(Topic ID: 129801)

Jersey Jack @ NW Pinball Talking Points


By Damonator

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 992 posts
  • 165 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by NJGecko
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders

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There are 992 posts in this topic. You are on page 19 of 20.
#901 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I got one too.

join the club....

#902 3 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

join the club....

I did too. It's not very exclusive...

#903 3 years ago

Feeling left out....

12
#904 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

JJP supporters...

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Similar threads for Stern haven't been created...

I think there's several differences that drive the different tenor of the discussion:

1. Stern has customers, yes, but not the kind of "defenders of the faith" that you refer to as 'JJP supporters.' There's plenty of criticism of Stern. What you DONT see NEARLY as much of is the instant and reflexive defense (even of the sometimes indefensible) that you see whenever JJP is criticized. No one feels the need to religiously refute any and all criticism of Stern.

2. Another difference is you don't see Gary coming on here and publicly trashing JJP, pinside itself AND even getting into pissing matches with individual posters. And he certainly doesn't feel the need to PM folks to continue the bitching out of the public eye. Any ONE of these activities would earn some ire, but add all together and you get the very different way JJP is treated.

3. Lastly, there's an issue of honesty. JJP (and some of their supporters) subscribe to the concept that "the end justifies the means." In other words, When Jack finally delivers a game- all the broken promises, the subterfuge and dare I say lies are forgiven. That may sit fine with some folks (generally the ones that have waited years for delivery), but it doesn't sit well with everyone.

#905 3 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Feeling left out....

Me too. Jack, PM me an invitation to come down to the factory and play a whitewood of Pat's game (Hi Pat!).

-1
#906 3 years ago

Believe the JJP critics/trolls/haters/etc have made their points abundantly clear and are no longer adding anything to this thread other than negativity. The horse is dead. No need to keep beating it.

#907 3 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Believe the JJP critics/trolls/haters/etc

Etc meaning realists??? Lol

#908 3 years ago

If Jack cares enough to take the time to pm people, what's so wrong about that? To me it shows that he cares. Some of you complain if he speaks his mind on the forum, then you complain when he takes the time to talk to you personally instead? (probably the the same lot who think jack talk about everybody here when he says pinside )

To those of you who have to brag about having had a pm from jack, here in public, it says a lot about your character when you brag about something that is supposed to be private.

At least it helps me to distill out who to take seriously when they take jabs at JJP

Constructive criticism can be a great thing but I have not seen anything close to that in this thread, just pointless jab after jab.

Maybe it is not the right definition of being a troll, but to me it is close enough

Looking forward to the negative vote from some of you on this view

PS! Have a great weekend and go play some pinball

#909 3 years ago

A late delivered great Hobbit will hurt JJP

However...

A shit on time delivered Hobbit could have killed JJP

#910 3 years ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

A late delivered great Hobbit will hurt JJP
However...
A shit on time delivered Hobbit could have killed JJP

I think you are spot on - after expo reveal they knew they couldn't go with that or it would be a disaster.

#911 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I know it was a jab. It was intended to be as you and several others have been taking shots at JJP for over two years now. Annoying isn't it? Now imagine reading those types those comments for two years...That's what many JJP supporters have been dealing with here.
The hateful and rude comments became so bad that the mods created a WOZ thread where nothing rude could be said about the game. Similar threads for Stern haven't been created as JJP supporters are not going into those threads with their only intention being to stir the pot.

Let's not rewrite history Tank ! You have talked more shit and putting down the others guys since forever . The Fact is JJP was born out of hate for the other guys and has never stopped once !

I love when the offenders play victim.

-1
#912 3 years ago

Let's do this. Let's not get to 20 pages on this thread until we get a real update. Can we all do that? Just stop posting the same feelings for and against Jack? If you have a thought on this matter there are 19 pages of that thought already expressed. Go back and read them. Come on guys, just stop!

#913 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Let's not rewrite history Tank ! You have talked more shit and putting down the others guys since forever . The Fact is JJP was born out of hate for the other guys and has never stopped once !
I love when the offenders play victim.

I have purchased two NIB Stern games in the past 3 years (including one about a month ago) and compliment them often so stop spreading lies about me. You on the other hand have nothing good to say about JJP. Its jabs, jabs, jabs.

Also, JJP was born out of hate for the other guys? Wow. Lol! There are other people in this world that want to build pinball machines and its not a requirement for them to work for Stern.

-1
#914 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I have purchased two NIB Stern games in the past 3 years and compliment them often so stop spreading lies about me. You on the other hand have nothing good to say about JJP. Its jabs, jabs, jabs.

Dude stop! Everyone stop! Fighting each other over pinball? Really? Jack doesn't need defenders. He doesn't care about the haters. There's a big world out there with real conflict and you guys get all heated up over JJP and Stern? Do you realize how silly it all looks. Ok everyone stop. Let's not get to page 20!

-3
#915 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I have purchased two NIB Stern games in the past 3 years and compliment them often so stop spreading lies about me. You on the other hand have nothing good to say about JJP. Its jabs, jabs, jabs.

You are really confused about what you post. Almost all of my Jabs have been directed towards people that post like you.

-9
#916 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

You are really confused about what you post. Almost all of my Jabs have been directed towards people that post like you.

Are you done? What will happen when you prove your point? Nothing. This is pinball man. Pinball. Think about that. Both of you. Act like grown men!

#917 3 years ago

You've posted 3 times in the last 15 minutes...

#918 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

You are really confused about what you post. Almost all of my Jabs have been directed towards people that post like you.

I don't want to argue anymore. While we disagree on pretty much anything JJP related I do appreciate reading / watching your other helpful posts and videos. There I said something nice damn it, lol

#919 3 years ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

A late delivered great Hobbit will hurt JJP
However...
A shit on time delivered Hobbit could have killed JJP

So what do you think a shit, late delivered Hobbit would cause? This? Because that's what expo was..

All the defenses about 'they had to improve the game' ignore the game was already late.. and still isn't done. Forget about production for a minute.. the game itself isn't done yet.. a year+ late. The rework didn't cause the initial delays, the rework alone isn't responsible for the additional delays.

I get (and agree) - doing the game right and reworking it was the right thing to do. But it is not a 'get out of jail free' card for the past delays or the current delays with no confident timeline.

-6
#920 3 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Are you done? What will happen when you prove your point? Nothing. This is pinball man. Pinball. Think about that. Both of you. Act like grown men!

RobT says something nice about you and now you are the voice of reason all of a sudden? You should go back to buying friends with free money give aways.

#921 3 years ago

Anyone know how to get a Fix it Felix arcade machine?

#922 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

RobT says something nice about you and now you are the voice of reason all of a sudden? You should go back to buying friends with free money give aways.

Just so much wrong with this post.

#923 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

I love when the offenders play victim.

Me too Jim, so you might want to stop playing the victim.

#924 3 years ago

Endless loop.png

-7
#925 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Me too Jim, so you might want to stop playing the victim.

Don't you have to do some ass kissing ?

#926 3 years ago

I can see why Jack PM'd everyone. His PR strategy now is avoid a confidence crisis. New pinball guys - makers, moders or buy/sell is all word of mouth confidence to make pinball work. Pinside, good or bad, is where that confidence barometer happens. Not just in customers hanging in there or new customers, but with vendors and all the rest. Unless you can self fund small batches (Spooky), or have a factory without the big cost of carry to fund it (Heighway), all makers are having to face that time-delay, cost of interest during the time-delay hurdle. Any lost confidence that causes a vendor to hesitate or a deposit not to be made, cost time, costs money.

I cancelled my day 1 THSE order. I needed the money for something else family related, I can get a TH later - I got in before the price hike, and had the editions with more eye candy, etc. But now I have the option of what time to get a game, its not JJP's option any more for me. Maybe I'll get back in as a day 1000 order (unfortunately, that's not long from now).

I was a small business lender about 30 years ago. There's lots of red flags and risks for any startup lending. Mostly time to turn a product into cash is the killer variable - its not a supplier, or marketing, but not enough cash stored up at day 0 for unexpected delays. Delays cost you $ for interest, especially a factory of pinball, with unique tooling and millions of $ in parts on the shelf.

JJP had all the start up costs with WoZ and the game took at least a year longer, so a year carry of $ that were unexpected. Ok, but TH doesn't need to build a new factory, and all new tools, so it should take < 3 years, so we'll have some ability to pay down some of that b/c the cash will start flowing sooner this time. But no, its an even longer delay, so the carry interest is even a bigger number , because the debt pile is much bigger than it should be. We customers don't have a contract to enforce a date of shipping, but a bank has a contract to enforce debt payments.

Whatever the reason for product not turning into cash, your control or not, that's all smoke - the only question and the only thing you can control, is whether there is enough cash to afford the delay. If you can't cover the interest payments, you need a second lender or a shark tank guy to swap cash for your equity position, and then they get some of all the future sales. Getting a new credit card to pay off your old card works until there are no new card offered. The Elaut thing doesn't have to be true, if its out there, and a lender starts to have doubts, your rate will go up or you wont get any loan at all.

The only question is how much longer can Jack finance the interest carry cost? If I read his post up above right, Jack has news he can't share yet, my gut and my history book says, that usually means new money to give the capital to get it done, wipe out the high interest payment, but giving up a % chunk of ownership.

-1
#927 3 years ago

So new money could have been promised but it is not yet in hand ? And nothing can happen until it is ? So just keep visiting the shows picking up new orders ?

#928 3 years ago

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

#929 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

The Fact is JJP was born out of hate for the other guys and has never stopped once !

Very interesting statement. Very early on this was mostly true. Today..I'm not so sure.

#930 3 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Same to ya.

#931 3 years ago

ng7qq.jpg

#932 3 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

I can see why Jack PM'd everyone. His PR strategy now is avoid a confidence crisis.

With people like me it would backfire big time.

#933 3 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Are you done? What will happen when you prove your point? Nothing. This is pinball man. Pinball. Think about that. Both of you. Act like grown men!

I'm with you Kaneda. The people who waste their time posting jibberish on this website are quickly outnumbering those who are mature enough to realize we're talking about pinball. I can't believe how immature some of these Pinsiders are- it's why the last place I look to do any pinball business is Pinside. I can't trust grown people who act like children..

#934 3 years ago
Quoted from yonizzell:

I'm with you Kaneda. The people who waste their time posting jibberish on this website are quickly outnumbering those who are mature enough to realize we're talking about pinball. I can't believe how immature some of these Pinsiders are- it's why the last place I look to do any pinball business is Pinside. I can't trust grown people who act like children..

Then leave. Why are you here listing the non pinball jibberish above?

#935 3 years ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

Very interesting statement. Very early on this was mostly true. Today..I'm not so sure.

Born means then. You are not born then and today?

#936 3 years ago

Oh no... not again!

IMG_5935.jpg

-6
#937 3 years ago
Quoted from yonizzell:

I can't trust grown people who act like children..

The ones you can't trust are the ones who say nothing !

#938 3 years ago

See...now I think it's exactly the opposite. I'm wary of people who won't shut up...they're clearly trying to convince you of something that's not true. The smart people shut up and let the facts speak for themselves.

#939 3 years ago
Quoted from shlockdoc:

Born means then. You are not born then and today?

Read the whole sentence. He said "it has never stopped since".

#940 3 years ago
Quoted from MrDo:

Oh no... not again!
IMG_5935.jpg

Yep, big red flag if I were Jack's lender (and all of you have lent money if you are owed a machine). For those that say paydex and D&B reports are bogus, my suggestion as a former small business lender - don't ignore these!!

This paydex score means unpaid invoices. As a lender, you'd think cash flow or vendor disagreements. Every day that passes with an accounts payable invoice, lowers the paydex, and increases the red flags. 150 days past due is way worse than 60 days past due, and every day that passes will keep lowering that paydex rating. You soon see a freeze on your line of credit, likely limiting financing available for construction parts and labor.

Jack has said someone is going unpaid, but all others have been paid - the "chicago pinball mafia" holding out on supplying something, based on a one-of-a-kind tool etc. does not justify late payments. The paydex declines show aging payables, so the creditor (JJP) will continue to get lower and lower scores.

#941 3 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Jack has said someone is going unpaid, but all others have been paid

Probably the guy who shipped him crappy backglasses. I wouldn't pay him either.

#942 3 years ago

I haven't heard who is doing the glass work for Jack. Shit happens all the time with manufacturing. I had glass failures in 2013 & 2014 from my printer. I replaced glass & took a hefty loss on a bunch already shipped around the world. My Australian distributor was surprised when I did replace & ship glass replacements. Lucked out in Marco Specialties my USA Distributor had no problems so far. My printer had to scrape & re ink a bunch of glass. I believe it was either the glass wasn't cleaned or prepared properly or a adhesion prep or promoter not used.

#943 3 years ago

Any chance of this talking point video re-surfacing? I cant believe there is a 20 page long discussion based off a video clip thats hasn't been available since the first few pages.

#944 3 years ago
Quoted from BigDan:

Any chance of this talking point video re-surfacing? I cant believe there is a 20 page long discussion based off a video clip thats hasn't been available since the first few pages.

You must be new to Pinside. Head on over to the Hobbit Update thread if you want to discuss cars.

#945 3 years ago

Well, there are no updates so people are talking about what they did with their hobbit money.

#946 3 years ago
Quoted from BigDan:

Any chance of this talking point video re-surfacing? I cant believe there is a 20 page long discussion based off a video clip thats hasn't been available since the first few pages.

Here ya go...

#947 3 years ago

Thanks for posting

#948 3 years ago
Quoted from BigDan:

Any chance of this talking point video re-surfacing? I cant believe there is a 20 page long discussion based off a video clip thats hasn't been available since the first few pages.

Oh lame, WTF, it got deleted? Or does Twitch not archive things for that long?

It was a great talk, David and Butch were awesome, it was totally worth watching just for their bits alone.

Edit: Oh good, YouTube above. Check it out, they did a great job.

#949 3 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

I can see why Jack PM'd everyone. His PR strategy now is avoid a confidence crisis.

Aren't you the guy who's been telling everyone that everything is cool with JPop? Is this ironic or apropos? I can't tell.

#950 3 years ago

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