(Topic ID: 172477)

I've been a long time Stern Pinball fan, but I'm done with them.

By jar155

7 years ago


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    #644 7 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    I have nothing against new collectors.
    I continue to assist many proteges for technical, purchasing, or collection reasons.
    The issue with the concept of "investment" is that feeds unnecessary inflationary cost of machines, and reinforces manufacturer advertising.
    It promotes misunderstanding by new owners, not directed to operators.
    Many new owners really don't know what games are actually worth realistically.
    This is extremely detrimental to the long term health of the hobby.
    It happened the last time at the end of 2005 and early 2006, and the market stalled.
    It also promotes the concept that machines are worth more nearly immediately after they are removed from their box (within 6 months) which starts to sound ridiculous in other markets for no logical reason, especially when titles are still being produced.
    This is why the this market is partially off the charts right now, until it calms down again.
    This is completely relevant to THIS THREAD.
    Stern would not have been able to "raise the bar" again with BM66 SLE without this concept in mind for advertising and have pitched since their reintroduction to the market in 2001.
    Way too much history to go into in a single post, because Stern had to switch strategies to survive.
    Recently, Stern is literally "banking" on this concept, and raising the roof with every single release.
    The rest of the manufacturers have to follow suit to different degrees.
    How can you go from a Honda Civic to a low end Ferrari in terms of % increase of price and the quality continues to decrease or features remain unremarkable in terms of comparison?
    Part of the problem is price speculation as an "investment".
    The other is Stern has to market out the "speculation" so they acquire the flipping profit % increase.
    Does anyone believe that the "preorder resale resales" did not occur out of at least some aspect of term "investment"?
    Of course they did.
    That is why people made preorders and then "flipped" the prior to delivery or even construction, which they never even owned the game.
    What was the ultimate result?
    Game price was increased IMMEDIATELY by $1000-3000 NIB, even though the game has not even left the factory!
    Does this allow the market to be healthy?
    Operators clearly know this market is not becoming an type of "investment" if it takes 8-10 years to recoup a purchase, versus the previous standard 3-4 years on average.
    They simply stop buying machines, which they are.
    $10+K for a pinball machine on a route is simply atrocious, except in high end venues, considering technical service and repair required, not just the actual base cost.
    Notice what I just said.
    Cost (or value) is based on initial cost+income benefit+parts+repair to operators.
    It simply does not add up.
    Ultimately, this direct term actually hurts private enthusiasts that are looking to get into the hobby.
    That is the current market.
    So...
    It also cause a long term negative impact, and sales reverse as a result, the games simply do not sell and people move on.
    Granted, eventually the market begins to deflate, but not at the same rate as the number of people who decided to "pass".
    I like people to get a fair market value for any machine they are looking to purchase, as they they can own MORE machines.
    I do mean that, because what the fair market may be based on collector interest, age, condition, or title whatever it may actually be, it might be high, or it might be low, but not "just because it's an investment".
    This makes about as much sense as saying Punchy the Clown should be "expensive" because it is "rare".
    People have to read more into my explanations, because it is not exclusive to price or quality, but wording.
    In summary, abusing terms such as "investment" lead to a market role reversal, and ultimately large market problems.
    The center does not hold.
    I should own multiple pinball t-shirts that say, "I survived the last pinball market stall from Stern, WMS, Gottlieb, etc."
    If a person is a pure operator/dealer/broker/distributor, games are inventory, games are investments to them, and private owners remain enthusiasts unless they have decided to become private investors with a manufacturer.
    I think I should "invest" in Stern today after this discussion!
    There is no way but up right?
    Unfortunately, they are not listed on NASDAQ.
    Damn.
    Hmmm....
    If a hobbyist does not agree with me, no problem.
    There is a reason why many countries have free speech in their constitution.

    Logorrhea. Look it up.

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