(Topic ID: 172477)

I've been a long time Stern Pinball fan, but I'm done with them.


By jar155

3 years ago



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    There are 767 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 16.
    #201 3 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    It amazes me that many people have already forgotten Stern's "future plans" so quickly.
    They are/were planning on opening the "Stern Store" in PA in 2017, and had plans for other state locations next year as well.
    "Test business opportunities" to see if the concept was beneficial, one step at a time.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-store-coming-to-pennsylvania
    It was not some sort of troll post, like so many people originally thought.
    It was not a "franchise".
    No distributor involvement there either.
    The "middle man" was completely gone.
    Will the prices be lowered? Highly unlikely.
    Does it significantly increase profit margins? Yes.
    Stern is preparing for the next iteration of the market changes in order to ensure their success, including periods of industry stagnation caused by their own decisions.
    Just recognize this tiny niche world can be cutthroat due to the fickle nature of the buyers whether private or operator.
    This also includes innovation, design, and electronics.
    One fart in the wrong direction, can cause eventual collapse of the deck of cards, resulting in a "hibernation effect" of the entire industry.
    People must give Stern credit for exploring every option to generate additional income, because happy times do not last forever.
    As I stated, new collectors simply won't care what happened in the past, and it that is perfectly acceptable, not that think it is particularly smart. I like free choice, opportunities, and speech, as that is what I fought to protect regarding freedoms.
    What I don't like is dismissing that "things never ever happened before in the history of pinball" in order to justify some sort of argument, purchase, or epeen. That just implies willful ignorance.
    "Knowledge and education provides respect of the past, understanding of the present, and predictions of future."
    If people use it, owners can avoid problems.
    Unfortunately, most people that buy pinball machines simply are not hobbyist, related to the industry, on forums, or even interested in whatever developments may occur.
    Less than 10% of the entire pinball owners even probably reads PinSide, even Facebook has a better audience.
    It is time for many to step away from the ratrace of NIB machines again, and not exclusively due to pricing.

    SO Stern are exploring the vertical model, like so many brands/manufacturers these days.

    They have a long way to go before they are capable of direct relationships with customers. I hope the cost of that is budgeted into their modelling for a retail arm.

    13
    #202 3 years ago
    Quoted from yuriijos:

    I'm with ya bro. Their increasing prices is just getting to be too much. Lack of completed code and quality issues doesn't help either.

    IMO the price is not as big an issue for me its the other things we've said, lack of code. I could go along with the price if Stern was doing something to justify the price rather than strip out as much basic features as possible.

    Am I spoiled to expect excellent code for multi thousand dollar new pins? Stern has made Tspp and LOTR and JJP apparently knocked it out of the park with Woz so it is possible to code a game properly. Heck even recent Stern (some) are outstanding but it's totally hit or miss and to me Code is the key. It's like a billion dollar rocket sent to Mars is useless if they put in the wrong coordinates. Same thing when XM shipped basic score keeping was absent, the update had so many bugs one of which was every shot would lead to Wolveriene call out. I mean what is that? Is this amature hour? Are we expected to be the lab rats and pay for on the job training of people that can't code their way out of a paper bag?

    XM took *TWO* years to get a working code, and even then the code was acceptable but not great. Numerous issues with games that need to be ajusted or jury rigged by the home users. TAV (hulk). XM (Wolverne figurine). GOT (orbit issues). Metallica coffin lock issues.

    heck even they can't get drop targets to work properly out of the box. Instead of fixing later runs they'll just offer a service bulletin.

    I'm sure there are many other issues too numerous to go into.

    Code with bugs (that are noted and not addressed)

    Getting to Batman, Stern has released a picture of the PF with ramp flap extending over the artwork. It's just preposterous. If this was a third grade art project I'd say ok but this is a multimillion dollar corporation for a game costing as much as a small car. Also while a $4700 pin like ST pro can have 6-7 color changing inserts (while ST premium has 30-40 color changing inserts) that makes sense to me. But Batman premium costs as much as STLE and Batman LE costs almost $2000 more than GOT LE which has full color inserts yet premium, LE and SLE apparently have all of 6 color changing inserts. That's to me utter crap.

    I'd suggest Stern start with a suggestion box and not just that but actually look at the suggestions and do something substantial regarding those suggestions. Stop being so arrogant like charging for their birthday bash and by cutting off Pinball News if they happen to question the pricing practices or by raising the number of SLE although if it was up to common sense not a one of these would have sold, NOT A ONE.

