The majority of discussion is ALWAYS about pricing. Going back 20 years, it’s what drives online pinball discussion.

“Full stop.” This is nothing new. It’s all anybody ever wants to talk about in pinball.

Because pinball "Is not a lifestyle brand"-nor should it be

Pinball is really about the operators-they are the life blood of this hobby(please don't forget about OP's) Catering to the newer home hobby and losing track of the foundation pinball was built upon is the wrong road to go down.

Im calling it, anyone who plays this game (with a open mind, and forget the price and hate for a game they never flipped) is going to love it. Hopefully its out in the wild so we can flip it somewhere.

To reiterate:

No one has demanded everybody purchase this game. Your entitlement is making you all crazy.

Tilt in Minneapolis will be getting one.

I think no matter what you are into, price is always the main topic, and normal people do get angsty when the prices are blown out of the water.

Some of these people defending this were complaining about gas prices. Why don't they just ride a bike? No one is telling you to drive!

I paid 20k for this and I don't need help, thank you very much! I am excited to play the thing. I play all my games A LOT and this won't be an exception. This game will get hundreds if not thousands of plays before I sell it

Heighway pinball put the LCD screen there too. I think it was Aurich's idea.
Ha ha ha

way closer than i want it to be.

But then again, at a certain point...you might have to admit pinball machines are just cars without wheels.

This is a forum, intended to exchange opinions. And that means that some will criticize Stern and others will not. Big deal.

I’m in the “emperor has no clothes” camp for Bond SLE (Stern) and TS4 (JJP). Skating on past excellence (GZ, WoZ, GnR) and exploiting earned reputation following up with insanely priced ultra high margin mediocre games will result in backlash.

It’s a risky strategy and may not be sustainable. I think it’s disappointing because I want GZ and GnR level games and not these comparatively lazy ultra high margin FOMO things. But if others love them, great. Enjoy!

I don’t think price is the real issue. If Stern had delivered a massive world under glass, the critique would be different. People would still be disappointed if they can’t afford it but at least there wouldn’t be the elephant in the room that the machine itself is kinda lame.

Just listened to Kanada’s 756 episode. He was right on with his thoughts on James Bond’s 60th Anniversary pinball machine and the pricing of pinball machines. I suggest you listen to it.

No matter the gameplay, in 2023 I won't pay $20,000 for a pinball machine with such disgusting artwork, it's horrible photo editing.
Why not push the principle of vintage to the extreme and do old-fashioned graphics, flat, frame, illustration...?

This is like the classic scalper/flipper defense. “Just don’t buy it…” and insist you put your head in the sand about how the activity impacts the market as a whole.

There is more to it than individual purchases when you are talking about the market as a whole.

I AM SO ANGRY

I guess I'm failing to see what the big deal is here and why people are getting so upset over a true collectors item. There is nothing wrong stern making a special non-cornerstone game targeted at a different demographic. Other industries do it all the time. There's a target market for everything these days - low end up to very high end. Rather funny seeing people get all bent out of shape, but I can say it's no surprise. Bitch, Bitch, Bitch seems to be the usual pinside way no matter what is being discussed.

Hell, I'm happy for all the buyers of this game - it looks like a fun game and I hope to play it one day. You only live once - and if you've got the cash have some fun with it - you cant take it with you when your time is up!

I was trying to brain storm to see what machine first introduced the LCD on playfield-all I could think of was Star Wars? One thing I have learned in pinball is I am now resistant to any changes. Believe it or not I still prefer DMD over LCD and I have not accepted new insider connect yet(holding out).

Speaking of Insider connect-did you guys notice they positioned on left instead of right? I am so confused is it supposed to be on the right or left?

left or right.gif

Even if he (finally) makes valid points, I'll take a hard pass on the podcast, thanks.

Yeah I’ll get right on that. LMAO.

Hang on………….I’m still laughing inside.

I’ll pass on your “suggestion”.

If I listen, good chance I will buy one. I'm not going to listen.

You can all make it about the price, on either side of the argument, until you are red in the face, but I think a lot of people's reaction to this machine is not about that.

Foolishly, perhaps, yet I think some of us were hoping for something as strikingly retro-cool as the Fathom 2.0, but with an original design by the GOAT himself, a dream license and the production muscle afforded by the dominant pinball producer in the world. What they actually announced seems (to me) shockingly uninspired across the board, especially given the "super limited original concept" framework, where you would expect some sort of focused statement to be the driving factor.

