That's very interesting as I got the same vortex entrance issue, will try soon to fix as you did, thanks!

Can anybody verify this with their JB? If I set 'max ex balls per ball in play' to 'off', lighting the extra ball lanes works, like the 'light ex ball' on the vortex exit. But if I set it to a number like 4 or whatever, then the lanes won't light and instead it awards 200K. This doesn't make sense to me. Bug?

So you are saying that if Max EB is set to anything other than "off" then if shuts EB off completely? I have always played with standard settings but I'll give it a try. I have definitely encountered a few small bugs in game code, most notably the bonus scoring.

One thing I haven't figured out for sure... I think the game might award 200M for an "EB" whether you actually record an EB or not. But, I'm not sure.

I've only checked the lighting of the extra ball lanes via the miniplayfield exit switch. With 'max ex balls per BIP' set to a value, it doesn't light an extra ball lane and only awards 200K. I don't know if this setting affects direct awarding of an extra ball. The separate 'max ex balls' setting doesn't seem to be associated with this issue.
Correction - awards 200M, not 200K.

Doesn't make any sense, why should having a max # of ex balls per ball in play have anything to do with disabling lighting of the ex ball lanes.

<<One thing I haven't figured out for sure... I think the game might award 200M for an "EB" whether you actually record an EB or not. But, I'm not sure.>>

I could see where this would make sense if you did exceed the max ex ball per game or per ball limits during a game, then after that if you won an extra ball it would award points instead of, well, nothing. But I haven't tested that. The above ex ball lanes issue is happening right off the bat after game start where I'm not exceeding any ex ball limits settings.

Great tip... I have that issue, too. Definitely will investigate!

Wondering if someone here can do me a favor? Can you run a solonoid test and tell me if two flashers under jackpots visor go off every time a solenoid fires?

I am troubleshooting and issue and this has me wondering about a short.

After further testing only LEDs do this .

LEDS only do the blink it in those two lamp positions and not others? I don't have any LED flashers so can't test it.

Seems to be all the ones near the visor .

someone with a jackpot must have LED flashers?

Would the OCD LED boards fix this?

Nope it doesn’t connect to the flashers . I just want to know if it’s normal or I have a problem .

Are ya using the exact same LED flashers there as in the rest of the game and with same number of LEDs in the lamp? Maybe it's an issue with how old they are or what brand. Or like a 'ghosting' type of thing maybe? But I only know about that regarding 6 v standard leds.

Yes same !

Pretty sure mine has LED flashers in that location. I will check for you but might not have an opportunity for a day or two.

If they are the flashers that I am thinking of they have an unusual trait in that when I shut the game off they glow pretty bright for several seconds after--only noticeable in the dark. I don't notice other flashers glowing like that but maybe the others are all incan.

Yep its only the two in the back left and right visor. Makes sense if they glow when you shut it off that you have the same "issue" which would be good haha.

If you aren't using the maximum brightness flashers available you could switch to two of those and leave regular lamps in the other two sockets. Or maybe use the four flashers and add a resistor to the sockets in series with the leds or in parallel (so resistor sucks up a little juice similar to when you tried combo of led+lamp and didn't have any blink) but I'm not an expert on that. Otherwise it doesn't sound like it's a problem with the game itself if everything else is working fine, probably just quirk with those lamps being on a little bit different kind of circuit than all the other flashers or that they're the only flashers on that circuit.

frenchmarky yeah so a actually as soon as I put one incandescent the problem is gone so since each side of the visor has two I have one led and one incandescent. Odd for sure but works for now .

Perhaps the main flasher circuit is essentially the same as the one the visor flashers are on but with so many more lamps in it, even equipped 100% with LEDs they individually don't end up with enough juice to exhibit the blink. Sounds logical to me.

I have small tower LED flashers in both eyes. Both flash during a solenoid test. I tried a couple of different solenoids. Interestingly, they flash even when the solenoids don't fire due to the cab door being open. As best I could tell the other flashers on my game, which are a mix of LED and incan, do not flash during the test.

