Ouch, well I better start the long task of brainwashing myself into automatically thinking this game sucks so I’m not interested anymore.

I'd say it's the customers they are operating masterfully. The product sells itself.

Cluster in that

1- they keep having website f’ups that prematurely release content they didn’t intend.
2- They mismanaged their handling of the games at the show to keep people in sync with their desires
3- They had a huge delay between their initial teaser and the launch.
4- They still don’t have game play video out. They don’t know when they will because they are still awaiting on approvals (did we forget our set launch date was weeks ago?)
5- current estimates have games hitting the street nearly a month or more after launch

Yes, compared to the launch efforts stern has been building over the last few years to include tight coordinated media blitzes on multiple fronts, produced content, coordinated dates with partners, full media bundles, and games basically shipping what felt like immediately — yes this has been a major step back from what they had been accomplishing

If I finagle one. You can play it free.

LTG : )

With all that they still sold thousands of units in the past three days. So the launch couldn't have been that bad. Or all that other stuff doesn't matter, just the title and game features matter.

Does that mean Bond LE is actually sold out through to customers or just sold out to distributors? Are there so many people backing out because of such a high priced Bond LE distros be sitting on inventory like TS4 CE?

The only dealers with LE spots left at this point are the ones asking $15k+.

The judgement is on the launch itself- not the product. Marketing people get hired, paid, and evaluated on the stuff they are responsible for.

If all you care about is the sales demand observed at this point… then they could have just saved themselves a ton of trouble and just put out the old school flyers and sold just as many games as they have. Does that really bode well for the guy that approved that budget for all the marketing? Or the people charged to return value for their spend?

Don't forget opening sales for the LE prior to the clock actually expiring on their website

We can argue about price increase but the fact remains : they sold 1000 LE and the 500 SLE will all be sold.

Like it or not it's working for them. Now we can either accept it and get the games we really want even if it's a premium or a PRO or choose not to get involve anymore.

As long they sell Stern doesn't care who buys. The new people who joined the hobby made increase in price possible for Stern and still sell them.

Play with what you have and enjoy pinball is what I intend to keep doing.

I can see this being the case. They may have the full assets but use just enough to touch on each film.

If I were coding this, I’d simply code each movie as a simple progression. The objective, the woman, and henchman, the villain (somehow this reminds me of Carmen Sandiego - The Loot, the Warrant, Top Grunge, Carmen Sandiego). Do the 4 things and you beat the movie. Sort of like GnR, you have to complete “one of each album song” but it’s one movie of each Bond actor.

This way there’s variation, but each movie is only represented in a small way with a TNA-esque 4-step sequence to beat it. Add in an action sequence from each movie as the MB animations for that movie. Successfully be all the Bonds at least once. This makes it easier to code while touching on all 25 movies.

Meh. I'll bet NOBODY cares except a bunch of nerds on a pinball fanboy site and sales are completely unaffected -the only thing that Stern really cares about in the end.
Selling out all their LEs immediately must feel like a pretty solid victory, especially at the new price.
As has been stated previously, this isn't an Apple Iphone release with global coverage. This is an industry that most people don't even realize still exists.

Disagree. The hobby is clearly moving towards only catering the super rich.

Just look at toy story. A game setup to be more for beginners and more for a younger audience. Atleast here in sweden priced so it´s only available to ceo´s and similar.

The ce here cost about 20k. The le is at 16k.
Almost nobody is able to buy it and there will almost no place where you are able to play it.

It may be great for the company. The earnings per game must be great, but are we as a pinball community really pleased with a development of the hobby towards faberge eggs?

All good points. Too bad that Stern decided to turn on us home buyers, all in the name of a few scalpers. Stern has become the scalpers. We all get inflation, but this greedy cash grab has zero to do with inflation. If it was inflation, then why did the Pro only suffer a 1.45% increase over Rush Pro, but Bond Premium went up 7.78% msrp over Rush premium. Then add insult to injury to us the faithful long time buyers of LEs; a super spit in the face price increase of 17.12%. A mega greedy cash grab directed solely at us home buyers. Stern has sunk below in many people’s eyes on this ill thought out scheme to punish the LE buyer most of all, just because they think they can and are able to get away with it. Hard times are coming and we will not forget how poorly you treated us Stern during the good times!