    There's as old saying: Pride goes before the fall.

    #203 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I have been very disappointed in the quality and price of food McDonalds has been selling for the last several years. But instead of just not going there anymore, I might have to make it my crusade to spread the word and see how many other people I can get on the boycott bandwagon.

    Hey o-din, don't worry, Millennials don't eat Big Macs anymore.

    #204 3 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    I hope the cost of that is budgeted into their modelling for a retail arm.

    They're just waiting to see how this book goes first, then they will try to crowd fund the cost of a retail store lol

    #205 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    IMO the price is not as big an issue for me its the other things we've said, lack of code. I could go along with the price if Stern was doing something to justify the price rather than strip out as much basic features as possible.
    Am I spoiled to expect excellent code for multi thousand dollar new pins? Stern has made Tspp and LOTR and JJP apparently knocked it out of the park with Woz so it is possible to code a game properly. Heck even recent Stern (some) are outstanding but it's totally hit or miss and to me Code is the key. It's like a billion dollar rocket sent to Mars is useless if they put in the wrong coordinates. Same thing when XM shipped basic score keeping was absent, the update had so many bugs one of which was every shot would lead to Wolveriene call out. I mean what is that? Is this amature hour? Are we expected to be the lab rats and pay for on the job training of people that can't code their way out of a paper bag?
    XM took *TWO* years to get a working code, and even then the code was acceptable but not great. Numerous issues with games that need to be ajusted or jury rigged by the home users. TAV (hulk). XM (Wolverne figurine). GOT (orbit issues). Metallica coffin lock issues.
    heck even they can't get drop targets to work properly out of the box. Instead of fixing later runs they'll just offer a service bulletin.
    I'm sure there are many other issues too numerous to go into.
    Code with bugs (that are noted and not addressed)
    Getting to Batman, Stern has released a picture of the PF with ramp flap extending over the artwork. It's just preposterous. If this was a third grade art project I'd say ok but this is a multimillion dollar corporation for a game costing as much as a small car. Also while a $4700 pin like ST pro can have 6-7 color changing inserts (while the premium has dozens of color changing inserts) that's acceptable to me. But when Batman premium now costs as much as STLE and Batman LE costs almost $2000 more than GOT LE which also has full color inserts yet premium, LE and SLE apparently have all of 6 color changing inserts. That's to me utter crap.
    I'd suggest Stern start with a suggestion box and not just that but actually look at the suggestions and do something substantial regarding those suggestions. Stop being so arrogant like charging for their birthday bash and by cutting off Pinball Naews if they happen to question the pricing practices or by raising the number of SLE although if it was up to common sense not a one of these would have sold, NOT A ONE.
    There's as old saying: say Pride goes before the fall.

    This is my biggest problem with Stern's pricing increases.

    STLE was a $7500 machine that clearly had some awesome LE features like the star field laser trick, LED lit armor, stainless speaker/DMD panel, LED flashes for backglass and head, etc etc.

    Now they charge thousands more and give you even less then some premium offerings!

    At least with something like cars and motorcycles that have gone up in price, you also get more value- better technology, features, safety, warranty, etc. The buyer gets more while also paying more. Yes, the cargument makes sense as people compare automobile pricing to inflation. That seems to be the reasoning for pinball prices going up, right? Because inflation? If it's not because of that, it's just pure greed and that's it.

    Not only has Stern jacked the price up, now they are experimenting the direct-to-consumer sales tactic with BM66SLE.

    So, here is how 'carguments' are relative and Stern is proud of it:

    Ford releases application for 'opportunity' to purchase limited production run of 2017 Ford GT

    Stern releases application for 'opportunity' to purchase limited production run of BM66 SLE

    Tesla sales direct to customers, eliminating dealer model

    Stern now experimenting with direct to consumer sales, potentially eliminating dealer model

    I'm sure there are other comparisons. Fact is, there's a significant move being made to inflate the bottom line at Stern in what I think is a way to balloon the valuation before a potential sale at what appears to be "peak-pinball" IMO.

    At the end of the day, I truly think Stern has tried to move too fast and too far for their own good, and it may bite them right on the ass in 2017.

    #206 3 years ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    Price and quality aside; it's sterns consistent lack of code development, polish, and updates that puts a sour apple in my mouth.
    Great designs and good rules can only go so far without a commitment to code support.

