(Topic ID: 172477)

I've been a long time Stern Pinball fan, but I'm done with them.


By jar155

2 years ago



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    There are 767 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 16.
    #51 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Everyone should listen to George Gomez's interview on Coast to Coast Pinball (Episode 221). He's extremely dismissive at the notion of ANY serious competition... and he also outlines what Stern believes to be its target audience (although he claims that their material and processes are of a finer quality due to the heavy collectors/hobbyist slant, which obviously isn't true).

    People seem to love George, but listening to that podcast and hearing him speak elsewhere, he's clearly a company man and salesman through and through. Perhaps more than that; a true believer. This is very unlike many of the other designers that work for Stern, who are far more careful in their language generally, and avoid trying to compare their work with competitors' - which frankly will invite unfavourable comments given the prevailing views about quality at Stern, these days.

    #52 2 years ago

    It's easy to get complacent at the top. Meanwhile literally everyone else is gunning for that spot.

    16
    #53 2 years ago

    I just don't trust Stern's motives right now. 30 SLEs were once a "thank you" and an appreciation gesture but they're now 80 "don't leave a penny behind" tactic. Appreciation was short lived in the face of a few more dollars.

    36
    #54 2 years ago

    I'm done with Stern too!

    I won't ever buy another NIB Stern pin. Well, not after my BM66 Premium anyway.

    Well, maybe after Star Wars. Yeah, that's it, Star Wars will be the last NIB Stern I ever buy dammit!

    Unless the rumors of Pulp Fiction are true. I'd have to buy that one NIB too.

    BUT THAT'S IT FOR ME!!! YOU HEAR THAT STERN!!?!?! I'LL SHOW YOU!!!

    #55 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I'm done with Stern too!
    I won't ever buy another NIB Stern pin. Well, not after my BM66 Premium anyway.
    Well, maybe after Star Wars. Yeah, that's it, Star Wars will be the last NIB Stern I ever buy dammit!
    Unless the rumors of Pulp Fiction are true. I'd have to buy that one NIB too.
    BUT THAT'S IT FOR ME!!! YOU HEAR THAT STERN!!?!?! I'LL SHOW YOU!!!

    I'm right there with you. United we stand! But don't you dare snake my Pulp Fiction LE spot.

    11
    #56 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I just don't trust Stern's motives right now. 30 SLEs were once a "thank you" and an appreciation gesture but they're now 80 "don't leave a penny behind" tactic. Appreciation was short lived in the face of a few more dollars.

    This might be the dumbest "thank you" ever.

    When times are good and you want to celebrate with your customers, you don't double the price and turn it in to a market data mining exercise.

    They should have held a contest for confirmed NIB stern buyers.... and given away 30 special pins. Just imagine what kind of customer loyalty that would have bought...

    I would love to have been a fly on the wall for that marketing/production meeting.

    Crazy

    13
    #57 2 years ago

    This is what happens when you have no competition. Sure there are couple smaller outfits out there but no real competition since Williams/Bally folded. They don't have to care about you..someone else will buy it. The F-U attitude is very telling.

    Back in the day we could just go get a Williams or a Bally or even a Gottlieb...in fact, back in the 80's, no one I knew even wanted a Stern as Williams ruled the roost...then Data East. But now....my god, there is really no one to complete with, they can charge whatever they like, they can make quality cuts to whatever they like...they can ignore complaints as much as they like. Someone else will buy it.

    Until everyone says FU and boycotts them or until the rebirth of Bally or Williams or some other major player, it will never change.

    #58 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I'm done with Stern too!
    I won't ever buy another NIB Stern pin. Well, not after my BM66 Premium anyway.
    Well, maybe after Star Wars. Yeah, that's it, Star Wars will be the last NIB Stern I ever buy dammit!
    Unless the rumors of Pulp Fiction are true. I'd have to buy that one NIB too.
    BUT THAT'S IT FOR ME!!! YOU HEAR THAT STERN!!?!?! I'LL SHOW YOU!!!

    that's basically it, as long as people buy nothing will change.

    -1
    #59 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    They should have held a contest for confirmed NIB stern buyers.... and given away 30 special pins. Just imagine what kind of customer loyalty that would have bought...
    I would love to have been a fly on the wall for that marketing/production meeting.
    Crazy

    Do you think they could give away 30 pinball machines and stay in business?

    Seems unlikely.

    Times may be good compared to 2009 but I have a hard time Stern Pinball Inc. is just minting millionaires left and right.

