Are there any credits on the credit unit behind the small window in the backglass? The replay button on the coin door normally won't start a game unless there are credits or someone has rewired the game to be on "free play".

Do either of the "Coin Switches" cause the game to do anything?

It's probably the credit switch on the credit wheel. It happened to me a couple of times on mine and it's pretty common if the start button doesn't work and there are credits. Pinrepair has a whole section about it

Assuming you are familiar enough with opening up the body, actuate the start relay manually to see if that starts a game. If it does your issue is in the circuit that actuates the start relay.

On the main relay board in the bottom of the body there will be the "S" start relay.

With the ball out, playfield up, and power on actuate the "S" relay and let us know what happens.

Does your Score Motor ever move? You can try giving it a push with power on (CCW) and see if it completes a cycle on its own (120 degrees).

Can you tell if ANY of the relays on the bottom board are energized? or buzzing?

Hi Bruce
great, You have the schema. Do You have the Manual ? For all who want to help - here is the startup-sequence: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/tip0480.html .

When working on the pin: ALWAYS pull the Line Cord ! Danger, do not touch metal - You could touch 110 Volt or 24 Volt or 6 Volt (touching would not be good for You).

I do have a schema BUT I do not have an JitB-Pin - I can not look into the machine to help "Search for XY" - (Example: where is the main fuse ?)
You wrote "Backbox lights up when game is turned on - but not the playfield" - this is common with "Gottliebs". The fuse "5 Amp slo-blo" in the 110 Volt line circuitry is good. Also good is the "15 Amp Fuse" for the lights in the backbox.
In the schema I see more fuses for You to check (blown or good ?):
One "10 Amp Fuse" for playfield lights.
Two fuses "2 Amp slo-blo" for the 2 coils "Target Bank Reset" (Attention: These coils are operated by 110 Volt).
One "10 Amp slo-blo Fuse" for both (2) coils of "Control Bank Reset" (operated by 24 Volt)
One "15 Amp Fuse" for many relays and units - it is the "most important fuse for 24 Volt circuitry".

I beg an owner of JitB to write WHERE the fuses are located in the pin. Bruce: Take EVERY fuse out and check if the fuse is OK or blown.
I am Swiss-German, my English is not so good - I do not understand Your "Troubleshooting done" - "Reset Game Switch" ?

AFTER You checked the fuses: I would put aside the problem "Start Button" and concentrate on "manually push the anchor plate of the "S" Start-Relay". The reason is -> Schema 20-E to 20-I: there are many switches involved in the circuitry - if one is wrong ...
The Manual (Start-Sequence) says: The "S"-Relay establishes a "Self-Hold-Circuitry" through an Switch-on-the-S-Relay and through the Score-Motor-Switch-2B - AND the schema (20-I and 21-G and 21-F) says -> through CLOSED Anti-Cheat-Switch (a Slam-Switch inside the Coin-Door) -> trough a CLOSED Bounce-Switch (probably in the bottom of the cabinet, Mech.-Panel) -> through the 15 Amp Fuse -> to the transformer.
So check Anti-Cheat-Switch and Slam-Switch and 15 Amp Fuse. Please report.

No luck ? (The "S"-Relay do not want to keep on pulling after you manually pushed down the anchor plate ?) Does the Score-Motor starts to run ? IT SHOULD - please report.
Look in the schema 19-E is the Score-Motor and 19-F and 19-G and 19-H there are many switches for to start the Score-Motor. One Switch is named "S" - a Normally-Open-Switch on the Start-Relay. This switch should close and let current flow to the Score-Motor.

MAYBE the cause for "Score-Motor does not start" is very simple. Look at the wires soldered on the MOTOR -> One short wire is going to a socket -> is the "wire-plug" plugged in into a "Female" AND another WIRE is soldered to that "Female" ???
When You manually want to turn the Score-Motor (NO ELECTRICITY): You pull out the short wire (and maybe there is a "Female" to store the short wire-plug SECURELY - because there is NO wire soldered on onto that "Female" ...).

