(Topic ID: 143007)

Jacks Open start sequence

By BlueIrocGuy

3 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 7 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by BlueIrocGuy
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#1 3 years ago

Hi all!

I picked up a Jacks Open about a month ago and finally got around to cleaning it up and getting it running.
Well, running for a little bit that is!
Played it last night with no issues and now today, it's decided that it's going to be stubborn.

When I push start, I get the motor to run, total play meter advances, sequence bank and targets reset and it appears the JX relay is working. After all that occurs, the machine still shows 'Game over' and that's all that's displayed. Pushing start just repeats the process.

Since I'm new to EM's and Jacks Open, I've got a few questions since I've never seen or played Jacks Open before.

1) On this machine at power up, is 'Tilt' lit? It goes away upon pushing start and doesn't come back, I checked all tilt switches to see if that was an issue at first.

2) Does the ball need to be in place for the game to start or can it be out to have the machine at least get to the point of displaying ball '1'? Checking to see if it needs to be there when I'm trouble shooting.

3) If a ball is dropped into the outhole after the start switch is pressed, then it should close a switch that will activate the O relay. When O relay is activated, will it cause the motor to rotate and advance the switches? Mine doesn't in it's current state.

4) On looking over the starting sequence, when the start button is pressed, is the AX relay activated immediately or is there a delay before it goes? I don't hear the score unit runout switches clicking when the start button is pressed, but then again, the score reels are already at zero. If the score reels are already at zero, then is AX activated at all?

I've looked the pin over and haven't spotted any broken wires and have cleaned most of the switches (being careful not to mess with any gapping). I'm not an ace at schematics but I'll be working on improving my skillz!

Looking for thoughts on where I should concentrate my efforts on fixing Jacks Open from this point...


#2 3 years ago

I'll jump in on a couple of these....
1. Yes, the tilt light is usually on with the gottlieb pins when you turn them on. However, it should not come on after the end of a game.

2. Yes....the ball needs to be in the drain hole to allow the pin to reset, when the ball is finally ejected into the shooting lane it crosses over another switch that activates the scoring playfield

3&4. I would manually set the score reels to something other than 0's, have the ball in the drain hole and reset the game to see what all happens. Again, the start up sequence will not complete with out the ball being in the drain. With the game set up in this fashion before you start/reset you should definitely get the scoring motor running when you start a game. Also note, that depending on how the coin chutes are set up, one door switch will start the game and one may not. If the start button is not working, try both coin switches to see if it will start.

Others much more capable than I will jump in on this and have you going in no time! Good luck, have fun.

#3 3 years ago

Sweet!! Setting the score reels to a different value did the trick! After that, the start sequence went fine. I was looking through the start sequence routine in the Jacks Open operating instructions and it wasn't making sense for me. This was way too simple!

Thanks for your help, Sonora70!

Now it's time for a few games...

#4 3 years ago

Well, the issue is back. Pushing the start button goes through the sequence, but the ball doesn't get kicked to the shooter lane and the machine still shows game over. Resetting the score reels doesn't work, the ball switch in the drain hole looks to be working fine, seems that everything to the point of kicking the ball out is there....

Time to go down the rabbit hole!

#5 3 years ago

Here is some information from pinrepair.com which most likely applies to your machine era.

If the ball is in the outhole, the "O" relay activates. The "O" relay, through the score motor and a switch on relay "XB", will kick the ball to the shooter lane. Note: the "O" relay will not activate unless the bonus unit (if the game has one) is reset to zero (there is a bonus unit zero position switch).
When the ball re-enters the outhole after game play, the "P" relay kicks the ball back to the shooter lane. Switches on the "XB", "ZB", "P" relays and some score motor switches advances the player unit (if present) and player relays ("PBx").

#6 3 years ago

Hi BlueIrocGuy, oldpins +
I do not know about differences in Start-up procedure in 4-player-pin <-> 1-player-pin.
oldpin references http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start -> 1960 & 1970s Gtb games with Score-Reels. 4-player ? / 1-player ?

Here: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/emTips.html -> 1977 Gtb SINGLE Player Centigrade 37: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0462.html

BlueIrocGuy - Do You have a schema ? , a manual ? I think: Every pin should have its documentation (Gottlieb uses letters (G, P, whatever) over the years / models for different relays. The used switch on Score-Motor also is often "other" - from pin to pin. The ORIGINAL documentation is needed - everything else is "workaround / makeshift / remedy" (words from my german-english dictionary). Greetings Rolf

#7 3 years ago

Thanks again guys! I've got the schematics and manual for the game and I'm getting better at reading the schematics already.
The pinrepair link on the centigrade 37 start up sequence is the exact procedure for Jacks Open as well...

DirtFlipper suggested I check to see if the Ball Count unit was resetting to the zero position. It was not as it was still on the 6th position. So after a close inspection and lightly wiggling wires back there, I found one that was broken off, but still touching the contact, apparently allowing the pin to run from time to time. A quick resolder and it's good to go again!

Thanks again for all the help from the folks in these forums! So much to learn on these EM's!!

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