(Topic ID: 172477)

I've been a long time Stern Pinball fan, but I'm done with them.

By jar155

2 years ago

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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by kpg
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders


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    #62 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do you think they could give away 30 pinball machines and stay in business?
    Seems unlikely.
    Times may be good compared to 2009 but I have a hard time Stern Pinball Inc. is just minting millionaires left and right.

    There's no reason to give them away. But they certainly could have taken all of the LE preorders from distributors and drawn 30 lucky people to be upgraded to a special LE. Instead they made the 30 years of stern all about cash. I think it's great for stern in the short term. Long term I think you will see a shifting in the tide. There's always pissing and moaning about every new game, every price increase, every change in the product, etc. But this time there seems to really be a lot of fed up long term buyers.

    #69 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Giveaway 5 then. Make it fun... make it an event. Celebrate your customer base

    It's a form of celebration

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    #133 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Raise your hand if you have played a BM66? Nobody? Didn't think so.
    When it comes out and IF Stern doesn't deliver perceived value then they have totally F ed themselves on this deal.
    I believe they will deliver my "perceived value", and I don't really care wtf anybody else thinks
    I just got through Ballroom on my kick ass GBLE, excellent quality btw. And absolutely gorgeous!

    Exactly, no one has played it and they are asking people to agree to buy it. Even JJP finally got away from that. Don't you find it odd that the other start ups are fighting to not do this and stern, a company that doesn't need to do this suddenly is now.

    Got to give it to them though. They obviously did their research and knew the community would bend over and take it. They found a way to have people begging to be able to pay 15k for a game. This has to be Gary's new business card.

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    #154 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    What about all of the folks that are first time buyers that have no idea they have a defective product? Has Stern reached out to all buyers through their distributors?
    I don't think so.
    That's a real shame... they know there's a problem but they're doing their best to keep it under wraps.

    I think the real issue is that they still seem to be using some of the FUN playfields. Seems like they are picking through them and ones that look good are still being installed. As soon as the problem was found they should have stopped using them all together as it is likely that every last one of them will have ghosting issues at some point in the next few years. Stern chose to go add another supplier, they need to hold that supplier and themselves accountable for that instead of hosing their clients. Premiums are still showing up with ghosting, that's a strong signal to me that the end consumers happiness with the product is not the primary concern. They should have stopped shipping any games with those immediately and sent every last one of those playfields back.

    #162 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Lots of thumbs up for this, but I have to disagree with it.
    While I personally agree that there is not close to $15k of value in BM66SLE *to me*, I would never say that the people who do find $15k value in it are delusional or are unable to put proper value to things. There are numerous factors that go into determining an items value to each individual, and those factors will vary greatly on a person by person basis. This should be obvious.
    Go outside of this hobby, and think about how easy it would be for a non-pinhead to say that "they can't deliver $6000.00 of value in a pinball machine. That's not possible. Anybody who says that they do is delusional and has no ability to put proper value to things."
    Would those people be correct in that statement?

    They all think we are crazy and they are correct. Most of us have several newer machines and many people on here have more then the average yearly income of a household setting in their game room.

    #197 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Ultimately the question I ask is - why should I care? The hobby will be just fine regardless.
    Pinball has "died" so many times I've lost count. And you keep talking about "ethics" and trying to convince us Stern is just filled with bad hombres who aren't nice guys. Again, why should I care?
    Bally used to be owned by the friggin' MOB for pete's sake. And they killed people!!!

    That mob certainly made good pinball machines, got to give them that.

    #243 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Why is Stern going to sell a shit ton of Star Wars pins?
    Because they piss on customers and are a shit company?
    People are already climbing all over each other to get on a distributor list to be able to buy an LE. Some of you guys are delusional.
    And then when Pulp Fiction and Iron Maiden rolls out next year too, the same old cries of "take my money please" will be loud and clear.
    Watch it happen.

    I think you are overselling the LE model. People like you have been claiming BM66LE sold out when and there are still a few available. There's already numerous bad Star Wars games, I'll pass on another. I also could care less about Iron Maiden or a 22 year old movie pin. They can keep their Aerosmith also. Pass on Jaws and all the other dated crap people want.

    If others want the games though that is good for them and for stern. There's no value there for me though. I can have fun a lot cheaper.

    #413 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballrockstar:

    Hi this is gary stern,we will do this...specially for you.
    We always take on selfish requests from random people on forums.
    We saw the awesome reactions on dialed in and we look forward to selling 5 pins a year.