Maybe someone writes where the fuses are located ? And Bruce, please report. Greetings Rolf

Hi Bruce
One important thing to check: The "Coin Lockout Coil" inside the coin door. It actually should be named "STOP-Coinlockout-Coil". When You turn on the game (main switch underneath the cabinet near the player): Inside the coin door there is a metal rod (horizontally) moved a bit to one side by that Coil (to let coins now go through = no longer beeing rejected) - You can feel the movement of the rod AND: many of these coils do hum a bit. Try out and report.

In the schema: 20-D is the Coin-Lockout-Coil. And 20-H is the Anti-Cheat-Switch. And then comes the Bounce-Switch, then the 15 Amp Fuse, then the transformer. A very basic circuitry. Maybe the Coin-Lockout-Coil is shot or a switch is faulty-open (or dirty-oxidated) or the fuse is blown or a (connecting) wire has broken off. It does not make sense to go through the "Start-Sequence" if the Coin-Lockout-Coil does not work.
We do not need the functionality of the coil - BUT WE MUST HAVE CONNECTION AND CURRENT TO FLOW. Greetings Rolf

If the game is getting 24VAC, the score motor should turn once you give it a push (obviously, the line cord must be plugged in for this and other tests).

If it doesn't, check the connections to the motor below. Many Gottliebs have a service feature where one of the lugs to the score motor is a "fast on" spade connector. It allows the service man (or woman) to remove power to the motor temporarily to check switch gaps.

However, if you have no power whatsoever to both the motor and any and all relays, I would suspect the 24VAC fuse. On most gottliebs, the low voltage fuses are over on the left side wall by the TILTs. The one at the back bottom is the main line fuse, and the ones under the playfield are 120VAC fuses for the Drop Target Reset or Trip Bank Relay Reset coils. These are 120VAC so be careful around them and any switches associated with the coils. These wires are usually vinyl covered instead of the typical cotton insulation.

Looking at how dirty the switches are on that trip bank, you may be in for what many will suggest as your starting point: Remove the bottom relay board and very carefully, file and adjust (re-gap) every switch stack. I don't normally recommend this for any beginner but when the interior has seen a lot of dust and weather exposure, it may be the only good approach.

Hi Bruce, CactusJack +
I would not do any "cleaning work" before the pin has shown (at least) a sign of life. I would never re-gap a switch without knowing: "THIS switch is wrong" (especially not on Gottliebs - adjusting gaps / blade-travel is an "art" on Gottliebs).

In here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jack-in-the-box-jumping-jack-club-get-the-right-hole (post-32) I asked for help - no luck until now.

The most simple thing to show "a sign of life" is the "Coin Lockout Coil" - according to the schema: You plug in the Line-Cord -> You turn on the pin with the Main-Switch (underneath the bottom of the cabinet, near the player) -> the Coin-Lockout-Coil should get current and start (and keep on) pulling. In the circuitry there are some "Male-Female" plugs and there are also some Switches.

If Your Coin-Lockout-Coil does not pull (after You turned on the pin) -> possible reasons:
The coil is damaged
Somewhere a wire has broken off a solder point or inside of the insulation of a cable the wire has broken
One or more switches are not closed (Faulty-Open = there is a gap between the points OR the points are oxidated and do let current flow).
One or more "Male-Female Plug" is not "plugged-in" correctly or the metals (points) are oxidated.

Have a look at Pic-1: "A" is the Coin-Lockout-Coil. "B" is the rod to be moved (by the coil).
"C" is an important switch, the "Anti-Cheat-Switch", it must be closed. It is made for: A rude player hammers on the coin door - hoping the Coin-Mechanism will close and he can play without money.
Well, if he hammers on the coin door -> this switch will open and make a "severe tilt" (turn off the pin). Look if this switch is securely closed and clean (also: wires soldered onto solder-lugs) ?)
IMPORTANT: In the Backbox there is another switch (like "C") -> also have a look at that switch.
Do not bother about the other things / letters (I already did some work for "further investigations" to (hopefully not to) come).

