basically nothing right now except flash based on # of FIRE completes I think. Lyman described they thought about doing modes where you had to shoot the canon at different styles of cycling lights, or other gimmicks to try to alter loading the canon, etc and they chose not to push for it. It wasn't clear why he didn't return to it in later efforts. He made it sound like they play tested it, or just decided the ideas were lame let it go. There didn't seem to be much interest in pursuing it.. so I took it as he just tabled it as not great ideas.

Please excuse my ignorance yet again, but was AC/DC originally shipped without Lyman's input, or was it a bare-bones Lyman code that he finished later?

"We" are all thankful, dude. Again: 10/10. Donated much cash to POP via the Thundertilt version at Arcade Expo 2.0. Made some San Diego operators really happy with my coin drops (shout out to Hamiltons Bar, how I miss that place). But I can still love the game and can be baffled by some of the design decisions. How come you don't get so bent out of shape about my criticism of The Hobbit?

...Inserts that don't have anything to do with the gameplay.

BTW I'm pretty sure I acknowledged that the inserts do indeed do SOMETHING. But they don't relate to what is printed on the inserts.

That's also not true. They do something that is related to their printed content. It's something like this. Light fire enough times to light the canon, the top insert is flashing. If you make the canon jackpot shot, the insert is solid. Repeat for the other two. I could be a little off; this isn't a key feature of the game so I don't pay too much attention. Sure it's not very exciting, but it is something that is implemented and relative to the printed text on the insert. Again, Lyman decided to do other better things like create VIP pass instead of spend time on Steve's inserts.

Perhaps I don't follow you around and read all your posts, so maybe I just don't know what your problems are with Hobbit. Or maybe your problems with Hobbit are valid. Who knows? Hobbit's not a perfect game. Feel free to link me to these posts of yours so that I can "follow up" for you.

I was noticing the same thing on my RBION. It's been played, but still looks like a brand new machine.

This and the fact that they're HUGE in comparison to their function and front and center. You'd expect them to be an integral part of the rules, kind of like the ones on MET.

That's perfectly communicated by "Fodder", "Volley" and "Chaos"

Well, it's just that I mentioned The Hobbit in with the post that I mentioned AC/DC, and you've been riding my ass consistently since then about the one and not the other so I was just curious. BTW, as good as AC/DC is? The Hobbit is better. Pure facts. Please to do "follow up" with me about it.

The Cannon... isn't a key feature... of AC/DC?

Perhaps you and I are playing two different games.

If ACDC's rules sucked, maybe it'd be worth discussing ...but it's got one of the best rules in pinball that can be enjoyed in various ways by various players. But ACDC's rules don't suck...so...yeah.

Just backed out on a gb premium I had paid in full for monthssssss. Done with stern as a hobbiest.

Good move.

How many times can one say "it's not that the game sucks, but what's with the meaningless inserts"? This is ridiculous.

Why back out of a paid in full GB?

QC?
Communication?
Pricing?
DMD?
Code?
Expo party?
Pinball News?
BM66 BS?
Ghosting?

That's pretty much why I did the same thing. Plus forcing myself to try to enjoy the game and that just not happening.

If you want the topic to die, just stop responding.

I have around 30 games up and playing in my room. About a dozen times in the past I was interested in a Stern game but changed my mind the moment I touched it, they just feel so different then the other companies. I do have a WOZ and am overly impressed by its quality especially when I try and move it. That said, Stern is selling to the consumer market, they are games made to be bright and shiny and get a profit for the operators, the collectors are just a bonus (even if they supported the company in dire times). If the newer companies with better quality, better ideas and more enthusiasm continue to grow.. they would be able to pay the designers and programmers comparable salaries and would surely win them over. The designers and programmers need an income and surely tolerate poor quality and production to insure there finances. The creative people at Stern do their jobs with passion and surely would prefer to work with companies who produce their games with passion too.

If you want trolls to die, put them on ignore. Not even sure who you're talking to, but it looks like they're as annoying to you as they were to me. Simple click, they don't exist.

image (resized).jpeg

Yup, they do feel different. However, they are also very fun. The different feel just fades into the background and they just end up feeling like a Stern game. The reason I think you might want to make the leap over that hurdle is that they have made some great games over last few years. LOTR is just a gem, with so much to offer the player. Tron? Amazing. For a while they were really hitting the nail on the head. It would be a shame to miss games like that just because they feel different.

Some are fun, but most of the recent releases are built like sh*t.

I have to say that Stern must really be peaved that they have to see this thread on fire everyday they tune in to pinside, but yet they are un able to delete comments and ban the users, lol.

Hopefully they will take some real action and wake up that when a thread bashing your increasingly poor QC'd product is #1 on the largest pinball forum for a week that you had better start making changes.

It's a good thing.

Everyone taking the time to research the purchase of their first pinball machine will be able to easily find this thread.

I guess I would like to have an actual discussion about it rather than the Stern Army constantly repeating their talking points. Ain't gonna get that here though!

BTW it pleases me to no end that one of this forums' biggest know it all trolls has me on ignore. Perfect example of someone who gleefully dishes it out but can't take it themselves.