    #60 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I'm done with Stern too!
    I won't ever buy another NIB Stern pin. Well, not after my BM66 Premium anyway.
    Well, maybe after Star Wars. Yeah, that's it, Star Wars will be the last NIB Stern I ever buy dammit!
    Unless the rumors of Pulp Fiction are true. I'd have to buy that one NIB too.
    BUT THAT'S IT FOR ME!!! YOU HEAR THAT STERN!!?!?! I'LL SHOW YOU!!!

    I used to be that guy, but can no longer justify the silly pricing and marginal quality.

    Even if they release Jaws LE (my dream theme), I'm out.

    #61 2 years ago

    Is Pulp Fiction really a rumor? I haven't heard that one. Pretty interesting, but that really sounds like more a Dutch Pinball theme.

    #62 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do you think they could give away 30 pinball machines and stay in business?
    Seems unlikely.
    Times may be good compared to 2009 but I have a hard time Stern Pinball Inc. is just minting millionaires left and right.

    There's no reason to give them away. But they certainly could have taken all of the LE preorders from distributors and drawn 30 lucky people to be upgraded to a special LE. Instead they made the 30 years of stern all about cash. I think it's great for stern in the short term. Long term I think you will see a shifting in the tide. There's always pissing and moaning about every new game, every price increase, every change in the product, etc. But this time there seems to really be a lot of fed up long term buyers.

    #63 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    I would love to have been a fly on the wall for that marketing/production meeting.

    Jared: It's gonna be EPIC I tell ya, EPIC!!! Please make sure and put EPIC!! on all of Stern's marketing info. EPIC!!

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=epic

    -25
    #64 2 years ago

    It's a free market economy. Buy if you like. Don't buy if you do not like. I love my Stern machines. Can't wait to get an Alien. And a Jjp down the road. And my Ghostbusters. Competition is coming and that's good for everyone. It's great that Stern is doing well. We WANT them to be successful and healthy. This ranting sounds like a bunch of "woe is me, the sky is falling, why don't you love me anymore" petty bull$hit.

    #65 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I'm done with Stern too!
    I won't ever buy another NIB Stern pin. Unless the rumors of Pulp Fiction are true. I'd have to buy that one NIB too.
    BUT THAT'S IT FOR ME!!! YOU HEAR THAT STERN!!?!?! I'LL SHOW YOU!!!

    Yeah me too! Stern has seen the last of my ... wait ... did you say Pulp Fiction?!

    dog-distracted-by-squirrel (resized).jpg

    #66 2 years ago

    I feel you guys who have stopped buying Sterns.

    I was getting ready to buy my first NIB, but they jacked the prices up too fast. I just can't stomach $5500, which is what the next Pro will allegedly cost. I was in for $4200-4500, but that's it. I'm the new blood they should be courting, and they've lost me.

    13
    #67 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do you think they could give away 30 pinball machines and stay in business?
    Seems unlikely.
    Times may be good compared to 2009 but I have a hard time Stern Pinball Inc. is just minting millionaires left and right.

    Of course not but the Super LE is just a cash grab and there will be more SLE's for other games in the future (the Batman 66 SLE application implied it).

    Stern's new greedy mindset was only confirmed at Expo when they didn't even pay for their own 30th anniversary party and instead charged customers $40 per ticket which didn't include food or a drink. Ridiculous. Yup, what a nice thank you. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Stern turned a profit from their Expo party, lol.

    #68 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do you think they could give away 30 pinball machines and stay in business?
    Seems unlikely.
    Times may be good compared to 2009 but I have a hard time Stern Pinball Inc. is just minting millionaires left and right.

    Giveaway 5 then. Make it fun... make it an event. Celebrate your customer base

    #69 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Giveaway 5 then. Make it fun... make it an event. Celebrate your customer base

    It's a form of celebration

    shakedown (resized).jpg

    #70 2 years ago

    Stern has done some stupid shit lately. None of these guys in the pinball world should be considered marketing geniuses, Stern and Jack can't seem to get out of their own way most of the time.

    The used car salesman approach is pathetic and insulting. And the whole distributor secrecy price fixing scheme is off putting as well.

    Knowing all of that, I'm keeping an open mind because I love my last several Stern pins. They have made some great pinball recently.

    I'll be interested in the Ka Pow speciality pins in the future and pins that have Lyman involved and maybe Dwight.

    #71 2 years ago

    I'm out too, but am still looking to buy games. The biggest issue I have right now is where. Spooky, Heighway, and the used market all have their appeals.

    #72 2 years ago

    I decided to wait for secondary market machines and not buy another nib. I could go on and on why that is the right move for me, but you already know most of the reasons. My GOT is of lesser quality than my other machines, Kiss left for dead, quality issues, playfield issues, attitude issues, pricing, and their stupid fucking party was the last straw for me.

