(Topic ID: 172477)

I've been a long time Stern Pinball fan, but I'm done with them.


By jar155

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 767 posts
  • 195 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by kpg
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 53 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    daytona (resized).jpg
    Unknown-1 (resized).jpeg
    Stern Toilet Paper Dispenser (resized).jpg
    Stern Store 2 (resized).jpg
    IMG_0716 (resized).jpg
    IMG_0709 (resized).jpg
    IMG_0707 (resized).jpg
    IMG_0726 (resized).jpg
    service-with-a-smile1 (resized).png
    IMG_2526 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2525 (resized).JPG
    Unknown-1 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_2524 (resized).JPG
    airplane_the_movie-25482 (resized).jpg
    588f2 (resized).jpg
    image-8 (1) (resized).jpg

    There are 767 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 16.
    #151 2 years ago
    Quoted from Cadespa:

    Stern makes a luxury good. Luxury goods don't care what inflation looks like, it's simple supply and demand. Luxury items create their own special markets.

    Speculators buy everything with no intention of keeping anything, similar to StubHub. They have the fastest computer or the best hookups and will make enough money from presales to cover any losses from what ends up being a dog. Even the dogs will find a home due to geography and demand. Reminds me of IPOs where an extremely limited number of people have dibs to the first offerings.

    Collectors buy games in hopes of them becoming Collector's Items. Franklin Mint, Precious Moments, etc. all have their own secondary markets that only those collectors value. Collectors sell items amongst themselves or to hobbyists or someone like me who just wants to have a couple machines for entertainment. Collectors range from day traders to 401k holders and no matter where they fall in that range they expect to make a profit over the long run.

    You are talking about the LE buyers, not pinball in general. I have a pinball collection because the closest pinball on location is 7 miles away, and very rarely anything gets rotated. If I want to play the latest Stern, I have to drive downtown (easily a 90 minute drive plus a hassle to find parking). Being a hobbyist almost isn't a choice if you want to play pinball. You gain a collection so you can have people over, so they will in turn also invite you over. I'm not in it for the investment, I just want to play pinball.. And if companies like Stern continue to make it a painful experience for everyone, it's not going to be fun anymore and people will just quit the hobby and pursue something else. There are plenty of other fun things to spend money on, it's not like pinball is the last bastion of entertainment.

    #152 2 years ago
    Quoted from JMK:

    I hope there is much more positivity as we enter into 2017.

    there will be positivity when Stern gets those replacement playfields shipped out.
    I guess January 2017 they start the "program" ?

    #153 2 years ago
    Quoted from ledge:

    there will be positivity when Stern gets those replacement playfields shipped out.
    I guess January 2017 they start the "program" ?

    What about all of the folks that are first time buyers that have no idea they have a defective product? Has Stern reached out to all buyers through their distributors?

    I don't think so.

    Not a feel good story for them.

    That's a real shame... they know there's a problem but they're doing their best to keep it under wraps.

    #154 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    What about all of the folks that are first time buyers that have no idea they have a defective product? Has Stern reached out to all buyers through their distributors?
    I don't think so.
    That's a real shame... they know there's a problem but they're doing their best to keep it under wraps.

    I think the real issue is that they still seem to be using some of the FUN playfields. Seems like they are picking through them and ones that look good are still being installed. As soon as the problem was found they should have stopped using them all together as it is likely that every last one of them will have ghosting issues at some point in the next few years. Stern chose to go add another supplier, they need to hold that supplier and themselves accountable for that instead of hosing their clients. Premiums are still showing up with ghosting, that's a strong signal to me that the end consumers happiness with the product is not the primary concern. They should have stopped shipping any games with those immediately and sent every last one of those playfields back.

    #155 2 years ago
    Quoted from BoJo:

    This hobby is a dick measuring contest.

    I win both. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    #156 2 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    The hate storm toward Stern has been brewing for a while. Is the $15k machine you have to get on your knees and beg for Gary's blessing to be able to purchase what finally pushes things to an adjustment point?

