Good point. When i heard that, my first thought was:
"Oh shit, Thiel just went off the 'the delays are because of the damn suppliers!' script"

Though, theoretically, the game could ship without custom callouts, right?

True mines been in my basement for years.

Yes Jack has put out a single very good game but for people like me who can't get past the damn munchkin soundtrack that makes my ears bleed he has yet to make a game for me.

Comparing code to ST on release doesn't give me the warm fuzzies!

I've never played it so I have no basis for comparison in that regard.

Only doing it for local folks. Honestly don't have the time to sneak pin parts through. Way too much work. I can help you with color selection though.

A new color for example... Since we brought up ST, this is the color that SHOULD have been on it

Just watched the video, and I must say I was pretty damn impressed with what Jack and his team are doing, and how they're going about it. I thought WOZ was fun to play, but the theme did absolutely nothing for me, so there was zero chance I was picking one up. TH looks like a great layout, really nice looking art, and a ton of things to shoot for in it.
I'm excited to get to play it when it makes it's way to the Expo in October.

Wow!!

sorry, one game every two or three years is not a recipe for success

who knows if he will be around (and if spare parts will be available) in three years?

Ask the folks that paid into Predator or MG or AIW or RAZA if delivering a game in 2 years sounds like success?

I'm certainly no JJP cheerleader, but the guy said he'd build a new pinball machine.
(many have said the same)
He actually delivered.
(THATS a much smaller fraternity)

Everyone better pull their money out and ensure his failure. Who needs more pinball right?

</sarcasm>

Lol I had no idea David was reading what I was writing on the live feed... Could everyone in the room see it?

Are you positive about this? Breaking news again

Thanks for the link Damonator, great stuff!

December.....2016. Maybe.

Stern and JJ are the only companies in the world that have produced more than 1000 pins in the last 2 to 3 years. Pinball is hard work.

Really enjoyed the presentation. Thanks! You recharged my patience batteries.

I doubt you will have to wait that long - I suspect people early in the preorder will get theirs this fall. Depending on when you ordered yours it will likely be winter or even into next spring before you get it.

Hang in there.

LOL. tell that to everybody having orgasms over seeing the Magic Girl purplewood.

Stern is trying to catch up to JJP technologically. JJP is trying to catch up to Stern in terms of production speed.

You're right it's not a fair comparison. Stern had a 30+ year head start. But I bet if you looked at what Stern did in the first half-dozen years, it's a fraction of what JJP has accomplished.

Haha, just because they have a color display does not make them ahead technologically. The JJP system may be powerful but putting a huge, bloated PC in a metal box in the bottom of a pinball machine is a square peg in a round hole. SPIKE is far more elegant, easier to manufacture, easier to assemble, easier to maintain, easier to make profit with and so on. It can also do stereo sound and multiple color displays.

Boom!!

That is, of course, just your opinion and you are entitled to it... even though it is wrong. JJP is following the model that the rest of the coin-op industry had been headed since about the mid-late 2000's. I'm not aware of any major arcade platform today that is not PC based. For the record, Spike runs Linux so it seems Stern is headed in that direction too, but with their own proprietary PCB design rather than something off the shelf. Not sure how you come the conclusion it will be easier to build/assemble/maintain given all that

I believe JJP uses Ubuntu (a Linux based OS) as well. I don't know why it has to be a Stern vs JJP fight with some people. PS4 vs XBOX One, Microsoft vs Apple, etc. etc.

You don't have to choose 1 or the other guys - I sure don't. I get both...

It's just human nature to pick a side and defend it I think. Gibson vs Fender, Chevy vs Ford, weed vs coke...

I have a basement full of Sterns, classics and modern. I love them dearly. If I have just a few minutes for a quick smackdown I will fire up Tron or Metallica every time. They are awesome. But to claim that Stern is pushing the bleeding edge technologically is downright silly. They are working within a well established space and iterating based upon a proven formula. There is nothing wrong with that AT ALL.

I played Kiss and TWD for this first time this weekend at the NW show and you know what? They *felt* like a Stern. Super fun, fast and loud games... but I felt like I had played them before, you know? I also got a few games of the Hobbit it. It felt like nothing I'd ever played before. It was a completely new experience for me. And THAT is what I am looking to the JJP team to do: to bring a totally new game experience to market.

No idea how Jack maintains his sanity. Or Stern for that matter.

You have no idea how incredibly powerful and versatile that system is. All future pinball games will be running some variation of Unix. Including Stern. This means the hardware/software is basically independent of the game.

Huge, bloated? I seriously doubt many pc enthusiasts would be thrilled with our specs.

Besides, it got the job done, and considering Stern's been working on Spike since March 2011 at least, I'd say it did its job quite well, quickly, and efficiently.

A matter of opinion, certainly. You don't really explain how this is the case, though, so it's impossible to argue.

Than buying a pc? If you're making your own board, there's no way it's easier; it's just not possible.

? It's still a cpu board and has a lot of the same outputs it would seem.

I seriously doubt anyone is working on a pc or any spike board. All I've heard are complaints, but you have to consider how people talk to me, too.