Thanks

Same as mine

Found some useful tips in here regarding dialing in the vortex shot on Pinbot, same would apply to Jack*Bot.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hitting-the-pinbot-vortex-well-adjust-the-shooter-screws

Repaired my Jack Bot sound board after frying multiple ICs, RAM, ROMs and the ADSP surface mount chip. I socketed almost every IC chip on the board LOL, ADSP was the last resort and thank god it works after that replacement. If anyone has issues with an A-16917, specifically no sound and no bongs, I have your playbook and can likely save you some misery.

Was bored, and tired of looking at the faded cabinet artwork.

I think it came out surprisingly good, and took about an hour and half per side

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Very nice can you share the markers or paints used?

Good ol' fashioned name brand Sharpies the Mrs. had laying around. I didn't feel guilty doing it, as this one is an above average, but solidly player's condition game, and I just couldn't justify throwing on a set of Radcals.

I figured if it came out terrible, I could just wipe it down with 91% isopropyl, and only be out a few hours and a couple of beers, haha.

Man it looks fantastic, nice job, going to try it on my faded side. Thanks!

Anybody ever put a repro set of cabinet art decals on their JB? I got the faded-out reds too and was thinking about it but not sure how hard it is to put them on without screwing it up.

You've gotta prep the cabinet, otherwise they'll look like crap. It's not a simple project.

I've redecaled a cabinet before; roughly an hour to pull the playfield, rails, buttons, and legs; roughly 10 hours with a heat gun and scraper (albeit the original vinyl was brittle and only came off in small patches, I've heard people here say they have had it pull off in sheets, more or less), a couple hours sanding flat any of the residue I couldn't get off with heat and the scraper; an hour of prep wiping down any sanding residue; an hour or so meticulously measuring the decal placement and alignment; 1.5 hours placing the decals and flatbarring any bubbles, then an hour or so putting the rails, playfield, and legs back in and on the game. It was extremely tedious, and the replacement decals were a bitch to line up correctly and trim.

Hence, this player's condition JB gets the "good enough" Sharpie treatment. It came out MUCH better than I expected, as Sharpies apparently match the pantone colors WMS seemingly used on most games of the era. Would I do this on an original MM, MB, TOTAN, or other higher end game? Hell no!

So you can't just apply it over the existing artwork? Didn't know it was such a huge hassle, just to get my reds back, no way am I going to go thru all that. If mine was all torn up and gouged it would be a different story.

From my understanding, you can with Radcals, the material is apparently much thicker and has a "backing" material of it's own so you don't have to get everything perfectly level; oem decals are thin, and show high and low spots. I mean maybe if your existing cabinet and decals are perfectly smooth you could, but then you'd still have to worry about the lower decals "bleeding" their image through the new decals if they didn't line up EXACTLY, and the chances of the decals matching perfectly are literally almost non existent.

If you want to see the way a master does it, check out the HEP thread to see the way he preps a cabinet for decaling.

Just poking around I saw one maker that uses a grey backing behind the artwork and said it would block out discoloration or black marks or stains on the wood, so I thought maybe it would also prevent the existing artwork from showing thru it if you applied it on top of it. But still a lot of work, and I'm lazy.

Personally, I say let your game keep its aged charm. Half-assed decal attempts are noticeable to the eye and touch. If you’re willing to go all the way and make sure the cab is in primo shape before you rede all, then knock your socks off

Stumbled on something interesting - on a promotional photo of JackBot's playfield and the JB poster there seems to be a post and rubber ring in that miniplayfield gap in the upper left corner. Sure looks that way anyway, the only thing that should be visible on a Jackbot or Pinbot is the head of the miniplayfield mounting screw. Kind of an odd rubber size too, smaller than a standard post but bigger than a mini. Unless it's the largest size minipost rubber on a thicker minipost of some kind. Only pf pic I could find with that on it. If that's what it is maybe they added it to JB but decided to scrap it.

Some PinBot owners have balls sometimes falling thru that gap and onto the playfield but it's never happened on my JackBot.

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My JB has balls shoot the gap every once in a while especially when the play field and rubber is freshly cleaned. I always considered it a feature but maybe it's a bug.

I could see that rubber ring maybe being a 3/16" which is an unusual seldom-used size, between a large minipost rubber and a 5/16" for regular star posts. And mounted on a short 'skinny' metal post that screwed into where the mini pf mounting screw is in production. Oh well. On my JB the ball has never squeaked thru there once but on Pinbot it sounds like tweaking the position of the vortex ramp (and thus its exit point at the top) can help stop it if it is doing it.