    Look, it's a small community. It's not a huge hobby. There is a Goliath and a handful of small volume producers. It's recovering and there is interest from younger people (thanks to Pinball Arcade for example) but the entire problem is Stern's attitude.

    I never bought a Stern NIB but many of you did. You supported Stern. The lean times indeed were very lean. Now what? You still support Stern and Stern spits on you. They not only spit in your face as a thanks for your business but go so far as having you beg for the permission for them to do so.

    Pinball is fun. Right? Right. Show appreciation toward your customers. Support the community. Bring people together. Stern has gone Hollywood and doesn't give a flying F about anything other than the bottom line. That is what is rubbing so many people the wrong way.
    Why can't Stern and their fans have a solid, mutually beneficial relationship that is not based on getting fleeced? Why is Stern so insecure that they ban people from their events who do not report things the way they want things reported? It's insane.

    The pricing we can all deal with as it will adjust on its own. The sheer greed and arrogance is something else is entirely. I hope they fall and fall hard. The competition is getting better even if Stern can't see it over the piles of cash they are making love to at the moment.

    The distributor model isolates them from actual buyers. They like it that way. They KEEP it that way. Now they regulate all pricing.

    They have distros by the nuggets.

    A distributor preorders 20 TFLEs. The game disappoints. They have to sell inventory at a loss eventually.

    Next preorder, they try to order 10. Stern says "You want to order LESS? OK, we can give you 5." Distro needs to rep to 20 regardless of title then.

    You remove that layer where they need to deal with people and the attitude changes. This won't happen BTW.

    #157 2 years ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    The distributor model isolates them from actual buyers. They like it that way. They KEEP it that way. Now they regulate all pricing.
    They have distros by the nuggets.
    A distributor preorders 20 TFLEs. The game disappoints. They have to sell inventory at a loss eventually.
    Next preorder, they try to order 10. Stern says "You want to order LESS? OK, we can give you 5." Distro needs to rep to 20 regardless of title then.
    You remove that layer where they need to deal with people and the attitude changes. This won't happen BTW.

    If the Distros all don't like it they just need to come together and refuse Stern's new pricing model...Stern needs the Distro's.

    #158 2 years ago
    Quoted from HenryWinkler:

    Once I realized that the only thing that Stern cares about is separating me from my money, I decided that it was time to move on. There's plenty of other companies out there willing to take my money for crap that I don't need... companies that don't act like they're doing me a favor taking 6k off my hands.

    Right. JJP won't act like they're doing you a favor when they take 9k off your hands, so that's clearly the way to go!

    #159 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    What about all of the folks that are first time buyers that have no idea they have a defective product? Has Stern reached out to all buyers through their distributors

    They will be in for a rude awakening when they go to sell, assuming the buyer knows what to look for. I'm sure plenty of newer collectors would assume that the ghosting is normal.

    Certainly distributors could choose to notify all of their customers, which would certainly increase loyalty from them. although would not surprise me if Stern has threatened them not to do that.

    10
    #160 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    They can't deliver $15,000 of value in a game. That's not possible. Anybody who says that they do is delusional and has no ability to put proper value to things.

    Lots of thumbs up for this, but I have to disagree with it.

    While I personally agree that there is not close to $15k of value in BM66SLE *to me*, I would never say that the people who do find $15k value in it are delusional or are unable to put proper value to things. There are numerous factors that go into determining an items value to each individual, and those factors will vary greatly on a person by person basis. This should be obvious.

    Go outside of this hobby, and think about how easy it would be for a non-pinhead to say that "they can't deliver $6000.00 of value in a pinball machine. That's not possible. Anybody who says that they do is delusional and has no ability to put proper value to things."

    Would those people be correct in that statement?

    #161 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Would those people be correct in that statement?

    Yes.

    #162 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Lots of thumbs up for this, but I have to disagree with it.
    While I personally agree that there is not close to $15k of value in BM66SLE *to me*, I would never say that the people who do find $15k value in it are delusional or are unable to put proper value to things. There are numerous factors that go into determining an items value to each individual, and those factors will vary greatly on a person by person basis. This should be obvious.
    Go outside of this hobby, and think about how easy it would be for a non-pinhead to say that "they can't deliver $6000.00 of value in a pinball machine. That's not possible. Anybody who says that they do is delusional and has no ability to put proper value to things."
    Would those people be correct in that statement?