Have a look at pic-2:
"K" is the plug to connect the Coin-Door-goodies with the "Mech. Panel" (in the cabinet) - is it plugged in correctly ? Unplug -> use some sandpaper on the "Male-Plugs" and use a round file or something to make some scratches inside the "Female-Plugs". Do a bit of work - do not spend hours.
"L" is the "Bounce Switch" - it must also be closed all the time (another switch for "severe tilt ...).
"M" is my "Surf Champ 25 Volt Fuse 15 Amp"- Do You find a fuse with text "25 Volt Fuse ..." ? Is the fuse good ? Is the socket good ? Are wires soldered on ? Maybe some proud owner of a JitB tells us about the 25 Volt fuse (where to be found). Here again: Do not bother about the other things / letters (I already did some work for "further investigations" to (hopefully not to) come).

Please check: "A", "B", "C", (Backbox-Tilt-Switch), "K", "L", "M" and report.

By the way - "N" is a plug with two "Female-Sockets" - the Service-Jack for the Score-Motor: On one socket there is a wire soldered on and on the other socket there is NO WIRE soldered on. Is the male plugged into "Female-Socket with wire soldered-on" ? (If not: the score Motor has no connection and will never turn). Greetings Rolf

Surf-Champ-Coin-Door-01-Work.JPG

Surf-Champ-Mech-Panel-01-Work.JPG

Hi PinballFever +
I could not get to pinside.com the last 24 hours - maybe a server to Switzerland was broken down ?
It's a pity, somebody has taken away the Coin-Lockout-Coil (C-Lo-C). It is not a catastrophe - a pin can operate well without the C-Lo-C. I wanted to use the C-Lo-C as a "Test-Coil / Test-Relay". Well, we will use some other. Please write, do You have a chime like http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1277&picno=29335 (corner "Right-Bottom").
If You do not have a chime - well, we will use the "10-Point-Score-Reel of Player-4" - please write about the chime.

Your JitB looks quite dirty - do NOT work on the cabinet (paint etc.) etc. until we have some signs of life (maybe it is broken down and has to go to the graveyard).

This is the last time I write "Before working on the JitB: DO PULL THE LINE CORD, not only turn off the main switch !!!" (You do not want to make your wife a widow of any kind). Do pull the line cord, I mean it.

Look at my pic-1 (post-15) -> the green flashlight. This is my (simple) test-equipment for "Do I have connection from QQ to FG" ? I sneaked-in two wires into the flashlight (at the switch inside) -> If I put a piece of wire in between "Pic-1-H" and "Pic-1-J" and the flashlight lights up -> I know: That piece of wire is "good", the wire is not broken inside the insulation, I do have connection.

In a pin there are MANY connections - with a expensive meter You might get "false results" - showing: "there is connection from QQ to FG" - but actually the connection is "all the way around through the wiring (coil) of the transformer ..."
So when I want to make tests for to "test just that piece of wire": I either unsolder that wire off "one solder-lug" - or I cut the wire about 2 inches away of the solder-lug.

In the "Automotive Departement" of a store / supermarket You can buy "Male-Female-Plugs" for "Car-Electric". Very handy - with a pair of pliers You can "squeeze on" the plug onto the (bare) wire. With a "Cigarette-Lighter" I burn away a bit of the insulation of my wire and then sqeeze-on the plug. I do the same on the other end of the "cut wire". When I have done my tests: I simply plug "Male" into "Female" -> I again have my original wire / connection (with that male-female-plug in the wire, I don't mind). Look at Pic-1-F: The "Male" mounted on a cut wire. To the right of letter "E" You see the "Female" - and (hard to see): above letter "E" a "Gator-Clip" clipped on the "Female". On the "Gator-Clip" there is the wire "D" going to the cabinet (to do some tests).

The schema says: Transformer -> wire "Red" -> "Left side" of 15 Amp Fuse -> through the Fuse -> "Right side" of the Fuse -> wire "Red-Black" -> Bounce Switch -> wire "Red-White" -> to and through the Anti-Cheat-Switch. (This is plenty to test).

