Chlorine has a corrosive effect on gold. So in a few months, Gary's tub is really gonna look like crap.

Which is why he uses the finest water drawn from artesian wells.

This all depends on what price the distributors decide to put on the machines. What's your definition of an average money bond super fan?

One thing I do know is that it is gonna be a lot of fun to watch this whole saga unfold.

Also I don't thing bond super fans who aren't pinball fans are gonna even know this thing exists.

Bond marketing might reach further than you think.

New Bond will be unveiled soon.
They will have to re-decal the cab

They need a set price on it. Buying day one from one guy and then finding out a few days later it would have been 4k cheaper with someone else leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Been there with Elvira 40th. Set an MSRP

If you have to ask...

My distributor friend asked stern today about info on 60th since getting a lot of questions from people. They were very informative to them said “ the release hasn't been scheduled yet.”

I don’t see many pins selling to strictly bond super-fans with no ties to pinball. However, those into pinball or collectibles markets will pay heavy attention and will be buying it up. Good on them. I want to play one. I can be adopted.

It’s a Distro $$$ grab again.

You said you have “been there”.

With 500 now, should be lesson learned

They will tap the early FOMO adopters first

This is the unfortunate part of the whole idea of the 60th. People at first will be led to believe they’re all sold out at a ridiculously high price, only to find out they were not sold through to consumers. The price you paid will take a dive many thousands and settle at a price they should have been launched at to begin with. History in this hobby always repeats itself over and over.

No, no, this time it will be different!

Because...because...because it's a unique Elwin layout!

People are basing their sellout theories entirely on the fact that it will have a unique Elwin layout. Every other pitfall from Stern's previous attempts at this kind of thing still applies.

No doubt. 500 is simply not a low number for the price they want

And the Elwin pump is fine but it’s just a single level pinball machine.

It’s a great theme. But the code matters more. Lyman was the real king of pinball

How much were Elvira 40th originally? Seem like they have been prettier constantly $23-24k since Jan. for NIB.

Lol, yes, love those “this time will be different” cheerleaders. Justifiers always choose to ignore history.

500 of them will be tough to move at $18,000. The first 100 sure. Maybe even the first 200. But if this thread is any indication (filled with hard core pinheads and bond fans) think that $20,000 + is insane . Then what will the rest of the consumers think?? No way 500 machines will sell for $18,000 plus. Especially in this economy

Distributors set the price. I think they started at $25k. Pretty sure Bond 60th will be this way, too. Stern sets a high wholesale, dists buy them, and then dists can try to get whatever they can for it.

Spot on.

The initial FOMO will die fast. Distros will get what they can and then reality sets in.

Economy is heading towards a full blown recession

This will do better than Beatles but Stern doesn’t really care.

They will sell all 500 at $15k to Distros.

Nah, if they are priced at $18,000 they would sell out immediately. I agree financial times look rough ahead but the lure of Elwin and exclusivity will sell this sucker out immediately.

I wish I was a Bond super fan, I’d be all after one of these. Im just too luke warm to Bond, so I bought a White Water instead.

I’m not sure I understand your argument. Your saying Elvira lost ~2k in value and it was a pin that was basically the same as the mass produced model. I’m not cheering for a high price (because I’d like one if they are not too insane) and I do think 500 units is a high number for a very high priced pin, but I don’t see a historical equivalent to compare to so all we’re doing is guessing until we see it and the dealers set a price. Then they sell or they don’t… and later the price goes up or down so like what you buy

You think there are 500 home collectors who will pay $18,000 for a machine that they have never played? Remember, this price and machine eliminates all operators. Sorry I just don’t see it happening

The opportunity to own the most rare Elwin game ever is enough. All will sell. Quickly. And expensively.

PLENTY (myself included) paid $15k for the underwhelming Batman'66 SLE (and routed it - so price doesn't eliminate ALL operators) back when LEs were $9k, so yeah, $18k would likely sell out right away. If it's a really great design, I could see it selling out for over $20k.

Not sure operators were ever the target for this, how many operators would have paid 14k for the 1000 Le’s when they could have bought a pro or premium? I’d think most of that thousand are going to private collections as these will.

Ok so you’re a perfect example of their target market. You previously paid top dollar for a machine…. Are you planning on paying $18,000-$20,000 for this one?

I told myself never again after I experienced the cheap "extras" of the SLE that fell apart almost right away and the lack of even warranty replacement SLE parts (how bad was their planning?!) for the high-priced SLE machines they were selling. Oh, and then there was 18 months with essentially no game, just a box of blinking lights.

But, well, Elwin this time. So...maybe. But that cabinet is atrocious. I hope it was a placeholder and it will be something a LOT more classy on release. I'll say my bias is still no, but Never Say Never Again isn't included in the 60th, so it might be me filling that slot like a pushy.