    PS...all I see on facebook is their crowd funding a coffee table book? WTF

    -11
    #73 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I just don't trust Stern's motives right now. 30 SLEs were once a "thank you" and an appreciation gesture but they're now 80 "don't leave a penny behind" tactic. Appreciation was short lived in the face of a few more dollars.

    So you would rather a $12,500 about a phone

    #74 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Stern and Jack can't seem to get out of their own way most of the time.

    #75 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do you think they could give away 30 pinball machines and stay in business?
    Seems unlikely.
    Times may be good compared to 2009 but I have a hard time Stern Pinball Inc. is just minting millionaires left and right.

    Easily

    18
    #76 2 years ago

    OP, that part is very true ''Stern, you may have kept the lights on in the manufacturing plant, but we were the ones that paid for the electric bill...''

    stern doesn't care, the new partner doesn't care (not even a pinhead) as a business i can understand that they have to make money but milking everything they can out of our pockets is not the way to go.

    now stern's asking a lot more than what the game is worth. new lcd... bump the price (even if it cost less than a dmd) like it's a privilege for us to have one, sorry stern you are late, something you should have done years ago.

    a simple $5 toy (exactly the same on amazon) removed from the premium to justify the price/difference of the LE and SLE, looks like pro vs premium/le.

    stern is 30 years old now, yep, how to celebrate that? easy charge for a party with no foods or drinks no pinballs to play and nothing much to see (ed was the only great thing) not even worth going.
    and let's make a pinball machine (Limited edition, lol) yep, by removing the pro let's make a super LE and ask more without really adding anything more, that way people will think it's super, sparkles on the trims, cards and a plaque, signed... let's ask 5K more.
    pro becomes premium, premium is le...
    any company will have done the opposite, celebrating by giving back to the customers.

    and JJP is right behind, again. ''we started the bumping price thing because, because... i said so'' and stern joined the wagon.
    what a missed opportunity for JJP and others, give a great price on a standard game and you will win the crowd, it's that simple, be competitive. pro 5k max, premium 6k max, LE 7k max and you'll be the only one. a few trims and a signed plaque (what, a big $200 at most) doesn't justify 3-5k more, it's just ridiculous, sadly people are still lining up, more money than common sense ''i gotta have the latest toy''.

    if stern (or JJP for that matter) comes back down in price like, it should, better service and better QC they will destroy any competition, easily and make more money in the long run by selling in quantities. but no, bumping the price on every new game for no real reason and cutting on every change they have. hell, price should be lower with the new system, a lot lower.

    it's all about bengamins and greed.

    #77 2 years ago
    Quoted from Russell:

    Is Pulp Fiction really a rumor? I haven't heard that one. Pretty interesting, but that really sounds like more a Dutch Pinball theme.

    It's a rumor alright, along with the comeback of another reputable (and often overlooked) W/B designer.

    #78 2 years ago
    Quoted from Collin:

    I feel you guys who have stopped buying Sterns.
    I was getting ready to buy my first NIB, but they jacked the prices up too fast. I just can't stomach $5500, which is what the next Pro will allegedly cost. I was in for $4200-4500, but that's it. I'm the new blood they should be courting, and they've lost me.

    Well, you can choose from the many options for brand new games that are cheaper than that. Provided you find a time machine.

    At $5500 still the cheapest NIB games on the market, by far.

    #79 2 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    He's extremely dismissive at the notion of ANY serious competition

    Certainly the competition to date has not been huge, but no matter what they say their market share has been reduced. Stern had 100% of the NIB market, and now others have sold NIB machines, so by definition they no longer have 100% of the market. However, that lower share is of a market that has been expanding, and likely has expanded enough that they have not seen a reduction in their sales, and with price changes, likely increased revenue, but that does not mean they have not lost share. As the market growth slows and the competitors get up to speed, that loss of market share is going to grow and will hit the bottom line (although if they keep jacking up prices, that also minimizes that impact).

    JJP has shipped quite a few machines and is now on their third title.
    spooky is now getting ready to build/ship their third game, even if it s a 'speciality/custom' item
    Dutch Pinball has been shipping machines
    Heighway is shipping machines and getting closer to they first licensed theme game getting to production.
    Multimorphic has shown production samples and will soon be shipping machines with multiple games
    Homepin is showing progress towards their first pin, but still seems a little ways off, and really see minimal sales in the US.
    American Pinball has suddenly shown up on the scene, apparently manufacturing Magic Girl for Zidware/Jpop, but also working on their own pin (Houdini)
    Chicago Gaming has shipped MMr and will likely be announcing another game soon.

