and speed. Beatles is a great layout just doesnt need to be at LE pricing.

Have to admit Gomez' Bond is a bit refreshing though.

My point is I love the idea of this Bond SLE, more than the Gomez one, but no way I'm going to pay the stupid price. But it didnt have to have a stupid price - that was done by choice. Cant we have something similar, unlimited and at normal pricing for once?

Haven’t seen that.

Drop target banks are so expensive….
06D9B807-D33D-46E3-8E39-7C48A0AA524B (resized).png

And ramps are so cheap, particularly the ones made out of plastic and not angel pubes….
7B343705-8BBB-46E8-AE4B-7F1C6FD29703 (resized).png

True. And the ramp still needs all the flashers, switches/optos, art, decals, cables, air ball covers, entry posts, protectors, hex posts to support it. And it needs to be controlled. And it’s a one off custom design that needs prototyping etc etc.

Probably we should be comparing to this…

ACBC1B0E-2459-4C18-8D58-AF49456DF642 (resized).png

I know right…301C6507-5390-40D0-84F6-A4BA2D12BC5D (resized).png

And imagine how cheap they could make those retail stock drop target banks in the 1000’s that could also be used in any number of future games.

Danesi re-mixing the Bond theme song all weekend?

Same here. They were just a business trying to survive like any business would. Likely if investors didn’t turn up, they would have disappeared. I seriously doubt Gary was being altruistic.

LOL. This is going to be fun to watch.

If rumours of pricing are correct Stern are making significantly more net profit on this. Let’s say 4 - 5 times that of an LE. So that’s equivalent to making 2000-2500 Bond SLE’s. When Stern are already struggling to keep up with the demand/production capacity, it makes sense to make 500 extremely profitable games.

It sucks for us “regular” collectors/players, but this is not the People’s Republic of Pinball.

If this rumored new factory adds production capacity then they go back to the old model.

I think they’ll sell them. There’s one version of this game and 500 worldwide and Elwin and Bond. You could buy one Ice, but I think you’ve set yourself an arbitrary moral (ie. this is getting ridiculous) limit. There’s enough deep pockets out there now that don’t have that limit.

Is this 100% ?

There’s plenty of code names that don’t make much sense. BKSOR - Paris? Deadpool - Guy? They’re just in house dev team references so they can discuss a game without leaks. If they’re too obvious it kind of defeats the purpose. Having said that, GG admitted that sometimes they’re even too obscure for the team to remember. He did say that even the obscure ones have some connection.

Actually from what I’m told it’s not even as obvious as that and more of an “insider” joke. And I’m pretty sure they don’t look so deeply into the theme. You could be right with Deadpool but again, I’m not sure they go that deep.

Yep - wasn’t aware he’s spoken about it at shows. Funny story.

Is this a guess?

lol. Lets face it - all pinball parts are cheap. But as they say, a pinball machine is worth more than the sum of its parts.

He’s confused - doesn’t know his LE from his SLE.

Word of the day.

Agree - not only is it unlikely they’ve paid for full assets for every Bond film and then limited it to 500 games, but even if they did, there’s no Lyman to massage it into a masterpiece.

I heard that if Iceman buys both Bond games, all pops in both games fire together from one common node board.

Realistically, how can any game look like it’s worth $25k after reveal. Nothing in the reveal can change that. Even with Elwin designing and we found out Franchi was on art, how much more amazing can the layout be than any other single level game?

Literally the only thing driving that kind of value is rarity and FOMO and we already know that.

I can’t think of one thing that would change that. Maybe if we suddenly found out on launch day that Lyman had coded one last masterpiece to rival B66.

https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/whoa-nellie-big-juicy-melons-stern

Didn’t realise he said that.

Even so, say it’s got new reels, a new way of implementing an on pf screen, and an incredible topper, what could possibly make it worth almost double Bond LE that we dont already know?

Likewise, how bad could it possibly be on launch that you would suddenly say it was not worth $25k?

You’re either in or out at this point. I don’t see how reveal will change anything.

Not whining, just a mark of respect.

