How cool would it be to integrate clips from the TWD and heads getting lopped off!

If you like "dots" on a pin then you gotta love video, no?

Hopefully Stern will implement video with GOT, its time to get out of the 90's with "dots".

I disagree. Woz looks strange and not appealing from the 20 ft. The PF looks okay but the GI is so lame.

It might bring new people to at least try the game, but it does not really matter.

Starwars Eps1 used to attract people to play it in the arcade, but the gameplay itself was not too good.

When I got into pinball and was shopping for my first pin at a retailer, WOZ immediately got my attention. Beautiful machine. I saw all the new Stern pins but had no interest. They didn't look attractive and was not all that interested in playing them. I quickly formed a bias against them that took a while to undo as I discovered they can be fun to play. I ended up getting a Stern months later so first impressions didn't matter I guess. I still think it is poor that Stern in the middle of 2015 still does not have more than one color in their display.

Well if it does attract people to play it on location and the gameplay is good then it does really matter.

JJP really isn't a serious competitor to stern. They avg One new game what every 2 years?
LCDs are cool but they will easily increase the price of a pro by $1000 with the cost of the display and extra development needed. Not worth it. maybe on the LEs it is who knows

They are not a serious competitor at this moment but they certainly could be. If they get to the point where they just crank out games quicker JJP would be a monster competitor.

Keith and Lawlor are just as good as Sheets and Borg/Ritchie. All JJP needs to do is put out product at a faster pace...they are a manufacturing company, they need product being manufactured for the market.

Of course they are - this is why Stern has adjusted their business model in the last few years to include LE with more content and higher prices. I would also argue that even though JJP has only released one pin (with a second sold in preorder), they have pulled a lot of money out of the pinball market. I don't think anyone knows actual sales, but let's hypothesize 2000 WOZ and 1000 Hobbit to be conservative (I think these numbers are low). Even though this is over a 3-4 year span, that is still a large pot of pinball money pulled away from potential Stern sales. Competition isn't just how many models are released, but the volume of machines sold.

Competition is good. Don't understand why some people have to be only pro-JJP or pro-Stern. I think both companies can make good games and I will support either when they make a game I enjoy.

Scott

This may not be 100% accurate in all cases, but I've often viewed the evolution of scoring displays as an indicator of generational leaps in platform technology. For example, scoring reels on early EM games... to numeric LCDs when games went solid state CPU in the late 70s and early 80s... to alphanumeric LCDs in the mid-late 80s with sys11 and later sys80B games (more CPU horsepower also bringing better sound and more complicated rules)... to DMD in the 90s. Side note, to that end I tend to view Color DMD and similar as something of a bridge technology. That's not to take anything away from that platform BTW, I love what they are doing and have them in my own games. It just underscores how I view the move to LCD panels in the backglass as the next generational leap that eventually all manufacturers will take. It's the best form of display available today

Please use normal sized fonts. I'm old and pretty f**king blind at this point.

I'd like a smaller LCD in the speaker panel and not "in" the backglass. The same size display as in a 14 inch laptop would be perfect and insure mass production pricing. This will leave room for a full size backglass/translite, which I don't want to give up. Personally I think the JJP machines look goofy with that big display. It is simply too big.

So maybe WoZ's implementation of the LCD wasn't perfect- but it was a step in the right direction.

I think the display on TBL is a nice compromise between the 2. *cringe* I almost hesitate to bring it up, but even the display in Magic Girl tried something new.... and - at least from the video - looked like an interesting iteration.

However, some may not EVER want to see evolution from the DMD; I think they are in the minority, though. Witness the wild success on the colorDMD implementation on older machines. There's clearly a market for better displays....

I miss the painted number on the backglass.

LTG : )™

I believe it is inevitable!

I'm good with the JJP use of the screen. It's new, and when your looking on with others playing the content is amazing. It is multiple times better than a DMD because of how much information is available at a glance. Give me that over three shrinking lines as counters (I've owned Tron for years and I still don't even know which line is the counter for Gem, Zeus or Clu). WOZ is no less appealing next to any other game when they are off, and the screen looks great when it's on. But that's ok. I think we could have this discussion for a year and not come to any agreement (see what I did there?).

I love the display on WOZ. JJP delivered what they said they would in that regard. It is a shame Stern still hasn't adopted an LCD display (other than Wrestlemania of course).

Article in vending times last week, Stern hired two 3D computer graphic model-techie guys. One just got done working on Mortal Kombat X.... so.... sounds like Gary's getting ready for a showdown.

clint-eastwood-557.jpeg

From the cell version though. None of Neather realms big guys left.

Not really. JJP sells $8500.00 (and up) pins.

Stern still sells pins in the $4700.00 range (in addition to the Premium and LE's).

If JJP continues to sell at higher and higher prices, Stern will still be selling a ton of pros and nobody else offers an alternative to that market segment.

Look for that to change.... soon!

Meaning what? Price bump for the new LCD games?

Definitely. If they add an LCD you know the price is going to go up at least $500. I'm not a big fan of the LCD but Stern's definitely going with it as a permanent feature... I hope they figure out a way to keep the cost down on the Pro so there's at least a figuratively speaking more affordable version of their machines.

Why is that? The LCD will most likely be cheaper than the pricey LED displays they have been using. As long as they keep the development costs down for the on-screen content, the price should not go up nearly that much if at all.

The price will go up

Generating unique content for an LCD is going to be much more expensive than a dmd.

Like I said, they literally just had to hire two more guys just to do 3D modeling for the display now. That's an extra 100K+ per year they're spending, right now, because they decided to do an LCD... and that's just in salary, and that's just the two guys we know about.

Also Stern has never missed an opportunity to raise prices!

Like JJP hasn't raised prices? Lol Stern is the best bang for your buck

LCD for LE and Premium, dmd for Pro?

That would be even more expensive from a development standpoint having to develop two systems, not to mention the LED displays are really expensive compared to LCDs.

It all depends on how the use the display. Sure if they try to do a lot of fancy stuff it will take more time to develop. On the other hand they may just start out with colorized dots like ColorDMD. Either way, I look forward to getting rid of those crappy LED DMDs. Not only are the LED displays themselves more expensive ($300) than the old plasma ones or an LCD, the 8x8 grid pattern looks terrible. Not to mention reliability - I have had an LED go out on one. Good riddance.

I would be SHOCKED if we didnt see at least a $400 bump.

Why?

Stern isnt dumb. They see us tripping over ourselves and paying at least that much just to add a bit of color to the content (colorDMD).

Stern has already seen the test market- and its telling them they will pay MORE.

Ok, something is wrong, because I'm agreeing with lowepg.

Do a call around for a new game at distributors you don't know and you will see us sitting at about 4900 delivered. Stern needs something to offer as they break the psychological barrier at 5k. An LCD fits the bill to give a big bump. Then they can start the run up to 6k pros in $150 segments. The top price the market will handle hasn't been found yet. They will find it, and then back off a bit from it. Maybe start tossing in a $2 spinner to justify the next leap.

I agree... just sayin, though, that when the LCD comes out the price will go up.

Yup, and in reality, the price of machines hasn't really gone up all that much since the mid 90's, has it? (talking Pro, here). I know there's the argument (and a good one) that since there's less in a Pro than a mid 90's machine it SHOULD be less, but what it comes down to is the cheapest machine you can get now (from Stern) isn't really all that much more expensive than the cheapest machine you could get from Data East, or Sega.

Inflation affects everybody, and Stern has good reasons they've raised prices (either literally, or buy cutting features) like higher delivery costs (for parts), higher wire costs (they've reduced wiring), higher display costs (they've replaced it now), etc.

They're going to look for a reason to get that price bumped up over 5k like you said.

Not arguing the theme choice even though I dont like it or the layout, My issue was the Far superior comment. A LCD in a Backbox to me doesnt make it Far Superior if the game isnt that fun. If thats the case RFM & SWE1 would rank as the best 2 games ever???

Since when?

Yup, and the interesting thing is, all this new "competition" in pinball had had the atypical result of driving UP Prices....

JJP and DP and PPS have proven there *IS* an appetite for games at a much higher price point.

So, unless the economy tanks, I expect prices to climb, AND:

More games released with "LE-price tags" and "Premium-level" features .

Everytime I hear people say "stern must" I have to laugh. Stern is the only one who announces and ships games we can buy in a timely manner. If innovation means I have to wait a year or more after paying, no thanks. Once a game starts you look at the play field. I don't really get why people want clips playing so bad on an lcd. Nothing matters other than great play field design, flow and rule set.

I'm not an expert at business economics (obviously) but you're right, it's strange that it led to the opposite, which is usually competition would lower prices.

Maybe that's a sign of a market that's under realized... you get competition, and prices go up! Craziest thing ever.

Pro prices haven't gone up too much have they ? You can still pay less in $ what we have to pay in £ (UK ) JJP has shown them that they can charge more for LE providing there is more in them.

The LCD is more about information than clips. It's not just a TV showing video. So most home owner's think it's an improvement. Operators certainly will. I want to see more pinball on location ( and pay by phone swipe ! )

WOZ does look strange compared to other modern pinball machines. It doesn't look like the other modern pinball machines. It reminds me of my Twilight Zone which was from a time when pinball machines were loaded up with a lot of features, and mechanical toys. The large LCD automatically makes it look different then today's Stern's that still used small DMD's...Also, any game will look strange next to a modern Stern when it features unique side and head artwork on both sides of the cabinet

The "player doesn't look at the screen" argument is old and many players do look at the screen, whether it be a DMD or LCD. I look at the LCD on my WOZ often as the game allows the player brief moments to do so and those moments add to my enjoyment of the game. This same argument doesn't appear to apply to Stern games as they are still using outdated tech so some people need to defend the older tech by saying "ah who cares, you never look at the screen"...If Stern suddenly switches to an LCD (they appear to be) you will hear very little complaints.

I should use the same approach when buying a car. Who cares what the back seat looks like when I sit in the front? Who cares what the center console looks like as I don't look at while I'm driving. The DMD is old and Stern is now charging JJP prices for games that don't feature a comparable number of features yet charge the same price at the LE level. I do think that they offer a good amount of value at the pro level but they are overcharging so much for their LE's today.

You're right. I never look at my GPS when I'm driving.

Love the LCD, although I do think it makes the game more fun for the people waiting their turn than it does for the person playing.

Let's say they have sold 3500 games between WOZ and The Hobbit at an average price of $7500. That's $26,250,000 that went to JJP and not Stern. That's a serious competitor as Stern had the market all to themselves before JJP and the other smaller pinball companies.

Personally I think JJP should also make a $5k game that is a standard body but still uses their LCD display and platform. They are missing out on a huge part of the pinball market by not offering a game in that price range. Maybe offer one unique high end game in the $8k range and a different game in the $5k range at the same time.

If that were true, ColorDMDs would not be as popular as they are, and the move from alphanumeric to DMD would have been short-lived.

"Rome wasn't built in a day". I'm sure there was a time when Stern wasn't cranking out 3-4 titles a year and selling them as well as they do today. JJP is still a relatively new business. It's going to take time for them to grow like any company.