    Guess you said with a few dozen words what I was trying to say with hundreds. This is so true, and Stern will just flat out not finish some code. Or there can be a roadblock or not often encountered end of the line in a game and Stern could care less. Big FU. Can have inserts on a Pf that don't represent anything in the game, another big FU.

    #207 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I have been very disappointed in the quality and price of food McDonalds has been selling for the last several years. But instead of just not going there anymore, I might have to make it my crusade to spread the word and see how many other people I can get on the boycott bandwagon.

    You summed up this thread perfectly my friend.

    #208 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I have been very disappointed in the quality and price of food McDonalds has been selling for the last several years. But instead of just not going there anymore, I might have to make it my crusade to spread the word and see how many other people I can get on the boycott bandwagon.

    Mickey D's breakfast is AWESOME! Sausage McMuffins with egg with hot sauce.

    #209 3 years ago

    What goes up must come down...

    #210 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Stern Pinball is abusive. They're absolutely antagonistic in this hobby. They threaten parts suppliers ....

    And given that you enthusiastically bought a GBLE from this evil abusive company, I can only assume that you did not have this information prior to the purchase, correct?

    #211 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Getting to Batman, Stern has released a picture of the PF with ramp flap extending over the artwork. It's just preposterous.

    Maybe they'll make the ramp flaps out of that fancy transparent aluminum that Scotty invented when he went back in time in Star Trek IV.

    Flaps over artwork problem solved. That could also explain the higher price, transparent aluminum is very expensive.

    #212 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Mickey D's breakfast is AWESOME! Sausage McMuffins with egg with hot sauce.

    Steak, egg, and cheese bagel, substitute round ( real) egg, no onions, add BACON, white cheddar cheese...every other day....EVERY other day...killer...

    #213 3 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    And given that you enthusiastically bought a GBLE from this evil abusive company, I can only assume that you did not have this information prior to the purchase, correct?

    I found out about that later, yes. What does it matter to you? I have hit my breaking point with them. That's all that really matters at this point.

    #214 3 years ago

    It all changed with the arrival of Jody Dankberg who told Gary Stern he wasn't charging enough for his machines. Then making different versions of the same machine with more/less features at different price points.

    #215 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Sausage McMuffins with egg with hot sauce.

    The day your Batman SuperLE arrives, get two.

    -2
    #216 3 years ago

    So this is my opinion. I started the pinball hobby in September and i was infatuated in with tmnt and stern pinballs. I currently own a TSPP and me and all my friends and what-not think its an absolute fantastic game. After going to york show i was blown away by some of the william and bally pins. Champion pub was amazing easily my favorite, later that day i got to play a walking dead pro(Guessing the base model)It felt so bare bones and lacking like pinball was heading into dlc route. I couldn't believe they were asking so much for so little especially you could get numerous other pins that cost less. The more ive been playing and researching stern titles the more ive become disappointed in them. Avengers looks terrible, Shrek\family guy layout seems empty aside from mini playfield. I really wanted MMR but with all the recent problems im going to funnel my money towards a monster bash. I do want a spiderman-ve but i definitely wont buy that new. Stern gonna keep pumping out half finished games because thats the direction the world is moving in. Video games=sell us half a game purchase the rest through dlc, game unplayable give me a couple months to send out an update. People are mad and i understand but if your mad why continue to buy NIB. Bunches of people have said they are done after they already bought. Seems counter-intuitive to be like "I hate stern but i just bought a NIB last week"

    #217 3 years ago

    I love the McDonalds comparison to Stern!

    In fact, last year McDonalds revenue plunged year-over-year due to mediocre food priced way too high:

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/23/investing/mcdonalds-earnings-sales-down/

    This is what can happen to Stern too.. maybe they need to see what happened with McDonald's.. they thought people would keep lining up in the drive thru's paying top dollar for shit food.. then customers went elsewhere, and it reflected on their earnings.

    #218 3 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Steak, egg, and cheese bagel, substitute round ( real) egg, no onions, add BACON, white cheddar cheese...every other day....EVERY other day...killer...

    Do you call that the heart attack sandwich?

    -1
    #219 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I found out about that later, yes. What does it matter to you? I have hit my breaking point with them. That's all that really matters at this point.

    Ok

    Good luck with your crusade.