    Certainly possible if not likely that some of these companies fail, however, it is clear that competition is here, and it will impact Stern in one way or another, and only time will tell how they respond.

    #80 2 years ago
    Quoted from foureyedcharlie:

    ....
    PS...all I see on facebook is their crowd funding a coffee table book? WTF

    that's another joke, if stern agreed to have a book, fund the damn thing and pay the people who's gonna do it,
    they probably going to make money out of it anyway.

    #81 2 years ago
    Quoted from rubberducks:

    Old BW and new JJP games feel much more smooth than new Sterns, in my view. It seems like without massive tinkering on most of their new machines, you'll suffer an awful lot of bad feeds, balls getting stuck, catching air, rejects, targets not working etc etc. Some of their themes and layouts might be really fun, but Stern feel like the Data East to Bally Williams (or JJP today).

    Nah, Stern pins are the current top of the heap for gameplay anyway, I like the 90's DMD's too but they are pretty easy for the most part and while JJP has excellent quality I haven't found either of there pins very fun JMO mind you so take it easy, Stern even with the quality issues and "build quality" which I've found to be just fine and dandy is still king.

    #82 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I'm done with Stern too!
    I won't ever buy another NIB Stern pin. Well, not after my BM66 Premium anyway.
    Well, maybe after Star Wars. Yeah, that's it, Star Wars will be the last NIB Stern I ever buy dammit!
    Unless the rumors of Pulp Fiction are true. I'd have to buy that one NIB too.
    BUT THAT'S IT FOR ME!!! YOU HEAR THAT STERN!!?!?! I'LL SHOW YOU!!!

    And you will certainly like many others NEVER EVER buy Iron Maiden LE

    14
    #83 2 years ago
    Quoted from aztarac:

    Jared: It's gonna be EPIC I tell ya, EPIC!!! Please make sure and put EPIC!! on all of Stern's marketing info. EPIC!!

    After Stern's 30th Anniversary Party, there was a new urban dictionary term added as a sentence adjective.
    The term is "Stern Epic".

    stern epic/stern ˈepik/adjective/noun:
    "An ambiguous advertising descriptive term designed to generate substantial amounts of additional income from non-informed consumers for a separate product, event, or service without possibility of refund prior to actual reveal that has has the same quality of other nearly identical items in the same category. The term may further be identified for confirmation when a product pre-production number is increased without justification prior to actual construction (before or after a reveal) and/or requirement for a buyer to apply for purchase and provide free marketing information to a company for future sales." Not to be confused with the term, "Epic Fail", which is a pure noun, and antonym. A "Stern Epic", is generally classified as an initial success, until initial consumers become self-aware based on information of repeated industry attempts at the same process.

    (See Stern BM66 SLE pinball machine for a qualifying example of this definition)

    #84 2 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    After Stern's 30th Anniversary Party, there was a new urban dictionary term added as a sentence adjective.
    The term is "Stern Epic".
    "An ambiguous advertising term used to generate substantial amounts of additional income from non-informed consumers for a separate product, event, or service without possibility of refund that has has the same quality of other nearly identical items."

    Well played! Dare I say......epic!

    12
    #85 2 years ago

    I agree with much of what was said in the article, but my experiences do not jive with this statement ...

    "To compound issues, Stern's attitude towards customer complaints is very abrasive. To engage with Stern about issues is almost like going to battle."

    I have called up and talked to Chas many times for one reason or another, and every single time he has been extremely friendly and helpful. I've had numerous broken parts shipped out to me for free over the years, and some of them weren't even covered under warranty.

    #86 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    It's a rumor alright, along with the comeback of another reputable (and often overlooked) W/B designer.

    Yep!

    #87 2 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I agree with much of what was said in the article, but my experiences do not jive with this statement ...
    "To compound issues, Stern's attitude towards customer complaints is very abrasive. To engage with Stern about issues is almost like going to battle."
    I have called up and talked to Chas many times for one reason or another, and every single time he has been extremely friendly and helpful. I've had numerous broken parts shipped out to me for free over the years, and some of them weren't even covered under warranty.

    I have talked to Chas a few times and like you said he is more than helpful and will ship parts out no problem.

    #88 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    It's a rumor alright, along with the comeback of another reputable (and often overlooked) W/B designer.

    Mark Ritchie or Barry Oursler are the only two that come to mind not really overlooked though? A Brian Eddy table would sell like hot cakes, although I could see Jack throwing some stupid money to get him out of retirement.