I think we need more forum topics complaining about stern. There are clearly not enough of them.

I have a Premium on order and like to know why you cancelled as I'm on the Fence. Is it the gapped flippers? Outlanes? The super Bright Blinding Lights?

Also, if I'm correct Churchill is making the playfields for Stern again so hopefully that remedies the ghosting and chipping issues.

Just wish the flippers were closer together and not sloped/angled down from the inlane.

I would have dropped GB if Dialed in was at 7500, especially being that I bought WOZ and HB.

All input would be greatly appreciated

Buy the Ghostbusters. It's a really great game. You can easily change the "flipper angle" to any position you'd like. The outlanes can be closed tighter too.

There were playfield issues on games, sure, but this is being overblown in my opinion.

The angle is not the issue. The issue for many is the gap. Pretty sure this is 1/8 wider than any John T gap prior. I was told by a Stern employee that the gap on GB was a mess up in the CAD file that did not get caight till games were already in production.

I am yet to see a single GB pro or premium without pf issues after 500 plays. I stopped counting after 10 pros and 4 premiums all with insert ghosting. I dont think it is overblown. If anything, I think most home owners dont play their games much and fewer actually pay attention to clear starting to ghost (which will eventually turn into chipping clear)

If you don't like the flipper gap on GB then you will most likely not like one of DI coolest features. During multi ball the game attack and causes premature ball loss due to flipper control loss

??? I love DI. Shoot great and GREAT code even at the starting stage I played at Expo. If you did not realize, the flippers puposefully 'flutter' when you are hit. You also can attack back and prevent the laser beams from coming down to attack your flippers. It is genious and the best game/player interaction I have seen to date.

That is totally different than a messed up flipper gap. Worth note that I am completely fine with the GB gap and find it challenging and fun.

lol

So we collectors, distributors, vendors and home owners spent money on the following machines where code has not been completed:

Kiss
Game of Thrones
Ghost Busters
Star Trek
Wheel of Fortune

Am I missing anything else here?

So if was a mess up, then buying the carrot flippers should bring it back to the gap of a Congo or Creature? I play Congo and don't notice the gap.

Also, sounds like the center post is a must.

I think DI would be great, but that price point just took the fun out of everything. JJP should have been giving people who bought games from them a discount for being loyal, but I guess that was thrown out the window.

I have the center post kit, haven't installed it yet. I honestly don't feel that the center drains are all that much worse than my other pins. Maybe it is because I suck at saving center drains altogether

that is what I was told Stern has done to the play test game they have at the factory.

why would they do that?

I guess to correct the gap and make it more fun for the people that play it (employees and potential customers on a factory tour) I presume.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. That was why I listed games like LOTR and Tron. Stern did some fantastic games back in their heyday. (yes, I am saying that like their heyday is over. I feel like it is. It is just my opinion.)

All negativity aside; Stern puts out a great <$5k pin with their pro models. Hopefully, the price point for pro models stays at or under $5k shipped, however.

But they need to step up their game if they want to continue to produce higher end quality pins, especially in the code dept. Bringing on dwight was a very good move for them, and his code releases for GOT and GB have been stellar! but as we've seen, that follow up code and final polish is still a thorn in sterns side. They could really benefit from hiring on a player/programmer who comes in behind and cleans up the missing pieces.

Seems like a no brainer. $$ well spent. The amount of angst and agony that is caused by code deficiencies and delays is terrible.

If the consumer had confidence that code was going to be eventually completed, with a stated timeline, it would go a LONG ways towards selling more pins.

I really don't get what they are thinking. A lot of people like myself won't even consider a Stern pin that isn't coded by Lyman and/or maybe Dwight now.

The HUO market is only going to be a bigger slice of the pie for them as location dies off and overseas sales drop due to pricing.

There can be seismic shifts in pinball over 2017.

Thanks SKB & KPG!

Donation to Pinside en route for your assistance

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twd-skillshot#post-3440522

I am a pretty rubbish player but the gap in the middle of GB really doesn't seem that bad at all.

Balls bouncing over the metal in sidelines IS annoying!

Yes, please add LOTR to your list, because v10.02 is still chock full of typos like "multipiers"!

LOTR_Multipiers (resized).jpg

Come on, Stern...

#wheresthecode

IMG_2499 (resized).JPG

We want code, we want code, we want code!

Kiss
Game of Thrones
Ghost Busters
Star Trek
Wheel of Fortune
LOTR
Xmen

Can someone tell me what other machines are not complete?

we were prmoised 1 more polish for TWD, so it is technically incomplete.

I think it is finew, but would liek to see the final polishing we were told would come.

Pretty sure WWE was also promised another rework.

Wasn't WWE promised some sort of add on lighting mod and code overhaul by Gary Stern himself? Did that ever eventuate?

Correct. You can see the carrot flippers in one of the Stern factory tour videos on their GB.

Awesome man!!

Yeah I remember that. Not a ringing endorsement of the game when the factory display model has big 'ole carrot flippers.