    #220 3 years ago

    If anyone hasn't listened to broken token this month (ep 47), about 66 minutes in they begin talking about Ghostbusters and the bad taste they got from the quality issues (and hassle of getting the right stickers)
    https://www.brokentoken.com/podcast-episodes/episode-47-theres-a-head-stuck-in-your-coin-door/

    11
    #221 3 years ago

    I wouldn't say I'm done with Stern, but maybe on a break for a while to see what unfolds. I have quite a few Sterns and really like them. TronLE, GBLE, TWDLE, STLE, MET Prem, IMVE, and ACDC Prem.

    However, dramatically rising prices without increased value and new competition have me looking the other way right now.

    - I decided to get a WH20 as my next pin and may explore older titles for a while.

    - Alien looks awesome to me and I'm looking forward to taking a close look at that when they are available.

    - If Dutch Pinball can TBL out in real numbers I will get one. I'm not preordering.

    - Dialed in looks fun

    Stern's actions lately have just left a bad taste in my mouth. If they want to raise prices they need to deliver a superior product.

    #222 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dutchman2009:

    It all changed with the arrival of Jody Dankberg who told Gary Stern he wasn't charging enough for his machines. Then making different versions of the same machine with more/less features at different price points.

    It was meat patties in a drawer instead of hot off the grill and the McRib VE that pushed me over the edge.

    #223 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    Not only has Stern jacked the price up, now they are experimenting the direct-to-consumer sales tactic with BM66SLE.
    So, here is how 'carguments' are relative and Stern is proud of it:
    Ford releases application for 'opportunity' to purchase limited production run of 2017 Ford GT
    Stern releases application for 'opportunity' to purchase limited production run of BM66 SLE
    Tesla sales direct to customers, eliminating dealer model
    Stern now experimenting with direct to consumer sales, potentially eliminating dealer model

    This is how many industries are going. Laptop computers, video games, movies, television shows, comic books, sports, and so on. Major League Baseball and the National Football League want their own networks. Sony wants to sell their games through their digital store and not through Gamestop. Tesla wants their cars right to consumers. HBO and Netflix want to own their content, channel, and stores. Disney owns half of the entertainment industry.

    Every shopping mall near me is either dead or on life support. I buy everything but groceries online. And the only grocery stores are major chains. The day of the independent local store or distributor is vanishing. Or it's already dead.

    I couldn't imagine Stern not already having explored doing direct sales. I'm betting that they are already examining their distributor contracts and relationships and looking to transition into a direct sales model within the next few years. Phasing the LE and Super LE models into direct sales might be the first stage or they might go all in with direct sales on one pin to see how it works. If Stern sees money in it they'll certainly go for it.

    #224 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I've been in this hobby for over a decade, and all that time I have done my best to support Stern Pinball. I have defended the tough decisions they had to make in the down years, and I've tried to stay patient in recent years. I've spent lots of money on their games, but I have purchased my last NIB Stern Pinball machine and official Stern product (mods, accessories, etc.).
    If you want the long story, I wrote an article about it, here: http://gamertheory.com/article.aspx/505/Stern-Pinball-has-turned-its-back-on-the-pinball-hobbyist/
    If you want the tl;dr, I basically feel like Stern Pinball has lost its way and has turned its back on the hobbyists and collectors that kept them alive through their lean years. Quality of components has gone down, quality control has plummeted, but prices are far outpacing inflation. Stern is difficult to communicate with, and they only care about your wallet. Until practices dramatically change, I'm done supporting Stern Pinball in any fashion. These couple of statements from my article about sum it up:
    "Stern's price increases are severely outpacing inflation. Stern's quality control has noticeably slipped over the years, and the ever cheapening of components and process is seeing problems with cabinet decals peeling, playfields chipping, electronic components failing, and mechanical failing or acting in unreliable fashion prematurely. You are paying more for a product that is becoming more problematic. [...] Stern doesn't care about you, they care about how many zeroes they can knock off the end of your bank account statement.
    We want to be customers, not a sketchy salesman's mark. So Stern, you may have kept the lights on in the manufacturing plant, but we were the ones that paid for the electric bill. It's a shame how easily you have forgotten, or worse, try to ignore that fact."

    100+ upvotes..Wow! Don't recall ever seeing such a thing here...I hope they see this and consider it.

    Unfortunately, Even if all 100 of those people walk on Stern & we toss another 100 on top of that for good measure...Star Wars will still sell like no other, maybe even so good as to deal a death blow to one of the other mfr's if timed correctly. And they know this.