Your Post-16-Pic-2: Cut the "Red" wire (or unsolder the wire). The end of the wire (the side "into the machine") is Your starting Point (QQ). Your Post-16-Pic-1: The wire "Red" (25 Volt Fuse, bottom of the picture) is the other Point (FG). Please answer: Do You have "Connection QQ-FG ? (This is your first test).

The second test: Do You have connection "QQ -> the OTHER side of the fuse (with the "Red-Black-Wire" soldered on) ? Well, If not: the Fuse is blown or the holder of the fuse has broken. Please report.

On Your pics I do not see a "Bounce-Switch" on the Mech-Panel on the bottom of the cabinet.
Look Post-15-Pic-2-"L": This would be the candidate for my next tests (QQ->One-Side-of-Bounce-Switch / QQ->the-other-side-of-bounce-Switch).

And then (next candidate) Post-15-Pic-1-"C": The "Anti-Cheat-Switch" (QQ->one side / QQ->the other side). Greetings Rolf

P.S.: Post-15-Pic-1-"D" and Post-15-Pic-2-"P" is a connection with a jumper cable i made to connect Post-15-Pic-2-"O" (the "safe-Side-of-the-15-Amp-Fuse") connected with the coin-Lockout-Coil (Post-15-Pic-1-"A". I wanted to test "Does my Coin-Lockout-Coil works" ? (and to make a realistic test: I had to cut the wire leading to the coil).

I usually just clean and adjust every single switch so I can have a long time without troubles. Takes me a few hours but totally worth it.

I suggest that before you start on anything that you summarise what the current problems are before you potentially create more through adjustment and/or disassembly. I find taking this approach very beneficial particularly to ensure the current problems are identified & isolated. Then work through each of those issues to get resolution. The first thing is to get the machine to power up. Dirt Flipper has provided a tremendous start up diagnosis routine:

"Maybe the thing to do is to begin at the beginning:
- manually reset all score reels to zero
- manually reset all relay banks
- unlatch any interlock relays
- have a credit on the credit unit
- place the ball in the outhole
- press the start button
What happens?"
In terms of motivation as you work through & resolve each issue I can assure you it will be 'orgasmic' & you will return for more & more!!

Agreed. I hate the "clean every switch and hope it works" approach when in fact maybe only one switch needs adjustment. It's more satisfying to actually nail down the actual fault using logic, reason a schematic and a healthy dose of help from Pinside

What happens if you manually operate the S relay?

Although being in tilt mode is normal for a Gottlieb startup sequence of that era, I believe, I wonder if it won't start because one of the tilt ("anti-cheat") switches is open (coin door, bottom panel, underneath PF, in head)? Check those too.

Hi Bruce
"The problem Playfield-Lites ?": The schema shows: You turn-on the pin -> transformer gets current -> 6VAC is produced -> AAA: a wire transformer-> fuse-15-Amp -> wire-colour-Black-Red -> current can flow to Backbox-Lights and coin-Door-Lights.
BBB: a wire transformer -> fuse-10-Amp -> wire-colour-White-Red -> a "Switch on H-Tilt-Hold-Relay" -> wire-colour-White-Black -> playfield -> current can flow to playfield-Lights.
So check the wiring to that fuse, the fuse, the wiring to the "Jones-Plug" connecting Mech-Panel (in the Cabinet) and the playfield.
Check the "H-Tilt-Hold-Relay" and its switches - I say (I guess I am right): You push the "Start Button" -> the "H-Relay" should start pulling -> playfield-lights will be lighted. You write "pushing the Start button -> NOTHING happens". Try this: machine has current (Be careful !) - with a wooden stick or a screw-driver WITH INSULATED HANDLE (!!!) manually move the Anchor-Plate of the "H-Tilt-Hold-Relay" - Question: Does the playfield lights-up ?

"The problem - pushing the Start button -> NOTHING happens (?)": The S-Start-Relay should start pulling (when You push the Replay-Button) - so "woz, post-27" asks: what happens when You manually operate the S-Start-Relay (with the wooden stick / Screw-Driver with insulated handle) - the S-Start-Relay should close its own Self-Hold-Switch and the Score-Motor should start running.