    I have always stuck to the belief that Sterns biggest issue is that they consider themselves a "manufacturer" not a pinball company. That is why their machine have always lacked that special B/W feeling.

    If Stern keeping crank out another Metallic quality pro with Aerosmith, then follow up with a quality pro Star Wars, both at MSRP $6000, then I can tell you a lot of people will still be going NIB. I think you will see the gap between Pro and Premium climb a little higher to a full 2k, well LE will be the norm at $9995 maybe with added topper as standard.

    #89 2 years ago

    Well on the positive I bought a NIB Met pro late this summer. Great game and no quality control issues. I would say I'm very happy and so are guests that get to play it.

    However the SMVE has some ghosting on inserts so that's a negative NIB experience. I'm on hold anyway, I like what I have (other than the ghosting) and no room for expansion, unless my wife leaves me. Lol.

    #90 2 years ago

    My first nib was st pro. Probably my last nib, I feel similar to many in here.. the games are fun, I have a hard time justifying the price when you keep getting less for more.

    11
    #91 2 years ago
    Quoted from dtowndobe:

    If the next biggie from them is Star Wars, I bet they'll sell out again and very quickly.
    I'm not terribly thrilled with the prices of NIB and recent manufacturing/QC issues scare me, but I'd probably have to find a way to get certain NIB themes. Stern Star Wars and JJP#3 are at the top for me.

    I don't quite understand the "insta-buy" attitude for a new Star Wars pin.

    It would be more understandable if there weren't three Star Wars pins already out. Of which none are considered great, so what makes people think the next one is going to be something amazing?

    It's not like the Star Wars movies since the last pin was made were so good that they're crying out for another pinball version.

    #93 2 years ago

    There is so much logic in the thread....
    ...only to be wiped out by the hype of future titles.
    I'm with you guys; I'm no longer in the market. Stern Star Trek LE was my one and only Stern NIB purchase.
    Unless they come out with a pre-2014 LE price on rumored Star Wars; I'm out.

    Multimorphic gets my future NIB dollars.

    11
    #94 2 years ago

    I was gonna buy a GB Premium NIB.

    Like for reals.

    Instead I bought a used TWD last week, & maybe a used MET next week, from a guy clearing space/funds for Alien.

    My wife & daughter are very disappointed we aren't getting a GB but that title is a mess right now & since Stern didn't reply to my PF inquiry I cant give them my money.

    I'm just one dude tho. I cant compete with the BM66 folks who just dont give AF about quality, pricing, code & respect.

    #95 2 years ago

    I don't buy a lot of nib games. But this year I got 4 NIB games and after the problems I've had with GB and the price hike I'm out from buying any new titles. My plan was to buy 3 NIB games for the next several years, but those planes are now history.

    #96 2 years ago

    So I largely agree with the OP. Is this going to get me snubbed from any super duper mega LE pinball releases?

    #97 2 years ago
    Quoted from indybru:

    Well on the positive I bought a NIB Met pro late this summer. Great game and no quality control issues. I would say I'm very happy and so are guests that get to play it.

    Not the same experience. August 2016 NIB MET Pro purchase. Ghosting on inserts and clear-coat coming up near the trough entrance. Agreed MET still fun, but dealing with Stern is frustrating.

    #98 2 years ago
    Quoted from Hougie:

    So I largely agree with the OP. Is this going to get me snubbed from any super duper mega LE pinball releases?

    No worries. Wave your $20k in front of Stern and I'm sure they'll find a way to get you a SDMLE.

    #99 2 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I agree with much of what was said in the article, but my experiences do not jive with this statement ...
    "To compound issues, Stern's attitude towards customer complaints is very abrasive. To engage with Stern about issues is almost like going to battle."
    I have called up and talked to Chas many times for one reason or another, and every single time he has been extremely friendly and helpful. I've had many broken parts shipped out to me for free over the years, and some of them weren't even covered under warranty.

    And the Lesson learned is... it doesn't matter how many times you do it right... only how many times you do it wrong.

    Bad Customer Service can sink any business when it becomes a tolerated, standard practice within the business.

    The sad thing is Stern could have offered up a 'boutique' type of high-end product and service and people would have probably paid in spades since clearly none of the distributors can do it at scale. Instead Stern went with the boutique scheme, while forgetting the product and Customer Service angles... just pissing everyone off.

    If you offer premium products, treat your customers as a premium... people will pay a premium once you've established your credibility and start to build champions. When you stop connecting with your customers and hide from them... you start the path that only separates you more.

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