Jack In The Box
Gottlieb, 1973Hi, Thank you in advance for the help. If I select 2 players, at the bonus cycle for each ball, players 1 and 2 get points. If I select 4 players, at the bonus cycle, all 4 players get points. The Q relay appears ok. The AS relay coils appears to work. I'm a newbie but willing to learn - has anyone got any ideas please?
Hi wheels08
I do not understand Your post-1. Here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1277&picno=29338 we see: At end of a ball either (Zero to 10) times 100 points are given to the Player or then (Zero to 10) times 1000 points are given to the Player.
How about a One-Player-Game ?
In a Two-Player-Game is the total given "(Zero to 10) times 100 points / (Zero to 10) times 1000 points" correct - but some of the points go to Player-1 and some go to Player-2 ? When Player-1 was playing ? When Player-2 was playing ? Can You reproduce the fault exactly ? Or are the points randomly given - sometimes split this way - next time other ?
How about a Three-Player-Game ?
In a Four-Player-Game is the total given "(Zero to 10) times 100 points / (Zero to 10) times 1000 points" correct - but some of the points go to Player-1 and some go to Player-2, Player-3, Player-4? When Player-1 was playing ? When Player-2 was playing ... ? Can You reproduce the fault exactly ? Or are the points randomly given - sometimes split this way - next time other ?
Did the pin ever function in Your possession ? --- Did You buy it with the fault ? Did You do some work in the pin ? Greetings Rolf
Hi Rolf, Thanks for the response - I wasn't alerted that you had.
When there are 2 players, at the end of the bonus points to player 2, the 10s, 100s and 1000s of both players change (up and down). The three reels are affected for all players at the same time. Same with 3 and 4 player.
At the start of a 4 player game, the first ball, this doesn't happen to players that haven't started. On the 2nd ball of the first player, this happens to all players.
I bought the machine working, and has been working for me for months. This is the first troubleshooting I've had to do on it.
Thanks.
Hi, When the "all player bonus stuff up" happens, the relays Z1 Z2 and Z3 are energised. The player cam steps once. Looking at the schematic attached, the Z relays are activated by SB1 on the control bank - however, the SB1 relay is not energised and the switches appear open. I cant see Z1-3 mentioned anywhere else on the schematics.
z1 to 3 schematic (resized).jpegCheck the adjustment of your player unit in the backbox. It looks like maybe those switches are out of adjustment? Looking at the schematic, that's where the reels are tied together.
If your Z relays are active, your score reels are likely advancing through the reset path rather than through the scoring path. If that's the case they're getting pulses right from the score motor to all four players:
Jack in the Box Z relays (resized).jpg
When this problem happens, do the reels stop at zero or can they roll past zero?
In any event, if your Z relays are active during game play you'll need to sort out why. Check the solder tabs of the SB1 relay switch and check for solder blobs, bare wires, etc. that could be shorting that switch. If the resistance across the SB1 switch leaves is just an ohm or so there's a short across the switch even if it looks open.
/Mark
I closed one of the open switches on SB1 - started the game and it wouldn't let me add a second player.
I closed the other open switch on SB1 and started the game. The motor kept turning and didn't start a game.
I removed the alligator clip and started a two player game. All same problem as before - after the bonus points, the ball kicks and all players got their scores adjusted. Does this mean that SB1 is not the problem?
Quoted from wheels08:The scores don't adjust after they reach zero.
To clarify, when multiple players' score reels start advancing together each reel can advance until it reaches zero and not more? If so that's definitely the reset circuit and not the scoring circuit. That would be consistent with the Z/Player Reset relays firing during game play. So you need to figure out why they fire after reset has completed. This is the circuit:
Jack in the Box Z relays 2 (resized).jpg
I think either the switch on the SB1 relay between the red-white wire and the yellow-green wire is stuck closed, or the SB1 relay hasn't tripped. The SB1 relay is a trip relay that stays tripped once it has fired. It doesn't relax back to its rest position like other relays. It needs to be reset mechanically by a reset arm that resets all of the trip relays in the bank at once.
As an experiment start up a multi player game and once reset has completed, trip the SB1 relay with a pencil or wooden dowel by pressing in on its armature. Does that let the Z relays relax and fix the scoring issue? If so we need to sort out why the SB1 relay doesn't fire once reset is done.
When the game starts, the Z relays are not energised. SB1 is reset and not energised, so I would have thought the circuit above is open and therefore no power to Z relays. Ball drains, bonus score added, ball kicks and then all players get score. The SB1 didn't energise throughout and not at the end of the game.
When I manually tripped SB1, it reset the scores and returned back to player 1.
I'm having trouble following what's happening.
Quoted from wheels08:When the "all player bonus stuff up" happens, the relays Z1 Z2 and Z3 are energised.
When do the Z relays energize?
Quoted from wheels08:When I manually tripped SB1, it reset the scores and returned back to player 1.
Does tripping the SB1 relay fix the problem with the multiple players getting scores?
I suspect that SB1 isn't tripping which is why the Z relays are energized during play. If SB1 doesn't trip after reset go through this circuit:
Jack in the Box SB1 relay (resized).jpg
If your Total Play meter works you can assume that the S relay switch and the two Score Motor switches are ok. That would leave the make/break switch on the ZB/1st Ball relay. It could be either that that switch isn't toggling to allow SB1 to trip, or that the ZB relay isn't tripping. If ZB isn't tripping you need to look at its circuit and figure out why. Work your way back until you find a culprit.
The Z relays only energise after the ball drains and ball kicks out. They are not energised while the ball is in play.
I manually closed the switch with red-white wire and the yellow-green wire - it reset scores to zero, and at the end after ball drain and ball kick, the score error still occurred.
ZB is energised during the game. SB1 is not energised during the game.
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