(Topic ID: 172477)

I've been a long time Stern Pinball fan, but I'm done with them.


By jar155

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by kpg
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    #120 3 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Costco shoppers played it before the art update

    Holy shit if I would have stumbled across that at my local Costco I would have sprained my credit cards something fierce. Is that "The Pin" Batman? I thought there was only a Transformers!

    #123 3 years ago

    Stern could definitely use a more pleasant social media person, for sure.

    #177 3 years ago
    Quoted from HenryWinkler:

    When did I say anything about JJP? Or any other pin manufacturer at all? There are plenty of companies that treat their customers well. If I am buying crap that I don't need, it doesn't have to be a pin. I'll go buy another motorcycle, or a couple of guitars, or 20 pair of Red Wings. I will give my money to companies that treat me like a customer instead of one of their subjects.

    I kept reading this as "I'll go buy... 20 orders of wings" and now I'm hungry. THANKS HENRYWINKLER. loved you on Arrested Development

    #194 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I have been very disappointed in the quality and price of food McDonalds has been selling for the last several years. But instead of just not going there anymore, I might have to make it my crusade to spread the word and see how many other people I can get on the boycott bandwagon.

    Hey buddy, no burgerments in this thread.

    #264 3 years ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    You abandoned the fact that KISS was abandoned too.

    But didn't KISS get a rather sizable update?

    #433 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    If you're complaining about ACDC's code, there must be no joy in your life.

    I know you're not shy about hyperbole, but this reaches new heights.

    Perhaps I'm naive, but I don't understand why a pinball machine would be shipped without completed code. I would think that finished code would be just as integral to the machine as a finished playfield. They wouldn't release a game where they'll ship the ramps to you six months after you buy it, so why ship a game out with half assed code?

    As much as I love The Hobbit, I'm boggled as to why there would be a "Battle of Five Armies" insert but no Battle of Five Armies mode when the game first shipped. Just as boggling as to why there would be these Cannon Fodder, Cannon Volley and Cannon Chaos inserts on a game that doesn't have any code for them! Why not just remove them? Or maybe use it to let the player know how far they have to go until they can load the Cannon.

    It doesn't make sense to me.

    #435 3 years ago

    Damn, that's a really jaded way of looking at things. I hope you're not right;sadly, you probably are.

    #438 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    Actually, I'd say you're the one that's jaded. My wife and I just finished playing ACDC for the past couple hours. I've owned the game for over two years and it still rocks. I don't think a better game exists.
    I'm sorry you can't appreciate it.

    Hmmm... games I've rated, here on Pinside... let's see... oh, I gave it a 10, that's right.

    IMG_1452 (resized).PNG

    #441 3 years ago
    Quoted from bhwolf:

    having inserts on the game with no code/etc DOES seem to push that a bit far. I don't own TH, but is that true? Inserts that have no actual code support? Wow.

    In the latest update there is support for it! I just think it's wild that it was shipped in an incomplete state.

    #443 3 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    This is pretty much how every device you have works.
    Also, in a manufacturing business you aren't making money unless widgets are going out the doors.

    Respectfully, if I buy a TV, and it has a button that says "input", but that feature is coming soon... I'd buy a different TV.

    #446 3 years ago

    I don't CARE, it's their decision! I just don't understand why a pinball manufacturer would put out an incomplete product, other than "because they can".

    I couldn't update Legend of Zelda on my NES, and it was rad.

    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    The comparison is flawed. A pinball machine with non working insert lights or modes not yet implemented doesn't prevent you from using the machine.

    The TV works too! I can only have one device plugged in at a time right now, though. The update will open up the other inputs.

    #452 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    I'm glad to see you also can appreciate ACDC.

    It's a fantastic game, but that doesn't mean that the useless inserts don't perplex me, from a design perspective.

    Quoted from Chambahz:

    Funny comment you wrote about WoZ though:

    What's funny about it? They always seem to be having issues. They would piss me off if I owned one, or if I had a stake in one, but as someone who just loves to play 'em when I find 'em... 10/10.

    #454 3 years ago

    I understand why people mistake my passion for insanity now.