    Reactions aside, Dailed In is going to crush sterns releases. It has twice the features of any recent sterns. I thought it looked stupid when announced, when I played it I developed a very different opinion.

    #429 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I doubt it at those prices.

    Quoted from iceman44:

    I doubt it at those prices.

    Why, there's lots of people like you that have already proven you pay more for a game.

    #570 2 years ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Stern....... Release the codes already......... Your investors are waiting.

    You are not an investor. You are a purchaser of a product which is a consumer.

    Stern has pretty much proven that they are going to release the game with some code and it may or may not work out to your liking overtime. If you are not OK wit this risk you shouldn't buy and NIB machines from then until the process changes. Do you buy any other type of electronics and hope that overtime the company will make it better and meet your standards? The only way it will change is if code hurts sales and drives change.

    #579 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Anytime I purchase something that was designed to make money, specifically a coin operated machine, I'd say it is an investment, and therefore I'm an investor.
    Like when I purchased tools to repair cars to make money. Those tools were an investment that I could depreciate over time.

    If you are routing coin op machines when you purchase them it is an investment towards your business and they are then part of your business. You do not own a part of stern and you are not a stern investor. Those are completely different things.

    #659 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Most companies don't purposely build a bad product to get you to buy another one, there are of course some exceptions (like HP putting code into the ink cartridges to give them an expiration date so you can't keep refilling it with ink, or phone companies purposely updating the OS to demand more CPU cycles). Products are built with a purpose, and back in the day it was to sell a product to make money on route, then it trashed (or stored in a warehouse in case they wanted to rotate).
    Nobody thought about nostalgia back then, and for the most part there weren't home NIB buyers because who needs to buy a pinball machine when you can play it in public. If you average out all of the countries that buy pinball, it averages out to about a 50/50 split (italy is about 95% route, 5% home buyer).
    The market has changed, pinball needs to last. It's why companies like Spooky Pinball invest R&D into clearcoats that can protect a playfield from a million hits of a steel ball without dimpling.

    Spooky makes good playfields, no doubt about that but they still dimple. My AMH had dimples after a few plays.

    #684 2 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    We have seen a trend with Stern, some games are designed to a be deep and feature rich (GB, AC/DC), others are designed to be good on route, less stuff that can break and go wrong, quicker return on investment for op, (e.g. WWE). Them trying to achieve both on all machines is not realistic or smart. Obviously success of a machine, out of the gate, seems to influence how much additional time is spent on software after the release (and also seems to sometimes determine if a premium or VE will be made or not).

    You don't really think stern is designing games thinking "well this one will sell like crap to home buyers but will do good on route. We can make a good home buyer pin next time." You use WWE as an example when it was a complete failure for both home sales and route sales. That game came out because stern had a license fall through, not because they were trying to make a good featureless route game.

    If they are not trying to make feature rich deep games that are also durable then they need to go ahead and board up the doors now. Take the profit and run because they are going to lose all of it fairly quickly.

    #688 2 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    Yes, I do. They probably don't say 'sell like crap', but 'will be less appealing' and accordingly will be developed differently as far as investment made. Again, the home market is not their number one priority in decision making.
    Do you really thing success on route is based on a game's depth? I was at an arcade this weekend, they had five pins, including a GB, that I saw in constant play, but clearly by people who had little clue about pinball, rules, etc. Those games are only generating money if they are up and running, and the more complex a game is, the less likely that is the case on location, the depth of the game is certainly not the most important thing in that environment.
    The home market is only going to buy so many games, I think Gary and team are smart enough to know that and invest the resources on each game accordingly. Will they typically have an LE for those collector types who will buy regardless, sure, why would they not, and we all know sometimes the cost difference is not justified based on the game differences. Again, they pick and choose were to put the resources based on how and to whom, they think a pin will sell.

    Perhaps you should ask the designer of WWE what happened. He has been pretty open about the fact that he had an very short time to get the game designed and out because he had spent most of his development time on a license that fell through and he had to start from scratch.

    Gary can keep blabbing the same nonsense but he and stern knows good and well that home market sales passed route sales long ago. They are trying to make games like AC/DC, MET, ST, etc that appeal to both markets. Why would they want to make crappy games that sell poorly. You can make a game that is both fun to shoot for a novice but is also deep and compelling for home play. I don't understand the thought at all that they can't and shouldn't be both.

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