    They all think we are crazy and they are correct. Most of us have several newer machines and many people on here have more then the average yearly income of a household setting in their game room.

    #163 2 years ago

    I've not been in the hobby too long but people have always complained about Stern's pricing, quality, features, and code. I don't get people that buy pins, get them home, and then decide if the purchase was worth it. I do get being upset at Stern but not sure why you have to ban them forever. If they can make more great games with a fair price, I am open to buying one. As prices go up, my expectations go up. If prices continue to go up and quality down then I have no problem keeping my money or buying something else.

    #164 2 years ago

    I have bought several NIB Stern pins the last few years. I will not buy any more NIB Stern pins until they fix their playfield issues. Ghosting and excessive dimples are a real issue. So I will monitor the quality comments on this site and buy again once they can deliver playfields that will not disintegrate. Would love a Ghostbusters but will not buy until this issue is resolved.

    #165 2 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I do get being upset at Stern but not sure why you have to ban them forever. If they can make more great games with a fair price, I am open to buying one. As prices go up, my expectations go up. If prices continue to go up and quality down then I have no problem keeping my money or buying something else.

    ^^^^Simple as that. Maybe Stern and JJP have harpooned themselves with this pricing, maybe not, we will see.

    #166 2 years ago

    You guys are all pissy now but when the next Game comes out Im betting most of you will buy it just like you are buying a revamped Costco Batman for stupid money. Remember that I have been saying for years that Stern is fucking its buyers up the ass and I got poo pooed for it. You are finally realizing it. But it wont last, people have short memories, just look at the people in public office and the shit they do and they still get voted in.

    #167 2 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    You guys are all pissy now but when the next Game comes out Im betting most of you will buy it just like you are buying a revamped Costco Batman for stupid money.

    Actually, I don't think most of the people complaining in this thread will be the ones buying the next release.

    There will always be buyers who aren't as price sensitive and want the latest game or must have a given theme.

    #168 2 years ago

    so I have a question.. When this public Stern store opens up on the east coast, are the floor models going to be fresh off the production floor and picked randomly, or are these going to be golden samples that work perfect? Because if it's the latter that's going to give the general public a false impression. It's going to be like a scene from falling down "in the commercials the burgers look big and juicy, what I actually get is a sad burger"

    #169 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Well, you can choose from the many options for brand new games that are cheaper than that. Provided you find a time machine.
    At $5500 still the cheapest NIB games on the market, by far.

    Ooook. Or in the real actual word where we live, I could buy one of the dozens of DMD games available under $4k used.

    #170 2 years ago

    I agree, I own 9 Stern plus SM sold so out of 18 total pins I've owned 10 Stern

    But their lack of code particularly bug fixes and basic polish have got me fed up.

    Their cost cutting such as cheap locking mechanisms on STLE for the head and lack of basic PF support.

    I always buy PF support for $60 or whatever they cost and put them on my pro pins but now I found on Met pro they stopped putting in the recieving screw hole in the PF like they had in the past, I mean it's insulting cost cutting.

    My main think is code not being completed ever and QC issues which fortunately for me have been few, but my last new pin from Stern was IMVE

    I think they're a bunch of greedy buggers with the prices they want for such things as toppers or tower mod for TWD which should have been included in the first place IMO

    #171 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Right. JJP won't act like they're doing you a favor when they take 9k off your hands, so that's clearly the way to go!

    When did I say anything about JJP? Or any other pin manufacturer at all? There are plenty of companies that treat their customers well. If I am buying crap that I don't need, it doesn't have to be a pin. I'll go buy another motorcycle, or a couple of guitars, or 20 pair of Red Wings. I will give my money to companies that treat me like a customer instead of one of their subjects.