....Ah-hahhh, looks like the post *was* used on the early production ones with the colored arrows but then they ditched it? But seems like nobody knows it was supposed to have a rubber, couldn't find any pics where a rubber was mounted on it. So if your JB has that problem of the ball falling out thru that gap you could replace the screw with that post. I don't think Pinbot has the mounting hole and screw there though.
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Will join the club in some weeks.
Bought a Jackbot from Holland and will come in Juin.

What leds white do you use as GI? Warm, cold or sunlight white?
What kind of rubbers: white, black or clear?

Really like the clear mini pf in here. Is this still for sale?

Thinking about adding some transparant pop bumper bodies.

Thanks for the info.

I like cool white for GI on this one due to the dark playfield and space theme. I think the white rubbers look the best but that's a little more subjective. I think the one on here with the plain upper plastic on was a custom job. Welcome to the club!

Hi all. Pleased to announce I joined the Jack Bot club last week.

My machine came from a container buy out of I think Italy. It had some work done here in the states to convert it to 120v and some new rubbers and cables were installed but the right flipper quit and it became too much trouble for the owner.

When I got the machine home I did some diagnosis (thankfully manuals were included). There were some bad solder joints on my Fliptronic II board from some poor rework. I got that patched up and replaced a fuse and the right flipper works!

The ramp raised just high enough for a pinball to squeeze under so I loosened the screws on the latch mechanism and re-seated it. Now the ramp pops up all the way with plenty of clearance.

The interlock wiring was ripped off the switch and shorted out (hand twisted and wrapped in electrical tape) so the playfield power was always on. Except when the twisted wires juggled loose on a nudge and the machine reset. I tested the switch and it seems fine so I crimped on new spade connectors and tightened the bracket and now it doesn't reset randomly.

I noticed that the flashers don't work and after poking around most of the 555 bulbs in the playfield are absent. I replaced those with some spares but still nothing. After some diagnosis of the flasher circuit and probing the power driver board it looks like bridge rectifier BR4 has failed open, or maybe capacitor C11 is dead, not sure yet. I'm planning to just replace both.

I have some damaged plastics, especially the mini playfield. The playfield itself is filthy but seemingly in good shape otherwise. I have a lot of missing or burned out lights.

I found replacement plastics and mini playfield but I want to combine the deep clean with the plastic replacement and an LED conversion because so many of my bulbs are already bad.

Before I pull the trigger what is the groups opinion on the Marco LED kit? It seems easier than sourcing all the bulbs myself but I'm not sure what bulbs are actually included. Does anyone have experience with that kit so I have a better idea what to expect? Is there some other kit I should be considering? I'm still digging through old posts in the thread and I'm sure this has been covered but if someone has anything to add I would appreciate it.

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Congrats and welcome to the club!

I don't have any advise on the prepackaged LED kits, but I highly recommend cool white for GI on this game--the cooler the better as it compliments the blue/black play field and space theme well. I installed the high output Comet Opmax on all lower GI sockets and Quasar on the more hidden upper ones with great results. Jackbot has excellent GI compared to many of the other WPC games which often require spots to bring up to modern standards.

You are also going to want non-ghosting for the status boards on the ramp (2) and upper playfield (4). I had to switch the yellow and green on the ramp lights since green LED is blinding and "light game saucer" is frequently blinking. "Mega Ramp" is lit very infrequently so the green works well there. I also had to swap the pinbot mask flasher on playfield center to a bulb with lower output as a standard 8SMD was borderline seizure inducing.

Any strategy tips on which order to collect the casino games?

I usually try to grab the slot when the keno card is empty as it seems to more often give the better awards in that scenario. Otherwise, I'll go for poker first since it's not as lucrative as keno or dice when deep in a game. I never waste a cheat on poker unless there are three aces lit since the added bonus isn't as great as with the other games.

I also try to cash in keno early if possible to eliminate the risk of accidentally hitting it on a fresh visor which ruins the opportunity to open the visor with an arrow shot.