I was posting based on the $25k quoted earlier. So assuming it’s $25k what’s going to change your mind at reveal? We know it’s Elwin and we know it’s single level. Both huge ticks. We know it’s based on all Bond movies. Huge tick. Supply demand - 500 only. Huge FOMO tick. We’ve heard the art is posters as per the render. Meh.

What else is there? Code? If normal Bond is anything to go on, we won’t know the status of that for 12 months.

Yeh, going to be interesting. I’m thinking we get 30-ish down here. That’s allot at AUD$30-40k. Stupid money really. But there’s no Premium or Pro, so 30 only. Mind you, there’s probably only 30-ish Beatles down here, and they’re not getting AUD$30-40 for those regardless of which colour armour.

There’s heaps of Elvira’s out there - 40th or not.

Agreed. But only marginally more collectible since you can still get the same game relatively easily in a couple of other versions.

I was replying to the guy who thought the value of his 40th might go up simply because of the (rumoured) price of Bond 60th. Bond 60th won’t be available in any other version - just the 500 SLE’s or whatever they call it. Hard to find a connection between his Elvira 40th and Bond Sle.

Seems really strange especially with Elwin and such a huge Licence. Woah Nellie, Primus etc I can understand- niche themes and niche game design. But Elwin on Bond with all Bond movies! Here’s hoping it eventually comes in other flavours.

Plus the guy on code, Mark Penacho, isn’t really known for deep code. Fish Tales, Eatpm, Rollergames.

Someone mentioned it in an interview- Gomez? Guessing it will just be managed through Insider Connect.

Looking more at this Mike Penacho guy, seems like he’s been working at stern for almost 2 years already. Looks like he might have been employed to help with IC implementation. After Fish Tales he worked on video games including Mortal Kombat and NBA Jam. He’s got a bit of form.

Actually very curious to see what he comes up with. Nice to see some new code blood.

https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2021/03/07/mark-penacho-joins-stern-pinball/

That’s not true - it’s available for sale in Australia. Same power.

2D8425AD-3B9F-49DF-BA91-4B732D7C8FB5 (resized).jpeg

The only surprise for me is it isn’t $29,999. I’m kind of disappointed it wasn’t so we could see some real outrage.

Also a little surprised it looks uglier than the digital mock-ups. The mechanical score reel with a plastic surround in place of the lcd is laughable.

But as expected it looks like pure Elwin fun squeezed on a single level. Lots of kinetic satisfaction.

4 reels cut into the artwork as per normal would have been cool. But then you’d have to spend money redesigning the backbox.

Or, you could have just used the whole Woah Nellie cab.

On the fence also pinballaddicted .

Well, they missed $100k by Christmas by 10 days.

Looks like a great $20000 pinball machine.

LOL. Got to love a good Pinside rage quit.

It actually looked slightly better in the 3d renders.

There is absolutely nothing high end collectible about that complete package.

I mean really.....?
0d22d43f4c2ad3e2d3395f1396d78f7ef9d1b0fb (resized).jpeg

Yeh, but there is also nothing aesthetic about a Supreme brick. There was at least some aesthetic to Supreme pinball.

Despite how this thing looks, I bet it is hugely fun to play.

For me it's 100% the price now. I look at the layout and have monetary amnesia thinking what a freakin' fun game it looks - how cool would it be in my collection. Then remember it's AUD$30-35K. Now that we know it's not a stunning high end collectible and "all the assets" means movie posters and Insider Connected badges, it just comes down to a fun layout and good theme. Fun layouts and good themes are great, but for AUD$30-35k I can literally buy 5 fun layouts with equally good themes.

Sell any 2 of those and you'll have change leftover after buying Bond SLE.

Remember Gary himself was policing the CES tent for the Stranger Things launch, telling people to not to take video. It's a Stern thing lol. Afraid of the interwebs.

Seriously, it's likely just licensor issues - common theme with this property it seems. I'm happy we have one manufacturer large enough to tackle these A grade licenses, but what a f*n nightmare they must be to deal with.

I just hope CGC's Pulp Fiction doesn't get too nerfed. If it's true it's a Raw Thrills/CGC colab, I can only dream that Sharpe senior was involved in the licensor negotiations.

It's ridiculous to show a game at a public event like CES and then not expect anyone to post videos online - licensor issues or not. I really hope the text on the screen is a place holder. Looks like in Aurichs screen shot they've gone to alot of work to replicate the dots of a DMD??? We'll find out eventually.

The more I think about it, the more I think it was Pinside that created most of the unrealistic hype over this game. We took the little snippets of knowledge we had and pieced together the ultimate pinball fantasy.

I'm honestly jealous you guys have justified buying this. It would be awesome having this in your collection. As long as you're happy with it, who cares.

Layout looks like alot of fun. My 2 cents from the amateur CES video play:

- the spinning hat front and centre looked mildly annoying, though makes hitting those "easy" front on drops a little more challenging. Very similar to AIQ spinning disc in that sense.
- The one way return to the shooter lane seemed to happen fairly regularly and my be a little annoying.
- figure 8 shot very satisfying - do we think it can be shot in reverse (up that side lane?)
- Does the plunge always end up in the pops, or is that a controllable gate that lets it flow through to the PF?
- Looks like 2 saucers that could be used to stage balls for MB - nice.

Both Batman SLE and LE came with topper. Was in a normal branded Stern branded cardboard topper box packaged separately to the game.

Too true. One of the human race's most successful traits is the ability to forget things that we don't want to remember, even changing our recollection of past events to "protect" ourselves, effectively changing history. Life would be excrutiating if we remembered absolutely every detail of our lives. Much better to revise the past, be happy and move on.

Maybe it's a different one. This one does look designed for this game.

I think that definitley falls in the category of....

Never heard of a Ribbon shot. Maybe that’s what Gomez was referring to - he’d seen a figure 8 but not a ribbon shot.

What I don’t get is that anyone is surprised by the reaction in this thread. Was always going to be this way.

I’ve just read 3 pages of complaints about Pinsides reaction to this game.

Did you sell the game? That’s a steep discount so early, should have gone quickly.

Definitely plenty going on “mech” wise. No way it is home pin level.

All 3 of those games based on that retro cab are gorgeous. So much love went into them. Even PABST looks like a passion project.

Yeh, that was definitely a cynical move on Stern's part. Not a good way to maintain goodwill in your brand.

You new here?

When do we think we will get some decent gameplay footage?

No more from CES? Nothing more from CES at all?

robin will become richer than Elon Musk!!!

It's not actual hate, just a bunch of people trying to shout louder than the other people shouting in the room.

Until Keiths next cornerstone.

and pull out the can of mace.

Didn't realise Beatles had 4 !!! flippers.

Personally couldn’t listen to old Beatles on repeat.

Finally!!!

Nice to see we’ve moved on to raffle ticket pricing overnight.

Going to have to buy one of those Project Pinball tickets one day. This would have been a good one. I wonder what happens with the region lock if I win? Wonder if Stern would be charitable enough to change it for me?

First Elwin game with “only” 2 flippers, obviously less side to side shots and most of the game in the top 3rd of the pf. Seems a little less flowy than his other 3. The middle to right is mostly dead end shots - drops, captive ball, inline drops and just the right orbit. Less combo options than usual for Elwin?

As you do.

Do game designers actually use these before moving to white woods? Would seem like an obvious thing to do.

I think that left “reverse” ribbon shot doesn’t loop around at all, just feeds the lock saucer. Would explain the green lock light at the bottom of the left lane. And if you look at the top of the guide rail on that side shot, it angles to the saucer.

It’s really not a typical Elwin flow game at all. You’ve got one loop on the rhs to middle and middle to rhs and the one way ribbon shot. Rest are all “dead end” shots.

Would have been cool if the reverse ribbon shot had a small diverter at the end of that side lane that either fed the saucer or fed the loop.

No one cared. Was such a tiny run, and clearly for the Supreme collector market. Difference with B60th was that we all loved the idea of a new single level Elwin game and were therefore pissed we couldn’t afford it.

I think because bm66 there were multiple versions at different price points and it wasn’t limited (the layout wasn’t). With this game it’s only 500 total, ever (assuming they don’t re-use the layout), and it’s super expensive.

Lol. I think Stern need to give up on this fake collectibility crap and just concentrate on making great pinball machines.