If it was really inflation then why didn’t the price increases equally reflect that across all models??? It is because Stern knows their Commerical arcade buyers would tell them to take a hike and refuse to buy another pin from them. Stern has taken the HUO market for granted and obviously doesn’t give a flying flip how we feel.

Just like this meme someone made earlier bears repeating….

2260C29D-5685-4ACE-BC4E-5271294F78AD (resized).png

So.. Are you in for a BondLE or 60th?

It's sad that there is not more pinball manufacturers outside of the USA. Zaccaria and bell from that era had some neat stuff in their machines.

The hobby caters to anyone who can afford it, not just super rich CEOs. No one is forcing you to pay for what is being offered.

As an alternative, there are plenty of other options other than NIB pins, at many different prices. Not sure why folks fail to see that.

I could care less about Toy Story. Not owning or playing that game has no effect on how I enjoy the hobby. But if were talking TS4 prices, I'd rather have a few classic Ballys or Sys 11 and probably have cash left over.

No NIB. No problem. Plenty of fun in this hobby and no one needs to be a super rich CEO to have it.

it took a long time for manufacturers to finally figure this out, but just a few days for pinside to realize the gravity of the situation.

Stop blaming the pinball manufacturers. It's the pin scalpers fault why they keep increasing prices.
If JJP was smart they would be copying stern on how to do lower tear machines cheaper for operators. As much as I like JJPs products if they don't do what stern is doing now they will only be 1 pin a year or two and end up closing shop.
TS4 should have had drop targets for forky instead of stand ups and replace the spinning disc for 2 or 3 Benson drop targets(like cactus canyon)in front of gaby gaby.

Well, maybe now the faithful long time buyers of LEs can settle for a Premium and *gasp* save some money! Choices. What a concept.

You tell 'em! Although, I'm not sure how being treated poorly can make for good times but F U anyways, Stern!

The pinball market caters to a number of different buyer price points, no different than a number of other goods consumers purchase.

And that's what keeps things interesting, atleast for some of us. Nice haul btw.

1) The more expensive pins tend to subsidize the less fancy ones, again true for a number of markets.

2) Early adopters of expensive tech drive down the prices till it reaches an affordable level for the masses. Think how expensive large panel TV's were 20 or 30 years ago. Now those same panels "the rich" paid good coin for are virtually worthless and just about anyone can get a large panel TV for chump change.

Frankly if someone wants to pay for exclusiveness which includes toppers, powdercoat and numbered plaques that doesn't change my enjoyment of pinball one iota and they can have at it. Some people choose to drive beaters, others pavement princess SUVs that never see a drop of rain or snow.

An ass for every seat as we say in the auto trade.

Thanks for the nod on the lot pickup, my prior best was 6 pins at a go and I doubt I'll top 12 anytime soon if ever.

All Bonds? I don't see David Niven anywhere on this game. Guess I'll have to pass.

71JIfLG2k8L._SL1500_ (resized).jpg

We are not pleased that prices are going up (obviously) but this is a reflection of the froth in the secondary market in the last 2+ years. However, there are more places to play pinball on location now than at any time since the 90s (I don't know about Sweden but certainly true in the US). There will probably be a slowdown in these new titles being purchased by operators or at least you won't be seeing the premiums on location as much if they are close to $10k.

Very true. Didn’t realize until pulling up Pin map recently just how many locations have popped up with newer and classic pins. Something for everyone.

No it’s not. There is so much more to this hobby than NIB games.

Over the last couple years there have been a pretty significant increase in new players and that includes younger players as well as an an overall increase in women playing. The pinball industry is very healthy right now. This doom and gloom nonsense is just silly.