Hah makes sense. I just think too many of the top buyers feel “burned” (for lack of a better word) by Batman SLE, Elvira 40th, and the current state of the economy to make them confident enough to buy one right away. We all know that there will always be used games in the future and they likely won’t cost much more

Nah, several Elvira 40ths for sale right now in the $19k range. And while yes, it's a face-lift of an existing game, the existing game has a great layout, lots of mechs, and awesome code.

So far, we don't have any clue if all of those will hold true for Bond 60th.

Right, the only real complaint people have about Elwin's Avengers is the code. And that code has definitely kept people away from AIQ. Code matters, and the code on Bond 60th is a big question mark. I don't see how Stern can possibly code this game fully, given it's run size.

But I'd love to be surprised.

That’s fair, a great layout is not always enough. The draw for me is the Elwin single level for something different but I don’t care much about the theme (don’t love the idea of owning two different Bonds ) and code will probably make or break it.

You may be right maybe it won't sell. But it is supposed to be around 17995. I hope I get to play one someday. I can't buy one anywhere around 18g

I had a chance to buy a BM66 SLE but ended up going for a later run signed premium after the code was remastered.
Think there were peeps also complaining about the early run cabinet/leg brackets being a bit suspect.

Elvira 40th had powdergate .. some of those looked woeful.
Premium prices don't always equate to better quality.

I’m not so sure.
Most Bond super fans still think a pinball machine is like what was in the early 80s arcades.
Could be another Beatles scenario.
To be fair, that pin played ok and looked great but didn’t go ballistic.

Elvira was 25k plus I have 1k in topper plus I did some cool mods which were limited to 40 total so prob have $26700 into it and will take a bath on it if I ever sell now. It is great playing but the worse pin decision ever. I know flippers that got 2-4 at $17k which pisses me off. They sold out in a day then a month later magically distributors had a few for sale.

Unfortunately they got you with the EHOH 40th play, if they don’t get you again with the Bond 60th they will just get someone else hook line and sinker.

Where’d you hear this? Gomez himself said distributors will set price.

500 Bond 60th editions announced was stupid. It is too high and is not based on anything meaningful. Wasn’t BMSLE 80 games based on Batman 66 plus something else?

Stern should have selected to make 69 games. Sixty pins for the 60 years of Bond plus seven pins for 007 designation plus two pins to the Bond estate. Admittedly, the last 2 were added to force total number to 69, in honor of Bond being such a horndog.

Hands down I do. I would be a day one buyer if the theme was more appealing to me. My understanding is if you call around distributors all have long waiting lists. That could potentially be BS, but that is what is being said.

At $18,000 this limited run Elwin game is a legit day one sell out. If Ultraman and Halloween can sell out in a day, so can the Elwin/Bond combination.

Hopefully Stern is successful with this model and they do right by the code for the limited run and we see more efforts like these out of them.

I assume Stern sells this game to their distros at $14,000 per machine, that means Stern grossed $7,000,000 on this machine. I wonder what their development and manufacturing cost will have been.

The infatuation with Elwin is becoming a little crazy.
Is he a solid designer? Yes.
The problem with the whole money grab is that it’s a single level game. This and the Beatles|Batman fiasco gives people concern.
Elwin game …… check.
Limited …………..check.
Multilevel creation with ramps like he normally does………..silence.

I could give the same argument that every game Elwin makes in the future is now 25k and limited made by Elwin and a multilevel playfield. At what point would people start to say, 25k? ??? (Even the quote unquote rich guys) and eventually say, Um I’ll pass fuck that.

Another question: what do you think everyone will say if he pumps out a pig that is just “okay”??
Does he get’s a free pass because it was a one off single level game that wasn’t his “specialty” ? Probably.

Ultimately the SLE concept has not worked out so great and I own one of them(full disclosure).

Finally, it seems we’ve all made the assumption that Stern is going to charge 15k to the distributors. Who knows, maybe Stern only charges 12k for example….

(I think Elwin’s stuff is really good.) - and ultimately if the reveal blows me away, I might be in. Just have to take out another mortgage. Lol.

500 is plenty rare enough to design a unique game with its own layout and rules. Stern is going to invest in something unique that they can only manufacture 69 of…why would they? 500 is probably the minimal run to make this make sense for Stern and it is rare enough.

I do laugh at how half the people say 500 is not enough and half say it’s too many. Can’t make everyone happy.

That implies 0% of people like the 500 number. I can believe that.