    Quoted from markmon:

    Well here's why. The game designer, who is not a good rules designer, designed the game. He chose the inserts. They all have some rules behind them by the way. None of the inserts do nothing.

    My naïveté has me thinking that the design of a game would include the rules. You are much more familiar with the inner workings of the pinball industry than I am, however.

    Quoted from markmon:

    Then the rules designer who is known as the best rules developer in the industry took it upon himself to go crazy and get creative with the layout and made some awesome rules. Where most game coders would just implement the game features and be done, Lyman actually played the game a ton, bought it for his home, and got ultra creative. He added great features like vip pass. Do you see a vip pass insert? No because the game designer never conceived of it. The result in acdc is a complete, fun game with great wizard mode and a ton of strategy that goes well above and beyond where the game designer planned.

    This is where I repeat that I gave the game a 10 out of 10 on the Pinside ratings system, for the second time in this thread.

    Quoted from markmon:

    If you want a game that just implemented the game designers original rules, look to a game done by Lonnie such as transformers or avengers. If you want some real creativity and fun rules look towards something Lyman worked on a year after the fact.

    Why doesn't Lyman do the code in the first place?

    Quoted from markmon:

    Yes anyone complaining about acdc code clearly is impossible to please and should be ignored as the boy who cried wolf.

    I'm trying really hard to not return your, uh, passion in kind. Simply put, if you think I'm complaining about AC/DC, you need to have your eyes or reading ability examined.

    -1
    #456 3 years ago

    Uhm, your comment came right after mine. Being that this is a public forum, you're hopefully familiar with how a conversation works?

    Also,

    Quoted from markmon:

    Yes anyone complaining about acdc code clearly is impossible to please and should be ignored as the boy who cried wolf.

    "Anyone" doesn't seem particularly vague. And it's also not very conducive to a conversation. On a public forum.

    -2
    #467 3 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Your complaints aren't the type I was referring to.

    And this is a public message board forum! He could be referring to "anyone!"

    Instead, I was referring to the typical inclusion of AC/DC into the stern incomplete code rants. As if it would have been better for Lyman to focus on making the most of every insert of the game was a better decision than working on all the great things in the AC/DC code like VIP pass, all the risk / reward etc.

    I'm sure I'm just wasting my time asking this, since you didn't feel it worthy of a response the first time, but here goes my two part question:

    * why include inserts in a game that is not going to use them
    * why doesn't the person creating the layout with the game work in tandem with the person creating the code?

    Quoted from markmon:

    You know if you want to take Steve's vision for the software in the game, it was average and uninventive. This is straight out of the video he made before AC/DC was released. He planned, for example, that for each song to have an area you bash. TNT would be the TNT targets etc. The typical implement the features style of code. Lyman took what's there and did so much more. But that's his job. To then come and complain that AC/DC is incomplete because some inserts dont do enough discounts all Lyman's awesome work on this title.

    I'm sorry but this line of reasoning completely destroys any type of discussion unless it's the fawning, "they can do no wrong!" type. To complain about inserts that are meaningless does not equate to not loving the game, and unless you're Steve Ritchie or Lyman Sheat's son, you shouldn't take lines of questioning as discounting what they've done, or not liking what they've done, or even taking it personally whatsoever.

    #471 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Lyman said at their presentation at Replay this year AC/DC would be one PF he wishes they could have redone. They did one stab at the PF and that was it. The discussion was over how the PF should give the player the info they need.. and AC/DC was noted as a letdown in that objective because of the timeframe they had for the game and they only did one shot at the PF.

    Thanks for the reasonable response.

    I love AC/DC, I think its risk vs. reward system is one of the niftiest rule sets ever in a game. I don't think it's a letdown whatsoever. I kinda would like to go back in time to see what the game was like before Lyman got his hands on it, just for poop n' giggles.

    With that being said, my stupid lizard brain just can't wrap itself around why code wouldn't be just as important as playfield design. It also can't comprehend why it has useless inserts. They're not even "not ready yet" like BOTFA is on The Hobbit - a design decision I ALSO don't understand, but it makes a little more sense to me than the inserts on AC/DC, which don't ever seem to have been part of the design whatsoever.