    #172 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    so I have a question.. When this public Stern store opens up on the east coast, are the floor models going to be fresh off the production floor and picked randomly, or are these going to be golden samples that work perfect? Because if it's the latter that's going to give the general public a false impression. It's going to be like a scene from falling down "in the commercials the burgers look big and juicy, what I actually get is a sad burger"
    » YouTube video

    I have a feeling the people buying machines from a retail store likely won't know the difference.

    #173 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    are the floor models going to be fresh off the production floor and picked randomly,

    This.

    LTG : )

    #174 2 years ago
    Quoted from Collin:

    Ooook. Or in the real actual word where we live, I could buy one of the dozens of DMD games available under $4k used.

    I thought we were talking NIB here. Stern is still the cheapest option.

    #175 2 years ago

    Seems like maybe Gary Stern is behind the banning Pinball News, deleting social media posts attitude. Aren't there stories about him wanting to delete old RGP posts before being told he couldn't do that? Things might not change until he moves on.

    16
    #176 2 years ago

    Hey, I've bought $30 widget from Amazon and gotten a survey asking how I like it was there anything that could be better? Etc..

    But Stern could care less after I buy $6600 XMLE or $7700 for STLE

    It's preposterous, I can ask a question if this or that might be address in the code and I don't get a response at all.

    #177 2 years ago
    Quoted from HenryWinkler:

    When did I say anything about JJP? Or any other pin manufacturer at all? There are plenty of companies that treat their customers well. If I am buying crap that I don't need, it doesn't have to be a pin. I'll go buy another motorcycle, or a couple of guitars, or 20 pair of Red Wings. I will give my money to companies that treat me like a customer instead of one of their subjects.

    I kept reading this as "I'll go buy... 20 orders of wings" and now I'm hungry. THANKS HENRYWINKLER. loved you on Arrested Development

    #178 2 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Hey, I've bought $30 widget from Amazon and gotten a survey asking how I like it was there anything that could be better? Etc..
    But Stern could care less after I buy $6600 XMLE or $7700 for STLE
    It's preposterous, I can ask a question if this or that might be address in the code and I don't get a response at all.

    Everybody should take a page out of the Amazon customer service handbook. Simply the best.

    It's customer first, profitability second

    Does Amazon have distributors? Of course not, they are joined at the hip with the consumer, not hiding from us

    For me the coding issue is the biggest one that bugs me. Right now it's Lyman only and maybe Dwight. JJP has proven themselves to be a slam dunk on code

    It continues to blow me away how F Ing awful these guys are with their customers.

    While I'm not "done" with Stern, if I was Gomez reading this thread I'd be really concerned, even if they think things will go back to normal on the next pin release

    I think there are some real burned bridges this time around

    #179 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Everybody should take a page out of the Amazon customer service handbook. Simply the best.
    It's customer first, profitability second
    d

    I disagree with this strongly. In fact, I think Amazon should become more like Stern, and only produce and sell pinball machines.

    #180 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I disagree with this strongly. In fact, I think Amazon should become more like Stern, and only produce and sell pinball machines.

    ...with same day delivery.

    #181 2 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    ...with same day delivery.

    I'd love to see drones delivering pins from the sky. That is funny to think about.

    17
    #182 2 years ago

    Guys, don't get too wrapped up in the cost of their products. Yes, it's problematic and it's a big factor in why I'm disappointed in them. But if that was the only issue, I would just silently grumble about it and move on. It's not that simple.

    Stern Pinball is abusive. They're absolutely antagonistic in this hobby. They threaten parts suppliers into not working with competitors, they are absolutely horrible to their business "partners," they bully people openly and in private, they lie to their customers and to the media/enthusiast press, and they are hypocritical in many aspects of their business. Stern Pinball is no longer a company that I consider to be an ethical business. That's really sad, because I love pinball and they're our biggest player. Pinball would be totally different without them, but that doesn't give them a free pass to be terrible to everybody else.

    This is a hobby, and it's on the small side of the hobby spectrum. If Stern wants to keep pushing people away, it won't take long before they start feeling a painful effect from that.