    #225 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    Do you call that the heart attack sandwich?

    that or "the artery clogger"

    #226 3 years ago

    I seem to recall Stern over the last few years being really proud and boasting of their social media follower numbers. I wonder if we could stage a Pinside walk off where we setup a date and everyone together unjoins Stern's social media. I think we could make a pretty good dent in their precious numbers...

    #227 3 years ago
    Quoted from ledge:

    "the artery clogger"

    There's only one cure for that. "The Artery Unclogger".

    th (resized).jpg

    #228 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    I love the McDonalds comparison to Stern!
    In fact, last year McDonalds revenue plunged year-over-year due to mediocre food priced way too high:
    http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/23/investing/mcdonalds-earnings-sales-down/
    This is what can happen to Stern too.. maybe they need to see what happened with McDonald's.. they thought people would keep lining up in the drive thru's paying top dollar for shit food.. then customers went elsewhere, and it reflected on their earnings.

    Well that could be the way to go....People love burgers and are willing to pay extra for a good burger - so you see a lot of homemade, real burger places popping up (at least here in Europe). We are done with the fast food, it will be around but there is a market for some quality burgers. Same with Pinball. I think you can charge some extra if you deliver a beauty of a machine, with great code and theme. Alien can be that pin, TBL can be that pin. Only we just have to adjust that we not get that directly. You have to wait a bit longer for your homemade burger instead of the 1 minute Big Mac.

    11
    #229 3 years ago

    I think all of us haven't touched on something most important. The expo launched Batman 1966, Dialed in and Alien. Did anyone notice
    that Batman 1966 looked pretty and gleaming with LED's? Sure you did. Did you notice the price tags? (IM SURE YOU DID). Did you notice
    the big marketing around batman with Adam West being there? Of course! Now, let's come to terms with something. Beautiful game, nice
    theme, great artwork, relates to us guys who are in the money making stage of our lives so we can buy it right? Sure! So everyone who
    bought this machine bought the following:

    Nice art package
    Theme recognition
    A machine that is rethemed from Batman Dark Knight which has plummeted in value.

    Interestingly enough. Those who bought Batman 66 were "NOT ABLE TO PLAY IT". Why? Because there is not code! This is a pattern
    happening with all Stern games. Beautiful artwork and unfinished code. You're buying an expensive looking box!

    Next, you have Dialed in and Alien out there and the games work and guest what "YOU CAN PLAY THEM". Shouldn't you have an up and
    running machine for an Expo? Yes! Hopefully you can see that Stern is churning out expensive boxes of art and everyone is buying them
    without playing them. Then you have to wait for code to complete because their assembly line is most important. Hey, how about finishing
    up all those games that still need code so the games are playable and change your practice to code games prior to release so the
    end user knows what they are getting. Look at all the Williams and Bally titles that were released. Guess what, the same programmers
    are still employed with Stern and were able to get the games coded and machines completed due to Williams good business practices.
    Look at the revisions of roms. You'll see that there are some but not many. And guess what, the quality of the Bally/Willams games are
    so good that those games are still being played today. Let's look at Gottlieb and older Stern games. Hell, let's look at all pinball manufacturers back in the day. The games were shipped completed and ready to play The more people feed into buying expensive boxes
    with unfinished code, the more prices will increase and more fools will be born.

    #230 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Stern's price increases are severely outpacing inflation.

    I so agree with you 100%

    I will never buy a nib again from Stern also.

    #231 3 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    If anyone hasn't listened to broken token this month (ep 47), about 70 minutes in they begin talking about Ghostbusters and the bad taste they got from the quality issues (and hassle of getting the right stickers)
    https://www.brokentoken.com/podcast-episodes/episode-47-theres-a-head-stuck-in-your-coin-door/

    Interesting listen

    13
    #232 3 years ago

    Here is what my $8K got me with Stern... which some can see why I find it hilarious they are raising prices, yet who knows when I'll get a replacement playfield or if the issues have been fixed. Was playing GB LE last night, and more of my playfield or some piece of the machine broke off again and stopped in the shooter lane that I had to remove the glass to take the piece out. It's becoming a pretty common thing to see pieces of playfield scattered around lol. Notice the bare wood and lack of clear coat in the shooter lane too? Sorry, have to laugh that after this their solution was to jack up prices for their products.

    IMG_3028 (resized).JPG

    #233 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    Here is what my $8K got me with Stern...

    What a bummer man.

    #234 3 years ago

    Good point, many people keep games less than 2 years. In many cases the game codes are not even finished in 2 years. I believe TF was updated 4 years after release.