Considering the length of development and the savings they may have actually put together, I'm going to have to laugh at this one for a few years.

Please, continue to enlighten us.

Has that happened yet?

Has that happened yet?

And it gets the MOST in my house, your point is?

John has a much bigger collection than you do. If all I had was three games and one was WOZ with the other two old Data east. Woz would attract more people than the other two.

everyone who runs their own business has an ego
some have bigger egos than others, but they all believe that they are right

Friendly reminder, this is a topic about JJP talking points at NE; More specifically: about discussing The Hobbit. I sure didn't come here to read more "JJP vs Stern" arguments. That's so... 2012. Please keep it on topic.

Yes, Hobbit, wayyyyyyy overdue........giving the prepayers another good ass reaming. Great business model JJP!

Pictures removed by moderator.

Some cranky people on here tonight. Must've missed their bottle feedings!

One of the better seminars I've attended in a long time, nearly 2 hours and did'nt seem like it. That is what this thread was about wasn't it, the JJP talk??

What came thru most to me is the true desire that they have to make a great game and to push the boundaries forward, I don't think anyone with any subjectivity would question this, these guys enjoy what they are doing!!

The Hobbit will be an amazing immersive experience, most likely surpassing WOZ, which will be no small feat!

They have used high tech automotive communication to eliminate nearly all of the switch and lamp wiring for simple RJ45 cables and at the same time moved the coil drivers right onto the bottom of the playfield to eliminate another mile of unneeded wiring. All of this increasing reliability and ease of troubleshooting. Not to mention the cost of the materials and the elimination of the need to fabricate nearly as much wiring by hand. Also, the base of the cabinet is basically empty. This makes it a lot easier to work on compared to that metal box in the bottom of the cabinet.

See above.

See above. Not sure how saving all of that material, manufacturing labor and simplifying the system wont save money?

No to both. Never said it did. I was making the point that Stern is not behind in technology. In fact they are ahead, even if JJP system is more "powerful" from the standpoint of graphics.

Oh well, it is only pinball. STLE sits right next to WOZ in my gameroom.

Maybe it is time to get over the spite and lift the hood on a new Stern and enlighten yourself. I am certainly not smart enough to do so and I know no one from Stern will be defending themselves here any time soon.

Just to bring this back to topic. I am looking forward to playing Hobbit. I love drop targets and the idea of 15 individually controllable drops is intriguing to me.

One of the reasons Mustang has stood out to me...

You talk about what JJP has accomplished yet they have put out one game with many issues.They had to stop the cool idea but a fail all the same of direct print cabinets then there was the light boards and playfield chipping JJP may do far better on game two but they have a ways to go

For the sake of our backs, I hope the backbox comes off easily.

Anyword about the playfield coming out like RFM?

I don't want to continue to derail this thread but it's important to not let these rumors fly. I've had WOZ now for quite awhile. The ONLY issue I've had with the game is that the crystal ball became unglued from its base. That's it. It took me two minutes to fix it. No playfield chipping. No light board problems. Nothing. The game has been heavily played and has not given me any problems. My LE number is right in the middle of production. The game is as reliable, if not more reliable than any other game made, and based on my experience working in tournaments with NIB Sterns, a lot more reliable than a new Stern.

I honestly don't understand the JJP hating. I'll never get why people seem to look at pinball manufacturers like sports teams and have to root for one side or the other. I don't hate Stern. I like some of their games. Others I'm not fond of. But I don't have a desire to go around trash-talking their every move. I don't see how that helps anybody

But hey, if this rivalry results in more innovation, that's cool. I just hope it can be more of a friendly rivalry than anything else.

I don't understand JJP fans tearing down Stern to build up JJP

You know, I'm starting to change my opinion about you. I used to think you just crapped on JJP whenever you posted. But these were two of the most clear-headed and (dare I say) mature things you've ever said. And it lends more weight to your opinions in the future (IMHO). Bravo!

And here's another person I've been starting to agree with more and more (which scares me).

I don't get why JJP fans do that either. I do think that Stern is a little more cheaply built than JJP machines. But you know what? My LOTR and ACDC are both incredible machines, and I love them both as much as my WOZ. I love my Williams machines, too. The more the merrier. Why ANYBODY wouldn't want more pinball companies (besides Gary Stern, of course) is a mystery to me.

If you don't mind waiting, nothing wrong with that. And what JJP makes is pretty. I just dunno why Jack even gives estimates on delivery dates. He's just setting some people up for disappointment. Why not just release status updates, explain set-backs and it is release when it is released?

People that are fans for WoZ obviously praise it and believe it was worth the wait. Estimates are only going to cause disappointment.

It is no secret making pins is tough.

Its the knee jerk reaction to the JJP owner who feels those attacking are Stern lovers. Stupid.

We should be able to be critical of either and compare (if we choose to) without being lumped into one camp or the other. I do feel there are those that clearly have an ax to grind against JJP and while I am not a fan of over moderation they should be muted in JJP threads if all they do is post venom. At the same time its annoying to see the JJP fanboys lump any criticism into that other camp so I guess its a never ending cycle.

Pretty childish and sad.