    I won't call out names or specific incidents (you can find those asking around), but for anybody to say that Stern Pinball is a fair, honest company these days...well, they just don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

    There are great people at that company. Gomez, the designers, coders, and several others are trying to be great, and they do great work; but the company as a whole is an ethical mess.

    #183 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    This is a hobby, and it's on the small side of the hobby spectrum.

    This is not a Hobby for Stern, it's a business, and it has been, for 30 years.

    Once again, you have completely conflated the pinball hobby with the pinball industry.

    Stern isn't looking to make friends, it's looking to make a profit, and this has always been the case.

    The hobby side is what you make of it. If you want to make friends, go out, play pinball, go to pinball shows. If you want to buy a brand new pinball machine, go to Stern. Or don't.

    #184 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    This is not a Hobby for Stern, it's a business, and it has been, for 30 years.

    They are a business that sells to a hobbyist community. Pinball is TINY in the grand scheme of national and worldwide pastimes. I wish pinball was bigger, and I wait for it to gain relevancy once more as it slowly grows. But no, pinball is not an industry any longer. Pinball, despite an upswing in hobbyists, is on a decline in overall trend still from its peak. We see spikes in interest here and there, but it's still a very small thing. This is a bad time for pinball's top company to be acting like this towards everybody else in the space.

    hobby (resized).jpg

    Stern is acting like those trends are going the other way and that it's never going to start going down, no matter what they do.

    #185 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    but the company as a whole is an ethical mess.

    As Paul Harvey would say, "Now you know the rest of the story. Good day?!"

    None of areas mentioned are new. This has occurred at all levels since Stern returned to the industry after WMS closed. In 5 years, this same thread will be full of inactive members, and cycle begins all over again. You either accept it, or you don't. Some fanboys might even be enlightened.

    #186 2 years ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    The distributor model isolates them from actual buyers. They like it that way. They KEEP it that way. Now they regulate all pricing.

    Actually not true.
    B66SLE was 100% sold by Stern. The distributors were "cut out". You pay Stern directly; not a distributor. I've seen the emails Gary sent his 80 "lucky" buyers.
    So not only is Stern doing a big money grab with this product; but they are increasing their bottom line by cutting out the distributors cut.

    I belief that Stern may actually begin moving their non-Pro product lines to "direct to buyer" pricing model; now that they've gotten a taste of not having to provide the distributors of their cut.

    Quoted from jar155:

    Stern Pinball is no longer a company that I consider to be an ethical business. That's really sad, because I love pinball and they're our biggest player.

    Never been ethical... Gary learned it from his dad. Go back and look at how Stern ripped off CPU and board designs from Bally. And ended up getting sued. It's not an "accident" that Stern and Bally boards are basically interchangeable for almost a decade.

    #187 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Stern is acting like those trends are going the other way and that it's never going to start going down, no matter what they do.

    Ultimately the question I ask is - why should I care? The hobby will be just fine regardless.

    Pinball has "died" so many times I've lost count. And you keep talking about "ethics" and trying to convince us Stern is just filled with bad hombres who aren't nice guys. Again, why should I care?

    Bally used to be owned by the friggin' MOB for pete's sake. And they killed people!!!

    #188 2 years ago

    I have been very disappointed in the quality and price of food McDonalds has been selling for the last several years. But instead of just not going there anymore, I might have to make it my crusade to spread the word and see how many other people I can get on the boycott bandwagon.

    #189 2 years ago

    Forget Stern... Go back and get those Williams titles when quality and finished code meant something.

    24
    #190 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    And you keep talking about "ethics" and trying to convince us Stern is just filled with bad hombres who aren't nice guys. Again, why should I care?

    This is the most "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME, AS LONG AS I GET MINE" attitude one can have. Cool, bro.

    If nobody had ever called major electronics companies out on their treatment of workers in China, those companies would never have held their suppliers to higher standards. Things are still not great, but they're improving. But why should I care as long as I have my new iPhone, right?! Who cares how people in the industry are treated as long as I get mine! I mean, seriously?