    Sometimes the game is out of production before the code is done and often known bugs are not addressed.

    #235 3 years ago

    Bang for buck ratio is what matters to me:
    - is the game fun to play
    - is the game in good condition
    - nice artwork
    - is the game reliable or a constant source of headaches
    At current offerings and prices there are much better deals in the secondary market than NIB. That's all that matters to me. Once quality and prices improve I will be buying NIB again.

    #236 3 years ago

    Still waiting for Xmen to be finished. The game basically ends after Dark Phoenix and Danger Room. It would take very minimal effort to fix the problem. Basically reset the heros and villains and your done

    Quoted from rai:

    Good point, many people keep games less than 2 years. In many cases the game codes are not even finished in 2 years. I believe TF was updated 4 years after release.
    Sometimes the game is out of production before the code is done and often known bugs are not addressed.

    #237 3 years ago
    Quoted from Monster_Bash:

    Still waiting for Xmen to be finished. The game basically ends after Dark Phoenix and Danger Room. It would take very minimal effort to fix the problem. Basically reset the heros and villains and your done

    It's a joke Stern doesn't care about collectors. People will say old games have bugs too but the difference is Stern is still in business, more games go to collectors where the bugs are apparent and Stern has a ready distribution method to upgrade the code.

    ST has a similar bug apparently that locks you out of a wizard mode.

    I have 3 games from Stern from a decade ago without shooter lane wear or insert issues. Also complete code.

    I would have called myself a great customer buying 4 NIB from Stern over 2.5 years but after STLE code still needs something and IMVE decals not 100% secure. On top of XMLE code debacle. I could be done with Stern, unless they do more especially code related.

    #238 3 years ago

    Here is your 2 yr chart of MCD, despite a recent dip it's up 20% and pays a 3.35% dividend thank you very much!

    You can see the price spike when all day breakfast was announced. Now if Stern paid a dividend like that?

    Screen Shot 2016-11-03 at 9.54.31 AM (resized).png

    #239 3 years ago

    "Stern has no reason to care about collectors when they only remain in the hobby for less than five years, and own purchased games for an even shorter amount of time."

    (The supported planned lifecycle of the Stern game design is less than 10 years, and private game ownership is averaged at under 2 years. Operator averages in the past were approximately 4 years to recoup their purchase and gain earnings, but are beginning to reshorten again as they decide to sell their stock and remove pinball as a routed amusement device)

    This is not a top secret negative conspiracy or crapping on new owners, it is just the development model for games and Stern understanding their market, no different than when games were designed for operators.

    Private owners are the new operators and games are designed accordingly.
    The difference is that operators as a whole knew what they were buying, and what to expect in terms of performance and quality.
    Operators had a serious vested interest in trying to get a sustainable product that could generate income, not just a toy. In addition, many knew how to repair games, even if they only sometimes expended minimal effort but they did want something commercially durable. There is no reason to improve anything as long as games continue to sell exceptionally well to uniformed consumers.
    Basic features will continue to be removed from games under construct of being "unnecessary" requirements. When new owners get bored of their toys or they simply don't "work right anymore", they dump them, and move onto something else, including the hobby itself.

    #240 3 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    "Stern has no reason to care about collectors when they only remain in the hobby for five years or less."
    (The approximate supported lifecycle of the game)

    Where is this quote from?

    #241 3 years ago

    Why is Stern going to sell a shit ton of Star Wars pins?

    Because they piss on customers and are a shit company?

    People are already climbing all over each other to get on a distributor list to be able to buy an LE. Some of you guys are delusional.

    And then when Pulp Fiction and Iron Maiden rolls out next year too, the same old cries of "take my money please" will be loud and clear.

    Watch it happen.

    #242 3 years ago

    Here's what Stern should do. Find 5 Pinsiders it thinks has some knowledge and "street smarts" about Pinball. Make a video conference call and get some opinions, ...yell, scream, fight, make up and discuss everything.

    #243 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Why is Stern going to sell a shit ton of Star Wars pins?
    Because they piss on customers and are a shit company?
    People are already climbing all over each other to get on a distributor list to be able to buy an LE. Some of you guys are delusional.
    And then when Pulp Fiction and Iron Maiden rolls out next year too, the same old cries of "take my money please" will be loud and clear.
    Watch it happen.