I am just confused (and yes, disappointed) by the product - neither angry not questioning the merits of capitalism or thinking that this is a defining moment for the pinball industry. I hope the owners will be thrilled with it and that it is successful for Stern - I have no doubt other products that I find more appealing are coming down the line.

Agree with this 100%

I’m most disappointed in Sterns marketing or lack of and how they rolled this out.

Do you realize the BOM of a podcast is practically $0? All of the equipment is long ago expensed. And now you expect me to PAY to listen to one?!

We can't encourage this kind of behavior, and you guys are hurting the hobby by doing so. If you guys keep paying for podcasts, what we will be paying for next? AIR?!

No. That guy is a cuckold's cuckold. Not interested .

Theres nothing wrong with supporting podcasts or media that you like. Maybe you don't want to support THAT podcast, but the idea of patreon and creator support and whatnot is not a bad thing.

Maybe worth noting. I support Silverball Chronicles on patreon. The podcast itself is free but what Dave and Dennis do has to take so much time and effort, even if their BOM is "practically 0". I'm a proud Chronie and happy to support them. Some podcasts or bonus content is behind a paywall (SC isn't behind a paywall fyi), it just be like that sometimes. Its fine.

Edit- I realize now I am probably just an idiot and you were making a joke

The BOM argument is always one of the silliest, isn't it? Your example of a podcast is almost like and example of a a college textbook. "How can a textbook on introductory Astrophysics cost $100? It's just cardboard, paper, and ink."

https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Modern-Astrophysics-Bradley-Carroll/dp/1108422160/ref=asc_df_1108422160/

Podcastument

No, they are already buying that in JB60SLE

Reading through this read should make Stern realize that it's mainly that the hobbyist is disappointed. What did people expect from this SLE and why are people so down on it?

Elwin-Everything he's done to this point is amazing. This was a total miss.
Limited-500 is hardly a super limited run.
Artwork-Clipart style, no art blades, cabinet front is plain matte black by the coin door.
Innovation-Crazy that there's nothing unique in this pin.
Layout-ok, not groundbreaking. I'm sure it's fun to play.
Price-WTF?

It's really about the precedence that this creates. Is the hobby at a point that you can place a label on something that is stated as "super limited" and it will sell at any price even though it's mediocre? It's happening.

And yes, I'm aware of the position that Stern has (they know this more than us) and that they are the most efficient business in their industry. They will continue doing the "SLE cash grab" until the public says "no more".

Want to complain? Don't open your wallet! And the silent 500 that buys these...the next one will 25K...watch.

It seems like the previous generation “operator” group that pinball was started on is clashing with the home use only collectors Stern was seeming to point this game toward.

Yes you’re paying more to get less in the retro theme. Compare it with buying an 80’s or 90’s game and sending it to a certain well known high end restorer.

Also margins in medium or large businesses like Stern are typically not always what people think. Stern saved pinball in my opinion and should be allowed to make money.

After reading through piles of posts with the general consensus “Stern could have done better” “What was Keith thinking taking this on with so many restrictions?” “We get very little for the huge price tag” and “they won’t sell all 500”. My take is this, I was in a position to buy this machine as a business expense for my business with the opportunity to make some revenue off of plays. I bought this game for my facility so people can come from all over to play it, discuss what they like or dislike about it, and be able to say they played it on location somewhere. I’d much rather have it available for the public to enjoy and appreciate than sitting in my living room getting played a few times a week feeling sorry for myself for paying so much for what many are saying is so little.

I don’t care if it makes any money, and in the end, if I lose money when I go to sell it. I just want to contribute to the pinball community to help this hobby and bring people together. My facility is located in Southern California and I’m guessing this pinball will be difficult to find out in the wild.

Keith worked for a local amusement company literally 2 miles from my facility and came to my facility to service my pinball machines before going to Stern. This pinball will sit alongside a Godzilla Premium and I’ll be proud to showcase two Elwin games side-by-side. Just like all of my other pins, it will be cared for and kept in good working condition at all times for everyone to enjoy and get the best possible experience out of it.

Some serious coping going on around here.

I just watched the promo video on Stern's website again. Here is why this release (and probably other recent ones) is annoying/disappointing/frustrating:
-Does it have any music/theme songs in the game (besides the main theme)? They don't say.
-Are there any audio or video clips from the movies in the game? No indication of this in the flyer or promo video.
-What gets displayed on the in-playfield LCD? "Learn assignments" is all they say.
-Are there any multiball modes? The interview indicates at least one.
-Can we see some gameplay video? No.