    #473 3 years ago
    Quoted from taz:

    It's probably about compressed production schedules, playfield lead times, and Stern pumping out 3 games a year as opposed to one game every 3 years. Code is the only component that can lag in the process, so naturally that's what happens.

    I don't want to get the whole broken record ding against me, but this still baffles me. Why isn't code worked on in unison with the playfield? "It doesn't have to be in order for people to buy it" is the only answer people seem to have, and I find that unacceptable. I don't think the solution is "well don't buy one Corn and STFU"; I think companies should have their feet held to the fire for releasing incomplete games!

    Let me try a whole different line of reasoning. What's the last pinball machine that was shipped with 100% complete code?

    If anyone wants to bitch about code quality I suggest that there are more deserving games than AC/DC or IM to choose from. Otherwise it just seems like it's bitching for the sake of bitching.

    This just makes me I'm not bitching about the game, I'm merely asking questions! I also think it's strange that no one is getting upset about my questions about The Hobbit, even though it's the same issue I have with AC/DC. Is the Stern Army that sensitive???!?

    #502 3 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Probably Lyman was working on other projects and by the time he got involved it was already done and too late to change. Lyman had some great ideas for the game. But rather than trash all those ideas and focus on the playfield inserts Steve had already created, he stubbed in some code for those inserts (which, again as you've ignored, do do *something*), and moved onto the great ideas. We should all be thankful as that's what makes AC/DC such a great game.

    Please excuse my ignorance yet again, but was AC/DC originally shipped without Lyman's input, or was it a bare-bones Lyman code that he finished later?

    "We" are all thankful, dude. Again: 10/10. Donated much cash to POP via the Thundertilt version at Arcade Expo 2.0. Made some San Diego operators really happy with my coin drops (shout out to Hamiltons Bar, how I miss that place). But I can still love the game and can be baffled by some of the design decisions. How come you don't get so bent out of shape about my criticism of The Hobbit?

    Quoted from markmon:

    I'm sure they do to some point. But there are points in a project where they cannot go back to the drawing board and change all the inserts.

    ...Inserts that don't have anything to do with the gameplay.

    BTW I'm pretty sure I acknowledged that the inserts do indeed do SOMETHING. But they don't relate to what is printed on the inserts.

    #506 3 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    That's also not true. They do something that is related to their printed content. It's something like this. Light fire enough times to light the canon, the top insert is flashing. If you make the canon jackpot shot, the insert is solid.

    That's perfectly communicated by "Fodder", "Volley" and "Chaos"

    Quoted from markmon:

    Perhaps I don't follow you around and read all your posts, so maybe I just don't know what your problems are with Hobbit. Or maybe your problems with Hobbit are valid. Who knows? Hobbit's not a perfect game. Feel free to link me to these posts of yours so that I can "follow up" for you.

    Well, it's just that I mentioned The Hobbit in with the post that I mentioned AC/DC, and you've been riding my ass consistently since then about the one and not the other so I was just curious. BTW, as good as AC/DC is? The Hobbit is better. Pure facts. Please to do "follow up" with me about it.

    #507 3 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    this isn't a key feature of the game

    The Cannon... isn't a key feature... of AC/DC?

    Perhaps you and I are playing two different games.

    -2
    #511 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    If ACDC's rules sucked, maybe it'd be worth discussing ...but it's got one of the best rules in pinball that can be enjoyed in various ways by various players. But ACDC's rules don't suck...so...yeah.

    How many times can one say "it's not that the game sucks, but what's with the meaningless inserts"? This is ridiculous.

    #521 3 years ago
    Quoted from Razorbak86:

    If you want the topic to die, just stop responding.

    I guess I would like to have an actual discussion about it rather than the Stern Army constantly repeating their talking points. Ain't gonna get that here though!

    BTW it pleases me to no end that one of this forums' biggest know it all trolls has me on ignore. Perfect example of someone who gleefully dishes it out but can't take it themselves.

    1 week later
    #698 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Sure it's a concern but pins on location are a dying breed. They just are.

    They might not be in every laundromat and convenience store nowadays, but there seems to be new places to play pinball popping up everywhere - not just NYC & LV. Pinballmap is constantly updating. They just aren't a dying breed.

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