Stern hasn't but American and JJP both have. American cut the price of Hot Wheels compared to Oktoberfest, and GNR Standard was cheaper than PotC or DI. If I recall correctly.

So it does happen, just not with Stern so far. And they would eventually be forced to lower prices if they ever started having trouble moving product. MSRP prices have never been this high before, so I think in a lot of ways we're entering uncharted territory.

At $18k yes. That’s fantasy Tiger. I’ve been told Distros are trying to get $25k out of the box.

$18k a whole lot different

Heard the same....no telling yet, I suppose...

Then they won’t sell their “nice round numbers” in the future

RushLE ain’t happening at 1,000

Venom? Zero chance.

I get that you are all in Stern Army Levi but it’s quite arrogant to believe that price cuts can’t come.

You remember the days Stern nearly went out of business and had to be bailed out, like JJP.

The greater economy, strength of the US dollar and impact on international sales etc is going to have an effect.

We will soon find out.

I didn’t say Stern was stupid, they know and they will adjust accordingly.

Well Mark, you me and others I know aren’t dropping $25k on a 500 single level pin regardless of who designed it.

Not gonna speak for you but that is a hard NO.

I already have a game if I want it in the $17-$18k range

Stern does NOTHING to reward their loyal buyers and take us for granted.

Can they get away with it now? Let’s see how it works out for them long term

No pinball company in the 100 year history of the industry has ever cut prices. I’m just stating fact.

The first time it happens will be the first time ever.

Hello, Gottlieb in the late 80s? API Hot Wheels? GNR Standard?

Granted, in all cases games were stripped down. But price cuts have happened before. Like I pointed out to you all ready Levi.

I don’t consider those price cuts. They were new models.

Except Ap. Which I don’t care about it.

Regardless, let’s just go with “stern has never cut prices and I don’t see it happening in the future.”

Also you guys have all been talking about our economy collapsing and destroying the pinball market for two years. When exactly is this gonna happen again?

That’s not true. Many simply went out of business instead of having to cut price or try and build 25k TAFs in the heyday!

My first pin was a LOTRLE on close out from Automated due to no demand

And they understand economics.

When you reach a certain pricing point you hit “demand destruction”.

Never in pinball history have we seen such pricing inflation heading into a recession partly fueled by trillions of free money that is now gone

As maybe one of the prototype “targets” that “throws money at everything”, I’m telling you they will have to adjust pricing AND/OR quantity in the future.

Beltking, myself and Mark are 3 people that bought the great game, Elvira 40th for $25k

1 of 200 and I had an LE to sell for a big profit. It’s a full fantastic Lyman masterpiece. And great theme.

I had a guy offer me one for $17k a month later. NIB. Ok. Live and learn.

Public service announcement to anybody getting sucked in on day one at $25k, DON’T DO IT!!!

FOMO is not your friend. You will NOT miss out later at a much cheaper price.

Yes, I agree with you. They will sell about 100 quickly at $25,000 and then maybe another 100 in 30 days. There is going to be a lot in inventory left after the hype and FOMO period at $25,000.

I also agree with you that the economy will drag down Stern’s 1,000 machine runs on some LEs on any game that is not an A list license. I had told my distro six months ago I wanted a Venom LE. Now, after the price raise and an almost certain run of 1,000 of the LE for Venom, I’m thinking premium (or possibly even a pro) and I’ll add the upgraded speakers, lollipop rails, and Voodoo glass myself. My “collector” money went into my BBB a few months ago…keep the collector money in truly collectible games.

75D94D45-04EA-4D74-9566-92ED159E6021 (resized).jpeg

I’m not encouraging anybody to buy any $25k pinball machines. Anybody doing that thinking they are gonna make a profit are stupid. There’s easier ways to make a few bucks.

Anybody doing it because they want the game more than $25k, hey good for them. Enjoy.

Nice BBB! And cute happy kids Tiger

You just summed it up best. “Keep the collector money in the truly collectible games”

When AC/DC came out I went with a premium. Just wanted to play it.

TWD was supposed to only have an LE and pro back then. That’s what got me into “LEs”

Stern figured out demand was taking off at that point and added the premium after the fact.

Many Many LEs later, at 1,000 and $13k? Bond will be my last one because of theme and Thunderball.

A truly “collectible” pin that I like to play, like an AC/DC BIB, I’m looking for one

There will be some people that pay that up front. The buyer pool is less this time at that price.

Kind of like what rising interest rates just did to the housing market. Buyers drop out.