Feels to me like a lot of you are just whining about not being able to afford Porsches, and have this notion you are entitled to being able to. Nobody is being left behind here… you just don’t always get to have every single thing you want. That’s life.

I do agree with this but I think its fair to say there has been a shift in recent years. It wasn't that long ago that NIB was not common. It felt like the guys with routes where filling up location spots with NIB and the hobbyist where buying up everything coming off route. Now it seems like routes are pretty much filled with new pins and everyone just buys new. I bought a AC/CD Pro from retail with taxes and shipping for $5000 Canadian and at the time the seller was like I know the price is high but the guy that brought it in is one of my best customers and buys a lot from me so I had to give him top dollar and take care of him. The guys buying NIB had long relationships with dealers, I bet most dealers knew the vast majority of buyers by first name. The NIB market has exploded. These days dealers treat NIB buyer like the Soup Nazi.

P.S. The guys with routes are like, you want that kind of a deal on a routed pin forget it, get in line at Stern.

I’m interested in the layout. I hope it’s well received. I wouldn’t mind seeing more “street level” designs in the future. I’m a fan of the classics.

Shut up!

People might discover the true pleasures of this hobby and then prices will really explode.

Exactly! (Though if you haven’t followed the whole thread you might want to edit the term street level, lol). Many are missing the point getting angry or crying about whether they can afford “this” pin, when if you’d like to see stern make some new single level designs this should give you some hope that they are thinking about it. If you’re upset on the other hand because you’re a bond super fan and this covers more movies… I’d say wait until it’s actually revealed before you get too worked up. Realistically, how many assets are you expecting from 25 films on a playfield screen. I’d think the face/insert method probably reached its limit with 6 movies in the cornerstone models, lol.

Bond is probably Stern's most expensive license to date. It was rumored in 2016 that Activision paid $70m over 7 years to use the license in a video game.

To make Bond economically viable, Stern have to milk the license for all it's worth, which means they're likely to make a Roger Moore Bond game in the near future. And is the reason why they're offering 4 models today, with a fifth 'Goldfinger' edition promised if sales are good.

All eyes are on this super-duper edition, which is very cleverly designed by Stern's MVP, and offers all the Bonds in one game. Elwin is such a big deal now that the appeal of this game is 50% Elwin, 50% Bond.

To non-pinheads, they won't give two shits who designed it... the Bond theme is all that matters. It's the coolest, most desirable license the pinball world has yet acquired.

I've discussed this before... super-rich people don't want to own something a regular ordinary person can afford to buy. Which is why they don't drive around in Toyotas.

Don't be upset you can't afford this game; it's not targeted at you.

Will there be a nod to baccarat

I’m currently in on the LE and love the Bond theme.
The idea of cranking out another Bond game with a single level layout and a different designer at a possibly much higher price point is simply bizarre.

In my humble opinion. I don’t care if the game was designed by The Pope himself. It either better come with 15k cash(assuming Stern asks 25k) sitting in the cabinet when I buy or it will have to have some of the most amazing gameplay and innovative features I’ve ever seen. A spinning hat will not get it done.

Right now I feel there are a lot of price pumpers(probably in some way connected to distributors or possibly Stern) trying to get a feel of the public of what they are willing pay. Sort of an interesting game of cat and mouse. Since there is no set price.

Last thing, the notion that “rich people” will just plunk down say…25k because they can is silly. “Rich people” (which I personally hate that label) for the most part got to be “rich” by consistently making intelligent financial decisions/investments and working extremely hard over a long period of time. Nobody, whether you’re “rich” or “poor” (again, arbitrary terms) like making decisions that turn into a loss. Nobody.

A number of Diamond Beatles pins sold for 25k at release.

So there is people who have disposable income where 25k is a not an major hardship to ownership.

I would not mind a Pro myself but so far have managed to avoid buying a NIB pin.

It’s not about the hardship..at all. What I’m saying is nobody likes making a poor financial decision. It’s the psychological effect not the monetary effect.

