(Topic ID: 314214)

Jacks Open 10K Score Reel Circuit Board issue

By ChipS

1 year ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by ChipS
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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Score reel spacer (Sure Shot) (resized).jpg
Score reel missing spacer (resized).jpg
f1d48766faad576bbe0ccbd80bdbe515a18fa334 (resized).jpg
Gottlieb Decagon Score Reel Exploded.pdf (PDF preview)
Jacks Open 10K score reel (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

I recently purchased Jacks Open and after performing a complete tear down, I started playing it for the first extended period of time and noticed an issue: the 10,000 score reel advanced fine until it got to 90,000, where it typically got stuck. Sometimes it wouldn't get all the way to 9 (more like 8 3/4ths). The 100,000 light would come on but it would not advance no matter how many points I scored.

I played with the reel - manually advancing it. Same issue - it would bog down when it got to 9. I took the reel apart and noticed this issue with the circuit board. I can't confirm that the placement lines up with 9, but I have to suspect it does. And that the wiper is getting stuck at that worn spot, which prevents it from advancing.

Has anyone else ever encountered this? Can the board be repaired? Or does it need to be replaced?

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

Jacks Open 10K score reel (resized).jpgJacks Open 10K score reel (resized).jpg
#2 1 year ago

Looks like someone had repaired that burnt trace with solder and then filed it flat. That's a typical way of fixing it and it does work. Then it probably just got burned thru again. If you just reheat/add solder and file it flat again it should be good to go for a long time in home use.
It's starting to burn a pit on the opposite end, on the 'common' trace, so you should fix that too.

#3 1 year ago

I agree with frenchmarky - position 9 is always the toughest position to get a score reel past, so that solder bump on the board probably isn't helping any. It has to be flatter to reduce friction.

#4 1 year ago

Thanks - I'll give that a try.

I spent last night reading a lot of old posts about Gottlieb decagon and the problems with score reels hanging on 8 and 9. I came across this post by EMsinKC:

Quoted from EMsInKC:

This is almost always caused by too much tension on the 9 position switch. The switch puts too much pressure on the wireform that moves it, and the other end of the wireform rides on the reel itself, which causes the reel to hang between 8 and 9.

He keeps referring to the "WIREFORM" but it's not clear to me what part that is. Anyone know?

Gottlieb Decagon Score Reel Exploded.pdfGottlieb Decagon Score Reel Exploded.pdf
#5 1 year ago

He must be talking about that C-15263 plastic part (actuator?). The little arm on the left side of it in the drawing rides along some cutouts on an edge of the plastic score reel and can put some pressure on the reel if everything isn't adjusted correctly.

#6 1 year ago

I bought some thin adhesive-backed copper 'tape' but decided to just go with the solder on my Fast Draw. I had the replay score levels unchanged forever and it finally burned thru the trace corresponding to the 1000 position of the first replay score. I didn't try the tape but seems it could be cut to the shape of that trace pad, applied, and then soldered to the existing trace outside of where the contact points rotate. And cut the tape a little smaller than the pad so the switch points rise over the existing trace first and then the edge of the tape. I should have tried that but I am REALLY lazy and that solder will probably still be holding up after I'm dead.

f1d48766faad576bbe0ccbd80bdbe515a18fa334 (resized).jpgf1d48766faad576bbe0ccbd80bdbe515a18fa334 (resized).jpg

#7 1 year ago

Thanks!

I noticed another issue. My Jacks Open score reel is missing the washer/spacer (C-9167) that goes between the board and the wiper. I checked my Sure Shot score reel and saw it has that spacer. Perhaps the missing washer is causing the wiper to move too close to the board and that friction is stopping the reel?

Score reel missing spacer (resized).jpgScore reel missing spacer (resized).jpgScore reel spacer (Sure Shot) (resized).jpgScore reel spacer (Sure Shot) (resized).jpg
#8 1 year ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

I didn't try the tape but seems it could be cut to the shape of that trace pad, applied, and then soldered to the existing trace outside of where the contact points rotate.

Interesting fix!

#9 1 year ago

I have a dozen of these boards in my spares bin, could get you a complete reel. Allentown?

#10 1 year ago

Thanks! But I can't make it to Allentown. I've considered just replacing the board - need the spacer as well. Do you have the spacer (C-9167) also? How much you want for the board and spacer? Or the entire reel? Wouldn't mind having spare parts. PM me if interested.

#11 1 year ago

Chip, To me, that looks like a bit of a ham fisted repair that someone did. As French Marky commented, the solder is a common repair technique, but I think someone used 20 times more solder than should have been required. Before replacing the board, I would try to reheat and suck that solder off the board and attempt to repair it again using about a 1-2 mm drop of solder before smoothing and sanding it flat.

Has anyone tried one of the conductive paint products for this type of repair?

As for the 9 hangup, I've also seen the issue that EMs in KC wrote about, with that switch exerting too much tension such that the reel hangs up.
Lee

#12 1 year ago

Thanks, Lee! I'll try sucking up some of the solder and see if that works. I'm also wondering if the missing spacer allowed the reel to slide closer to the board, putting extra pressure on the wiper. I've reached out to PBR (they don't show it on their website) to see if they have the spacer in stock. Marco does, although it's $4.49. I may borrow the spacer from the 10's reel temporarily to see if it fixes the issue.

#13 1 year ago

Solder is commonly used to fix this problem but silver solder is harder and might last longer. It works well for worn rivets on stepper contact boards for example:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hearts-and-spades-always-a-ball-short#post-4519175

I think the missing spacer might have contributed to the problem as you suggested.

/Mark

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Solder is commonly used to fix this problem but silver solder is harder and might last longer. It works well for worn rivets on stepper contact boards for example:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hearts-and-spades-always-a-ball-short#post-4519175

That's good to know!

#15 1 year ago

In case anyone else runs across this problem, PBR sells the replacement circuit boards (A-15909) for $9.75 and the missing spacer (C-9167) for $.60. For comparison shoppers, Marco sells them for $14.99 and $4.49 respectively. As most pinsiders know, there is no comparison between PBR and Marco.

I'm gonna try to fix the existing board - just to see if it can be fixed. And if not I will replace it. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks for all the suggestions!!

#16 1 year ago

The missing spacer looks like it would let the wiper flex its entire length when assembled, instead of the center of it being locked down by the spacer. Less pressure on the contact points increases the possibility of arcing like that. I thought it was strange it was the 10K reel. The 10 and 1000 contact boards take a worse beating. You might want to check those too if you haven't.

#17 1 year ago

On Jacks Open, only the 10s and 10,000s score reels have contact boards. The 100s and 1,000s reels do not (or the reels on my JO do not). The 10s reel had the spacer and the board was in good shape - no issues.

1 week later
#18 1 year ago

It's fixed! I made several adjustments so I can't say exactly which one corrected the issue. Here's what I did:

1. I took a soldering iron and tried to remove a little of the solder in that spot. Then filed it flat.
2. I replaced the coil stop and all of the springs (A-9153, A-9151 and A-9158)
3. Also replaced the wiper (B-9166) with a new one from PBR
4. Cleaned and adjusted the switches.
5. Added the washer (C-9167) that was missing.

I put it all back together and manually activated it several times. It slowed a bit when it got to 9 (as they usually do) but ran through it flawlessly.

I then reinstalled the board and played several games. No issues.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions! Marking this one as RESOLVED!

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