Look, the Thunderball LE was overpriced but I bought one. I would have bought this also if it was anywhere near reasonably priced. It's not reasonably priced and there are so many questions that are unanswered. They announced this game 4 months ago and knew it was coming for at least a year and a half so why are they so bad at communicating basic product information to their customers?

there is a difference between making money by innovating and doing something beautiful and making money by doing shit.
Stern has, it's true, saved the pinball machine, by improving the design, the lighting, the sound, by hiring renowned illustrators, but he saved the pinball machine above all because we buy them, because at this price we have to be demanding.

Good for you, but I'm considering downvoting your post just because I'm jealous of anyone who can keep all of their pins in good working condition all the time.

Because it's a crummy license.

Stern wanted Bond, and they got it, but they're dealing with a stuck up group of power control freaks who don't want anyone to sully their precious brand.

Thou Shalt Only Use Movie Posters!

Which is how we ended up with this ridiculous state of not being able to stack modes in the plebe Bond games, because it's a no-no to mix the films. Someone might get confused!

It's a good reminder to appreciate that most Stern games now have really gorgeous art, they have talent like zombieyeti on deck, and the occasional ugly stinker just highlights how good everything else looks in comparison. They can't all be winners.

So previous pinball savior now equates to to allowing them to be a pinball piriah?? Get out of town with that argument. Just because ALL main stream pinball manufacturing might have ceased does not mean somebody else couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. They don't get a pass just because they kept building when others gave up. CSI and 24 are not what saved pinball. If anything that accolade belongs to Godzilla right now in my book.

Just to point out many dealers still have LE's they are trying to sell that no one wants. You really think people are going to fork out the additional 7k for less of a pinball?

The big red flag here is that Stern didn't tell any of the dealers what MSRP was going to be, they had to buy it before knowing. IMO this is just a hint to what the new Disney CEO is trying to do with max profit vs. building a quality product that people want.

This really reminds me of how popeye nearly bankrupted pinball with the downfall of bally/williams in the 90's with it's expense.

TLDR: People want a good product at a fair price, not a limited product at an outrageous price. Dealers are the bloodstream of pinball.

I am all for Stern making money but how they do it is key. I see a big failure in several departments. Just the amount of money lost on potential aftermarket parts like toppers is substantial. I do believe Stern would be better off sticking with the bread and butter(yes ditching 'the pin' was a good idea). So you have low end, middle end and now high end, yet you do not have the personnel to properly service the middle end(bread and butter). I know everyone thinks they can run a company better but it really does come down to having good management. Not trying to float my boat-but if I was in charge of the aftermarket parts department-I know I could make things happen-enough excuses. Stick with the bread and butter and take advantage of aftermarket parts like they said they were going to do five years ago-rant over.

Here is where I’m at and I’ll ask you this question. If you knew it had at least a song or two from each era of bond and appropriate video based on era of bonds in game that are specific to included modes could you get to 20k.

The answer from me is I could justify the 20k if it checked these boxes, I buy a couple new games per year and have a premium on the way. HOWEVER… not knowing any of this for certain rules me out as a potential buyer of this game. Wish I felt different, it’s how I made my decision though, I know I wouldn’t be happy without these components so not worth the risk. I love my Beatles game and I’m sure this will shoot as good or better.

Not all about the price in my mind

A one in 200 chance seems like the best odds I will ever get of owning one!

Worth buying a ticket I think, and if I lose who cares, a good deed is done.

You WANT and NEED the home collector. Period. If you want the manufacturer to do well and keep the lines running. A pin is a luxury item, like a Porsche, a Rolex etc. I am not discounting in any way, shape or form the location owner. The fact is the home collector market keeps it going in good times and bad.

Has anyone figured out what the shot that GG has never seen on a game before is? Wasn't that this game he was referring to?

"the game doesn't warrant/isn't worth that price" isn't an argument you can make on any game at launch. You can only say it for yourself and not the market.

The *market* determines if it warrants the price. Every buyer has their own demand curve... if their are 500 people who decide it is worth it... then it is.

The most amusing argument in pinball happens when people throw shade over someone buying something that is expensive/exclusive. I know dozens of people who wouldn't take ***ANY*** pinball machine for ****FREE*** if it meant they had to keep it in their house (and not immediately sell it).