    I think you are overselling the LE model. People like you have been claiming BM66LE sold out when and there are still a few available. There's already numerous bad Star Wars games, I'll pass on another. I also could care less about Iron Maiden or a 22 year old movie pin. They can keep their Aerosmith also. Pass on Jaws and all the other dated crap people want.

    If others want the games though that is good for them and for stern. There's no value there for me though. I can have fun a lot cheaper.

    17
    #244 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Why is Stern going to sell a shit ton of Star Wars pins?
    Because they piss on customers and are a shit company?
    People are already climbing all over each other to get on a distributor list to be able to buy an LE. Some of you guys are delusional.
    And then when Pulp Fiction and Iron Maiden rolls out next year too, the same old cries of "take my money please" will be loud and clear.
    Watch it happen.

    I hope you are right. For the first time since I can remember, nobody I know in pinball is ordering BM66 in any form and only a couple ordered GB in any form. I honestly don't care what distributors are saying since they all said KISS was the fastest selling Stern of all time and now many of them are sitting on stacks of LE models.

    I think the pricing model, code releases (lack of), and reduction in quality of their machines will be coming home to roost over the next couple of years unless they do something to turn things around.

    As for Star Wars, I for one am not very excited about what will probably be a two ramp game with a shaking Millennium Falcon in the middle of the playfield, call outs from some guy with a southern accent, and a code release schedule into 2020.

    I would like to know how many of the 80 customers have/will pay for their BM66SLE in full. Its one thing to send in a video and verbally commit, its another thing to do the wire transfer.

    Again, I hope you are right and I am wrong. The only thing I can do to help Stern survive is buy more of their games and that isn't happening anytime soon and I can afford them.

    #245 3 years ago
    Quoted from gearheaddropping:

    I hope you are right. For the first time since I can remember, nobody I know in pinball is ordering BM66 in any form and only a couple ordered GB in any form. .

    Yeah, nobody bought Ghostbusters. Game was surely a flop.

    #246 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yeah, nobody bought Ghostbusters. Game was surely a flop.

    Yeah. I was also scratching my head on that comment.

    #247 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I just don't trust Stern's motives right now. 30 SLEs were once a "thank you" and an appreciation gesture but they're now 80 "don't leave a penny behind" tactic. Appreciation was short lived in the face of a few more dollars.

    Been noticing the downfall for well over a year now. It's really agonizing and disheartening. While there's zero we can do about Stern's quality control, which obviously continues to fall on deaf ears, The only thing these monopolistic pricks will understand is if their bottom line is effected.

    Make a statement with your wallet. It really can't be just a few of us either to make them stand up and take notice. I sure have and its been liberating to take a step back from the madness. Mid 90's Bally Williams pins are looking pretty sweet to me now. The PinFlation bubble has already reared its ugly head. Pay attention to the signs. 2017 will be a day long remembered for the rebellion. We all remember what happened to the Empire right?

    #248 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    Here is what my $8K got me with Stern... which some can see why I find it hilarious they are raising prices, yet who knows when I'll get a replacement playfield or if the issues have been fixed. Was playing GB LE last night, and more of my playfield or some piece of the machine broke off again and stopped in the shooter lane that I had to remove the glass to take the piece out. It's becoming a pretty common thing to see pieces of playfield scattered around lol. Notice the bare wood and lack of clear coat in the shooter lane too? Sorry, have to laugh that after this their solution was to jack up prices for their products.

    Would be nice if a premium clear job was at least an option.. although it should be standard on anything over pro.

    #249 3 years ago
    Quoted from DennisDodel:

    Yeah. I was also scratching my head on that comment.

    People on Pinside REALLY believe that if they poll their 6 pinball friends, or see which way the winds are blowing on here, they have an accurate grasp on what is actually happening in the pinball industry. As has been stated many times, the majority of pinball buyers are not here.

    #250 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    Here is what my $8K got me with Stern... which some can see why I find it hilarious they are raising prices, yet who knows when I'll get a replacement playfield or if the issues have been fixed. Was playing GB LE last night, and more of my playfield or some piece of the machine broke off again and stopped in the shooter lane that I had to remove the glass to take the piece out. It's becoming a pretty common thing to see pieces of playfield scattered around lol. Notice the bare wood and lack of clear coat in the shooter lane too? Sorry, have to laugh that after this their solution was to jack up prices for their products.

    Well, they may be doing fine but they are losing sales bit by bit. I love GB Premium but with price increases and QC issues I will resist. Better QC and a lower price and it would be ordered.

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