I take the biggest point be made is usually an SLE would be the same game as LE, only better. In this case it is a completely different design, so why would the old rules apply? EHOH40 retailed for $40k, and it was a full feature mech-packed design. this one is simpler and should sell for less. I keep coming up with a $25k price tag ($10k to distro’s). As to the quantity I’ve got to suggest …. 69.

But selling 69 games means the largest distro’s are allocated 1 each. The game should not be designed to make money, but rather as a reward to the chosen. Distro’s could sell it to their best customer at msrp or keep it for themself. BUT by having a msrp price established, distributors would be selling it for this amount (at least in near term). What if game turns out to be really fun to play and own? Many distro’s will choose to open and keep it in their own collections.

We’ve officially entered OCD land when the number of games they make is supposed to “mean something.”

500 is a nice round number and they think they can sell it. It doesn’t need any significance beyond that.

Also the Batman number was absolutely meaningless the math didn’t add up to anything beyond “we can sell 80.” You probably already forgot that their original meaningless announced number was 40 or 50 but they decided they wanted to sell more pinball machines.

They have one, I won a bet worth 6k at the time and was paid in full. Just ask people if they want to bet, use bitcoin and a third party.

Sold my IMDNLE and AIQLE.

Not “rare”. Haven’t even seen it yet.

Buy em up and flip em!

That’s the other thing, there will be ZERO flippers trying to buy these.

It will be a $$$ loser for those people

500 is a BIG BIG number for what they want to charge for it. Rumors are $25k.

And I say no F ing way they get $25k on 500 games. Not happening.

The actual number matters A LOT to the “collector”, of which I’m one of those. And Stern knows that too.

We are about to see what happens in the face of a recession, 500 pins at $25k? Nope.

I think you mean the most rare Elwin, *Bond* game.

Have none of you learned from Stern's Vault games? You know, the dead, retired games that will never be made again...

Also, long before Elwin, Whoa Nellie was sold as a single level, one of kind, designed by Dennis Nordman. After its run, Stern put the Whoa Nellie design into their "Private Label" category and re-issued them as Primus and Pabst Can Crusher. ...and TBD.

Hats off to Stern. They have us right where they want us.

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Stern has been trying to calibrate the quantity and price to keep the flipper profit for themselves since Metallica.

It’s what a business should do.

There isn’t a market for 1000 LEs for every title at the “new pricing model” of $13k

Bond? Looks like it. Rush? No. Many future titles? No.

So if they simply put a “nice round number” on what they think they can sell then we can expect an LE price reduction in the future for many titles

One of Stern employees I recall came from Upper Deck or Topps? The collectible trading card market.

1 of 10. 1 of 50. 1 of 200 etc etc etc.

At some point you bastardize the model and kill the golden goose when the “collector” realizes all they are really “collecting” is a dust gathering boat anchor.

The collector/player like myself loves the pinball hobby because it has both aspects of it. Not just buying a Wilt Chamberlain 1962 rookie card, PSA 8 graded, and sticking it in a box.

Price? Market has come down from $100k to $80k for a piece of “collectible” slabbed cardboard.

The guys that say this Bond game is going to sell all 500 quickly, at what price?

What “nice round number”? Stern doesn’t care what they sell at since they will get $15k from Distros

This is what Will Never happen....!!!....I put my SF2 on that....(jus in case.. )

So, education on "single level" please.....still could include, great shot geometry, pops, drop and traditional targets, spinners, magnet, subways (?).

Stern certain waffles on pre-production #'s (50-80 I think for BMSLE, 500-600 for Munsters LE, etc.), however, once they run, they've never changed # of that version, correct? They've never Vaulted an LE. Granted they could make different LE models, but believe this is true.

As stated prior, I genuinely liked the Franchi BM66LE over the SLE...think they only made around 200 of them, so all the stars lined up for me.

The current/ future state of fiscal matters is absolutely real (for everyone), and think it's going to impact decisions regarding luxury purchases, period (regardless if its a Pro, LE or whatever).Things going sideways in an aggresive way....

I own an EHOH 40, love the freakin thing, no "sparklegate" and highly doubt it will ever be a 15k game...if it is, I'll live with it (and don't care, as I play ALL my games). Zero regrets.

This Bond 60 definitely intrigues me, but more in a " is it a beautiful, bad ass player" kind of way. $5k on a toy I hate, is far worse than $20k on a game I love..(just me).

Think the 500 will blow through pretty quick, but agree they will be sitting in distro warehouses for potential lower pricing down the road.....

How low, how much, how good? Who the hell knows......show me the damn thing. Can tack on a trip to Expo if it's there, but they just aren't giving it up w this one....whatever...just pinball....

They have never in history cut prices, they won't now.

I can certainly see them cutting the number of LEs for "less Bondian" titles though. I doubt the 1,000 is set in stone.