Please report. (there are many switches in the line for to feed the S-Relay - we might use Jumper-Cables for to track down the faulty switch - but by now, we are eager to learn about "effect of manually operating the S-Relay"). Greetings Rolf

Manually depressing S should have operated the R relay and the Score Motor. Since nothing happened check the switches and fuse marked on the schematic below for continuity:

JITB Start.JPG

As Rolf mentions be careful poking around with the game switched ON as mains voltage is present on some switches/fuses in the target bank reset circuit.

No, pretty sure that one is supposed to be open under the playfield. The one inside the coin door, the one on the bottom panel and the one inside the light-box (head), however, should be closed (per the schematic if I'm reading it right). Those are the three he highlighted.

Highlighted switch is the coin door slam switch - should be normally closed. Check for continuity through the coin door connector to the rest of circuit.

The disconnected wires look like they may be from the coin lockout solenoid - check they aren't shorting against the coin door and that the pair of wires twisted together are making good electrical contact. I would insulate these wires as well with shrink wrap or tape.

440226-i.jpg

FWIW, tilt switches are 'normally open' and anti-cheat switches are 'normally closed'. So that one under the playfield is a tilt switch, and is OK.

Looks like it. The reset bar is pulled in by the two coils, and the bar lifts the relay armature plates back up. The yellow arms don't appear to be pushing down on any of the switch blades, so they look to be in the reset position.

Try the left and right coin chute switches. They take a slightly shorter path to the Start relay, so bypass some switches. If that doesn't work, then the 15A fuse, the Bounce switch, the Anti-Cheat switch and the two score motor switches in the path shown above are still suspect.

Ah, so they are. They shouldn't trip just yet, no. [Edit: yes, they will trip on power on - sorry]

They're at around 12E and 13E (QB is shown, then below it is T and H, and then ZB is a bit to the right).

The schematic shows the state following reset, first ball sitting at plunger, and the game powered off. So things like the Hold relay are going to be off, which makes it confusing when reading the schematic and considering what the game is doing when powered on. The 'normally' with respect to open or closed is with the game in this state. So it will show the Hold relay switches in the powered off state, when 'normally' they're actually the opposite when the game is powered on. (Yes, that is confusing.)

SB2 should be normally closed, so shouldn't need to be bypassed (if it's working).

These are the single jone plugs on the bottom board. So if you have it in the 1 coin, 1 play setting, then it's a direct path to S. (The other two settings require Y or X to be involved.)

Yes, they each get a path through R and H, which haven't energized yet.

Hi Bruce
Does Your JitB have a "Coin Lockout Coil (CLC)" ? It looks like a relay, mounted inside at the Coin-Door. Does it pull when You turn-on the Main-Power-Switch ?
The CLC is not needed - maybe a Pre-Owner has taken it away (completely) or has unsoldered one wire (leading to the CLC). Please report.

When the "S-Start-Relay" does not want to pull: I like to take a wooden stick (or a screwdriver with insulated handle) and gently push onto the anchor-plate of the Start-Relay (I simulate: "Start-Relay gets Initial-Current"). Try this and report.

A look at the schema: A wire BLACK runs from the transformer to "one side of Coil of Start-Relay" - the "Returning to the Transformer"-Line. There is another connection "Transformer -> wire RED -> Fuse -> wire RED-BLACK -> Switches / Wires ... -> the "other side of Coil-of-Start-Relay".

Look at (schema drawing) of Start-Relay-Coil: A bit to the right, a bit below is the (drawn open) "Self-Hold-Switch of the Start-Relay". Look further (down) towards the transformer -> the to the right -> up -> to the right -> Score-Motor-Switch-2B -> Anti-Cheat-Switch -> You are at the "24-VAC-Power-Line".

So, if the result of the test "wooden stick" is "Start-Relay does NOT PULL": We must have a look at these switches / wires - using Jumper-Cables. Greetings Rolf