    And it will eventually affect you. All it takes is an economic downturn that lasts a little too long paired with a company that has alienated just a few too many people. Stern Pinball is having an upswing now, but they should know better than anybody that things can change for the worse in pinball.

    -23
    #191 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    This is the most "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME, AS LONG AS I GET MINE" attitude one can have. Cool, bro.
    If nobody had ever called major electronics companies out on their treatment of workers in China, those companies would never have held their suppliers to higher standards. Things are still not great, but they're improving. But why should I care as long as I have my new iPhone, right?! Who cares how people in the industry are treated as long as I get mine! I mean, seriously?
    And it will eventually affect you. All it takes is an economic downturn that lasts a little too long paired with a company that has alienated just a few too many people. Stern Pinball is having an upswing now, but they should know better than anybody that things can change for the worse in pinball.

    Get a grip.

    I'm not talking about China. I'm talking about Stern pinball, and your pointless crusade to get us all to hate them because their games cost more than you think they should. That's REALLY what this is all about, which is as "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME, AS LONG AS I GET MINE" as it gets.

    #192 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Get a grip.
    I'm not talking about China. I'm talking about Stern pinball, and your pointless crusade to get us all to hate them.

    You're super bright and logical.

    -18
    #193 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    You're super bright and logical.

    You are super not acting like a drama queen because Batman costs too much.

    Your first post was simply you whining about Stern charging too much for pinball machines.

    Since that didn't go over as well as you were hoping, you are now talking about China and ethics.

    You didn't care about Stern's "ethics" until they asked $15,000 for a pinball machine. Nice crusade, bro.

    #194 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I have been very disappointed in the quality and price of food McDonalds has been selling for the last several years. But instead of just not going there anymore, I might have to make it my crusade to spread the word and see how many other people I can get on the boycott bandwagon.

    Hey buddy, no burgerments in this thread.

    #195 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You are super not acting like a drama queen because Batman costs too much.
    Your first post was simply you whining about Stern charging too much for pinball machines.
    Since that didn't go over as well as you were hoping, you are now talking about China and ethics.
    You didn't care about Stern's "ethics" until they asked $15,000 for a pinball machine. Nice crusade, bro.

    If this wasn't a message board, I would seriously wonder if you could read. I hope you're simply just skipping what I and many, many others are saying here. It's really blowing my mind that you can't put two and two together here and that you can't understand what LOTS of people are saying. Stern has done many things to aggravate their customers beyond price gouging, they compete with competitors in shady ways, and they are dishonest. You don't see how that could be bad for pinball? You don't see how the market leader in your hobby being a bad citizen isn't a good thing?

    I take it you never did very well at these as a kid, huh? Probably still don't? (It's an owl.)

    owl (resized).jpg

    #197 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Ultimately the question I ask is - why should I care? The hobby will be just fine regardless.
    Pinball has "died" so many times I've lost count. And you keep talking about "ethics" and trying to convince us Stern is just filled with bad hombres who aren't nice guys. Again, why should I care?
    Bally used to be owned by the friggin' MOB for pete's sake. And they killed people!!!

    That mob certainly made good pinball machines, got to give them that.

    #198 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    This is not a Hobby for Stern, it's a business, and it has been, for 30 years.
    Once again, you have completely conflated the pinball hobby with the pinball industry.
    Stern isn't looking to make friends, it's looking to make a profit, and this has always been the case.
    The hobby side is what you make of it. If you want to make friends, go out, play pinball, go to pinball shows. If you want to buy a brand new pinball machine, go to Stern. Or don't.

    Gary pretty much kept pinball going through the dark ages on his own. No one does that unless they love pinball. Has he made missteps along the way? Absolutely. Has he produced crap games? Certainly. He has also given us some really cool games that wouldn't otherwise exist. I give him a pass on almost anything for his accomplishments and contributions, when Williams, Sega, and Data East rolled over and peed on themselves like scared little dogs.