But yeah, some just won’t care. I get it

Yeah but WMS's business model isn't Stern's.. so the theory is roughly the same, but not the numbers. Remember, WMS was a large factory and larger business. They also did not optimize for re-runs and instead relied heavily on orders-in-hand to size a run and then be done with it. Stern pivoted to make their process to be more efficient and tolerant to product swaps so they are more willing to do 'batches' and do not need to sell all the orders at one time or even in one period of time.

I don't know a hard min number for a batch, but it seems like they are satisfied with a batch of of 250 or so? Obviously a single batch isn't enough for a cornerstone game to be successful.. but for their lower production games (where pricing can be setup for it) it seems like 100-500 can be made and they can be satisfied. Obviously building on an existing game (like they've done for Catwoman, Boutique Games, etc) makes that even more viable, but shows how they can scale manufacturing down and still get COGS and overhead costs into ranges they are happy with to keep the per-unit cost in an acceptable range.

Ditto, and correct Doug...( just dont know if I even want it yet)

Sweet BBB!!

Have tried unsuccessfully about 4 times on one of those....tough pin to get....still

Oh they’ll sell. And sit on Pinside marketplace at even dumber pricing.

I didn’t buy the Elvira to make money but when I buy a pin I also don’t want to lose 8k off the bat. I’m guaranteed to get a 60th but price hopefully will be in line.

Same reason I’m pissed at Ticketmaster and their flexible prices by demand. At launch they show almost sold out at $400 a ticket for muse. Two hrs later a shit ton of tickets and half the price. Won’t cancel order of refund. Fuck Ticketmaster. Lost my business.

Yep. Me too on Ticketmaster.

When you have an issue like I did for the Texas/Tech football game you can’t get a live person on the phone!

Horrible. Done with them. At least with Vivid you get a live person to help

Well, here’s one for you. My Elvira 40 NIB (no glittergate) actually cost me less than the Bond LE is currently advertised for here in UK. Thanks to our recent weak £ against the USD.

An issue with what?

Don’t buy any tickets you don’t want. Once you buy a ticket from Ticketmaster it’s yours.

Tickets are the biggest FOMO racket going. I usually wait out the on sale madness and go from there. Most shows I go to I don’t pull the trigger till a week or so before the show.

Pretty sure the original number was 30 b66 SLE’s for the Stern 30th anniversary. But demand was so high (ie they had soooo many video applications) they just upped it to a random 80 - probably a mix of think we can sell and still keep the super exclusivity.

500 Bond Sle is still super exclusive because it’s the only version of the game. I’m assuming they did a bit of a ring around to some distributors to see what they thought they could sell. If the stories of Elvira 40 are true, distributors may go a little lighter on the price this time? Who knows. Our distributor didn’t go the doctor on Elvira SLE - just sold them for his normal margin.

They justified the extra 50 because 2016 was the 50th anniversary of the series. So they decided to celebrate both anniversaries to get to 80.

That’s right. Funny in itself. 30 was a relevant number. 50 was a relevant number. Let’s add them together so it means nothing.

Haha. Exactly!

The numbers are all irrelevant. Stern’s (DEs) first game was put out in 1987 so who is counting anyway.

If you really need the number to “mean something” it isn’t too hard just come up with something that equals 500 for bond, shouldn’t be too hard.

I think 500 extras may have been involved in the goldfinger “soldier gassing” scene so there ya go!

Yeah, I’m a bit worried about that myself. I think letting the distributors set prices risks pissing off their best customers if they overreach initially. Hopefully the prices that are being rumored are trial ballon’s to gauge what their customers will tolerate and the actual price (whatever that is) is something that will be able to hold its value without causing hard feeling and buyers remorse.

Have zero concerns my Distro will be fair w me....I'm much more concerned about the game itself....how am I supposed to make a decision without even seeing the thing?

Don't care about the "500"...they'll make the run and that will be that. If it's 500 stinkers, then it might as well be 50. If it's 500 "gotta have" then doubt anyone is going to take a bath.

I WANT to like this game, and validate (w my wallet only) what I'll pay for it. But tying it into the cornerstone release, then just darkness is freakin' weird...

The strength of USD is already having a dampening effect on Bond LE sales in the international market. Check websites around the world to see they’re still not sold out on Bond LEs. LEs of lesser popularity will not garner a whopping 17+% LE price increase like Stern has done on Bond. They’re just way too high and Stern will learn all over again with the 60th. So foolish going down the road of overcharging for a product just because you think you can and worried scalpers are going to take your profit.

So just went to Stern's game page for Bond...noticed the 60th shadow pic has been changed to scrolling arrows w nothing in the middle...gotta believe they're going to show this thing soon ( ok, I'm reaching...whatever... )

Yeah they updated the 60th pic to coming soon on on the head. Prob Tuesday

My dealer was shocked when I turned down my 2 LE’s

I would go 17 on the special edition but not a penny more.

I also agree with you the market is topping out. Glad to see Zillas going for 17+

And what did your Dealer say to the $17k offer? Curious, as my call will be coming soon ( which one do I want)....

Trying to figure out how the " Zilla at 17+" factors in (?)...do you think the title is that good to avoid going down...would think that game will face the same downturn as the rest (?)

Pin prices may have ‘finally’ topped off regardless of 25 years of doom and gloom predictions. My HWN and CCr have arrived/arriving and bought both for less than the cost of one SLE. From Stern. Stern. Ah-huh.

Unless Distro’s price these less than I’m thinking. Then I’d be shocked.

Huge Bond fan and all but damn.

“There are things we need, and there are things we want. But there’s also a whole lot in between. Sometimes we fool ourselves into thinking that something we only want is something we need.
Sometimes to alleviate the guilt of making a purchase (especially a large one), we feel the need to justify it. But if you have to explain something, it usually means that it can’t stand on its own as being the right thing to do.”

Congrats Stern - Marketing 101: F

He hasn’t called me back on it yet, still miffed I balked at Bond LE’s. Seeing them for 15k makes me feel like I missed out on nothing. No FOMO for me. Yes I am or was a FOMO buyer. WAS

Kinda glad new LE pricing is out of my league by logic not pricing. But pricing is part of my logic.

I am happy they can sell a thousand LE’s for 14,500, shows me how strong the market is.

By the way loved the code name for Bond “Jaws” LMAO +1 on that one stern!!

It's a nice bit of misdirection and I still chuckle when I see folks thinking Stern is going to release an actual Jaws movie pin.

BTTF is the code name for Rush (for the time machine in the center of the playfield)

Honestly, like anything else the price eventually ends up being what Buyers are willing to pay and sellers are willing to sell at. The Bond LE is a percent example some dealers sold at MSRP, some have sold slightly above having seen the market on other games skyrocket above MSRP and the game they just sold sell for thousands more. They know a recession is here and they may or most likely may not enjoy the sales and margins they’ve had. Their running a business and trying to maximumize their profit. I have a distributor I like who actually called and asked how much above MSRP I thought was fair to both sides. He was checking with his best customers to get a read. I said I woukd love it pay MSRP or less, but I understood he could get more. He any discussed what he was thinking was fair and what I would be willing to pay over to be guaranteed a game. I also know that being a good and loyal customer and willing to pay a tad more will continue to guarantee me access to the games I want and to level customer service. Sometimes that’s a much better deal than the best price. I also know that I could get a Bond SLE if I wanted one. Chances are he will be able to get more than I am willing to pay and I’m ok with that. I like the guy and I want him to do well. I ask know he’s a high integrity guy who has done me a couple of very good turns. Again there is price and there is value. The lower price is not always the best value.

I love single level games and obviously Elwin is a big draw along with the theme. Back when I talked to my distributor about this game I told him my limit was $18,000 and he said it was much more. I might have gone 20k if it was Sean Connery only. The fact that the SLE is multiple Bonds hurts this game with me. I also factored in the excellent looking Playfield on the regular Cornerstone version of the game. If the SLE was Connery only and the regular game looked as crappy as TS4, I might have just pulled the trigger and said F it.

Yep....Ive never needed to " validate " or " justify" a single pin purchase. Suspect Ive paid more, sometimes less than others here for the identical pin.

Been enjoying the games for quite some time as what it is....a hobby....nothing more, nothing less.

They are, though. They bought the license, which is well-known, and two distributors told me it was actually in the works. So I'm pretty sure Jaws is a lock. BTTF is still a wild card.

Thanks for the response...suspect he'll sell all the LE'S regardless, and these 60's are going somewhere.

I dont buy games to flip, nor buy every new release ( not even close). Bond is a great theme for me and the LE looks fun. Have 1 of those locked at a fair price. Will wait to see if the 60 changes my mind or not...kinda that simple for me.

( I never post what my actual price is out of respect for the Distro )

It’s was $14,500 with tax and shipping from stern for the LE. My LE was $12,999 out the door. No tax free shipping reputable dealer.

I have never seen people so wound up over a pin when no official pictures have been released nor any official pricing.

It's just crazy to me.

Any word when we will see pics and video? Is this really a pin without ramps and innovative mechs?