Maybe because it is untrue. Netflix stock was selling for $200 and now is $350 for a 75% increase. WOZ. cost $6500 so after the nice increase, goes to $11500. Nowhere near bs return you stated.

Iceman you reminded of this .....South park link great

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pre-ordering-games

The link no longer works

New link

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=south+park+pre-order&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=2BB11CF41FF423ED69292BB11CF41FF423ED6929

Is Sobor another word for obvious?

I pre-ordered BBB in 2004 from a company that had never made a complete game before and had to wait until 2007 to get the game. And this was for a machine where all the artwork and parts design and programming was already done and they even used existing Capcom PCBs they already had.

Based on this I expected the new guys pre-selling games which had to be designed from square one (such as JJP with WoZ) would not come close to meeting their anticipated production and delivery dates. I thought you would have to add at least a year onto whatever planned ship date they cited.

The only one I figured would be close to meeting the planned date was PPS with MMrLE because it was a remake and not a totally new game design, and PPS had been a major supplier of replacement parts for games like MM. And it was a good sign when they announced that the MMrLE games would be assembled by Stern at the Stern factory, where the workers already know how to assemble a pinball machine. Even if PPS missed their 2nd quarter of 2014 planned date, I felt sure MMrLEs would ship before Pinball Expo so PPS could make the big announcement for their next remake at this year's Expo. But even with all the advantages they have over all the other "startups" PPS hasn't been able to ship completed games yet.

Anyone who pays in advance to pre-order a game from a first-time pinball machine builder should plan on at least three years before you see delivery. And during that time you will have to sweat out the possibility that the company will fail, production will never happen, and you lose your deposit money.

Too much binary thinking in this thread and too much letting a few things totally destroy the belief that a pre-pay model can work.

There needs to be some middle ground where boutique and start-ups can get the funding help they need to get off the ground and buyers are not put in a situation of paying a pre-order for vaporware and for something with a totally unrealistic timeline.

I don't think any boutique company should get into this business if they are not willing to fund the development of the game on their own. There is certainly a lot of risk in that you then design and build a game/prototype that no one wants, but that is the risk you need to take if you want to play in this space.

Once a company has shown its product, one that is 95% of what the expected production model is, then great. Start taking pre-orders, as long as there is clear path in place to get the games produced with a realistic time frame. And if there is one thing that every one of these companies should have come to understand at this point is that Communication throughout the entire process is key. Not saying you have to reply to ever freaking post on pinside or elsewhere, but a consistent level and frequency of communication is needed -- even if there is nothing new/good to say. When people don't know what you are doing, they assume you are doing nothing (or worse).

Keep in mind that pre-orders is as much about measuring demand as it is about raising capital. It would certainly be nice to find a way to measure demand for a title, with some level of believability, without taking pre-orders to help reduce the risk of designing and building a machine that while sounds great, no one will actually spend money on.

If you build your prototype and then can't get enough pre-orders to make it fly, well, that really sucks, but understand that can happen, give the money back and move on. I respect what Riot/Wooly is doing in this regard (although escrow money should be held by a third party).

A small company is going to need that capital from pre-orders to be able to buy parts, the profit margins are way too small to be paying high costs to acquire capital elsewhere. If as a community we are not willing to support this aspect of it, via some form of pre-pay model, then we will not see many of these games come to fruition. Again, I'm not saying pre-pay based on a flyer or an announcement, but when you have seen and played the machine. Of course anyone willing to support a company by pre-paying earlier and understands it will be a roller coaster ride, that is great and would benefit all of us, but that should not be 'the model'.

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Yep, just what I was thinking.

Q*bert response

OT Comment:

I do believe there ain't but two kinds of music: country and western.

I went and bought George's Bar @ Amazon after I saw yer post. Beauty baby.
I got to party a bit with Robert Earl Keene a few years ago when he played a local festival I volunteered at. I think he's another Texas country boy.

(BTW: The new AC/DC actually rocks pretty good too.)

I bought mine at $6 share. Only bummer is that I split $30k between Netflix and TiVo when they were around the same price rather than going all in on Netflix (which is what my gut told me was tge right move at the time).

Welcome to the real world Ice.