    But let's face it - Gary's not getting any younger. He's ceded some control of his company to a partner and is probably looking to hang it up in the near future. The more money he can make now, the better for him when he retires. He has always been thin-skinned and his attitude has never been to take care of customers - the unfinished code on games past proves that. He's only going to do what has value to him, because that's the only way he knows how to model his business. How much of this latest debacle originates from Marketing and Sales, lawyers, accountants, partners, or Gary himself? We don't know. But I seriously suspect that even if Gary left the company tomorrow, it would be business as usual - or worse, because that's the culture that the company now operates under.

    #199 2 years ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Actually not true.
    B66SLE was 100% sold by Stern. The distributors were "cut out". You pay Stern directly; not a distributor.

    It amazes me that many people have already forgotten Stern's "future plans" so quickly.
    They are/were planning on opening the "Stern Store" in PA in 2017, and had plans for other state locations next year as well.
    "Test business opportunities" to see if the concept was beneficial, one step at a time.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-store-coming-to-pennsylvania

    It was not some sort of troll post, like so many people originally thought.
    It was not a "franchise".
    No distributor involvement there either.
    The "middle man" was completely gone.
    Will the prices be lowered? Highly unlikely.
    Does it significantly increase profit margins? Yes.

    Stern is preparing for the next iteration of the market changes in order to ensure their success, including periods of industry stagnation caused by their own decisions.
    Just recognize this tiny niche world can be cutthroat due to the fickle nature of the buyers whether private or operator.
    This also includes innovation, design, and electronics.
    One fart in the wrong direction, can cause eventual collapse of the deck of cards, resulting in a "hibernation effect" of the entire industry.
    People must give Stern credit for exploring every option to generate additional income, because happy times do not last forever.

    As I stated, new collectors simply won't care what happened in the past, and it that is perfectly acceptable, not that think it is particularly smart. I like free choice, opportunities, and speech, as that is what I fought to protect regarding freedoms.
    What I don't like is dismissing that "things never ever happened before in the history of pinball" in order to justify some sort of argument, purchase, or epeen. That just implies willful ignorance.

    "Knowledge and education provides respect of the past, understanding of the present, and predictions of future."
    If people use it, owners can avoid problems.
    Unfortunately, most people that buy pinball machines simply are not hobbyist, related to the industry, on forums, or even interested in whatever developments may occur.
    Less than 10% of the entire pinball owners even probably reads PinSide, even Facebook has a better audience.

    It is time for many to step away from the rat race of NIB machines again, and not exclusively due to pricing.

    It is very hard pressed for anyone to get me to believe after so many years collecting that Stern's quality assurance, quality control, features (or reduction thereof), and pricing are comparable now to most titles made in the 1970s, 80s, or 90s either based on construction to cost, or construction and features to cost, as it just does not balance out.
    They are not even fully addressing observations of issues that are being pointed out by very knowledgeable people in some cases.
    Stern has made some very good games over the past 5 years, but they have managed to alienate a large majority of hardened old school collectors in just a few months with their myriad of decisions, that once again are not due exclusively to pricing.

    For the rest, new collectors make up their own minds what quality is worth.

    #200 2 years ago
    Quoted from Jackalwere:

    Gary pretty much kept pinball going through the dark ages on his own. No one does that unless they love pinball.

    Unless he doesn't know how to do anything other than be a figure head of a pinball company.

    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    They are were planing on opening the "Stern Store" in PA in 2017, and have plans for other state locations next year as well.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-store-coming-to-pennsylvania
    It was not some sort of troll post, like so many people originally thought.

    Wow, I missed this tidbit of information.
    Kinda glad I did... given he OP didn't understand CAPS lock.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 49.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Pixels Arcade Games
    $ 129.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 999.00
    $ 68.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinWorlds
    $ 86.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 78.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    $ 9.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 99.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 10.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Docquest Pinball Mods
    $ 2,000.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    From: $ 99.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    From: $ 175.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 15.00
    Lighting - Other
    Slap Save Creations
    $ 14.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 109.95
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Pinball Pro
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 25.00
    Displays
    Pappy's Pinball Palace
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 25.50
    $ 7,299.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    From: $ 9.99
    There are 767 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 16.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside