No, because nobody takes a $50 burger personally. They just don’t order it and move in with their life.

Pinball super fans, however, are insane, and view pinball companies as their family members, or worse, as their friends, and view prices or games they don’t like as a personal betrayal.

It’s only getting weirder as time goes on.

Totally wrong. Restaurants are no different and social media will crucify as much as pinball super fans do, if you had a 50 dollar burger! Ask how I know

Probably why the whole "lifestyle brand" was junked. Stern knew they needed to be more of a business and less of some faux "community".

I would like to formally applaud the negativity of this thread. When the game came out I was on the fence but did consider buying it at 20k, in part due to FOMO. I’m not a ‘flipper’ but I like to buy games, have fun for 1-2 years, and sell them. I don’t mind losing $1-2k when I do even. The tsunami of negativity helped convince me I would lose much more than that if I were to sell the game in the future. You negative bastards saved me thousands of dollars. Time for me to donate to pinside.

yet, I could buy one of those for $3400 shipped to my door.

I really don’t get most of the complaints here. Yes it’s a high price game but most LE’s lately are resold within weeks of launch for a few thousand above msrp at minimum. This may be no different after launch with scalping but Stern seems to be capitalizing on that resale value before the scalpers have a chance to take it for themselves this time. It’s inevitable that would be the eventual outcome when stern sees people reselling their games weeks after launch for $2- 5k more. Not to mention it’s a very limited batch with what looks to be a fun playfield (though yes very barebones and home edition feel). I’m not mad about it, if I was a bond fan the premium edition looks awesome and I would be happier with that anyway, this is for the hardcore collectors and I personally like that they’re doing some limited run stuff like this and that recent NFT retheme pin. What do you think that one cost them to purchase being a 1?

It’s funny how the “outrage” for the price of the LE jumping dramatically has completely stop and in some ways accepted.
Well done Stern. Smart marketing.

God speed

They say exclusives include anti-reflection play field glass and shaker motor too.

Both can be bought separately for other games as well. It is not as deceptive as one may think.

Stern has ruined the magic. I remember when threads were about exciting new layouts, trying to figure out what a toy does, and comparing it to other machines. Not it's ALL ABOUT THE PRICE.

Who has made it all about the price? STERN.

.

My groceries cost way more than they did last year as well but I’m not blaming my supermarket.

Funny. Respectfully, This thread has had the exact opposite effect on me.
What really created traction for me was listening to the Stern Insider podcast interview of Elwin and Panacho.
This combination of experience and skill has possibly created a brilliant gem. It’s worth listening to imo.
Multiple multiballs and 2 “wizard modes” really intrigued me and from their discussion it seems more than likely a one off.
Also it’s worth watching an Elwin interview on YouTube 8 years ago where Keith has become the #1 world ranked player,
Interesting to hear his influences and how,IMO, he he got to where he is now and is in his prime. Seems like a really down to earth person that has a true passion for the hobby.
Price is wrong.
Artworkmeh.
But I’m big fan of both modern and old Ballys.
Just an opinion though.

This is a very similiar reason why I was really attracted to Haggis Fathom.
Classic layout with modern code including modes, rgb lighting, additional multiballs and a wizard mode .
Just an amazing twist on a single level classic.

Pull up your favorite podcast app, I use Apple's, and search for "Keith Elwin". You'll find 8-10 interviews easy, and he's a great listen. Very chill, smart guy, and happy to give insights into his design process. You'll probably walk away with a greater appreciation for what he does.

There are a few weirdos in this thread who are hating on spinners of all things, but aside from them and the "hurr hurr it's a home level game because it doesn't have ramps" crowd I don't think anyone is really taking issue with what Elwin did.

Ridiculous comparison. It's people like you that defend Stern and their pricing that have gotten us here.

I'd add..."No Audio/Video Bond assets" (pretty big one considering the 60th anniversary license). Like you, I'm a fan of the 70's-80's style ballys.

I see you have a crazy/large collection...have you owned Beatles? I had it and thought the Gold version was worth every penny and was a great player. Artwork was also pretty cool and the overall package (armor, side art, etc.) all comes together nicely. Paid $7,500 NIB and remember everyone bitching and moaning about the price. Never made sense to me, since it's clearly outfitted like a Premium.

I’m actually blaming the reseller market. Stern sees people are making money weeks after launching every single time. Why wouldn’t they eventually start charging more? The price of goods has gone up across the board for every single thing from necessities to luxury goods pinball is no different. Does it suck? Absolutely.

Buyers always blame sellers, but buyers are the ones that set pricing.

That’s why I’m not buying one

I believe speak with your wallet is always the best course. For those that have the money and want this pin the cost of a few thousand over an LE would be negligible and that’s why they do it. You’re right, the market dictates and stern is capitalizing.

Well yeah, no Bond video assets is crazy. The Beatles had video assets. And to say "Exclusive 007 Topper" on a video titled "James Bond 007 60th Anniversary limited Edition Game Features" - boy does that suck

I really don't know how that can be misinterpreted - EXCLUSIVE TOPPER on their "Game Features"

I do wish this was a positive thread but Stern keeps the bad PR up each day it seems. I mentioned this earlier, but articles with Gomez interviewed a while back mentioned it would have video assets. Gomez never corrected that. It is really scummy. And I like Gomez, he can be really open and honest (Like how he said we could see a Goldfinger Edition day one). But this 60th stuff is really... really scummy

The topper is a kick in the nuts and the Union Jack shooter?.. wow it’s like they knocked this out during a lunch break. It does look fun as hell to shoot tho

Iron Maiden shooter with new sticker.

Nope.......foodies ( I'm not one) pay absolute stupid, insane, astronomically high prices for specialty dining " created" by " renowned food artisans, then crucified, shut down, etc. In the aftermath.

Ive witnessed some of it ( " you're paying $ 1200.00 to eat where/ what?!).

Last I checked....zero resale on food Ive eaten...

No video/ audio assets? Wtf does it say that? So they put a premium sound system in to play nothing? I call serious bullshit speculation there...think this game will have audio references/ track snipets out the ass.

Screen in the PF...a GOOD thing...who knows what retro stuff they put in along with all sorts of direction that I can actually see, since Im staring at the damn playfield.

Time to ramp this shit down....seriously...same thing being said hundreds of times...

We should be past this phase...next official shitstorm should start after the games get in peoples hands, correct?

This is not just Stern...they just happen to be the largest, most legit players currently

( apologies Levi....condensing some responses in one post)

This..

Bingo

Yes I own that game. Must have forgot to add that to my collection. Ultimately Stern made a much improved Seawitch.

No video assets:yes I’m not a fan.
A single level game with flow literally has no place for video content if you want a fast playing game with few interruptions which Elwin also discusses in the podcast. Personally I wish there was no screen in the playfield. I don’t need “assignments”. That’s half the fun, learning all the rules and strategy on my own.

I’m solely interested in the code and design. This isn’t an art piece or investment to me.
I want to play the hell out of it with my friends.
I just wish they used a different price point so everyone can play.

Just add flyer-gate to the list of f-ups for this game’s launch. Should be one of the memorable for stubbed toes and general fuckery

And here we are months later and the cornerstone edition is still basically a demo.

Nothing to see here… move along…

(And gimme your 20k!)

Exactly, having a screen on the PF is very far from old school and I just don't see the utility. I have an LCD on my AC/DC that plays live concert video of the song being played and it's great. A screen on the PF that "tells me what to do" is very odd.

It happened with Zeppelin before anyone ever played it. It was DOA especially when compared with all the toys in GnR releasing same time. LZ is honestly one of the best shooters I’ve played from Stern recently and that’s not just because I own one. Highly underrated pin.

Looking at this short trailer for bond 60 I think this will be freaking awesome to play (it’s Elwin mannnn) and I think people are discounting it based on price and “lame artwork” lack of toys etc. same arguments I saw with LZ (I personally like the art package if I was a bond fan it’s the entire history!). The figure 8 and spinners and who doesn’t love in line drop targets? It’s old school / new school and looks fast. I like pinball for the gameplay / code. Art, theme, audio etc are always secondary compared to the fun of actually playing for me. I guess I’m just not focusing on those other things I’m interested in playing it.

Have you looked into that, you might be surprised!!!

If you let hype thread negativity keep you from buying games, you may never buy another....saving yourself tens of thousands of dollars ...... this game is not an insta-flip ....

Like Aurich said, nobody is really bashing the layout, its just everything else Keith had no control that is wrong with this pin is the issue.

Hope you're very, very wrong about that, lol...

In truth, the LE just looks like a typical LE......Premium w additional bling for thousands more...

Dig the retro vibe, modern approach they are doing w the 60th. I like it alot better as it has nothing in common w the other three models...taking a different road.

Idk....I like it, Im getting one, and probably getting redundant in my speak too.

Will slow down until I get the game in hand....

Yea, most likely once the initial shock dies off, and people actually see the pin(If we are blessed with rich friends ha) attitudes will change. Ultimately its the play that counts(Duh!) and I dont think there is any doubt its going to be a fast and fun pin.

Looking forward to some unboxings!!

