(Topic ID: 129801)

Jersey Jack @ NW Pinball Talking Points


By Damonator

3 years ago



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  • 992 posts
  • 165 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by NJGecko
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders

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#851 3 years ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

Personally I think Jack should hire a PR person to go on the road and Jack should stay in the factory to keep an eye on things. This especially since production hasn't started yet. Jack needs to stay on his staff's and suppliers' back.

??

I think Jack needs to hire a Production Manager, not a PR person.
Shipping machines is the only "PR" he needs right now.
Oh... and cancel his internet access until the 100th machine ships without defect.

-1
#852 3 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Jack many might think you should have responded to this post as well.

i think the only post he should come here to respond to are the ones that go something like this,

"Where is The Hobbit?"

The last "update" I recall was picture of a box of backglasses and everyone was wild with enthusiasm.... as if that was tantamount to machines rolling off the assembly line...

And then, of course, the bitter irony of him later lamenting the fact that the QC was for shit on the BGs! yikes.... so much for the one brief shining moment on the last 6 months....

This "exciting update" photo is starting to remind me of another "exciting update" photo
TH_glass.jpg

skitb_update.jpg

#853 3 years ago

C'mon Jack, don't you think it's ridiculous that you or someone comes in here posting under your moniker to defend the brand against trolls, while not offering any positive news, updates or information for us to think about, which is what leads to the trolling in the first place - since all we can do is speculate on what Jersey Jack Pinball is doing right now, due to the well known poor public relations that continually occurs? You're slowly making me want to go from a believer and supporter into a hater and troll myself. Let's get it over with today. How about a REAL update on what's happening and what people can expect?

-4
#854 3 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Wow, what a shock, another member who just joined today to Hate on Pinside....welcome....

I recently heard TH wasn't shipping for at least 8-12 months.

Jack, care to respond to this?

#857 3 years ago

If Jack had not taken peoples money and just built the Hobbit on his dime and time , Jack would have no issues !

#858 3 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

C'mon Jack, don't you think it's ridiculous that you or someone comes in here posting under your moniker to defend the brand against trolls, while not offering any positive news, updates or information for us to think about, which is what leads to the trolling in the first place - since all we can do is speculate on what Jersey Jack Pinball is doing right now, due to the well known poor public relations that continually occurs? You're slowly making me want to go from a believer and supporter into a hater and troll myself. Let's get it over with today. How about a REAL update on what's happening and what people can expect?

Wouldn't that be epic if it was only a troll who made a JJP username and was posting under it having everyone fooled. It would actually give me some relief if that was the case. It would definitly go down as the best troll job on pinside ever

-2
#859 3 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Wow, what a shock, another member who just joined today to Hate on Pinside....welcome....

Says the guy who hates on pinside! LOL LOL
#wheresthehobbit

#860 3 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

I recently heard TH wasn't shipping for at least 8-12 months.
Jack, care to respond to this?

Who did you hear that from?

12
#861 3 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Who did you hear that from?

Crazyjackbannana

#862 3 years ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

Personally I think Jack should hire a PR person to go on the road and Jack should stay in the factory to keep an eye on things.

Jack & Co., send me some gameplay/interview/other videos. I'll edit them very nice and fancy and we can put them out a little bit at a time. I'll do this free of charge.

EDIT: ok, nevermind... Just got a PM saying "Help is part of your name. Help Robin fix Pinside. That needs a lot more help than JJP. We are fine....really!"

Yea... can't really imagine why anyone would suggest JJP needs more help in the PR dept.... they got it goin' on.

-6
#863 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

If Jack had not taken peoples money and just built the Hobbit on his dime and time , Jack would have no issues !

I'm sure Jack along with everyone else knows that the prepay model is dead. But it worked fine for WOZ and *would* have worked fine for Hobbit if it weren't for JPop and SkitB poisoning the well.

#864 3 years ago

Would have worked fine the game wasn't so delayed.

#865 3 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

But it worked fine for WOZ and *would* have worked fine for Hobbit if it weren't for JPop and SkitB poisoning the well.

Seriously ? Take peoples money saying the hobbit with ship in 2014 and it is almost July 2015 and no game, you call that worked ?

-3
#866 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Seriously ? Take peoples money saying to will shit in 2014 and it is almost July 2015 and no game, you call that worked ?

JJP did deliver with WOZ. They shipped all 1000 LEs and 1000 standards. The Hobbit would already be out had the redesign never occurred. Thankfully it was delayed and a lot of improvments have been made.

Hey, at least when The Hobbit does finally ship owners won't have to wait 3 years for complete code, lol.

#867 3 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

I recently heard TH wasn't shipping for at least 8-12 months.
Jack, care to respond to this?

I've always supported JJP 100%, but I'm a realistic thinker & this is a legitimate question.

The simple fact remains that if production begins in late August (in time for JJP Open house), it will take 6-12 months to produce the 1500 preorder LEs. You can also count on standards being built along the way to infuse some new money, just like they did during WOZ production. And you can also count on various unpredictable supply & production issues that will commonly occur over time. That's how I see it at least.

I firmly believe that people (like me) who got in late at the end of the preorder line will not get their Hobbit until Spring 2016 at the earliest. That's 8 to 12 months from now.......and for some, that honest reality is an extremely difficult pill to swallow. Sure the game will be phenomenal & ship with nearly complete code because of the delays, but even I have my limits when it comes to waiting.

Tired of THINKING about the Hobbit. I just want to PLAY the Hobbit.

#868 3 years ago

If you read my post, I said *would* have worked on the Hobbit. If prepay wasn't so broken now, JJP could have started taking prepays on JJP3 or JJP4 to easily get the ball rolling on Hobbit production. Then as production begins, more orders roll in and everything moves along as it should. But my guess is that JJP had to show off the Hobbit at shows a little longer to get more orders...or get a loan. Or maybe it wasn't about money at all and was just because of other stuff. I don't have any inside information so it's just speculation.

But I'm confident that Hobbit production will start soon...and JJP will move away from the prepay model as soon as they can.

And yea - the Hobbit is late. It's pretty common knowledge that the game shown at expo last year was weak...so they had to go back and redo it in order to make it awesome. That created delays. I'd much rather wait longer and get a great game instead of a mediocre one. I wish Stern was as open to initial feedback as JJP is - maybe then I would buy more Sterns.

#869 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

JJP did deliver with WOZ. They shipped all 1000 LEs and 1000 standards. The Hobbit would already be out had the redesign never occurred. Thankfully it was delayed and a lot of improvments have been made.
Hey, at least when The Hobbit does finally ship owners won't have to wait 3 years for complete code, lol.

Honest question: Do you truly believe TH would have shipped on time without the bad feedback at expo and subsequent redesign?

#870 3 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

If you read my post, I said *would* have worked on the Hobbit. If prepay wasn't so broken now, JJP could have started taking prepays on JJP3 or JJP4 to easily get the ball rolling on Hobbit production. Then as production begins, more orders roll in and everything moves along as it should. But my guess is that JJP had to show off the Hobbit at shows a little longer to get more orders...or get a loan. Or maybe it wasn't about money at all and was just because of other stuff. I don't have any inside information so it's just speculation.
But I'm confident that Hobbit production will start soon...and JJP will move away from the prepay model as soon as they can.
And yea - the Hobbit is late. It's pretty common knowledge that the game shown at expo last year was weak...so they had to go back and redo it in order to make it awesome. That created delays. I'd much rather wait longer and get a great game instead of a mediocre one. I wish Stern was as open to initial feedback as JJP is - maybe then I would buy more Sterns.

Isn't innocent so cute??

#871 3 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Do you truly believe TH would have shipped on time without the bad feedback at expo and subsequent redesign?

I'm not sure that it would be reasonable to assume it would still be on time after taking all of those suggestions into account and making some changes. I'm fine with a delay in pursuit of refinements and perfection, it would just be nice to hear a bit more about the progress being made. Part of the fascination of a pinball machine and potentially purchasing one for me comes from the backstory behind the development of the game, as it unfolded. Getting more of a play by play of these machines, with some photo, video and other progress updates would really be something. It could become a story / documentary in itself in a way, similar to a "how it's made" show.

#872 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Isn't innocent so cute??

? What are you referring to ?

#873 3 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

I'm not sure that it would be reasonable to assume it would still be on time after taking all of those suggestions into account and making some changes. I'm fine with a delay in pursuit of refinements and perfection, it would just be nice to hear a bit more about the progress being made. Part of the fascination of a pinball machine and potentially purchasing one for me comes from the backstory behind the development of the game, as it unfolded. Getting more of a play by play of these machines, with some photo, video and other progress updates would really be something. It could become a story / documentary in itself in a way, similar to a "how it's made" show.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Let's pretend TH hobbit we have now was TH shown at expo, ie the one everyone likes. Thus not requiring a redesign. Do you think it would have started shipping when promised?

#874 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The Hobbit would already be out had the redesign never occurred.

Would have,could have,should have!

#875 3 years ago

People who ask questions are not 'haters'.

Most are realists who can see red flags.

I want to see and play Hobbit and look forward to Pat's game but no way would I pre pay anything right now.

#876 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Isn't innocent so cute??

I may get flamed for this ... but you used to be my favorite poster on Pinside. Your knowledge in the areas you post is immense. I shake my head in agreement with most all of your posts. You just seem more testy lately and it is taking some of the fun out of reading your good ideas ... and your other comments.

I miss the old Flynnibus

#877 3 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

But I'm confident that Hobbit production will start soon.

Just curious, what makes you confident? I hope you're right, but I haven't seen anything that actually gives me any confidence. Sounds more like you hope it will start soon.

#878 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The Hobbit would already be out had the redesign never occurred. .

So they redesigned the playfield/artwork and that's why the sound clips still hadn't been approved (as of the last show)?
Hmmm.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Hey, at least when The Hobbit does finally ship owners won't have to wait 3 years for complete code, lol.

Depends on when you start that clock....

Measure from when they PAID and then come back and tell me how long the last person waited for a game with complete code

With Stern: you pay, get a machine in a couple weeks and get to play it immediately, albeit with alpha and beta code for a couple years
With JJP: you pay, and (then you refresh pinside for a couple years waiting for an update), then get your game with better code, but it's still a couple years later.

Either way... you're waiting. Pick your poison.

#879 3 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

? What are you referring to ?

Well lets walk through it
- you say people would happily line up and prepay for JJP3 and JJP4. Based on what? Do we agree there is a big difference between prepaying for the 'pending' game and games further down the line? From a company that has a 100% hit ratio when it comes to prolonged delays?

Ignore Skit-B and JPop - would people really do that in numbers? They haven't before.. and every JJP *DELIVERABLE* up till now would be working against that

- you say "Or maybe it wasn't about money at all and was just because of other stuff."
I agree neither of us know the details... but what we do know is they were already late in showing something they were facing their own deadline on and the market was doubting them. They had to show something.. else face the pitchforks because even more confidence would be lost

- you say "But I'm confident that Hobbit production will start soon...and JJP will move away from the prepay model as soon as they can"
Confident based on what? Pretty much everything but 'it has to happen eventually' eats at this kind of confidence. JJP continues to show signs of cash flow issues... JJP has not come through with promises to resolve their manufacturing constraints... they haven't done much IMO to show they won't repeat the same teething problems inbetween prototype and production

- you say "That created delays"
You ignore how late that game shown was itself. And for all the playfield tweaking happening since then - what of all the other game code that should have seen this new delay as EXTRA time? No, it too is very far behind and needing every bit of this 'EXTRA' time to just keep up.. and will the game even be complete at launch? No peeps on that front...

I say innocence because... your optimism seems to be from closing your eyes to past and current performance and hoping for the best. IMO - their actions don't match that optimism. I do think Hobbit will get built... but I am scared on what it means to actually get all the pre-orders built and frankly have a degree of concern they won't get all built.

#880 3 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

I may get flamed for this ...

No flames from me.. thx for the feedback.

#881 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

JJP did deliver with WOZ. They shipped all 1000 LEs and 1000 standards. The Hobbit would already be out had the redesign never occurred. Thankfully it was delayed and a lot of improvments have been made.
Hey, at least when The Hobbit does finally ship owners won't have to wait 3 years for complete code, lol.

Nope just 3+ years to get the game and then however much longer it takes to get the code. Thats much better....lol

#882 3 years ago

OK - much better - the intelligent conversation returns!

Quoted from flynnibus:

Do we agree there is a big difference between prepaying for the 'pending' game and games further down the line?

A huge difference! Some people aren't into the Hobbit, but there are a crap-ton of people excited about a Pat Lawlor non-licensed/non-budget restricted game. Had it not been for JPOP/Skit-B, JJP could have easily pre-sold 2,000 Lawlor games sight unseen - and maybe double that for a good showing of an Alpha version.

And we still haven't heard about JJP4 - what if that were actually Star Wars? Do you think JJP might have been able to get sight unseen pre-orders for that if it weren't for the death of the prepay model? Heck - I bet he could still get 1,000 orders for Star Wars even after everything that's happened.

Quoted from flynnibus:

They had to show something.. else face the pitchforks because even more confidence would be lost

And absolutely, under no circumstances can they have a mediocre or worse game at this stage of their company. They did show something and it received a lukewarm reception. They had *no choice* but to go back and re-work it to make it a great game.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Confident based on what?

Based on talking to multiple vendors in private...most of whom are paid in full and one of whom is not. I don't know Jack's side of the story on why one of them is unpaid, so I'm not going to comment.

Quoted from flynnibus:

and will the game even be complete at launch?

I don't care if it's 100% complete - I think it will be more compete than WOZ was at launch and WAY more complete than anything Stern is building.

Quoted from flynnibus:

your optimism seems to be from closing your eyes to past and current performance and hoping for the best. IMO - their actions don't match that optimism.

No - my optimism is based on the information I have at hand. I honestly believe we will have Filthy Little Hobbitses by this Fall!

#883 3 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Wow, what a shock, another member who just joined today to Hate on Pinside....welcome....

Maybe not a hater. Maybe just someone who's heard the same stories so many others have. The pinball industry is really pretty small. It doesn't take long and most of those involved find out.

Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Practice this a bit more, Jack, and you'll do just fine.

#884 3 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Nope just 3+ years to get the game and then however much longer it takes to get the code. Thats much better....lol

You mean "get the game" as in

- start up a company
- start up a factory
- hire employers, for the factory, administration, accountents etc
- train manufacturors
- organise and make contracts with suppliers, finding new/better
- designing a game
- deal with the license unapprovals
- build prototypes
- back to license holders , costing alot of time
- build final build
- back again to license holders and wait
- start producing
- problems producing

3 years later first costumers get their product.

All of that.... In only 3 years. I wish i had the balls, knowlegde and money to even try something like this.

Uhmm.... I would fail i am afraid....

#885 3 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

3 years later first costumers get their product.
All of that.... In only 3 years. I wish i had the balls, knowlegde and money to even try something like this.
Uhmm.... I would fail i am afraid....

Exactly...just as others have failed already. People seem to forget that Stern has multiple teams working concurrently - that's how they are able to crank out 3 or 4 titles a year. We know for a fact that Ritchie has been working on his next title since Star Trek...is that about 2 years at this point?

10
#886 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Jack & Co., send me some gameplay/interview/other videos. I'll edit them very nice and fancy and we can put them out a little bit at a time. I'll do this free of charge.
EDIT: ok, nevermind... Just got a PM saying "Help is part of your name. Help Robin fix Pinside. That needs a lot more help than JJP. We are fine....really!"
Yea... can't really imagine why anyone would suggest JJP needs more help in the PR dept.... they got it goin' on.

Wow, Jack is sure sending an awful lot of PM's to Pinsider's who make comments here lately.

Fix Pinside? Last I checked, it wasn't broke.

#887 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The Hobbit would already be out had the redesign never occurred. Thankfully it was delayed and a lot of improvments have been made.

You keep saying this but honestly I don't think it's true. The changes were really cosmetic for the most part. They were finished before the end of the year. It doesn't take 6 months to manufacture the new parts. It's just late, for whatever reason. Really late is to be expected with JJP. Until they ship a machine on time. So far 0 for 2. Just a fact. Although I might be called a troll for mentioning it by the "faithful"

10
#888 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Hey, at least when The Hobbit does finally ship owners won't have to wait 3 years for complete code, lol.

Still taking shots at the other guys , I wonder if Gary is PMing Pinsiders for hateful posting ?

#889 3 years ago

Guys what's the point of all of this? Speculation is all we are doing? Not a single new point has been made in 10 pages. Be patient and enjoy the pins you have.

#890 3 years ago

I feel like I am caught in Groundhog Day. I certainly do hope that there is a lot less drama surrounding JJP3.

#891 3 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Guys what's the point of all of this? Speculation is all we are doing? Not a single new point has been made in 10 pages. Be patient and enjoy the pins you have.

Uhh.....aaaagreeeeee?

Seriously...WTH happened to kaneda

#892 3 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Uhh.....aaaagreeeeee?
Seriously...WTH happened to kaneda

I've been one of his big bashers in the past.

We are watching him grow up before our very eyes!

I've had good conversation with him via PM too. Hope he keeps it up...and also hope he doesn't let the compliments go to his head.

-1
#893 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Still taking shots at the other guys , I wonder if Gary is PMing Pinsiders for hateful posting ?

I know it was a jab. It was intended to be as you and several others have been taking shots at JJP for over two years now. Annoying isn't it? Now imagine reading those types those comments for two years...That's what many JJP supporters have been dealing with here.

The hateful and rude comments became so bad that the mods created a WOZ thread where nothing rude could be said about the game. Similar threads for Stern haven't been created as JJP supporters are not going into those threads with their only intention being to stir the pot.

#894 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I know it was a jab. It was intended to be as you and several others have been taking shots at JJP for over two years now. Annoying isn't it? Now imagine reading those types those comments for two years...That's what many JJP supporters have been dealing with here.

It's a valid point as neither company is doing it right. Although if you are going to take jabs at stern don't take the jjp jabs so seriously. You levied a valid criticism. Many are levying valid jjp criticisms. Again, read my first sentence

#895 3 years ago

I said it before just a few pages back but I'll say it again:

I'm a buyer for the Hobbit when it is available at a distro I trust. I would love to add a modern wide body toy heavy game with an LCD display and fantasy theme to my collection. If Stern releases Game of Thrones prior to me being able to buy the Hobbit my money may go to GoT if GoT looks really good. We will see.

#896 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I know it was a jab. It was intended to be as you and several others have been taking shots at JJP for over two years now. Annoying isn't it? Now imagine reading those types those comments for two years...That's what many JJP supporters have been dealing with here.

Be nice to Jim. He's a great guy. He's just angry because there's nothing to Festool on a WOZ.

#897 3 years ago

I think all JJP supporters who are keeping the faith need to look up the definition of the word *faith*. It's not something intelligent humans really want to say they have (and no, I am not talking about the religious definition of faith. This is certainly not the forum for that).

Oh heck, here it is - "firm belief in something for which there is no proof".

I want JJP to succeed, I really do. Seriously. Honestly. I just don't have any faith, as this would imply that I am blindly believing there are no serious issues when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Their PR approach is a bit baffling as well. I've received my own PM from Jack which I will not share verbatim, but I will say it wasn't a big friendly hello. This approach puzzles me. I think the few posts I have made in this thread are pretty logical, but I guess that is all open to interpretation.

Look at the facts and follow the money, that's pretty much all you have to do to get a good idea of how anything works (or is working).

#898 3 years ago

so much time to send pms

#899 3 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

I've received my own PM from Jack

WTF, is there anyone Jack *isn't* PMing? Jack, you can't talk shit about people wasting too much time on here if you're going to take the time to privately message everyone!

#900 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

WTF, is there anyone Jack *isn't* PMing? Jack, you can't talk shit about people wasting too much time on here if you're going to take the time to privately message everyone!

I got one too.

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