Thanks! I'm still doing some research on kits or a DIY thing but this helps. I have a couple other pins so probably worthwhile to just buy bulk from Comet so I have spares. The cool white would also work in my T3 which has a few bulbs out at the moment. The previous owner installed some Comet LEDs and they look great.

Did you color match LEDs for the Keno board or just use cool white everywhere? Did you do LED flashers?

If you end up still having any LED ghosting on your feature lamps, I put one of the unofficial roms with the ghosting fix in my JB. Long time ago and don't remember where I got it though. It only fixes the regular controlled lamps, not GI flickering.

I tend to favor multiballs until I screw up the arrow or progress to the hard multiballs then reevaluate where the next closest points are so it depends what happens on the plunge and my try at opening the visor. I shoot for the arrow on the yellow standup because the feeds are friendly from either flipper. I line up Slot Machine while waiting for the arrow to come around. If I am shooting from the right I have Slot Machine selected. It's actually possible to backhand the Game Saucer so if I have the ball on the left I have Keno selected so if my backhand ends up in the Game Saucer I get the Slot Machine.

If I miss the arrow and have a mostly blank Keno board I go for the Slot Machine. It may be psychological but I agree the game seems more generous with rewards at low scores but maybe it is more related to the Keno board.

With a scrambled Keno board and no progress there's not much else to be gained but random awards so if I don't have anything else going on then it's Slot Machine. Even the 22mil can be a lot of points early on. The rewards from Slot Machine are unpredictable so there's no reason to build them up like the other games, just take what you get.

But if my multiballs went well then I evaluate where I made progress and choose a game based on that.

If I have been in the pops a lot then Roll The Dice. If I have cards then Pinbot Poker. If I am close to opening the visor the hard way then Keno.

If I didn't play Slot Machine first then I play it last because it's the one game that doesn't guarantee a double-or-nothing relight. I always take this option building up to the first Casino Run because it's easier to shoot under the ramp than up it. If I double then the next game is lit.

If I have already played a Casino Run then I would probably prefer Slot Machine first because it gives time to build up the other game values and the left ramp shot is required anyway. Shooting the left ramp builds up cards on missed shots and the upper playfield can feed pops for dice.

I'm not sure what you mean by "waste a cheat". The ABCs of Jack*Bot say you should Always Be Cheating

Cool! I'll have to look around for these custom ROMs. Reading Comet's site it sounds like flickering shouldn't be a problem in GI anyway? I guess I'll find out.

WPC GI naturally flickers whenever it is being dimmed during effects or in power saver mode in attract, so you're only going to notice it then. The flickering will be more noticeable using LEDs especially extra bright ones since they don't have the filament delay that a lamp does. Also LEDs in the GI will still be 'on' a little bit when dimming is at max, that bugged me cuz I like to play in low room light generally so I stuck with lamps in the GI. Even lamp filaments will glow a little at max dimming too but it is barely visible.

Something else I noticed the other day. I had the Visor open with no balls locked then ended up on Slot Machine. I landed on multiball, played it, drained down to one ball and expected (well, hoped) the Visor would open. But of course I had to reopen the Visor! I'm still not certain exactly what the game did. Clearly multiball qualification does not carry over after multiball. They can't be "banked". This is reasonable.

But did Slot Machine give me the "next" multiball in the sequence or just a two-ball multiball out of sequence? If I have one "easy" multiball left and I land on Slot Machine will my next multiball be "hard"? Is it possible to land on the Slot Machine multiball later in the game and have to play a hard multiball with only two balls?

Such an excellent ruleset and theme because on top of still not fully understanding the intricacies I don't even care about "losing" that qualified multiball. It's a space casino with rampant cheating. Hard to complain about being treated unfairly. That's Jack*Bot.

Hmm, interesting. I did read through the thread last night so this is starting to sound familiar.

Sounds like non-ghosting bulbs don't help with that and it can really only be done with custom ROMs or intermediate boards?

Looks like the OCD boards address this, probably easier than tracking down custom ROMs, but of course, $$$.

https://www.cometpinball.com/products/led-ocd-boards?variant=29579164975206

I don't think the GI issue can be fixed with rom changes, that's just how the WPC system controls them, thus the need for those OCD boards if you want to smooth out the GI.