I'm confused about the complaints. Can someone explain? I don't make much money, yet I bought both the LE and the 60th? I've been a James Bond fan forever. I'm not crazy about Bond or Stern. I could probably sell my LE to my boss at any point, so that makes that purchase easier. The 60th was a gamble in a few ways. Firstly, I went on the website and refreshed the page at the end of the countdown. Placed in cart and checked out. Easy, considering that's how I tried and failed to do the same with the LE a few months earlier. As soon as I placed the LE in cart it said out of stock. I thought if this happened with the 60th, then no big deal it wasn't meant to be. I wouldn't go looking for it if that happened. So the other gambles are obviously, maybe it's a fun game, maybe it becomes valuable and sought after. We'll see. I get it in just a few short weeks. I'm serious about wanting to know why the price is such a big deal. Just buy a game that costs less. Hope all is well with everyone out there. I'll do my best to stay positive and enjoy life. Good luck on y'all doing the same.

the hype threads are shitshows. full of morons who have no intention of buying the game but want to say a million reasons why not. or you have the other half who are trying to gaslight you with their version of history. The club threads is where to go - they are awesome with friendly pinball owners and former owners working together for the good of the hobby. Notable epic club theads: Batman 66, stranger things, Godzilla, Elvira, 007 - all awesome. There are some cooks that occasionally appear but you'll figure that out and add them to ignore.

I just envisioned seeing Jaws, Oddjob, Blofield on the LCD taunting you.

That would have been great. Still “old school” with modern elements as they stated in the interview.

I call this the “this food is Terrible…and such small portions!!” Crowd.

I can respect that... but it's really Stern in my opinion. A good comparison is the Rolex market, I am a Rolex watch enthusiast (own a few from being a collector for 20 years) and you can't touch a Rolex from a dealer for MSRP unless you are lucky, connected, or rich (there are other factors). But Rolex has not adjusted to the grey market ridiculousness and hasn't just decided to raise prices by tens of thousands and create market instability. In my opinion, if Rolex did what Stern did, there would be the same (if not more) fallout and the market would be unstable and destroyed. It has been argued on those forums that Rolex "is smart enough to know this". To me Stern is cutting off their nose to spite their face and has been doing so for a few years.. it's just gotten much worse.

An example? A watch that has an MSRP of $11K from a dealer was selling for $45K back in March. Now it's down to $22K-ish. Rolex has maintained thier MSRP's with minimal and fair/incremental price increases. People can still get in and get that dream watch for $11K. Most people love the hobby because they can still be part of it! None of us normal guys in this hobby feel like Rolex has crapped all over us like Stern- Offering way less of a product for a ton more money, and then charging us over the top for everything else "because they could".

Why is this important? I have my name on a list at Rolex and I may be able to get a watch at MSRP if the stars align. No way I'm paying $45K or even the $22K. Rolex has stayed out of the grey market and continues to offer its product at a fair price and make it available to "normal" people. And that's my point here- Stern has told each and every one of us that all they care about is the money by not only raising prices over and over and over, but offering us stripped down and lazy machines for those high prices. All under the guise of "at least it's fun" and the small batch of rich or new guys to the hobby seemingly defending every stop of Stern's ridiculous destruction of the normalcy of our hobby.

And if you can't see how destructive this has been to Pinball as a whole, just look at the threads on here on new releases over the past few years. $2000 uninspired toppers. Cut and paste artwork with no real creative toys or nothing inspiring. Just "buy it because you like pinball and pinball has money" and how dare you pretend that you are a normal person with a normal salary in this hobby!!

I don't know man, all I know is this- I have become disenfranchised with a hobby I have active with for 30 years.. I was there for all of the ups and downs, and the hobby seems way more toxic now than ever. What has changed? To me it's the passionate pinball creators, some pinball companies, and community- it was never about the money (and ALL about the money) and it was more about fun and community. None of the struggles in the past came up because of greed. NONE.

So, if you couldn't get the pin on the first day from Stern, you were just going to give up and not pursue it any further... and you don't make much money... and IT IS A $20K DECISION.

That doesn't make much sense. But I do hope you love the pin! It looks fun.

Basically the logos you see in the reveal video

Looks fun, but the price isn't reasonable.

when I saw your post, all I had to do is look at how long you've been here- less than a year. Also, the other big presence here that doesn't get it is ASAC Schrader.. also a new guy to the hobby.

My suggestion- don't even try to understand. With all due respect- you are not invested spiritually in this hobby like many of us are. It's like a new sports fan that's excited about the success of his team but doesn't get the history or why fans would be upset over historical parts of the sport.

Just to clarify I’ve been in the hobby for 20 years. I am just new to pinside. I just like to play pinball and will likely just go back to doing that.

No, you won't. You have been bitten by the bug. There is no vaccine. The pinball will keep you interested, the drama will keep you coming back.

Same with me. I bought my first pinball machine around 2000 but didn’t join this forum until last year. Not sure why people assume that pinside years = years in this hobby.

I hope stern only gets a couple hundred out and this becomes the new BBB. Will be interesting to revisit the agony of hundreds of outraged hobbyists.

LOL - Rolex absolutely control the grey market, they created it deliberately by limiting supply. which gives them an order book thats rammed. They are doing exactly_ the same thing in real terms as Stern by limiting demand (they are also reducing the number of channels you can buy through too). But they are also in a much more mature market place with many competitors. If you've been into watches that long you'll know that pre 2018 they for 10 years the massively increased prices. All the watch analysts are predicting 20-30 reduction in grey market because Rolex are saying they are going to increase production but I some how doubt it.

Neil.