And I’m guessing there is a lot of regrets out there of the people that bought the Diamond edition….and some not.

I created a Poll to see what people think the game is worth for fun.

There aren't many data points to prognosticate about pricing for the Elwin anniversary Bond game.

The Beatles Diamond version isn't a good barometer, in my opinion, because the Diamond version is identical to the $8K Gold version, save for an alternative crystal backglass in lieu of a translite and some inconsequential other cosmetic differences. Beatles Diamond production was limited to 100 games.

A few Diamonds sold for $25+ upon release. The Platinum version, limited to 250 units, fetched in the $17K range at the start. Over time, both the Diamond and Platinum versions settled at considerably lower price points. Diamonds fell to the $13K - $16K range and Platinums to the $10K - $11K range.

In contrast, Golds could be bought NIB upon release for $7,500 and have increased in value about 10% and 20%+ with the topper. Golds were advertised as limited to 1614 games (1964 minus the Platinum and Diamond editions).

Stern's Supreme is reported to have sold for $50K. I suspect that any such sale was a publicity stunt as opposed to a legitimate purchase. Even if it was real, it was an outlier, providing no meaningful help in price formulation. Most importantly, Supreme is a niche title, with trendy appeal outside the typical pinball community. Supreme's playfield is bare and not targeted to typical pinball enthusiasts.

The Bond anniversary edition has little in common with Primus or Whoa Nellie. Arguably, it shares some commonality with other anniversary version releases. But, the others are all multilevel interpretations of cornerstone games, unlike this Elwin Bond game.

I'm guessing that the Elwin Bond anniversary edition will fetch $19,999 after the proverbial dust settles and after several collectors pay considerably more. Of course, price speculation is particularly dubious absent playfield photos and gameplay video.

I assume your Elvira 40th had $15k in cash sitting in the cab when you bought it?

It did. How did you know Sherlock? Lmao.

Don't forget that a lot of the Beatles Diamond and Platinum Editions sat with dealers for literally YEARS.

It was not like they were instant fomo sellouts by any stretch.

Seen this before in the art world.

Even if they did 2,000 LEs, they will sell. The problem is if they ever come out with a complete stinker of a property or game and it will not sell. The higher the price, the people with pockets will wait for the properties they want.

James Bond is a great theme.

I don’t see how they will have 500 buyers lining up for a single level game, even though it is Bond and Elwin.

At $20k it wipes out ALL the flippers. After that, tough to think there might be 500 left at that price.

Think it settles in the $15-16k range depending on what we see of course

Revised my estimates down because of the high 500 number

It will also depend on the amount of video assets with all the different Bond movies.

There sure are other options. For the same money as a new le i can get....

Two cabinet rigged head to head car racing compus with wheels and all. Playing the latest racing game.
An airhockey table.
A projector with screen for homecinema/sports
A multicade with all the oldies and goodies
And then probably some money over for bar, decorations and such.
That is for one pinball machine.

I dont think such a comparishion bode well for pinball unfortunately.

As for older but still good pins, have you noticed the price on theese?
Also atleast in my view most older pins are less suited for home environment, since code isnt really suited to todays demands.
People today want progression, open up new stuff etc etc. And this is even more important in a home collection.

In sweden pinball on location is close to dead as it is unfortunately, and i dont think locations that are still remaining, can bare the cost new games bring.

The best way to remove the flippers is to make game unlimited.
That also have the advantage that the product has to stand on it´s own merit.

I really salute and love american pinball in their policy/approach regarding this.
I so hope they can have a really big hit soon.

We don't even know the price yet or if it will definitely be limited to 500 so nobody knows what's going to happen.

On a completely unrelated topic, does anyone know how I can make $25k cash in a few weeks with minimal effort?

You can only choose one.
Either make enough to meet demand or raise the price really high. Stern, Say no more.

25k, you guys have gone mad, no wonder they have raised the prices. it's not worth it.

That’s what a pro and premium are for.